2740 CP to get all the PVP/Combat related passives???

Dark_Lord_Kuro

CE_Nex wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

As someone who is on 1800CP I'm loving this new system, I put the time in so I should be stronger then players at 900CP.

I 100% disagree. PvP in ESO has always been about each individual's personal ability to master the build that they have chosen to play. It's dynamic and requires practiced familiarity with skills and abilities. The idea that someone turned in more quests and killed more mobs suddenly outweighs the time put into actually mastering the craft of PvP combat (mechanics, buffs, debuffs, abilities, animations and cast times) is an absolute travesty and disservice to the PvP community.

There is nocp pvp for that

SodanTok

Since xp curve will be adjusted any current experience how "hard" it is to get to 1000,1200,...1800...2000 CP is very false. Getting 3600 CP from 0 might very much be as hard as was 1000 from 0. Unlikely but still closer to reality than thinking getting to 2000 CP in new update will be as hard as getting to 2000 now...

In any case if getting to high CP takes time all I can say... good. Time to shake things up.

Ragnaroek93

James-Wayne wrote: »

As someone who is on 1800CP I'm loving this new system, I put the time in so I should be stronger then players at 900CP.

No you shouldn't because that's not was ESO was about during the last years nor was it ever selled as that. You should pick up a vertical progression game like WoW or FF14 if that's what you care about.

jaws343

SodanTok wrote: »

Since xp curve will be adjusted any current experience how "hard" it is to get to 1000,1200,...1800...2000 CP is very false. Getting 3600 CP from 0 might very much be as hard as was 1000 from 0. Unlikely but still closer to reality than thinking getting to 2000 CP in new update will be as hard as getting to 2000 now...

I am fairly certain that they said the ease of earning CP would end around 1200, so if you are already post 1200, the CP gain will be the same for you.

relentless_turnip

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

3600 is just way too high of a cap!

While seeing players with 1000 CP is not that uncommon (I think I'm around 1300), players with 2000 are extremely rare, nevermind 3600.

Considering this new system, this will mean people will have to spend weeks and weeks of mindless grinding for CP points in order to survive PvP.

I'm sorry but you have no clue how the new CP tree works. I've spent about 6 hours figuring it all out and you do not need more then 1000 cp to be at full power in cp pvp. I put together a monster build last night and dueled tons of people for hours and I'm honestly way stronger in the pts then I am on live with the old cp system. My weapon damage went up to 6k with the new system in heavy armor. It would barely break 4k in the old system. My hp is over 40k in the new system and I had to reduce how much hp I actually had. Almost every stat aside from armor and crit resist is higher at base in comparison to the old system.

I had assumed everyone was overreacting I have done the maths on parts of the tree I need/want and it isn't as others have said. I can't remember the points I would need, but in total it was less than 1000. I will get on and try it during the EU character copy 👍

Ragnaroek93

jaws343 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Since xp curve will be adjusted any current experience how "hard" it is to get to 1000,1200,...1800...2000 CP is very false. Getting 3600 CP from 0 might very much be as hard as was 1000 from 0. Unlikely but still closer to reality than thinking getting to 2000 CP in new update will be as hard as getting to 2000 now...

I am fairly certain that they said the ease of earning CP would end around 1200, so if you are already post 1200, the CP gain will be the same for you.

It's confusing, they're talking about a power curve in the CP 1.0 system but there was no curve back at that time. It was just a flat 400k xp for every CP and got changed several times afterwards. Also 1200 is currently about the cap so the gains are slowed down, will this be the case for the new curve too? Hopefully not, because that would mean that you'd need like 1,7+ million xp per CP past 2k CP. On pts I need 670k for 810 -> 811 which still seems way too much imo.

SodanTok

jaws343 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Since xp curve will be adjusted any current experience how "hard" it is to get to 1000,1200,...1800...2000 CP is very false. Getting 3600 CP from 0 might very much be as hard as was 1000 from 0. Unlikely but still closer to reality than thinking getting to 2000 CP in new update will be as hard as getting to 2000 now...

