PTS Update 30 - Feedback Thread for New Item Sets

Firstmep

Waffennacht wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Has anyone tested gaze of sithis in a duel? For at least 2 of my characters I reckon it will be busted. I am planning to test PTS soon, but duelling from the EU is totally pointless.

Yes, also from eu.

The difference between having it on and not is just staggering.

I was swapping between 2pc bloodspawn and 1bs/sithis, and with the sithis setup i didnt even have to worry about reacting to my opponent or to keep my heals up.

I can already say, that having this set and not having it is going to be a chasm of difference in pvp.

As it stands, this set needs to go.

Im here with 7k wpd, 2 procsets, normally youd think its a glass cannon build, well think again, 38/36k resistance, 37k max hp.

Just no. They need to go back to the drawing table with this one.

They could reduce the resistance (but then it wouldn't be on par with malacath)
They could lower max health (but then why even run it?)
They could remove the health regen (worthless as is)

I dont see myself sacrificing Zaan + Malacath if this set losses any if its armor/health

Its just insane how big of a difference it makes. Frankly id rather see it have less extreme ups and downs.

Yeah losing something like zaan is defo a downside, mala is kinda whatever after the nerf tbh, you can easily make that damage back elsewhere.

relentless_turnip

Firstmep wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Has anyone tested gaze of sithis in a duel? For at least 2 of my characters I reckon it will be busted. I am planning to test PTS soon, but duelling from the EU is totally pointless.

Yes, also from eu.

The difference between having it on and not is just staggering.

I was swapping between 2pc bloodspawn and 1bs/sithis, and with the sithis setup i didnt even have to worry about reacting to my opponent or to keep my heals up.

I can already say, that having this set and not having it is going to be a chasm of difference in pvp.

As it stands, this set needs to go.

Im here with 7k wpd, 2 procsets, normally youd think its a glass cannon build, well think again, 38/36k resistance, 37k max hp.

Just no. They need to go back to the drawing table with this one.

Thanks for replying. I hope it does receive a nerf also. I think if you run a bow and 2h or a resto/destro this will be bis by a huge margin

Tivnael

Frostbite

Interesting seet, but unfortunately too weak. Compared to othre five piece bonuses with that much restrictions, frost damage boost should be around 12% (+4% chilled +2% brittle)

Sahidom

There could be some significant resistance stacking synergies with the following sets,

Gaze of Sithis – Heavy Head
1 – Adds 5000 Maximum Health
1 – Adds 500 Health Recovery
1 – Adds 10760 Armor
1 – Reduces your Block Mitigation to 0.

AND

Heartland Conqueror
2 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
3 – Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
4 – Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
5 – Increases the effectiveness of your Weapon Traits by 100%. This does not affect Ornate or Intricate traits.

With a Defending weapon trait. 2H Defending on live server returns 3276, however, with Heartland Conqueror would return 6552 physical/spell resistances (17,312 combined). Light Armor users would benefit significantly with the set combination in PVP with near maximum cap resistances and 5-7 pcs Light Armor penetration bonuses.

Include the CP slot-able stars for an additional 1400 resistances, and optional choice an equipped Ice Staff with the Warfare star would increase resistances by another 1900 points. This combination would increase the overall damage shield effectiveness since incoming damage versus damage shields is reduced by the player's resistances (minus penetration etc.)

Firstmep

Sahidom wrote: »

There could be some significant resistance stacking synergies with the following sets,

Gaze of Sithis – Heavy Head
1 – Adds 5000 Maximum Health
1 – Adds 500 Health Recovery
1 – Adds 10760 Armor
1 – Reduces your Block Mitigation to 0.

AND

Heartland Conqueror
2 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
3 – Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
4 – Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
5 – Increases the effectiveness of your Weapon Traits by 100%. This does not affect Ornate or Intricate traits.

With a Defending weapon trait. 2H Defending on live server returns 3276, however, with Heartland Conqueror would return 6552 physical/spell resistances. Light Armor users would benefit significantly with the set combination in PVP with near maximum cap resistances and 5-7 pcs Light Armor penetration bonuses.

