Feb 15 Cyrodiil Test Details

techyeshic

Jaraal wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Just a question, could we get a temporary class change token, so we all can play as Sorc during this test and switch back later, when we get proc sets back to mitigate the weaknesses of our classes? Thank you.

Alternatively I'd take a reversion of the changes to the DK Wings ability to let them reflect projectiles again. Also if Leap actually has a minimum reach it should say so in the tooltip.

One thing I've noticed during this test is that people who build tanky are even harder to kill without the added pressure of procs.

Spent 15 mins outside Roe last night on my werewolf, fighting a warden from one faction and a DK from another.... along with various other players who came and went during that time. Nobody could kill anybody else, and after a while we all ended up just standing around looking at each other, dancing, laughing and whatnot. It was fun....... but a huge waste of time. Honestly, it's not even worth the double AP if you can't kill half as many players as usual.

It's true: the weak have gotten weaker, and the strong have gotten stronger. Raising the ceiling and lowering the floor at the same time doesn't seem like a good strategy for PvP health.

No what happened is you all are used to having damage while being tanks, none of you bothered to actually build damage and give up some tankiness or use combos. I have ran into far fewer that could survive eating my damage for very long. And when I have; they're a lot easier to ignore.

The_Lex

Performance aside, it's becoming easy to see just how much proc sets were carrying people. PvP not SvS (set v set).

Jaraal

techyeshic wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Just a question, could we get a temporary class change token, so we all can play as Sorc during this test and switch back later, when we get proc sets back to mitigate the weaknesses of our classes? Thank you.

Alternatively I'd take a reversion of the changes to the DK Wings ability to let them reflect projectiles again. Also if Leap actually has a minimum reach it should say so in the tooltip.

One thing I've noticed during this test is that people who build tanky are even harder to kill without the added pressure of procs.

Spent 15 mins outside Roe last night on my werewolf, fighting a warden from one faction and a DK from another.... along with various other players who came and went during that time. Nobody could kill anybody else, and after a while we all ended up just standing around looking at each other, dancing, laughing and whatnot. It was fun....... but a huge waste of time. Honestly, it's not even worth the double AP if you can't kill half as many players as usual.

It's true: the weak have gotten weaker, and the strong have gotten stronger. Raising the ceiling and lowering the floor at the same time doesn't seem like a good strategy for PvP health.

No what happened is you all are used to having damage while being tanks, none of you bothered to actually build damage and give up some tankiness or use combos. I have ran into far fewer that could survive eating my damage for very long. And when I have; they're a lot easier to ignore.

Yes because the squishy glass cannons also are missing their proc carries, and die a lot faster as well. Tank with damage vs tank with damage will still result in the same stalemate as tank with no damage vs tank with no damage.

Skill will always separate the high APM folks from the average and bad players, regardless of what sets are used. Good players with proc sets will beat bad players with proc sets, just as good players with stat sets will beat bad players with stat sets all day long. Proc sets don't help you kill players who are using rocks, stairs, and other line of sight strategies.... or players who know how to cancel, block, dodge, etc. Good players know better than to suicide on a Thews tank, bad players will keep killing themselves regardless.

The same people who were scoring high last week are the same people who are scoring high this week.

caperb

PC EU Grey host is unplayable now.

LarsS wrote: »

There are various forms of lag in Cyro, some types may be reduced by the test’s others are not ZOS related.
1. Lag spikes when skills do not go off and bugs like the slow bug appears as well as crashes. These lag spikes have a higher probability with locked server, but only appears randomly, sometimes also outside of big fights.
2. Lag dependent on the number of players in the instance, especially when there are many players at the same place, skills will not go off or are delayed. This type of lag is always present.
3. Lag, which is individual, hitting specific players for various reasons, this lag is sometimes fixed by restarting the computer and/or internet connection. It also seems to hit people randomly with no clear pattern.
4. Lag, due to bad internet connections or low-capacity computer. These persons always have lag and will not be able play on locked servers, without severe lag.
5. Lag, due to addons, especially harvesting and trading addons. This can be fixed by running without addons.
Type 4 and 5 lags are not related to ZOS. I am no expert so I don’t know if type 3 is related to ZOS but my guess is that its largely internet related. This leave type 1 and 2 that ZOS should fix. The previous test cycle tested aoe skills and group sizes, most players and ZOS concluded that there was a limited reduction in type 1 lag. Presently we are testing the effect of “proc sets”, In my guild many see substantial improvement regarding type 2 lag but type 1 is still there.

