Shadowfen node farming wars

FluffWit

I'll try for this lead in a couple of months. I'm planning another Master Angler run anyway and Shadoefen tends to be brutal for that so I'm sure I'll be there at least 10-12 hours fishing.

xeNNNNN

furiouslog wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

Wait, the lead comes from water plants, right? Isn't Shadowfen like...90% swamp? Wouldn't MOST of the plants in Shadowfen be water plants? What am I missing here?

And, of course, there are going to be some unfortunates who will potentially spend well over 20 hours sitting and staring at a plant before getting rewarded, some of whom I have seen in zone chat, and are quite clearly clinically depressed.

If what i've read in chat is to be believed there are indeed people who have sat there for 20ish hours trying to get it. I want to call ZoS irresponsible for encouraging this behaviour but I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that people are responsible for their own actions even those who are making questionable mental health decisions regarding play time. It just ain't healthy.

And as someone did point out that my first suggestion would encourage bots, I think just moving the drop to something else less foolish would just be better for everyone involved. I mean gratz to everyone who got it after sitting there for hours but it would be just better for everyone if it was moved.

it is currently 2:51 am on EU (GMT+0) and there are still at least 50-70 people in shadowfen.

furiouslog

xeNNNNN wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

Wait, the lead comes from water plants, right? Isn't Shadowfen like...90% swamp? Wouldn't MOST of the plants in Shadowfen be water plants? What am I missing here?

And, of course, there are going to be some unfortunates who will potentially spend well over 20 hours sitting and staring at a plant before getting rewarded, some of whom I have seen in zone chat, and are quite clearly clinically depressed.

If what i've read in chat is to be believed there are indeed people who have sat there for 20ish hours trying to get it. I want to call ZoS irresponsible for encouraging this behaviour but I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that people are responsible for their own actions even those who are making questionable mental health decisions regarding play time. It just ain't healthy.

And as someone did point out that my first suggestion would encourage bots, I think just moving the drop to something else less foolish would just be better for everyone involved. I mean gratz to everyone who got it after sitting there for hours but it would be just better for everyone if it was moved.

it is currently 2:51 am on EU (GMT+0) and there are still at least 50-70 people in shadowfen.

So a lot of endgame guilds are now pretty much requiring this for the trials they are running based on parses and such, and an analysis of how the stacks trigger. If someone has already put 5000+ hours into this game, and if they want to keep doing the things that they already do by throwing in another 20+ hours (as mind-bendingly frustrating and boring as those hours are), the lead is basically a gate to keep playing the game. So I get that decision, it's just a terrible one to have to make in the first place.

As far as solutions, the simplest would be to adjust the drop rate to something more like 1 in 10. That would solve it. But really, the best thing to have done is not design it like this in the first place. The math of it is insane.

Wolf_Eye

furiouslog wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

Wait, the lead comes from water plants, right? Isn't Shadowfen like...90% swamp? Wouldn't MOST of the plants in Shadowfen be water plants? What am I missing here?

And, of course, there are going to be some unfortunates who will potentially spend well over 20 hours sitting and staring at a plant before getting rewarded, some of whom I have seen in zone chat, and are quite clearly clinically depressed.

If what i've read in chat is to be believed there are indeed people who have sat there for 20ish hours trying to get it. I want to call ZoS irresponsible for encouraging this behaviour but I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that people are responsible for their own actions even those who are making questionable mental health decisions regarding play time. It just ain't healthy.

And as someone did point out that my first suggestion would encourage bots, I think just moving the drop to something else less foolish would just be better for everyone involved. I mean gratz to everyone who got it after sitting there for hours but it would be just better for everyone if it was moved.

it is currently 2:51 am on EU (GMT+0) and there are still at least 50-70 people in shadowfen.

So a lot of endgame guilds are now pretty much requiring this for the trials they are running based on parses and such, and an analysis of how the stacks trigger. If someone has already put 5000+ hours into this game, and if they want to keep doing the things that they already do by throwing in another 20+ hours (as mind-bendingly frustrating and boring as those hours are), the lead is basically a gate to keep playing the game. So I get that decision, it's just a terrible one to have to make in the first place.

As far as solutions, the simplest would be to adjust the drop rate to something more like 1 in 10. That would solve it. But really, the best thing to have done is not design it like this in the first place. The math of it is insane.