Frankly the same could be said for medium armor as well. Exept you can get insane wpd values while also being stupid tanky.

Heartland Conqueror is a very interesting set tho, depending on your weapon traits, its actually a very flexible set.

I think it should stay the same for now, and let people play around with it.

Sithis is just straight too much stats for too little sacrafice.

Tommy_The_Gun

master_vanargand wrote: »

Gaze of Sithis is too strong.
At least "Adds 10760 Armor" should be removed.
Still this will be strong.

10760 armor is in line with Malacath's Band of Brutality.

Armor gives 15 - 16-ish % dmg reduction, and brutality ring increases your dmg done by 15 - 16%, but allows crit from "auto" crit abilities, like Critical Charge, Shadowy Disguise or sets, like Mechanical Acuity.

So I don't think it is an issue. This new mythic has a huge drawback in terms of removing block mitigation (and that is A LOT of mitigation one is missing) and also you can not pair it with monster sets, since it is a helmet, and moster sets are 2nd most powerful sets in the game, right after mythics.

Sahidom

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Gaze of Sithis is too strong.
At least "Adds 10760 Armor" should be removed.
Still this will be strong.

10760 armor is in line with Malacath's Band of Brutality.

Armor gives 15 - 16-ish % dmg reduction, and brutality ring increases your dmg done by 15 - 16%, but allows crit from "auto" crit abilities, like Critical Charge, Shadowy Disguise or sets, like Mechanical Acuity.

So I don't think it is an issue. This new mythic has a huge drawback in terms of removing block mitigation (and that is A LOT of mitigation one is missing) and also you can not pair it with monster sets, since it is a helmet, and moster sets are 2nd most powerful sets in the game, right after mythics.

The set combination

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Gaze of Sithis is too strong.
At least "Adds 10760 Armor" should be removed.
Still this will be strong.

10760 armor is in line with Malacath's Band of Brutality.

Armor gives 15 - 16-ish % dmg reduction, and brutality ring increases your dmg done by 15 - 16%, but allows crit from "auto" crit abilities, like Critical Charge, Shadowy Disguise or sets, like Mechanical Acuity.

So I don't think it is an issue. This new mythic has a huge drawback in terms of removing block mitigation (and that is A LOT of mitigation one is missing) and also you can not pair it with monster sets, since it is a helmet, and moster sets are 2nd most powerful sets in the game, right after mythics.

For Light Armor and Medium Armor, you gain all the resistance benefits of Heavy Armor w/o the drawbacks except LA martial damage increase.

The conquerer set is diverse and I was just looking at the resistances; flip it and you gain 7.3k pen on a 2H Maul, and that's gonna negate a lot of resistances.

JoSePHRiNG

I only tried "Heartland Conquerer" with "Torug's Pact" and only tried infused.

Only buffed the "enchantment effectiveness" ratio rather than both "cooldown of the enchantment" and "the effectiveness".

It seems I get 2 secs cooldown on damage glyphs( such as flame and shock)? or maybe I have seen the numbers wrong?

Is there a way to calculate the values of the cooldowns of enchantments?

katorga

Waffennacht wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Has anyone tested gaze of sithis in a duel? For at least 2 of my characters I reckon it will be busted. I am planning to test PTS soon, but duelling from the EU is totally pointless.

Yes, also from eu.

The difference between having it on and not is just staggering.

I was swapping between 2pc bloodspawn and 1bs/sithis, and with the sithis setup i didnt even have to worry about reacting to my opponent or to keep my heals up.

I can already say, that having this set and not having it is going to be a chasm of difference in pvp.

As it stands, this set needs to go.

Im here with 7k wpd, 2 procsets, normally youd think its a glass cannon build, well think again, 38/36k resistance, 37k max hp.

Just no. They need to go back to the drawing table with this one.

They could reduce the resistance (but then it wouldn't be on par with malacath)
They could lower max health (but then why even run it?)
They could remove the health regen (worthless as is)

I dont see myself sacrificing Zaan + Malacath if this set losses any if its armor/health

tbh, I think they should delete it and start over. It will be as OP as malacath is this patch.

