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Nerf warden
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Thraben✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »
BTW, if Warden kit is so epic, why the supposedly most OP thing ever(meta Stamden) playing like 5 skills which are outside of the Warden toolkit ?
Because the StamWarden is so much stronger than most other classes that most StamWardens do not even know half their class kit, and just play it like their generic Stamina classes with a bit healing and a SubAssault added.
Easy test:
1) "Dizzy Swing is required for a StamWarden because there is no reliable class stun, and don't tell me Arctic Blast is one."
2) "StamWardens have greater ressource problems than other classes, which is why their power level is justified."
3) "There is no situation when the bear does not suck in PvP."
4) "StamWardens are not very mobile."
5) "StamWardens are not OP, because MagSorcs are stronger in ranged combat situations, and zerging makes up for a large amount of combat situations."
6) SubAssault is ok, because you can simply go out of its way."
7) "Without Arctic Blast, the Warden's self-healing potential is severely limited."
And the list could go on and on -
EVERY SINGLE of those statesments is wrong, though, and marks a player who does not know the full kit of the Warden class. There are High Battleground MMR StamWardens who would not be able to correct even a single one of these statements, and still they are performing much better than even the best StamDK, or StamTemplar, on a class they are actually not familiar with. If even 5% of the StamWarden players would feel the need to actually know their class, how much worse would the current situation be?Edited by Thraben on May 27, 2021 1:36PMHauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.4 -
Berchelous✭✭✭✭Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »Berchelous wrote: »I'd reduce sub assault tooltip by %20 and add a small cost to netch.
Yes, reduce the damage of an easily avoidable skill that does about 4k damage but let's mantain the damage of a ranged skill that always do 8/9k damge.
[snip]
[snip] It's only easily avoidable in 1v1 situtation and only if you see that animation going off which most of the time doesn't happen due to lag or bug. Also consider the fact that PC players can rotate fast enough to hit with that. Which ranged skill always do 8/9k damage? Frags? If that reconsider your spell resistance.
And you say you only die when you play against a ball group. Think why all ballgroups use that skill.
The class is already tanky so tankiness + great damage? No.
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 28, 2021 10:07AM1 -
Berchelous✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Berchelous wrote: »I'd reduce sub assault tooltip by %20 and add a small cost to netch.
Major Evasion, reducing damage from area attacks by 20%
Problem solved.
Tell that to mag specs, especially magplar and magdk.1 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Berchelous wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Berchelous wrote: »I'd reduce sub assault tooltip by %20 and add a small cost to netch.
Major Evasion, reducing damage from area attacks by 20%
Problem solved.
Tell that to mag specs, especially magplar and magdk.
Right now on PTS testing Magplar build using DW front bar using "Quick Cloak". I'm new to Templar but it looks promising.0 -
Draevik✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »
You just wrote the effects of all the Warden's skills buff effects, both stamina and magicka morphs. What is the point? you can do it to any other class, it will look more or less the same. If anything, Warden got screwed big time after the Major/Minor rebalance 2 patches ago, being the class with the most dependency on the major/minor buff system.
and *** ya, calling "Lotus Flower" a "castable crit surge like ability" is priceless. Another gem, "Major Maim - attached to a large AOE placeeable pull, and immobilize", lol.
Except those
Don't buy a car from this fellow here.
BTW, if Warden kit is so epic, why the supposedly most OP thing ever(meta Stamden) playing like 5 skills which are outside of the Warden toolkit ?
Yes because they have access to almost every major and minor buff. Everything I listed there is absolutely correct, I just listed what they have access to. Go look at other classes and tally up what they have available, then do a side-by-side vs Warden.
So are you saying Warden is a weak class? Out of curiosity, what class is your main?Edited by Draevik on May 27, 2021 1:22PM1 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »
You just wrote the effects of all the Warden's skills buff effects, both stamina and magicka morphs. What is the point? you can do it to any other class, it will look more or less the same. If anything, Warden got screwed big time after the Major/Minor rebalance 2 patches ago, being the class with the most dependency on the major/minor buff system.
and *** ya, calling "Lotus Flower" a "castable crit surge like ability" is priceless. Another gem, "Major Maim - attached to a large AOE placeeable pull, and immobilize", lol.
Except those
Don't buy a car from this fellow here.
BTW, if Warden kit is so epic, why the supposedly most OP thing ever(meta Stamden) playing like 5 skills which are outside of the Warden toolkit ?
Yes because they have access to almost every major and minor buff... Everything I listed there is absolutely correct, you can get mad about it, I don't care. I just listed what they have access to.
So are you saying Warden is a weak class? Out of curiosity, what class is your main?
I main a Magden, this exactly why I know how out of touch your comment is.
You need like 5 Wardens to be able to pick up every little effect you just wrote, and who even cares? most of minor/major buffs are so mediocre ATM. i will not pickup a bad skill just to get a passive buff/debuff.
