A poll on raising the group size limit (old OP updated)

Sanctum74

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

Why haven't ZOS answered any of the questions about this change? What is their reasoning for this change? This has still not been explained, at all.

I agree, we have 3 community managers and not even one of them can take 30 seconds of their time to explain why they made this change again to further divide their community.

flowyarg

I'm not interested in PVP, so I can't say whether this is a good thing or not for PVP. As for PVE, it would not have a good effect or be received well by players (IMHO).

The only reason I can see to do this is to reduce the load on servers to improve game performance.

If this is the reason then I would offer a counter proposal to improve game performance. When in a large group and in combat there is a lot of lights, flashes, and other effects that are visible on the ground. I usually find all these 'light shows' make it harder for me to fight. I really don't want to see them. What if there was a settings choice(s) that I could select to see only my whiz bang effects and not everyone else's. And for those ground visuals that I need to see (like healers hot circles) that I can opt to see the full visual effect or out for just a green spot on the ground. This should reduce a lot of the load on what has to be streamed from the server(s) to my computer.

I don't know if this is do-able or not, but I would be willing to forgo a lot of the light show for better performance and keeping the large groups. After having seen all the light shows a dozen times, I really only need to see the ones that I can interact with or that interact with me.

Just a thought.

JoeCapricorn

Restricting groups to just 12 will not benefit performance. It might do the opposite, instead of 3 groups running dolmens in Alik'r it would be 6. It's not going to cut down on the gathering of players, but it will impact guild-run social events the worst.

Lumsdenml

None of the above. Move it back to 24 in Cyrodiil.

JoeCapricorn

Lumsdenml wrote: »

None of the above. Move it back to 24 in Cyrodiil.

I agree with this! In fact, the halved group sizes in Cyrodiil have made group activities in Cyrodiil less fun. I haven't done PVP in a long time, and partly it is because the 12-person limit in Cyrodiil is too limiting.

Jaraal

I voted Other: Raise group size limits outside of trials to 40.

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

Why haven't ZOS answered any of the questions about this change? What is their reasoning for this change? This has still not been explained, at all.

zaria wrote: »

Random nerfs because they have to nerf something?

This is usually the case, when they give no reason for it.

I honestly think ZOS looks for ways to reduce fun. Not sure why..... but this certainly seems to be the case in this instance.

JoeCapricorn

So either they come out and say "this change was made in error, it won't be going live"

or this thread is going to get very popular in June.

Knockmaker

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

So either they come out and say "this change was made in error, it won't be going live"

or this thread is going to get very popular in June.

This isn't enough. We shouldn't be just thinking for ourselves. We need to stand together against this nonsense as a whole. The current changes on group sizes for PvP must be reverted as well.

Smitch_59

As a solo player I really don't care. But I voted for 12 because ZOS knows best. Right?

JoeCapricorn

Knockmaker wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

So either they come out and say "this change was made in error, it won't be going live"

or this thread is going to get very popular in June.

This isn't enough. We shouldn't be just thinking for ourselves. We need to stand together against this nonsense as a whole. The current changes on group sizes for PvP must be reverted as well.

I'll tell you what, if this global change goes live... I'm making a new thread.

"Please give back 24 player groups!"

It'll get like 80 pages like the Rapid Maneuver thread.

You see, had I known that later down the road ZOS would be implementing Major Gallop as an easily acquired passive, I would have been okay. Ideally, they should have waited until that point to swap Rapid Maneuver and Vigor as well. It is likely, however, that Major Gallop becoming a passive was a decision made in response to the feedback over Rapid Maneuver.

In this case, if there is something in the works that might replace social groups, they should either: TELL us about it, or WAIT until that feature is ready to limit standard groups to 12.

Ryath_Waylander

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

None of the above. Move it back to 24 in Cyrodiil.

I agree with this! In fact, the halved group sizes in Cyrodiil have made group activities in Cyrodiil less fun. I haven't done PVP in a long time, and partly it is because the 12-person limit in Cyrodiil is too limiting.

I think you need to start a thread that's title is purely "please no 12 person limit in PVE" this thread is being watered down by claims of performance improvement potential (Originally claimed as the reason for Cyro 12 limit and then debunked by ZoS themselves) and people insisting the 24 size groups in Cyro won't work.
The change at issue is the PTS "12-person limit in PVE zone" change.

Please NO ZoS!!!

Jaraal

Ryath_Waylander wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

None of the above. Move it back to 24 in Cyrodiil.

I agree with this! In fact, the halved group sizes in Cyrodiil have made group activities in Cyrodiil less fun. I haven't done PVP in a long time, and partly it is because the 12-person limit in Cyrodiil is too limiting.

I think you need to start a thread that's title is purely "please no 12 person limit in PVE" this thread is being watered down by claims of performance improvement potential (Originally claimed as the reason for Cyro 12 limit and then debunked by ZoS themselves) and people insisting the 24 size groups in Cyro won't work.
The change at issue is the PTS "12-person limit in PVE zone" change.

Please NO ZoS!!!

But most people want the 12 person group change in Cyrodiil reverted back to 24, as has been fine for years.

12 person groups should not be required anywhere but trials.

agegarton

I don’t think that reduced group sizes has done anything for Cyrodiil performance, so I don’t really see the point unless the server infrastructure or game code is creaking so much at the seams that the change was essential.

For an MMO where the first “M” is supposed to stand for “massively”, there are a lot of limitations in this game.