That said, if they keep it in, then KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS...way too many fun builds you can cheese together with Gaze of Sithis. May as well have fun.

ESO_Nightingale

The idea of frostbite is fantastic. But the bonus is not enough. Especially when there are not nearly enough frost damage skills to go along with it, this is the biggest problem.

I think buffing the set a little bit is important, but i think the most important thing is changing some or all magicka warden animal companions skills to frost damage.

Deep Fissure seriously needs to deal this type of damage more than any other skill in the line. Most of the frost wardens i know still use this skill regardless of damage type because it's damage is really important for warden. If it was able to do frost damage that means it would be able to proc chilled, and to be able to gain the bonuses from sets like frostbite and ysgramor's birthright.

Winter's embrace abilties having more chilled chance is nice and everything, but all of the skills that we use should deal frost damage to maximize the chance to apply it. Especially because applying chilled with double ice staves and frostbite literally now means +6% damage and +20% crit damage against enemies. We need to be able to keep a constant uptime just through our damage. And having just winter's revenge is no-where near enough from both a realistic gameplay angle and a thematic one.

So zos, i implore you to change the damage types of Deep Fissure and Screaming Cliff Racer to frost damage, from magic. This would be for the best when it comes to inter-class synergy.

I do not know how or even if you will choose to buff frostbite, provided you hear our feedback, but considering how everyone has come to the same conclusion i hope you choose to change our animal companions damage types to frost and add a small bonus to the 5 piece.

LeHarrt91

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

The idea of frostbite is fantastic. But the bonus is not enough. Especially when there are not nearly enough frost damage skills to go along with it, this is the biggest problem.

I think buffing the set a little bit is important, but i think the most important thing is changing some or all magicka warden animal companions skills to frost damage.

Deep Fissure seriously needs to deal this type of damage more than any other skill in the line. Most of the frost wardens i know still use this skill regardless of damage type because it's damage is really important for warden. If it was able to do frost damage that means it would be able to proc chilled, and to be able to gain the bonuses from sets like frostbite and ysgramor's birthright.

Winter's embrace abilties having more chilled chance is nice and everything, but all of the skills that we use should deal frost damage to maximize the chance to apply it. Especially because applying chilled with double ice staves and frostbite literally now means +6% damage and +20% crit damage against enemies. We need to be able to keep a constant uptime just through our damage. And having just winter's revenge is no-where near enough from both a realistic gameplay angle and a thematic one.

So zos, i implore you to change the damage types of Deep Fissure and Screaming Cliff Racer to frost damage, from magic. This would be for the best when it comes to inter-class synergy.

I do not know how you choose to buff frostbite, provided you hear our feedback, but considering how everyone has come to the same conclusion i hope you choose to add bonuses to the 5 piece bonus.

Yes, more Frost damage skills would be ideal, and better passives/ effects for Frost damage in the Destruction skill line.

But a buff to Frostbite's Frost Damage wouldn't hurt either, make it all frost damage so Light Attacks and Glyphs gain the buff.

YandereGirlfriend

@zvavi hits the nail on the head as to where Frostbite ought to be tuned. It needs to be +12% Frost Damage (at a minimum) before we can even entertain the question of whether or not the set is powerful enough.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

The idea of frostbite is fantastic. But the bonus is not enough. Especially when there are not nearly enough frost damage skills to go along with it, this is the biggest problem.

I think buffing the set a little bit is important, but i think the most important thing is changing some or all magicka warden animal companions skills to frost damage.

Deep Fissure seriously needs to deal this type of damage more than any other skill in the line. Most of the frost wardens i know still use this skill regardless of damage type because it's damage is really important for warden. If it was able to do frost damage that means it would be able to proc chilled, and to be able to gain the bonuses from sets like frostbite and ysgramor's birthright.

Winter's embrace abilties having more chilled chance is nice and everything, but all of the skills that we use should deal frost damage to maximize the chance to apply it. Especially because applying chilled with double ice staves and frostbite literally now means +6% damage and +20% crit damage against enemies. We need to be able to keep a constant uptime just through our damage. And having just winter's revenge is no-where near enough from both a realistic gameplay angle and a thematic one.