But isn't that the fault of these trial guilds? Endgame guilds DEMANDING that their members have something within a week of release sounds like a toxic relationship. By no means am I defending ZOS' decision of where to put the lead (I think it was silly to put it in a resource. They should have put it as a drop from the final boss in a 4-man dungeon), but in the same token there is something incredibly unhealthy about guilds like these....

xeNNNNN

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

Wait, the lead comes from water plants, right? Isn't Shadowfen like...90% swamp? Wouldn't MOST of the plants in Shadowfen be water plants? What am I missing here?

And, of course, there are going to be some unfortunates who will potentially spend well over 20 hours sitting and staring at a plant before getting rewarded, some of whom I have seen in zone chat, and are quite clearly clinically depressed.

If what i've read in chat is to be believed there are indeed people who have sat there for 20ish hours trying to get it. I want to call ZoS irresponsible for encouraging this behaviour but I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that people are responsible for their own actions even those who are making questionable mental health decisions regarding play time. It just ain't healthy.

And as someone did point out that my first suggestion would encourage bots, I think just moving the drop to something else less foolish would just be better for everyone involved. I mean gratz to everyone who got it after sitting there for hours but it would be just better for everyone if it was moved.

it is currently 2:51 am on EU (GMT+0) and there are still at least 50-70 people in shadowfen.

So a lot of endgame guilds are now pretty much requiring this for the trials they are running based on parses and such, and an analysis of how the stacks trigger. If someone has already put 5000+ hours into this game, and if they want to keep doing the things that they already do by throwing in another 20+ hours (as mind-bendingly frustrating and boring as those hours are), the lead is basically a gate to keep playing the game. So I get that decision, it's just a terrible one to have to make in the first place.

As far as solutions, the simplest would be to adjust the drop rate to something more like 1 in 10. That would solve it. But really, the best thing to have done is not design it like this in the first place. The math of it is insane.

But isn't that the fault of these trial guilds? Endgame guilds DEMANDING that their members have something within a week of release sounds like a toxic relationship. By no means am I defending ZOS' decision of where to put the lead (I think it was silly to put it in a resource. They should have put it as a drop from the final boss in a 4-man dungeon), but in the same token there is something incredibly unhealthy about guilds like these....

Honestly at this point there is a bit of blame to go around really. ZoS for the implementation. Raid groups for the obscene standards and people for going along with it.

Not sure its really worth putting any blame out there though as long as it gets changed, soon and that this never happens again.

xeNNNNN

furiouslog wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

Wait, the lead comes from water plants, right? Isn't Shadowfen like...90% swamp? Wouldn't MOST of the plants in Shadowfen be water plants? What am I missing here?

And, of course, there are going to be some unfortunates who will potentially spend well over 20 hours sitting and staring at a plant before getting rewarded, some of whom I have seen in zone chat, and are quite clearly clinically depressed.

If what i've read in chat is to be believed there are indeed people who have sat there for 20ish hours trying to get it. I want to call ZoS irresponsible for encouraging this behaviour but I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that people are responsible for their own actions even those who are making questionable mental health decisions regarding play time. It just ain't healthy.

And as someone did point out that my first suggestion would encourage bots, I think just moving the drop to something else less foolish would just be better for everyone involved. I mean gratz to everyone who got it after sitting there for hours but it would be just better for everyone if it was moved.

it is currently 2:51 am on EU (GMT+0) and there are still at least 50-70 people in shadowfen.

So a lot of endgame guilds are now pretty much requiring this for the trials they are running based on parses and such, and an analysis of how the stacks trigger. If someone has already put 5000+ hours into this game, and if they want to keep doing the things that they already do by throwing in another 20+ hours (as mind-bendingly frustrating and boring as those hours are), the lead is basically a gate to keep playing the game. So I get that decision, it's just a terrible one to have to make in the first place.

As far as solutions, the simplest would be to adjust the drop rate to something more like 1 in 10. That would solve it. But really, the best thing to have done is not design it like this in the first place. The math of it is insane.

Thats actually not a bad idea at all, I'll add that to the "suggestions" in the OP and yes after reading your post I am quite honestly further stunned as to how this was even allowed to get off the PTS if it was like this during testing.

CP5

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

Wait, the lead comes from water plants, right? Isn't Shadowfen like...90% swamp? Wouldn't MOST of the plants in Shadowfen be water plants? What am I missing here?

And, of course, there are going to be some unfortunates who will potentially spend well over 20 hours sitting and staring at a plant before getting rewarded, some of whom I have seen in zone chat, and are quite clearly clinically depressed.