I have also noted that many included me like the fights we have now in cyro, more than when the proc sets are around. There is also some clear balance changes, pugs and guild raids dominates the environment, while small scalers and bombers are largely absent.

Your zerg is crashing people again atm, outside fare MG xD

For me, I tried using boundless for 21 seconds before it popped.

Dojohoda

Dojohoda wrote: »

Gray host, PC NA, Tuesday 16th

I played ungrouped again. Some big fights were not laggy and some of the fights were very laggy. Seige was busy a few times.

17th was the same for me, ungrouped as usual. I've not disconnected and the game has not stopped responding, so far, during this test which are things that usually happen to me.

JimBobMcKrakken

With four days of playtime in Ravenwatch, I can honestly say that the game has been running smoother. It's not due to lower populations--we have been at three bars every night. You can definitely tell which guilds have been relying on proc sets. If I had to vote now I'd say leave it this way.

CSose

Balance is better, but performance is way, way worse for this test.

trustcotraptb14_ESO

Still a lag fest *** show.

Damn shame ZoS can't fix this game. It would be untouchable in the castle siege/RvR type genre, if only they could fix the *** lag.

It's been what? 7 years now? And it's still a *** show.

trustcotraptb14_ESO

JimBobMcKrakken wrote: »

With four days of playtime in Ravenwatch, I can honestly say that the game has been running smoother. It's not due to lower populations--we have been at three bars every night. You can definitely tell which guilds have been relying on proc sets. If I had to vote now I'd say leave it this way.

All the campaigns except the main 30 day have always been fine... it's the main campaign that has always has the lag problems all the way back to Auriels Bow.

techyeshic

CSose wrote: »

Balance is better, but performance is way, way worse for this test.

trustcotraptb14_ESO wrote: »

Still a lag fest *** show.

Yeah; it really seems to me even being soft locked is fine, but if there is a queue; SHTF.

I really dislike procs and love not having them; but I really am hoping some sort of change in the test to at least try something is announced soon. Its really bad in Gray Host at prime time through the week and here comes the weekend

vesselwiththepestle

Maybe 2x AP is causing lag.

Syrpynt

Maybe the storm in* TEXAS is causing lag...

React

Jaraal wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Just a question, could we get a temporary class change token, so we all can play as Sorc during this test and switch back later, when we get proc sets back to mitigate the weaknesses of our classes? Thank you.

Alternatively I'd take a reversion of the changes to the DK Wings ability to let them reflect projectiles again. Also if Leap actually has a minimum reach it should say so in the tooltip.

One thing I've noticed during this test is that people who build tanky are even harder to kill without the added pressure of procs.

Spent 15 mins outside Roe last night on my werewolf, fighting a warden from one faction and a DK from another.... along with various other players who came and went during that time. Nobody could kill anybody else, and after a while we all ended up just standing around looking at each other, dancing, laughing and whatnot. It was fun....... but a huge waste of time. Honestly, it's not even worth the double AP if you can't kill half as many players as usual.

It's true: the weak have gotten weaker, and the strong have gotten stronger. Raising the ceiling and lowering the floor at the same time doesn't seem like a good strategy for PvP health.

The last time people were actively using sets such as the ones available for this test, the average health was 23-26k. Now players in these same sets are averaging 28-35k health because it is so easy to get high HP with things like trainee, endurance, heavy armor, etc.

