That said, would you agree that "sword and board 40k health healer" is not A-game material? The very nature of whatever build and specs OP is using demonstrates they are not optimum for the role they chose for the dungeon, regardless of how well they perform. Case in point, my spec is pure DPS, and it even has minimal aggro pulling, but I wouldn't be at my A-game as a tank.
I would probably have to know more before I could make that determination. If the OP just has sword and board on his or her back bar, and doesn't use it to actually heal with it, then it shouldn't prevent them from being a good healer. And it's possible to manage 40k health and still throw out effective heals on this game. But from what I've seen, the OP isn't claiming to be the best healer out there. So whether or not they are an A-game healer seems irrelevant. My point was you can't go into the activity finder expecting to kick everyone who isn't an A-game player. That's just not a realistic approach. In my mind, so long as they can get the job done then there is no justifiable reason to kick them, and you have to give the person an actual chance first to find that out.
My own sense of it is the OP is likely a healer who went into a battleground and learned the hard way how imbalanced healing is when compared to the absurd amounts of damage on this game, so they started trying to improve their defense in an effort to be able to live. I could be wrong, but if I'm right then I've been there and still remember the first time I went into a battleground on my healer. It was traumatizing. lol
Goregrinder wrote: »
You also can't go in expecting everyone to be ok with a 40k HP healer running sword and board.
Goregrinder wrote: »
You also can't go in expecting everyone to be ok with a 40k HP healer running sword and board.
Exactly. That's the point.
People who play MMORPGs understand Tank, Healer, and DPS. It is common sense that a "40K HP toon equipped with a sword and board" will never be an efficient healer.
But that's simply not true.
You can still be a good healer on this game with 40k health and a sword and board on your back bar.
I didn't say "not a good healer." I said "never be an efficient healer." There's a difference.
Like I said, those group members shouldn't even know how much health that person has (that addon needs to be removed) and they didn't know if the OP was actually going to try to heal with a sword and board or not, because they never gave him or her a chance.
I don't know what that is suppose to mean. Are you suggesting that it's "common sense" for everyone who uses the activity finder who doesn't build their character for maximum efficiency to either heal, tank, or DPS should be kicked at the start of a dungeon?
I hope you are not suggesting that.
tomofhyrule wrote: »
That's not an addon. That's basegame functionality (Combat -> HUD -> Resource Numbers)
I know as a tank, I'm nervous seeing other people with SnB. I wouldn't kick them, but the question of "is this guy gonna steal my taunt?" is always in the back of my mind.
But then again I don't PUG. I've had enough bad experiences running with groups that I don't want to deal with anyone besides who I know. Besides, I know I favor non-trad builds myself (I use arena weapons), so I don't need to hear other people complain why I'm running Vateshran's SnB for large add pulls instead of laying down a destro staff wall.
What does effective (or good) mean?
"Effective" is an adjective that means achieving a result or intended purpose in a good or satisfactory way.
What does efficient mean?
"Efficient" is an adjective that means accomplishing a result in the best possible way while saving time and effort.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/effective-vs-efficient
In other words, a good player might help the group clear the content (they met the minimum), but an efficient player will help the group clear the content faster (they did an excellent job).
Does that help clarify the difference?
Exactly. That's the point.
People typically understand Tank, Healer, and DPS. It is common sense that a "40K HP toon equipped with a sword and board" will never be an efficient healer.
Like I said, those group members shouldn't even know how much health that person has (that addon needs to be removed) and they didn't know if the OP was actually going to try to heal with a sword and board or not, because they never gave him or her a chance.
Kicks at the very beginning are never justified. And you can still be a good healer on this game with 40k health and a sword and board on your back bar. If people want to set specific requirements then they need to make their own groups. Otherwise the only thing that should matter is whether or not they can get the job they signed up for done.
Goregrinder wrote: »
Knowing the HP of your group is an essential function and has been a base function in most MMORPG's since the 90's.
Ahh, you are smart. Most of that you nailed. PVP is so much fun, I was getting annihilated, like in 2 seconds. Frustrated, I made some huge changes based on some private messages in this forum with other magcros. Now I just love my class, I am a BG fiend, I can take huge damage and stand there in the flags while getting beat on, shaking it off like gnats. My DPS isn't that great (with this build) but even in a death match, if I have good teammates that stay together we can easily win, in part because they get massive kills as a unit, and definitely in part because I'm keeping them alive. So in between BG I like to run dungeons, its fun and the vast majority of people are friendly and casual and only once did a dungeon run fail so while I may be carried more than I help, it's certainly not to the detriment of my teammates since we very easily, and usually without issue, steamroll the dungeons.