Never said Wardens are weak. Magden is mediocre, Stamden is top tier Necros are a bit stronger, other stam toons are a bit weaker, depends on the situation and so on.
This is a nerf Warden thread, not a buff Warden thread. I'm not the one complaining.4 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are you saying it's so over powering that you died to a warden? Ok the better question is this what is your personal motive to have wardens nerfed? I don't want to hear they are better than other classes either, they are purchase from Zos so clearly they need to hold value more value than a base class. If they reduce warden and necro to base classes they need to refund people's money period. Otherwise it's a bait and switch. I play a warden and I get destroyed Everytime I step foot in Cyrodil. Please don't tell me this isn't true for the majority of newer people who are stepping foot into Cyrodil.
OP is being motivated to post a nerf warden thread and I would like to know what their real motive is? I suspect they were killed by a really good warden player and now are on a revenge nerf spree. In pvp people die. No one is immune. It's not the end of the world. Everytime I see threads calling for a nerf of any class, I think to myself 'this person is mad because (insert percieved insult or assault) so now they want revenge so hey let me go to the forum and make a nerf thread and then list all the reasons the devs should nerf this class because I'm mad! It's pvp people die and guess what not always to a warden or the rest the players wouldn't have AP. I have AP and I suck at PVP.1 -
Draevik✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »I main a Magden, this exactly why I know how out of touch your comment is.
You need like 5 Wardens to be able to pick up every little effect you just wrote, and who even cares? most of minor/major buffs are so mediocre ATM. i will not pickup a bad skill just to get a passive buff/debuff.
So you don't run...
Your armor buff, permafrost, bird of prey, deep fissure, you don't heal people or yourself to get major mending and proc minor toughness, you don't run shimmering shield, blue betty, lotus blossom (prob run inner light)? That is cool, I like that you think outside the box
So what skills/ults do you run on your Magden since your class kit is so weak out of curiosity?0 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
The hp cost on Expunge is a joke, might as well be literally free. Make both cost the same as Mages Guild Balance.Urzigurumash wrote: »Maybe put the same Health cost on Netch as is on Expunge. This is a nice and simple check on the ability of a Necro to repeatedly purge under pressure.PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps2 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »I main a Magden, this exactly why I know how out of touch your comment is.
You need like 5 Wardens to be able to pick up every little effect you just wrote, and who even cares? most of minor/major buffs are so mediocre ATM. i will not pickup a bad skill just to get a passive buff/debuff.
So you don't run...
Your armor buff, permafrost, bird of prey, deep fissure, you don't heal people or yourself to get major mending and proc minor toughness, you don't run shimmering shield, blue betty, lotus blossom (prob run inner light)? That is cool, I like that you think outside the box
So what skills/ults do you run on your Magden since your class kit is so weak out of curiosity?
Out of the skills you mentioned, I don't run shimmering shield nor lotus blossom.
Regarding the other skills, what's your point, this how ZOS decided to entangled the class passive strenghs with skills. I would have preferred to get my damage buffs and healing buffs the same way necros gets them just as a clean passive, or the limitation of needing one skill of a specific tree.
Sure, perhaps I would have used Accelerate for movement, Elemental Drain for Major Breach, minor protection from Temporal Guard etc... Most Warden buffs are that hard to access. Other classes got more unique passives and can double dip on the minor/major system from different skills and sets.Edited by Lughlongarm on May 27, 2021 2:44PM0 -
Draevik✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »I main a Magden, this exactly why I know how out of touch your comment is.
You need like 5 Wardens to be able to pick up every little effect you just wrote, and who even cares? most of minor/major buffs are so mediocre ATM. i will not pickup a bad skill just to get a passive buff/debuff.
So you don't run...
Your armor buff, permafrost, bird of prey, deep fissure, you don't heal people or yourself to get major mending and proc minor toughness, you don't run shimmering shield, blue betty, lotus blossom (prob run inner light)? That is cool, I like that you think outside the box
So what skills/ults do you run on your Magden since your class kit is so weak out of curiosity?
Out of the skills you mentioned, I don't run shimmering shield nor lotus blossom.
Regarding the other skills, what's your point, this how ZOS decided to entangled the class passive strenghs with skills. I would have preferred to get my damage buffs and healing buffs the same way necros gets them just as a clean passive, or the limitation of needing one skill of a specific tree.
Sure, perhaps I would have used Accelerate for movement, Elemental Drain for Major Breach, minor protection from Temporal Guard etc... Most Warden buffs are that hard to access. Other classes got more unique passives and can double dip on the minor/major system from different skills and sets.