If what i've read in chat is to be believed there are indeed people who have sat there for 20ish hours trying to get it. I want to call ZoS irresponsible for encouraging this behaviour but I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that people are responsible for their own actions even those who are making questionable mental health decisions regarding play time. It just ain't healthy.

And as someone did point out that my first suggestion would encourage bots, I think just moving the drop to something else less foolish would just be better for everyone involved. I mean gratz to everyone who got it after sitting there for hours but it would be just better for everyone if it was moved.

it is currently 2:51 am on EU (GMT+0) and there are still at least 50-70 people in shadowfen.

So a lot of endgame guilds are now pretty much requiring this for the trials they are running based on parses and such, and an analysis of how the stacks trigger. If someone has already put 5000+ hours into this game, and if they want to keep doing the things that they already do by throwing in another 20+ hours (as mind-bendingly frustrating and boring as those hours are), the lead is basically a gate to keep playing the game. So I get that decision, it's just a terrible one to have to make in the first place.

As far as solutions, the simplest would be to adjust the drop rate to something more like 1 in 10. That would solve it. But really, the best thing to have done is not design it like this in the first place. The math of it is insane.

But isn't that the fault of these trial guilds? Endgame guilds DEMANDING that their members have something within a week of release sounds like a toxic relationship. By no means am I defending ZOS' decision of where to put the lead (I think it was silly to put it in a resource. They should have put it as a drop from the final boss in a 4-man dungeon), but in the same token there is something incredibly unhealthy about guilds like these....

More like end game dps don't like doing things below what they know they can achieve, and when the patch hit ZOS implemented this set which now greatly outpaces their old monster sets, and since they don't want to do raids in a sub-par manner they feel obligated, for themselves or their groups, to get the gear they need to do so. It's a time thing, and why would they spend time in trials doing worse than they could otherwise be, rather than everyone blaming some invisible raid lead waving their fingers at them.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

I pre-ordered Greymoor and still have no mythics.

nryerson1025

There are farmers within short range of every node in Shadowfen. A lot of these players actually believe they have ownership of these nodes within range and if anyone else were to take it, it would be stealing. Some become toxic in zone and or local chat. There have even been a few instances of individuals soliciting the sale of a certain area containing x amount of nodes.

If this gameplay is to accepted in ESO, I think the necessary action is to allow flagging and pvp in the zone. Faction less that is. If we're to make claims of land on a mega server, one should in my opinion have the right to defend it or conquer it.

But in reality, this is just a poorly planned drop in ESO that has degraded the quality of the community

Lerozain

The apologists who run to the defense of this lead utterly baffle me. What is engaging about this? or enjoyable? or profitable? or interesting? Nothing. It's mind-numbing and sucks all the excitement out of the chapter for anyone who's interested in obtaining the Kilt.

LadyNalcarya

Lerozain wrote: »

The apologists who run to the defense of this lead utterly baffle me. What is engaging about this? or enjoyable? or profitable? or interesting? Nothing. It's mind-numbing and sucks all the excitement out of the chapter for anyone who's interested in obtaining the Kilt.

Usually it's just "I don't care about this item you shouldn't too" or "I hAtE eLiTiStS aNd LoVe SeEiNg tHeM sUfFeR" kind of thing.
But tbh it shouldn't matter. Having to camp a node for 20 hours shouldn't be a thing. It's not even "gameplay" it's a waste of time. At least in dungeons you get exp and loot for sticker book, but this is just pointless.

xeNNNNN

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

I pre-ordered Greymoor and still have no mythics.

This would be me if I hadn't run into a mental block of things I enjoy doing haha

AndyMac

The Shadowfen lead is a woeful piece of game design. It’s as if ZOS took all the feedback about the Badman Hollows Pale Order lead and concluded they needed to implement something far worse.

I was hearing about DAYS spent in Shadowfen - very unhappy players abounded.

I get that there has to be grind, but if mythics are going to be the new monster sets - and that seems to be the direction we’re going - there should be at least some level of entertainment involved.

We did pay for this- after all.

Onyx_Werewolf_Gnome

AndyMac wrote: »

The Shadowfen lead is a woeful piece of game design. It’s as if ZOS took all the feedback about the Badman Hollows Pale Order lead and concluded they needed to implement something far worse.

<snip>

Could not have put it better, & the sad thing is I thing Blackwood is lovely & they have really turned things sour by shipping us all to Shadowfen to stand on a bally nirnroot/waterhyacinth/water node

Lady_Galadhiel

It is sad to see that there are more players in shadowfen than in Blackwood at the moment.
Each time I go to Blackwood the most people I see are doing the companion quests and than leave the zone.
I miss the good old Elsweyr days where mythical items did not exist.