My own sense of it is the OP is likely a healer who went into a battleground and learned the hard way how imbalanced healing is when compared to the absurd amounts of damage on this game, so they started trying to improve their defense in an effort to be able to live. I could be wrong, but if I'm right then I've been there and still remember the first time I went into a battleground on my healer. It was traumatizing. lol
You also can't go in expecting everyone to be ok with a 40k HP healer running sword and board.
Exactly. That's the point.
People typically understand Tank, Healer, and DPS. It is common sense that a "40K HP toon equipped with a sword and board" will never be an efficient healer.
marshill88 wrote: »Ahh, you are smart. Most of that you nailed. PVP is so much fun, I was getting annihilated, like in 2 seconds. Frustrated, I made some huge changes based on some private messages in this forum with other magcros. Now I just love my class, I am a BG fiend, I can take huge damage and stand there in the flags while getting beat on, shaking it off like gnats. My DPS isn't that great (with this build) but even in a death match, if I have good teammates that stay together we can easily win, in part because they get massive kills as a unit, and definitely in part because I'm keeping them alive. So in between BG I like to run dungeons, its fun and the vast majority of people are friendly and casual and only once did a dungeon run fail so while I may be carried more than I help, it's certainly not to the detriment of my teammates since we very easily, and usually without issue, steamroll the dungeons.
If dungeons were harder I would pay more attention to the minutia and fine details of my build, but its just not necessary. I always ask when its a new boss i haven't seen though...just in case i need to do something specific for the team.
But it's not essential. You cannot determine if a healer is good or bad by looking to see if they have 40k health. As I just told you, you can still be a good healer on this game and have 40k health. That is not impossible.
You roll with the group's decision. That's demonstrating compromise and common courtesy. If they want to do the secret boss and you don't want to, then they find a replacement. Your spite of their success means nothing.
marshill88 wrote: »
No, mate. Disagree. I'm not a pro-healer with my setup, and certainly there are much better "pure healer" builds, but as a tank-healer, i absolutely have some really effective, powerful heals, so no, it's just a myth and doesn't reflect the truth of this game. Pure healer? No. Tanky build with decent healing good enough for most of the dungeons? Definitely yes. Able to change my setup in mid-run for a specific boss? OF course. Willing to change my setup for a specific boss? Absolutely.
Deserve to get booted before I even have a chance to play? No way.
Yikes....
If it was a kick on sight, that would be a valid reason to feel miffed, but they tried to understand what they were getting themselves in for and got nothing in return.
It can be hard to rise above feeling defensive, hurt and offended, but it probably would have gone differently with a polite reply explaining you're a good healer and to please give you chance.
Cause an underperforming player is annoying in a dungeon, but a bad attitude gets the boot.
What does efficient mean?
"Efficient" is an adjective that means accomplishing a result in the best possible way while saving time and effort.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/effective-vs-efficient
Actually, you can. It means they don't know their class. If they don't know their class, then it is a surefire certainty that they won't be efficient to the group regardless of how good they think they are [e.g., "good versus efficient"]. I've had my fair share on both sides (of not knowing my class and once I corrected those mistakes, then being in groups with others who did not know their class).
marshill88 wrote: »
PVP trounces most PVE content in difficulty.
Again: so what are you suggesting here, that everyone who uses the Activity Finder and doesn't build their character for maximum efficiency to either heal, tank or DPS should be kicked at the start?
You did a few dungeons and say PvP is harder than most PvE content? What is hard about PvP? Killing a Player? Getting Emporer?
I want to see you get into a Veteran Trial with that Build and say that again, lol.
Also, you say the Dungeons you went into were easy, although you only saw them from one perspective? That perspective coming from the role you need the least in a Dungeon Scenario? In like, you are perfectly fine without it most of the time.
And yet you act like you added much to the previous Groups and degrade their performance?
They're saying it is more challenging because behind every toon is a person issuing unscripted commands. There's a high level of unpredictability. Unpredictability makes PVP inherently challenging.
But it's not essential. You cannot determine if a healer is good or bad by looking to see if they have 40k health. As I just told you, you can still be a good healer on this game and have 40k health. That is not impossible.