The Warden class has some of the best passives available
Why run accelerate when you can run a class ability that You are willing to give up an 8% damage increase from one skill?- increases damage by 2% for being slotted
- gives minor berserk while slotted
- gives major expedition when cast
- It also heals when it ends
- has the potential to grant 4 ultimate
Why run elemental drain when you- get major breach from your biggest burst skill in your toolkit
- increases damage by 2% for being slotted
- It also heals when it ends
- has the potential to grant 4 ultimate
why use an ultimate slot when you can easily get- it from your armor buff that gives major resolve, and 500 armor from passives
That seems pretty awesome to me.Edited by Draevik on May 27, 2021 3:27PM1 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »I main a Magden, this exactly why I know how out of touch your comment is.
You need like 5 Wardens to be able to pick up every little effect you just wrote, and who even cares? most of minor/major buffs are so mediocre ATM. i will not pickup a bad skill just to get a passive buff/debuff.
So you don't run...
Your armor buff, permafrost, bird of prey, deep fissure, you don't heal people or yourself to get major mending and proc minor toughness, you don't run shimmering shield, blue betty, lotus blossom (prob run inner light)? That is cool, I like that you think outside the box
So what skills/ults do you run on your Magden since your class kit is so weak out of curiosity?
Out of the skills you mentioned, I don't run shimmering shield nor lotus blossom.
Regarding the other skills, what's your point, this how ZOS decided to entangled the class passive strenghs with skills. I would have preferred to get my damage buffs and healing buffs the same way necros gets them just as a clean passive, or the limitation of needing one skill of a specific tree.
Sure, perhaps I would have used Accelerate for movement, Elemental Drain for Major Breach, minor protection from Temporal Guard etc... Most Warden buffs are that hard to access. Other classes got more unique passives and can double dip on the minor/major system from different skills and sets.
The Warden class has some of the best passives available
Why run accelerate when you can run a class ability that You are willing to give up an 8% damage increase from one skill?- increases damage by 2% for being slotted
- gives minor berserk while slotted
- gives major expedition when cast
- It also heals when it ends
- has the potential to grant 4 ultimate
Why run elemental drain when you- get major breach from your biggest burst skill in your toolkit
- increases damage by 2% for being slotted
- It also heals when it ends
- has the potential to grant 4 ultimate
why use an ultimate slot when you can easily get- it from your armor buff that gives major resolve, and 500 armor from passives
That seems pretty awesome to me.
That's my point, at the current implementation of how the passives are tied to the skill, ofc I would not take other options, it will be just silly. But I don't slot wings because I like the 6 sec expedition, I use on my front bar for the extra damage %.
Stamina toons can take Camouflaged Hunter and get the exta crit change as well. Expedition from bow back bar or the medium armor skill or the DW skill etc...0 -
Draevik✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »I main a Magden, this exactly why I know how out of touch your comment is.
You need like 5 Wardens to be able to pick up every little effect you just wrote, and who even cares? most of minor/major buffs are so mediocre ATM. i will not pickup a bad skill just to get a passive buff/debuff.
So you don't run...
Your armor buff, permafrost, bird of prey, deep fissure, you don't heal people or yourself to get major mending and proc minor toughness, you don't run shimmering shield, blue betty, lotus blossom (prob run inner light)? That is cool, I like that you think outside the box
So what skills/ults do you run on your Magden since your class kit is so weak out of curiosity?
Out of the skills you mentioned, I don't run shimmering shield nor lotus blossom.
Regarding the other skills, what's your point, this how ZOS decided to entangled the class passive strenghs with skills. I would have preferred to get my damage buffs and healing buffs the same way necros gets them just as a clean passive, or the limitation of needing one skill of a specific tree.
Sure, perhaps I would have used Accelerate for movement, Elemental Drain for Major Breach, minor protection from Temporal Guard etc... Most Warden buffs are that hard to access. Other classes got more unique passives and can double dip on the minor/major system from different skills and sets.
The Warden class has some of the best passives available
Why run accelerate when you can run a class ability that You are willing to give up an 8% damage increase from one skill?- increases damage by 2% for being slotted
- gives minor berserk while slotted
- gives major expedition when cast
- It also heals when it ends
- has the potential to grant 4 ultimate
Why run elemental drain when you- get major breach from your biggest burst skill in your toolkit
- increases damage by 2% for being slotted
- It also heals when it ends
- has the potential to grant 4 ultimate
why use an ultimate slot when you can easily get- it from your armor buff that gives major resolve, and 500 armor from passives
That seems pretty awesome to me.
That's my point, at the current implementation of how the passives are tied to the skill, ofc I would not take other options, it will be just silly. But I don't slot wings because I like the 6 sec expedition, I use on my front bar for the extra damage %.
Stamina toons can take Camouflaged Hunter and get the exta crit change as well. Expedition from bow back bar or the medium armor skill or the DW skill etc...