So zos, i implore you to change the damage types of Deep Fissure and Screaming Cliff Racer to frost damage, from magic. This would be for the best when it comes to inter-class synergy.

I do not know how you choose to buff frostbite, provided you hear our feedback, but considering how everyone has come to the same conclusion i hope you choose to add bonuses to the 5 piece bonus.

And of course I agree with all of this as well.

Awkwardly bifurcating the class between Magic and Frost Damage serves no design or greater thematic goal whatsoever. As such, the class ought to specialize in that which sets it apart from other classes - an emphasis on Frost Damage. Adding Frost Shalks (and, ideally, all the rest of the Animal Companions as well) would be a fantastic place to begin the repair. After achieving this, adding more Frost Damage skills to Winter's Embrace is the next logical project.

Ragnaroek93

Gaze of Sithis should be tuned down a bit. The idea of the item is good considering that it helps builds which don't build around block (and lets be honest, sword and board overshadows all other weapon skill lines except on maybe sorc and nb and even that's debatable. It's the first time since quite a while when I saw a lot of classes playing dw + 2h, 2h + bow etc, which is a good thing). I'd nerf health and resis by 20-30% I guess, people forget that it has to give something for disabling both block and a 2p set.

Death Dealer’s Fete should either give more than 150 hp/stam/mag per stack or increase the maximal amount of stacks. Maybe give 250 hp/stam/mag per stack or let it stack up to 20 times.

Don't really like how Malacath is getting nerfed even tho I've never used that item. Could be even fine now with the proc set adjustments and if it still overperforms I'd suggest that it shouldn't increase proc damage. Don't really see what the point is, reducing crit damage by 50% in PvP means that almost all builds will still deal 0 crit damage (assuming that your opponent is using a bit impen).

WuffyCerulei

Tank friend of mine is NOT thrilled with the 0 block mitigation on the Gaze of Sithis. And lack of health on his tank now. Probably lower the stat bonuses and only have the mitigation be about halved.

katorga

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Gaze of Sithis is too strong.
At least "Adds 10760 Armor" should be removed.
Still this will be strong.

10760 armor is in line with Malacath's Band of Brutality.

Armor gives 15 - 16-ish % dmg reduction, and brutality ring increases your dmg done by 15 - 16%, but allows crit from "auto" crit abilities, like Critical Charge, Shadowy Disguise or sets, like Mechanical Acuity.

So I don't think it is an issue. This new mythic has a huge drawback in terms of removing block mitigation (and that is A LOT of mitigation one is missing) and also you can not pair it with monster sets, since it is a helmet, and moster sets are 2nd most powerful sets in the game, right after mythics.

Nice point about Sithis being a defensive mirror of Malacath.

Nice change with malacath, you can use it with crit surge now.

master_vanargand

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Gaze of Sithis is too strong.
At least "Adds 10760 Armor" should be removed.
Still this will be strong.

10760 armor is in line with Malacath's Band of Brutality.

Armor gives 15 - 16-ish % dmg reduction, and brutality ring increases your dmg done by 15 - 16%, but allows crit from "auto" crit abilities, like Critical Charge, Shadowy Disguise or sets, like Mechanical Acuity.

So I don't think it is an issue. This new mythic has a huge drawback in terms of removing block mitigation (and that is A LOT of mitigation one is missing) and also you can not pair it with monster sets, since it is a helmet, and moster sets are 2nd most powerful sets in the game, right after mythics.

Gaze of Sithis does not match Malacath's Band of Brutality.
Don't you know that Gaze of Sithis has "Add 5000 Health and Add 500 Health Recovery"?

And let's math.

x = 100 [Damage]
y = 1.16 [Effect from Malacath Band of Brutality]
z = 0.837 [10760 armor from Gaze of Sithis]

(x * y) * z = 97.092

Gaze of Sithis is god mode.

Tannus15

Firstmep wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Heartland Conqueror
2 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
3 – Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
4 – Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
5 – Increases the effectiveness of your Weapon Traits by 100%. This does not affect Ornate or Intricate traits.

So this doubles infused?