I am fairly certain that they said the ease of earning CP would end around 1200, so if you are already post 1200, the CP gain will be the same for you.

I watched the stream I read the article yet I dont remember them confirming getting to 1201 CP (from 1200) next patch will be as hard as now. Care to link me to source?

For the record, current formula for XP needed for each CP is both calculated with cap and with arbitrary penalty for earning CP past the cap. There is no reason to believe the Cap would be 810 or 1200 or any other number than 3600 and EVEN IF there was some cap set, there is no reason to believe any of those numbers below 3600 would retain the penalty.

If formula remains the same and cap is raised to 3600 earning the last CP of 3600 cap would cost as much as last CP of 810 cap. If by some unknown reason they decided that 1200 would be the break point getting the last CP of 3600 cap would still be only as hard as getting 1600th CP point under current 810 cap.

the1andonlyskwex

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

3600 is just way too high of a cap!

While seeing players with 1000 CP is not that uncommon (I think I'm around 1300), players with 2000 are extremely rare, nevermind 3600.

Considering this new system, this will mean people will have to spend weeks and weeks of mindless grinding for CP points in order to survive PvP.

I'm sorry but you have no clue how the new CP tree works. I've spent about 6 hours figuring it all out and you do not need more then 1000 cp to be at full power in cp pvp. I put together a monster build last night and dueled tons of people for hours and I'm honestly way stronger in the pts then I am on live with the old cp system. My weapon damage went up to 6k with the new system in heavy armor. It would barely break 4k in the old system. My hp is over 40k in the new system and I had to reduce how much hp I actually had. Almost every stat aside from armor and crit resist is higher at base in comparison to the old system.

I had assumed everyone was overreacting I have done the maths on parts of the tree I need/want and it isn't as others have said. I can't remember the points I would need, but in total it was less than 1000. I will get on and try it during the EU character copy 👍

By my math, I would want 860-960 CP just in the blue tree (depending on what heals I have), meaning I would need 2580-2880 total CP.

relentless_turnip

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

3600 is just way too high of a cap!

While seeing players with 1000 CP is not that uncommon (I think I'm around 1300), players with 2000 are extremely rare, nevermind 3600.

Considering this new system, this will mean people will have to spend weeks and weeks of mindless grinding for CP points in order to survive PvP.

I'm sorry but you have no clue how the new CP tree works. I've spent about 6 hours figuring it all out and you do not need more then 1000 cp to be at full power in cp pvp. I put together a monster build last night and dueled tons of people for hours and I'm honestly way stronger in the pts then I am on live with the old cp system. My weapon damage went up to 6k with the new system in heavy armor. It would barely break 4k in the old system. My hp is over 40k in the new system and I had to reduce how much hp I actually had. Almost every stat aside from armor and crit resist is higher at base in comparison to the old system.

I had assumed everyone was overreacting I have done the maths on parts of the tree I need/want and it isn't as others have said. I can't remember the points I would need, but in total it was less than 1000. I will get on and try it during the EU character copy 👍

By my math, I would want 860-960 CP just in the blue tree (depending on what heals I have), meaning I would need 2580-2880 total CP.

Do you realise you can't use them all?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559592/cp-2-0-stars-cost-and-ability-breakdown-spreadsheet#latest

This guy's made a handy spreadsheet that shows what is available. I can't remember the number I got to on my blue tree, but it wasn't higher than 400.

jaws343

SodanTok wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Since xp curve will be adjusted any current experience how "hard" it is to get to 1000,1200,...1800...2000 CP is very false. Getting 3600 CP from 0 might very much be as hard as was 1000 from 0. Unlikely but still closer to reality than thinking getting to 2000 CP in new update will be as hard as getting to 2000 now...