Even till now the only mythical item I use the most is the wild hunt ring and that was easy to get,took less than 2 hours to get all leads.

Casdha

They could just open it up to Grahtwood and Stormhaven zone nodes. I believe those are the equivalent zones in the other alliances. (if it isn't that way already)

Personally I have not started looking for the new leads yet, so I have not been keeping up.

I do hope this is where everyone is at though, I was in one of the new public dungeons last night (1st Friday night after launch) and I was practically the only one in there,,, had me a little bit worried at the lack of players. Side note I did get a gold lead in there about the 3rd non trash kill.

LadyNalcarya

Casdha wrote: »

They could just open it up to Grahtwood and Stormhaven zone nodes. I believe those are the equivalent zones in the other alliances. (if it isn't that way already)

Personally I have not started looking for the new leads yet, so I have not been keeping up.

I do hope this is where everyone is at though, I was in one of the new public dungeons last night (1st Friday night after launch) and I was practically the only one in there,,, had me a little bit worried at the lack of players. Side note I did get a gold lead in there about the 3rd non trash kill.

Imo they should just bump the drop rate to 10% or something, so that people would be able to get it while playing the game normally, like most other leads.

bmnoble

Its poor design as far as I am concerned they keep doing this kinda of stuff with leads, they bottleneck the location it drops from.

Last one I remember was one of the leads in the Alikir desert that drops from one delve boss, might be a pale order lead piece can't remember, had entire groups there circling the boss spawn location constantly putting down ground based AOE's hoping to get a hit in for the lead.

That was months ago I go through that same delve on multiple alts recently and there is still a group circling the boss each time I go in there not as big as launch but still 10 or so people at a time.

Bad mans hollow was another one people camping there own little corners for ads to spawn and kill for leads, still hearing people struggling to get the lead.

Who knows how long Shadowfen is going to be full of players hoping to get the lead.

PrinceDamien

After reading this post I had to go and see it for myself and I had a great time in the zone chat.
there were ofc some salt in there but far less than I had expected.
Most of the time people got together and just meme'd and being silly.
Might've been their sanity dwindling but hey, it was a lot of fun.

I didn't plan on doing any nodes myself but ended up doing it because why not, I was there and having fun in the chat meanwhile.
I didn't time it, but think I got the lead in between 1-2 hours.. 3 top and I had a good time.
But I think it might've been because I had a different mindset and wasn't stressed over getting the lead asap.

SeaGtGruff

I decided to go to Shadowfen yesterday to see what all the fuss was about.

No one was farming other nodes, so I ran all over Shadowfen farming lumber, silk, ore, platinum, plants, and treasure chests like crazy while also looking for any water nodes, water hyacinth, and nirnroot.

It was very rare to come across any of those three that weren't being camped, but every so often I did see one. If I found one, I'd open it to see what was inside, then move on without harvesting it.

After a couple of hours of circling the entire zone, a pair of players invited me to join their group, so the three of us went back and forth between two water node spawn points that also had a water hyacinth spawn point between them. After about half an hour of racing back and forth between the nodes whenever they spawned, I managed to find the lead. I'd guess that I spent about three hours or so before finding it. One of the other players in my group said they'd been looking for about 20 hours!

Grouping was definitely a better tactic than my initial running around. If you do choose to go solo, don't harvest the node, just open it and look inside, then leave it so other players can open it. And if you group with other players, loot the node after the last player in your group checks it, so you can all wait for it to spawn again.

Casdha

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

They could just open it up to Grahtwood and Stormhaven zone nodes. I believe those are the equivalent zones in the other alliances. (if it isn't that way already)

Personally I have not started looking for the new leads yet, so I have not been keeping up.

I do hope this is where everyone is at though, I was in one of the new public dungeons last night (1st Friday night after launch) and I was practically the only one in there,,, had me a little bit worried at the lack of players. Side note I did get a gold lead in there about the 3rd non trash kill.

Imo they should just bump the drop rate to 10% or something, so that people would be able to get it while playing the game normally, like most other leads.

Yea I agree, but to get to solo a new zone's public dungeon group event start to finish on the 1st Friday night after launch...... At least I have the hope that it is just folks are playing Shadowfen right now.

xeNNNNN

PrinceDamien wrote: »

After reading this post I had to go and see it for myself and I had a great time in the zone chat.
there were ofc some salt in there but far less than I had expected.
Most of the time people got together and just meme'd and being silly.
Might've been their sanity dwindling but hey, it was a lot of fun.