Except camo hunter only gives minor berserk for 5 seconds when you crit from an enemies flank, that is 2 requirements and a short duration for the same buff Wardens get just for slotting the ability. Not even comparable, not to mention of how many people used Malacath so slotting Camo Hunter isn't even a consideration in that case.
And again, there are requirements for getting expedition by running specific weapons, one is a costly short buff that gives major evasion/major expedition and limits you by running DW, - so no Vigor or battle rush passive - or running a bow and losing a defensive back bar, just to dodge roll and get major expedition.
These aren't options I would even consider in most cases when I have it as part of my kit and having all the utility attached, it is just THAT good.Edited by Draevik on May 27, 2021 5:21PM4 -
Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭
What ? Most of the tmie it's an invisible nuke with unmatched area. Can hit from 1 floor to 3 and cover whole tower or gates inside. Nowadays it has the highest numbers in my death recaps, more then frags or surprise attack and even outshine incap if hits twiceMarcus_Aurelius wrote: »Yes, reduce the damage of an easily avoidable skill that does about 4k damage
Edited by Andre_Noir on May 28, 2021 2:35PM3 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »Berchelous wrote: »I'd reduce sub assault tooltip by %20 and add a small cost to netch.
Yes, reduce the damage of an easily avoidable skill that does about 4k damage but let's mantain the damage of a ranged skill that always do 8/9k damge.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]
Unless you're great at always fighting from flank it isn't easily dodged because it can be animation cancelled, hiding the visual telegraph (not there is much of one), and there's the whole z-axis bs and going through obstacles - even giant boulders.
Maybe if they added a warning cone like other attacks it would be easier to avoid.I drink and I stream things.2 -
Sneakers✭✭✭Agree 100% with op. Give it 3 weeks and it will become painfully obvious when 10/10 players pvping is a warden lol.2
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Sneakers✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »Berchelous wrote: »I'd reduce sub assault tooltip by %20 and add a small cost to netch.
Yes, reduce the damage of an easily avoidable skill that does about 4k damage but let's mantain the damage of a ranged skill that always do 8/9k damge.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]
Unless you're great at always fighting from flank it isn't easily dodged because it can be animation cancelled, hiding the visual telegraph (not there is much of one), and there's the whole z-axis bs and going through obstacles - even giant boulders.
Maybe if they added a warning cone like other attacks it would be easier to avoid.
I am sure you already mentioned this but shalks (sub) 2nd auto free cast is invisible and also hits people independent of Z axis can be 10 meter above or below doesnt matter, it will hit.
Just cringy reading all the bowie owie wardens scrambling to defened. Well who cases anyway, will be warden vs warden soon enough anyway.7 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭2nd cast of Subterranean being invisible sounds like a bug. Maybe fix that and see how it looks?0 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Definitely a bug, ignoring the z-axis also a bug, should really have a proper ground AoE telegraph anyway.WrathOfInnos wrote: »2nd cast of Subterranean being invisible sounds like a bug. Maybe fix that and see how it looks?PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps1 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »Berchelous wrote: »I'd reduce sub assault tooltip by %20 and add a small cost to netch.
Yes, reduce the damage of an easily avoidable skill that does about 4k damage but let's mantain the damage of a ranged skill that always do 8/9k damge.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]
Unless you're great at always fighting from flank it isn't easily dodged because it can be animation cancelled, hiding the visual telegraph (not there is much of one), and there's the whole z-axis bs and going through obstacles - even giant boulders.
Maybe if they added a warning cone like other attacks it would be easier to avoid.
I am sure you already mentioned this but shalks (sub) 2nd auto free cast is invisible and also hits people independent of Z axis can be 10 meter above or below doesnt matter, it will hit.
Just cringy reading all the bowie owie wardens scrambling to defened. Well who cases anyway, will be warden vs warden soon enough anyway.
Bud, I started a poll a couple weeks ago that was about wardens running amock over Cyrodiil and all the warden fanboys showed up to claim how they aren't OP. LolI drink and I stream things.6 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Betty Netch: Duration: [19 / 20 / 21 / 22] seconds. Call a betty netch to your side, which grants you Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20% for [19 / 20 / 21 / 22] seconds. Every 5 seconds, the netch removes 1 negative effect from you.Free purge only removes 1 random effect and costs a global cool down
Are we playing same game?
Yes every 5 seconds or spam it, regardless it only removes 1 random effect. I can easily get 10+ status effects in 5 seconds so removing 1 is far from being op.
You make it sound like it's no big deal. Class has been top tier since the day it hit the servers and Warden mains will still downplay how good their kit is.
I’d be all for adding a cost to netch, but I hardly think the skill is op. You can easily add more status effects much quicker than a warden can remove them.
Personally I think their biggest strength is healing. They have access to more hots and burst heals then any other class. They get toughness health buff when healed, and all their animal skills heal them when they expire.
:Cries in Templar:0