I am fairly certain that they said the ease of earning CP would end around 1200, so if you are already post 1200, the CP gain will be the same for you.

I watched the stream I read the article yet I dont remember them confirming getting to 1201 CP (from 1200) next patch will be as hard as now. Care to link me to source?

For the record, current formula for XP needed for each CP is both calculated with cap and with arbitrary penalty for earning CP past the cap. There is no reason to believe the Cap would be 810 or 1200 or any other number than 3600 and EVEN IF there was some cap set, there is no reason to believe any of those numbers below 3600 would retain the penalty.

If formula remains the same and cap is raised to 3600 earning the last CP of 3600 cap would cost as much as last CP of 810 cap. If by some unknown reason they decided that 1200 would be the break point getting the last CP of 3600 cap would still be only as hard as getting 1600th CP point under current 810 cap.

From the Update 29 Combat Preview article.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559230/update-29-combat-preview/p1

Considering we haven’t raised the cap by 30 per patch in quite some time, we adjusted the CP curve to accommodate for that difference with a focus on speeding up the gain between 810 CP and roughly 1200 CP. This means you’ll gain CP levels faster at lower levels, and the rate at which you gain CP between 810 and 1200 (ish) will be slightly faster than how it is now with CP 1.0. After 1200 CP or so, the CP gain rate will feel about the same as it did in CP 1.0 once you reached higher ranks.

So post 1200, CP gain will be exactly as it is now for high CP players. 810-1200 will be faster than now.

the1andonlyskwex

relentless_turnip wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

3600 is just way too high of a cap!

While seeing players with 1000 CP is not that uncommon (I think I'm around 1300), players with 2000 are extremely rare, nevermind 3600.

Considering this new system, this will mean people will have to spend weeks and weeks of mindless grinding for CP points in order to survive PvP.

I'm sorry but you have no clue how the new CP tree works. I've spent about 6 hours figuring it all out and you do not need more then 1000 cp to be at full power in cp pvp. I put together a monster build last night and dueled tons of people for hours and I'm honestly way stronger in the pts then I am on live with the old cp system. My weapon damage went up to 6k with the new system in heavy armor. It would barely break 4k in the old system. My hp is over 40k in the new system and I had to reduce how much hp I actually had. Almost every stat aside from armor and crit resist is higher at base in comparison to the old system.

I had assumed everyone was overreacting I have done the maths on parts of the tree I need/want and it isn't as others have said. I can't remember the points I would need, but in total it was less than 1000. I will get on and try it during the EU character copy 👍

By my math, I would want 860-960 CP just in the blue tree (depending on what heals I have), meaning I would need 2580-2880 total CP.

Do you realise you can't use them all?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559592/cp-2-0-stars-cost-and-ability-breakdown-spreadsheet#latest

This guy's made a handy spreadsheet that shows what is available. I can't remember the number I got to on my blue tree, but it wasn't higher than 400.

I'm going by this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559555/cp-2-0-slottable-abilities-and-passives

Four 50 point slottables and the useful non-slottables.

nqvarihs

relentless_turnip wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

3600 is just way too high of a cap!

While seeing players with 1000 CP is not that uncommon (I think I'm around 1300), players with 2000 are extremely rare, nevermind 3600.

Considering this new system, this will mean people will have to spend weeks and weeks of mindless grinding for CP points in order to survive PvP.

I'm sorry but you have no clue how the new CP tree works. I've spent about 6 hours figuring it all out and you do not need more then 1000 cp to be at full power in cp pvp. I put together a monster build last night and dueled tons of people for hours and I'm honestly way stronger in the pts then I am on live with the old cp system. My weapon damage went up to 6k with the new system in heavy armor. It would barely break 4k in the old system. My hp is over 40k in the new system and I had to reduce how much hp I actually had. Almost every stat aside from armor and crit resist is higher at base in comparison to the old system.