I didn't plan on doing any nodes myself but ended up doing it because why not, I was there and having fun in the chat meanwhile.
I didn't time it, but think I got the lead in between 1-2 hours.. 3 top and I had a good time.
But I think it might've been because I had a different mindset and wasn't stressed over getting the lead asap.

When I posted the rage was pretty bad, but the worst comes from this "stealing nodes" mentality people have, as if they have ownership over the nodes in the area because they're next to it so when someone runs over and takes it while they're too slow to react they rage.

Most have found a middle ground now in that if someone's near they check the node rather than take it because the lead is bound to the player not the node itself so the player can just take the lead without taking the node giving others another opportunity.

Someone didn't let me check a node we both ran too yesterday and so I whispered them kindly and just pointed out that they can let other people check the node without taking it because of what i've just explained. I summarily just received "**** off" and that was it lol

Elsonso

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Most have found a middle ground now in that if someone's near they check the node rather than take it because the lead is bound to the player not the node itself so the player can just take the lead without taking the node giving others another opportunity.

Interesting... so if you peek in a node and the lead is there, then close it with the lead still in there, the next person won't see that lead?

xeNNNNN

Elsonso wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Most have found a middle ground now in that if someone's near they check the node rather than take it because the lead is bound to the player not the node itself so the player can just take the lead without taking the node giving others another opportunity.

Interesting... so if you peek in a node and the lead is there, then close it with the lead still in there, the next person won't see that lead?

Thats my understanding of it, yes. Still, a considerable number of people dont' care and just take the nodes anyway. Which I honestly can't fault them for it, it is how the game is intended.

KalyanLazair

To be perfectly honest, I've been playing other games and have not been paying attention at ESO other than to do daily writs and move on to something else. That's usually what I do when there is a launch, I wait a couple of weeks until it stops feeling like a mall during Black Friday sales. However I do have been paying attention to the forums and this called my attention.

So, to get this right, there is some new piece of mythic item that's totally endgame, and their chosen location to drop the lead is the biggest cause of grief between players, which are the nodes. I don't even know what to say about that choice, but that was about the worst decision they could take. It's not just because of the mind numbing farming, which is a timesink the size of a planet, but about the fact it is increasing the toxicity between the playerbase. I know that each person is to blame for their own actions, but for Hircine's sake, you don't give a dog a bone and expect it to share because it is in their nature to protect a valuable resource. Humans are animals too, we have our own nature, and resource protection is part of it because in a very basic level you protect a resource to survive. Even if you rationalize that nobody owns a node or a farming area, there is that innate part of you telling you that you got here first, it is yours and you'll fight for it.

They could have placed them on Northern Elsweyr dragons. At least that would have made people rush in mass to kill the beasts, it's far more cooperative than where they've placed it.

Alurria

I have to agree with the dragon anology, nodes are not cooperative game play. Nodes are one person loot-n-go! At the very least this type of lead should be spread out between 3 to 4 zones. There is enough toxic behavior and grind to be had without this type of toxicity being introduced into the game. Zos can fix this with small patch really quickly. Come on Zos spread the lead out across different zones no I repeat NO should have to camp one spot for 20 hrs it's unhealthy and very toxic to the cooperation efforts of the player population.

Gaming company's in general need to realize eventually they will be under scruinty from governments for their practices. The gaming population has aged and I am sure there are complaints lodged with not only regulations entities but with government representatives as well. I am not saying this lightly but free market is one thing endangering people's health is another by presenting bad ways to obtain imaginary items. ie.. see gambling. I am just throwing this last comment out there. People are responsible for their own actions unless they have mental issues already which many do.

MirandaSharp

How about being able to buy a garden for your house where you can have your own personal node to farm?

PrinceDamien

MirandaSharp wrote: »

How about being able to buy a garden for your house where you can have your own personal node to farm?

I've been thinking that a personal garden in ones home would've been a nice feature for years.
Just making the house feel more homely to have something to take care of once in a while.

sadly how the lead is ties as it is right now it would still only work in that specific map.
But if it had been tied to all water plants nodes a personal garden would've worked just fine.
It would've been more preferable in general as well if it wasn't locked to a single map.
The drop rate would've been the same so no real different to farm nodes in 1 map than any other map.

Hallothiel

Golly gee this is going to be *such* fun on consoles next week.

Curious about ‘peeking’ at a node - not sure this available on consoles, as iirc you take it & that’s it?

VaranisArano