100% enchantment cooldown reduction and 60% boost in enchantment effect.

Combined with CP passive where enchantment never needs to be recharged.

That's not how ZoS' math usually works.

So infused brings a 5 sec cool down too 2.5. Then it'll probably give u 100% of the 50% so that goes to 1.75 seconds.

Then if u used Torug, that 1.75 gets reduced by 33% or .58 bringing the cool down to 1.17 seconds

Tested on pts, only the enchantment effect gets boost part gets doubled.

I think infused might not be the absolute best for this set, i think boosting penetration thru sharpened might be better.

And the set defo needs to be double barred otherwise its just not worth it.

To give you and idea, infused wpd glyph before Heartland is 452, with Heartland its 556, only about 100 increase which is pretty weak, but thats beacuse infused starts at a low value of 30%.

Meanwhile Sharpened: W/o: 3276 w:6552. Thats like almost as much pen as 5 pc spriggans.

But to take it further, it can give another 8% healing done on powered, an extra 7%!! crit with precise etc.

So i think, sadly, infused is probably the weakest trait youd want this with.

given infused gets the least benefit, you could front bar it in theory, since pretty much every build is infused WD on the back bar.
how does this look with nirn?

ESO_Nightingale

Cellentel wrote: »

I did a few comparison parses between Frostbite and Julianos on a double ice staff Magden. Each was worn on the body with a Medusa fire enchant frontbar, and a Maelstrom frost enchant backbar. I choose Julianos because it's an easy-to-acquire mag set without any fancy proc conditions that has consistently remained a solid but never optimal setup since its release. For a new set to be useful it needs to at least beat Julianos because otherwise there's no point.

The result: they were basically the same, well within the margin of error/lag/crit rng. This does not look good for frostbite.

Frostbite has a number of restrictions built into it that make it harder to use than Julianos. It requests Frost skills, which pretty much limits it to the Magden, and in practice probably means you need to double-bar an ice staff. It requires the enemy to be chilled/brittle, which isn't going to be 100% (admittedly, if you're double barring an ice staff, that's probably your job). If you can get the same ops with the basic craftable magdps set, why bother with these restrictions?

The core problem, of course, is the lack of ice skills. 6% is a fine bonus if it could apply to a large % of your damage, but even on an ice/ice Magden you're probably not going to get more than ~40% or so of your damage as ice damage.

Possible Solutions:

• Buff the damage bonuses. Double the ice damage bonus to 12% would make it more viable for ice/ice setups while still limiting it to an ice/ice maiden. Buffing the other bonuses would potentially increase the chance that other classes can use it (as long as somebody else is doing brittle).
• Increase the number of ice skills available to take advantage of it. As has been requested before, changing the Warden's magic-dealing Animal Companions skills to Frost damage would be a perfect solution for that.

Note that the goal I'm setting here is pretty low — I want Frostbite to be better than Julianos for the niche that it's capable of. I'm not even trying to get it to compete with fire/fire setups or harder to get sets like Siroria.

This entire post is absolutely everything I was going to say, but more. @Cellentel completely covered it. Amazing and concise writeup dude. Fantastic work.

WrathOfInnos

Tannus15 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Heartland Conqueror
2 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
3 – Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
4 – Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
5 – Increases the effectiveness of your Weapon Traits by 100%. This does not affect Ornate or Intricate traits.

So this doubles infused?

100% enchantment cooldown reduction and 60% boost in enchantment effect.

Combined with CP passive where enchantment never needs to be recharged.

That's not how ZoS' math usually works.

So infused brings a 5 sec cool down too 2.5. Then it'll probably give u 100% of the 50% so that goes to 1.75 seconds.

Then if u used Torug, that 1.75 gets reduced by 33% or .58 bringing the cool down to 1.17 seconds

Tested on pts, only the enchantment effect gets boost part gets doubled.

I think infused might not be the absolute best for this set, i think boosting penetration thru sharpened might be better.

And the set defo needs to be double barred otherwise its just not worth it.

To give you and idea, infused wpd glyph before Heartland is 452, with Heartland its 556, only about 100 increase which is pretty weak, but thats beacuse infused starts at a low value of 30%.