I had assumed everyone was overreacting I have done the maths on parts of the tree I need/want and it isn't as others have said. I can't remember the points I would need, but in total it was less than 1000. I will get on and try it during the EU character copy 👍

By my math, I would want 860-960 CP just in the blue tree (depending on what heals I have), meaning I would need 2580-2880 total CP.

Do you realise you can't use them all?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559592/cp-2-0-stars-cost-and-ability-breakdown-spreadsheet#latest

This guy's made a handy spreadsheet that shows what is available. I can't remember the number I got to on my blue tree, but it wasn't higher than 400.

blue tree passives:

1. Soothing Tides - aoe healing
2. Swift Renewal - hots
3. Focused Mending - single target healing
4. Blessed - healing done
5. Eldricht Insight - max mag
6. Tireless Discipline - max stam
7. Precision - crit %
8. Resilience - crit res
9. Quick recovery - healing taken
10. Hardy - physical etc % mitig
11. Elemental aegis - magical etc % mitig
12. Preparation - pve % mitig
13. War Mage - spell damage
14. Mighty - weapon damage
15. Piercing - pen
16. Battle Mastery - charged for physical status effects
17. Flawless Ritual - charged for mag

they all cost 50 -> 850 points = 2550cp. without slottable, which also cost 50 each, so 1050 points for the blue tree. 3150cp.

now lets take the example of stamblade: 100% direct damage, 100% physical/disease, 100% single target. you can skip the following: soothing tides, eldricht insight, (resilience because malacath meta lolxd,) preparation, war mage, flawless ritual. you're still left with 12 perks + 4 slottables, so 2400cp

i dont know how you ended with 'less than 400 points in the blue tree' honestly

edit: and thats if you want to play with a single combination of slottables, which you probably don't want

Kredo

relentless_turnip wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

3600 is just way too high of a cap!

While seeing players with 1000 CP is not that uncommon (I think I'm around 1300), players with 2000 are extremely rare, nevermind 3600.

Considering this new system, this will mean people will have to spend weeks and weeks of mindless grinding for CP points in order to survive PvP.

I'm sorry but you have no clue how the new CP tree works. I've spent about 6 hours figuring it all out and you do not need more then 1000 cp to be at full power in cp pvp. I put together a monster build last night and dueled tons of people for hours and I'm honestly way stronger in the pts then I am on live with the old cp system. My weapon damage went up to 6k with the new system in heavy armor. It would barely break 4k in the old system. My hp is over 40k in the new system and I had to reduce how much hp I actually had. Almost every stat aside from armor and crit resist is higher at base in comparison to the old system.

I had assumed everyone was overreacting I have done the maths on parts of the tree I need/want and it isn't as others have said. I can't remember the points I would need, but in total it was less than 1000. I will get on and try it during the EU character copy 👍

By my math, I would want 860-960 CP just in the blue tree (depending on what heals I have), meaning I would need 2580-2880 total CP.

Do you realise you can't use them all?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559592/cp-2-0-stars-cost-and-ability-breakdown-spreadsheet#latest

This guy's made a handy spreadsheet that shows what is available. I can't remember the number I got to on my blue tree, but it wasn't higher than 400.

If you add up all the points required for the passives that dont need to be slotted in the blue tree you're at over 800, not even the nodes you need to unlock to access other nodes.

Nordic__Knights

James-Wayne wrote: »

As someone who is on 1800CP I'm loving this new system, I put the time in so I should be stronger then players at 900CP.

yes we should but should we be 30k less dps then we our at 810 when being 1415 ?

as it is thats what we are going to get pushed back and out of things we can do now that we WONT be able to do then just seems wrong to push as so far back when we have been held back for years already

Oreyn_Bearclaw

It seems like a very simple fix to the system would be to not require points to be split evenly among the three constellations. That would allow people to focus on combat trees first if they want to, thus curbing vertical progression at far lower CP threshold but allowing horizontal progression all they way to the cap (which is what I thought they were trying to do in the first place). It seems we have one constellation that has nothing to do with actual combat.