For the record, players did become easier to kill in 1v1 scenarios almost universally. In Xv1 scenarios, the players that are being xv1d likely seem much tankier, but that is because they are no longer taking FREE damage from tens of different proc sets. Realistically it has been so long since people needed to run damage sets for damage, that they've forgotten you need to actually set up combos and deal burst damage with multiple abilities to kill people in pvp.

Finally, if you're on a werewolf, you probably have terrible damage while also being the tankiest player in the engagement. WW gets insane sustain, insane mitigation, and one of the strongest heals in the game which happens to be a health based heal, one of the biggest offenders when it comes to the "tanky players" argument. If you're finding it hard to kill people during this test, it is likely because your WW build got the vast majority of its damage exclusively from proc sets, and you're spending most of your time light/heavy attacking still.

Jaraal

Liam12548 wrote: »

If you're finding it hard to kill people during this test, it is likely because your WW build got the vast majority of its damage exclusively from proc sets, and you're spending most of your time light/heavy attacking still.

I actually have a higher kill rate in wolf form than non wolfed, and I ran sustain / regen sets before the tests. Werewolf has it's limitations, though, which is the tradeoff. If I run damage proc sets on my wolf I get CC'd and burned down fast by the poison set meta and w/o access to a purge. Most people are not hard to kill..... but the tanky wardens and DKs (and some necros) can be.

Merforum

Merforum wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

How am I reading people saying performance is ok 😂 it is absolutely awful. Even worse than before the test. It is unplayable starting at prime time and stays that way for hours. Still awful lag at midnight lol.

Yep, unfortunately it is not only cyro. I have been crashing all night just doing dungeons, trying to enter BG and walking around stormhaven. I have never crashed this much ever, these changes are having ripple effects that are totally unacceptable.

Well for the 3rd day in a row I am crashing in simple dungeons and just walking around. Also the bg queue has been taking 30 minutes or crashed 2 times. I am not talking about simple crash were I login again and everything is OK but hard crash were I have to reboot PC.

Whatever was changed for this idiotic no-proc test was a complete failure and has wrecked not just cyro but all aspects of the game. My first 3 years playing the game I NEVER once crashed, the past couple years it has gotten progressively worse (or more correctly it will work fine for months then something changes and what breaks is worse than what was broken before).

PLEASE BACK OUT WHATEVER CHANGES YOU DID LAST WEEK IT FAILED MISERABLY.

Dojohoda

Gray Host PC NA

Performance is absolute rubbish this evening.
Playing solo again. The game is literally in the trash can, skills take a while to fire, siege is thinking about it. The game is using Memory too, up about 180% when the game disconnected.

Earthewen

Dojohoda wrote: »

Gray Host PC NA

Performance is absolute rubbish this evening.
Playing solo again. The game is literally in the trash can, skills take a while to fire, siege is thinking about it. The game is using Memory too, up about 180% when the game disconnected.

Same thing this morning. Zergs are bigger than ever. IF they were hoping to stop the large zergs, that didn't happen.

ChicagoCub

Nothing like paying so I can test your game for you. Unbelievable.

ShenaniganSquad

In Australia, pre test using WTFast, 260 ping...
during test using WTFast, 350 ping....

TEST: Fail

Tigor

Earthewen wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Gray Host PC NA

Performance is absolute rubbish this evening.
Playing solo again. The game is literally in the trash can, skills take a while to fire, siege is thinking about it. The game is using Memory too, up about 180% when the game disconnected.

Same thing this morning. Zergs are bigger than ever. IF they were hoping to stop the large zergs, that didn't happen.

Bigger fights are now possible, clearly a success. Test not fail.

Kikazaru

Balance wise, this is the most fun I have had in a long time.

Performance wise, the performance is just as bad or worse in some cases.


If ALL of the tests fail, what is ZOS going to do next?