Meanwhile Sharpened: W/o: 3276 w:6552. Thats like almost as much pen as 5 pc spriggans.

But to take it further, it can give another 8% healing done on powered, an extra 7%!! crit with precise etc.

So i think, sadly, infused is probably the weakest trait youd want this with.

given infused gets the least benefit, you could front bar it in theory, since pretty much every build is infused WD on the back bar.
how does this look with nirn?

It’s weak with Nirn, basically a 5pc bonus that only gives 200 weapon/spell damage. Worse than Juli/Hundings and it has a wasted bonus on the 3 or 4pc.

Slightly better with Precise, giving 7.2% crit on the 5pc, so similar to Sorrow, but again with worse 2-4 piece bonuses.

Really the set needs to work with both the front bar trait and the back bar infused trait. I mean fully, magnitude and duration. The fact that it ignores the main benefit of infused (cooldown reduction) seems like a bug.

Sandman929

Frostbite could be good if ZOS would just pull the trigger and make the warden magicka morphs all frost, instead of the current mixed bag of magicka and frost.
Even Necro has mix of frost, magicka and flame for some reason.
Dk Magicka morphs are full of flame damage but for some reason the other classes don't know what they are.

ESO_Nightingale

Sandman929 wrote: »

Frostbite could be good if ZOS would just pull the trigger and make the warden magicka morphs all frost, instead of the current mixed bag of magicka and frost.
Even Necro has mix of frost, magicka and flame for some reason.
Dk Magicka morphs are full of flame damage but for some reason the other classes don't know what they are.

And there is no reason NOT to do this now! it'll open up our class more to more sets, allow us to have some class synergy with our passives and it'll just lead to a better class design. we NEED this.

zvavi

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

zvavi hits the nail on the head as to where Frostbite ought to be tuned.

I would like to think that I hit the nail on all the sets , but I agree with everything else you guys said, an alternative to buffing the set is making most of the warden skills deal frost damage

Additionally I see people discussing malacath here (wrong thread) so I will cover it quick. Malacath is getting a big nerf. If you wear malacath in PvP now, your crits deal less damage than non crits (cause crit resist) which is horrible game design... And it is not strong enough to even be off meta in PvE. Malacath is in a very bad place next patch.

Tommy_The_Gun

master_vanargand wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Gaze of Sithis is too strong.
At least "Adds 10760 Armor" should be removed.
Still this will be strong.

10760 armor is in line with Malacath's Band of Brutality.

Armor gives 15 - 16-ish % dmg reduction, and brutality ring increases your dmg done by 15 - 16%, but allows crit from "auto" crit abilities, like Critical Charge, Shadowy Disguise or sets, like Mechanical Acuity.

So I don't think it is an issue. This new mythic has a huge drawback in terms of removing block mitigation (and that is A LOT of mitigation one is missing) and also you can not pair it with monster sets, since it is a helmet, and moster sets are 2nd most powerful sets in the game, right after mythics.

Gaze of Sithis does not match Malacath's Band of Brutality.
Don't you know that Gaze of Sithis has "Add 5000 Health and Add 500 Health Recovery"?

And let's math.

x = 100 [Damage]
y = 1.16 [Effect from Malacath Band of Brutality]
z = 0.837 [10760 armor from Gaze of Sithis]

(x * y) * z = 97.092

Gaze of Sithis is god mode.

Malacath ring allows to deal critical dmg now (mostly with auto-crit abilities), while Gaze of Sithis disables your block mitigation entirely and does not allow to use monster set. So it seems to have huge kiss-curse (greater than Malacath), so I guess it is ok-ish.

If people are still concer about this item, then maybe ZOS should change the "0% block mitigation" to more universal penalty, for example:
80% less block mitigation
10% roll dodge cost penalty
10% more expensive dmg shields ability

Besides, it is not like it will be BiS for every build out there. I am seriously considering what mythic to use now (if Gaze will go live as it is). I am not sure if I will use Wild Hunt, Malacath or Gaze... or maybe Pale Order ? Ikd. All are cool option. And that is awesome. So I have plenty of good options and a decision to make, regarding in what direction I want to build. This is good. I do not have a clear winner and a cookie - cutter obvious choice. I can chose, to: Deal more dmg, or move faster, or be more tanky, or have great self-healing. And that is awesome.