Perhaps ESO is actually a SBMO - a Slightly Big Multiplayer Online ?


Play Your Way (but only if the game can handle it).

Fischblut

My vote is "Raise group size limits outside of Cyrodiil to 40" AND in Cyrodiil.

There is zero reason to reduce the max number of players in group in Multiplayer game
Also, as nowadays lot of armor sets provide buffs and utility only to group members, it further limits their potential usefulness to many allies around. Reducing group size to 12 people does not remove all other players around - there will be many players at the same place anyway. But their experience will be less fun

GW2 can have 50 people in squad

Brrrofski

Agalloch wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Bigger pve groups and back to 24 in Cyrodiil.

This!


Please ZOS. ESO is A MMORPG ..not an co-op squad game!

Haha, good one dude.

Where you been the last 3 years?

It's now an ORPG.

TwinLamps

12 should be the limit everywhere.
For guild events just make several groups.
Guild events are usually if not always followed with voice comms so there is no big deal for reducing group size to 12 there.

Varana

Errr... no they're not?
Several groups can't talk to each other, and can't see each other on the map.
Many players refrain from using voice - even passively, and more actively - for various reasons. (New to MMOs. Don't speak English very well. No mic. Have to install 3rd party software and go through registration hoops. Privacy/anonymity. And so on. And all are valid.) And many of these events are meant specifically to ease players into guild and group activities.
It is a big deal.

RedMuse

TwinLamps wrote: »

12 should be the limit everywhere.
For guild events just make several groups.
Guild events are usually if not always followed with voice comms so there is no big deal for reducing group size to 12 there.

Not everyone have access to voice comm or am able to use it. This stop non-guild groups from forming and working. It completely tanks RP events, both guild and non-guild ones.

You really don't seem to grasp the depths of the problem.

JoeCapricorn

So out of all those that have responded to my poll, 71% are against this change.

I admit I made it a bit convoluted with the 40-man group idea, but I wanted to make sure this thread was slightly different.

It looks like ZOS is about to hear the feedback of 71% of us, consider the feedback of 71% of us, and not care about what the 71% of us think and let the half-sized groups go live.

It's frustrating because so many guild leaders have put forth compelling arguments against this change, and I personally fear the impact it might have on a few of my guilds. Some of them I've been with for years! One since 2014!

to have our feedback fall on deaf ears kinda hurts, to be honest.

I was really hoping that ZOS would listen to us for once before pushing an unpopular change live (and to be fair, there are a lot of other changes planned for Update 30 that are unpopular!) and knick it in the bud before it goes live and causes an extended snafu in the community.

*sigh*

iksde

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

So out of all those that have responded to my poll, 71% are against this change.
...
It looks like ZOS is about to hear the feedback of 71% of us, consider the feedback of 71% of us, and not care about what the 71% of us think and let the half-sized groups go live.
...

welcome to ZOS game xD

xMetalheartx

Since Crossheal is back in Cyro there is no point in limiting the group size to 12. It's just harder for guilds to coordinate theyr groups

Varana

xMetalheartx wrote: »

Since Crossheal is back in Cyro there is no point in limiting the group size to 12. It's just harder for guilds to coordinate theyr groups

This is not about Cyrodiil at all.

BloodMagicLord

Guys, the reduced group size in Cyro is an attempt to help server performance. To hell with your ball group crutches, some of us actually like to have an engaging pvp experience without action delay sometimes.

BloodMagicLord

In PvE though I really don't see the point in reducing group size.

BlueRaven

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

Guys, the reduced group size in Cyro is an attempt to help server performance. To hell with your ball group crutches, some of us actually like to have an engaging pvp experience without action delay sometimes.

Vote choices:

Raise group size limits outside of Cyrodiil to 40

Keep group size limits outside of Cyrodiil to 24

Sanctum74

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

Guys, the reduced group size in Cyro is an attempt to help server performance. To hell with your ball group crutches, some of us actually like to have an engaging pvp experience without action delay sometimes.

It didn’t help performance at all and ball groups don’t run more than 12 players anyway so if anything it made them stronger.

RedMuse

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

Guys, the reduced group size in Cyro is an attempt to help server performance. To hell with your ball group crutches, some of us actually like to have an engaging pvp experience without action delay sometimes.

As they've already said that it did nothing for performance Idk what the purpose of this comment was. They kept it because they wanted to encourage some quote, behavioral changes, unquote, that they were seeing. Not because it did anything for performance.

Which is why I don't believe that spiel about this change in overland groups being about performance.

xv1_me

We need one man groups to be the max. Then take all the stupidly op guards out of Cyrodiil.

Next we need to make all the overland pve actually challenging.

The only thing that eso mobs do is snare u and put you in perma combat.

Nothing is challenging in this game.

Dolphinsgal

The whole point for the pvp 12 man groups was to help server lag, which it did NOT help, it made things WORSE. They need to go back to 24 man groups in Cyrodiil and up the limit overland groups.
12 man groups is not enough for social guilds and the groups/events they tend to run for overland content. Most social events will hit the 24 limit quickly and need someone to help run a second group, now instead of possibly 2 crowns being needed 3+ will be needed or guilds will have to find the time/ability to run the same event(s) multiple times a week and that causes burnout for officers/GM's quicker. Therefore limiting everyone to 12man groups is a seriously bad idea, even if it's a performance reason it won't help if you look to pvp for reference this will make performance worse.

O_LYKOS

Fine. But I’m keep my non combat pet out.