Adernath

The balance between classes is much better without proc sets and it is really fun. Please consider disabling proc sets in PvP altogether or make a campaign in which these sets are disabled.

Mionikoi

I don't know if anyone asked or knows just yet, but is the 2 meter radius detection reduction turned of for Darloc Brae, Night Terror, and Night Mother's Embrace?

The % sneak cost redux?

techyeshic

Adernath wrote: »

The balance between classes is much better without proc sets and it is really fun. Please consider disabling proc sets in PvP altogether or make a campaign in which these sets are disabled.

They need to do it differently or try something different. Who knows? Maybe their cross healing removal had more effect than they thought? Or someone in a group I run with mentioned; without procs, a certain kind of player feels forced to bunch up more and that healing helps do that.

I really like not having procs, but the lag is really bad.

Dojohoda

PC NA Other than some bizarre rubber-banding once and a little lag, Saturday evening cyrodiil was better for me than Friday's sad sad performance. I was solo again, this time on a tanky magblade.

Adernath

techyeshic wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

The balance between classes is much better without proc sets and it is really fun. Please consider disabling proc sets in PvP altogether or make a campaign in which these sets are disabled.

They need to do it differently or try something different. Who knows? Maybe their cross healing removal had more effect than they thought? Or someone in a group I run with mentioned; without procs, a certain kind of player feels forced to bunch up more and that healing helps do that.

I really like not having procs, but the lag is really bad.

It would be interesting to see if the proc sets AND the cross-healing (outside of groups) both gets disabled.

If I would decide between both options, I would definitively go for removing proc sets altogether, as they just add so much to the imbalance between classes. Once I entered a BG after cyrodiil and it was just so less fun, where tanky builds run around all the time, not requiring any sort of defensive abilities. I understand that variation is cool, but at this point they just create a too large variety of "non-supervised" setups, some of which are cheesy enough to just spam 2 skills and be effective.

Proc sets are removing a large part of the player skill. Without these sets ALL people actually need to cast a few defensive abiliites here and there and need to think about setting up combos to burst people down.

Regarding lag:

I usually got lag whenever the entire red or blue server shows off at a certain keep (being AD from day 1). But besides of this there are also situations in which I am away of a large battle (3 factions fighting for vole), and still have lag during these times, for example during small scale or fighting resource guards. I guess this is somehow related to the servers and a final solution must also include to improving the code at its core.

nryerson1025

I wish it were only damage proc sets (sets that proc a direct dmg like selene, crimson, etc) that were disabled. Lumping sets like clever alchemist, for example, with something like crimson or plague slinger doesn't seem fair, though I do understand the former is a proc set, just not a direct damage one

Joy_Division

Kikazaru wrote: »

Balance wise, this is the most fun I have had in a long time.

Performance wise, the performance is just as bad or worse in some cases.


If ALL of the tests fail, what is ZOS going to do next?

Would not be surprised if the next test ZOS lowers population caps.

Sanctum74

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kikazaru wrote: »

Balance wise, this is the most fun I have had in a long time.

Performance wise, the performance is just as bad or worse in some cases.


If ALL of the tests fail, what is ZOS going to do next?

Would not be surprised if the next test ZOS lowers population caps.

They’ve already reduced it quite a bit through the years. Hopefully they don’t lower it anymore since it’s already hard to find good fights on a pop locked server.

techyeshic

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kikazaru wrote: »

Balance wise, this is the most fun I have had in a long time.

Performance wise, the performance is just as bad or worse in some cases.


If ALL of the tests fail, what is ZOS going to do next?

Would not be surprised if the next test ZOS lowers population caps.

They’ve already reduced it quite a bit through the years. Hopefully they don’t lower it anymore since it’s already hard to find good fights on a pop locked server.

I don't think its that hard to find good fights because of population. A lot of that is because the fights tend to mostly be in 2 spots. Usually 2 factions stacked and 1 either PvDooring or trying to split and decide which of the other faction stacks they can defend against