Firstmep

Tannus15 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Heartland Conqueror
2 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
3 – Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
4 – Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
5 – Increases the effectiveness of your Weapon Traits by 100%. This does not affect Ornate or Intricate traits.

So this doubles infused?

100% enchantment cooldown reduction and 60% boost in enchantment effect.

Combined with CP passive where enchantment never needs to be recharged.

That's not how ZoS' math usually works.

So infused brings a 5 sec cool down too 2.5. Then it'll probably give u 100% of the 50% so that goes to 1.75 seconds.

Then if u used Torug, that 1.75 gets reduced by 33% or .58 bringing the cool down to 1.17 seconds

Tested on pts, only the enchantment effect gets boost part gets doubled.

I think infused might not be the absolute best for this set, i think boosting penetration thru sharpened might be better.

And the set defo needs to be double barred otherwise its just not worth it.

To give you and idea, infused wpd glyph before Heartland is 452, with Heartland its 556, only about 100 increase which is pretty weak, but thats beacuse infused starts at a low value of 30%.

Meanwhile Sharpened: W/o: 3276 w:6552. Thats like almost as much pen as 5 pc spriggans.

But to take it further, it can give another 8% healing done on powered, an extra 7%!! crit with precise etc.

So i think, sadly, infused is probably the weakest trait youd want this with.

given infused gets the least benefit, you could front bar it in theory, since pretty much every build is infused WD on the back bar.
how does this look with nirn?

In Pve sure, in pvp both powered and defending are quite popular.

It doubles the % on nirn, which means it most benefits a 2h melee weapon, and less so on staves and 1 handlers since they have lower initial flat values, especially for dw its less useful to go nirn as dw gets some of its wpd from the offhand as well.
It does allow for a lot of flexibility on dw weapons tho, like running precise offhand, this set gives 3.5 % extra crit chance on dw precise and you can still choose lets say sharpened or nirn main hand.

Infused dw get the same 60% enchantment boost as 2h weapons, but since enchants have their effects halved by base on 1 handers, this extra boost is again kinda weak, ive tested a lot of different enchantments and you get like 15% extra dmg on your glyphs, not that great.

Id say for now the best traits to boost with this:

Sharpened,precise,powered, defending and decisive.

Nirnhoned only for 2hander, but imho sharpened would likely be a much bigger dmg boost there as well.

Still lots of testing I have to do, I'll keep hammering away at it after work tonight.

relentless_turnip

I think a 40% reduction on the health and mitigation portion of gaze of sithis is totally fair.
I think even then it will still be bis for basically any bow/2h or destro/resto build.

Mitigation= 6456
Health= 3000

The penalty would then be justifiable I think.
Tbh even then it sounds busted 😂

WolfyRaps

leakypants wrote: »

Gaze of Sithis – Heavy Head
1 – Adds 5000 Maximum Health
1 – Adds 500 Health Recovery
1 – Adds 10760 Armor
1 – Reduces your Block Mitigation to 0.


I think this item would be fine if Sorc and NB didnt exist. Its downside isnt even noticeable as they barely block.

My proposal is, why not have this item disable escape tools aswell like Streak, Cloak etc, the same way Chaosball in BGs disables them?
Now that would be a real downside, especially for Sorcs and NBs.

I would agree with this proposal but how about roll dodge.. Either way you look at it this item is extremly overpowered and in its curent state only deisabling all escape mechanics, not just block, would balance it..

Much easier would be to just cut all the stats it provides at least by 50%...

Rebiludo

Shapeshifter’s Chain

Vamp ult cost = 286 - 89% = 32 ?
Vamp (stage 4) -24%
Vamp set -20%
Sorc -15%
Potentates -15%
Mythic -15%

32 ult = 5 sec (La 3/s + vamp drain 4/s). Less with weapon trait or monster set

So vamp ult 20sec uptime / 5 sec downtime = 80% uptime ?

Tommy_The_Gun

leakypants wrote: »

Gaze of Sithis – Heavy Head
1 – Adds 5000 Maximum Health
1 – Adds 500 Health Recovery
1 – Adds 10760 Armor
1 – Reduces your Block Mitigation to 0.


I think this item would be fine if Sorc and NB didnt exist. Its downside isnt even noticeable as they barely block.

Tbh. I don't think that it will be a big issue. Roll dodge has a ramping cost increase. Same with Streak. Only thing that may be problematic are dmg shields, but mag builds do not have good mobility (with only exception being mag sorc, but again, streak has ramping cost).

Just because some items synergies better with other classes it does not mean they should be removed.

Malacath's Band of Brutality for example synergies best with Warden & Nerco and other non-crit focus classes. On a NB it actually disables large part of NB's passive (as the class is crit-focus and with Malacath ring it just does not work). Even with the changes to Malacath, it will kinda same as 50% crit de-buff is huge.

I think the only mistake ZOS made is they are showing Gaze of Sithis tooltip with numbers and not %. Because once you convert the armour bonus to % it will be more or less 15% dmg reduction.

^ I am pretty sure if the tooltip was:
1 – Adds 5000 Maximum Health and 500 Health Recovery
1 – Adds 15% dmg mitigation, but reduces your Block Mitigation to 0.

No one would think that it is too strong. Also 500 Health Recovery is reduced by half in combat (so 250) and by another half in Cyrodiil (so 125). On top you can not run moster set with Gaze - another big drawback that people often disregard.

master_vanargand

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

leakypants wrote: »

Gaze of Sithis – Heavy Head
1 – Adds 5000 Maximum Health
1 – Adds 500 Health Recovery
1 – Adds 10760 Armor
1 – Reduces your Block Mitigation to 0.


I think this item would be fine if Sorc and NB didnt exist. Its downside isnt even noticeable as they barely block.

Tbh. I don't think that it will be a big issue. Roll dodge has a ramping cost increase. Same with Streak. Only thing that may be problematic are dmg shields, but mag builds do not have good mobility (with only exception being mag sorc, but again, streak has ramping cost).

Just because some items synergies better with other classes it does not mean they should be removed.

Malacath's Band of Brutality for example synergies best with Warden & Nerco and other non-crit focus classes. On a NB it actually disables large part of NB's passive (as the class is crit-focus and with Malacath ring it just does not work). Even with the changes to Malacath, it will kinda same as 50% crit de-buff is huge.

I think the only mistake ZOS made is they are showing Gaze of Sithis tooltip with numbers and not %. Because once you convert the armour bonus to % it will be more or less 15% dmg reduction.

^ I am pretty sure if the tooltip was:
1 – Adds 5000 Maximum Health and 500 Health Recovery
1 – Adds 15% dmg mitigation, but reduces your Block Mitigation to 0.

No one would think that it is too strong. Also 500 Health Recovery is reduced by half in combat (so 250) and by another half in Cyrodiil (so 125). On top you can not run moster set with Gaze - another big drawback that people often disregard.

To be honest, I'm surprised by ​the people who affirm the Gaze of Sithis.
I think "Adds 10760 Armor" or "Adds 5000 Maximum Health" should be removed.
Or change "Adds 10760 Armor" to "Major Resolve".
Gaze of Sithis is still strong in any of them.

ajkb78

Please make both proc damage and healing sets scale off a combination of max resource and damage in the same way that skills do. The current system where damage procs scale only off damage stats and healing procs scale only off max resource are difficult for everyone in one way or another: magicka toons find it difficult to stack max damage and stamina toons find it hard to stack max stamina. Furthermore the scaling excessively punishes sustain races - Breton will drop even further behind as a choice for damage dealer so this pigeonholes Bretons even more as only fit to be healers.

In fact, perhaps better still would be to have proc damage and healing scale off max resource and (damage stat + damage resource recovery), ie off max magicka and (spell damage + magicka recovery). That would remove the unnecessary penalisation of Bretons, Argonians, Wood Elves etc. but it would still keep the intent of reducing the power of procs on outright tank builds.