If someone wants to put all their points into the blue constellation, let them. It would reduce the CP requirement for a max level combat character by at least a third, and would likely make a lot of us older players in the low/mid teens of CP much happier. I can get behind needing to grind a few hundred CP to be at peak combat efficiency. But If I need to grind like 1500, I am just not sure I will keep playing. I have been at the caps since there were caps. I had 5 VR16 toons when they made the change, and I was above the CP cap when first implemented. I dont like how far they are moving the goal line at one time.

Chaos2088

Course it’s going to be a nerf slightly, you can’t give people all the power at 810 then give them more and more till 3600?? Literally could to a trial solo if that was the case. Yeah sucks that exp players have to grind more to get back to full max lvl, but the ceiling has been lifted way, way, way higher.

WrathOfInnos

Can we all agree that some of the stars are too expensive? Like Flawless Ritual requiring 100 Blue CP’s to max out. Fully investing in that one bonus requires grinding 300 CP levels.

And Piercing is now 50 blue points (150 CP levels) for 1750 penetration. A 50 point investment into the old piercing would give close to 4k penetration. I’m ok with capping it at 1750 if that’s a balance/power decision, but in that case it should cost around 20 CP’s.

And then there’s the 3% crit chance star, which used to be free when investing in other damage passives, but now requires a full 50 blue points (150 CP levels). It was increased to 3.6%, but this still only results in .07% crit chance per blue CP spent. It seems like this should cost more like 30 points (90 CP levels).

jaws343

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Can we all agree that some of the stars are too expensive? Like Flawless Ritual requiring 100 Blue CP’s to max out. Fully investing in that one bonus requires grinding 300 CP levels.

And Piercing is now 50 blue points (150 CP levels) for 1750 penetration. A 50 point investment into the old piercing would give close to 4k penetration. I’m ok with capping it at 1750 if that’s a balance/power decision, but in that case it should cost around 20 CP’s.

And then there’s the 3% crit chance star, which used to be free when investing in other damage passives, but now requires a full 50 blue points (150 CP levels). It was increased to 3.6%, but this still only results in .07% crit chance per blue CP spent. It seems like this should cost more like 30 points (90 CP levels).

The old CP system is mostly irrelevant when it comes to balancing this updated version. These CP trees are scaled around 3600 CP max, not the 810 CP we last had, which in reality was more likely scaled closer to 500 CP than 810. The expectation is you aren't maxing these out until you reach higher CP levels. Not day 1 with 810 CP and being done with all of the buffs.

pelle412

If I can't get all "power" related CPs on day 1 with my current CP level, I am totally OK with that. It gives me another reason to work towards more champion points.

Chelo

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Kodiak709 wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

The worst is that the diminishing returns are gone. The gap between max CP (1700~) to 600 CP is huge

PVPers worst nightmare... Even the gap between 1700 and 2200, for example is huge. If relatively evenly matched, the 1700 will never win because if they take all damage related CP as the 1700, they miss SO much mitigation and healing compared to the 2200. Guess the person whose spent 10 hours a day for the past year grinding CP is ready to have fun (at everyone else's expense!

thats what putting in the time should do ive always hated this way of thinking, new players or players that dont play often should be below them that put in the time its an mmo not an fps we aint all the same nor should we

Exactly. It always seen normal to me that someone who play 24/7 of course will have better stuff than someone who play 1 hour per week.

Is the same for real life, the more hours you work, train, practice, study, etc, the more money, knowledge, better, experience you will get at something.

Is just constant repetition...

montiferus

As many have said if it requires massive grinding just to get back to where you were before the update then I am out and my hope is that a ton of people also uninstall to let ZOS know how utterly stupid this is.

PS - All of these changes are moot if the performance is still complete garbage like it has been. 20FPS in trials and prime time CP PVP being unplayable for years on end is kind of laughable at this point.

itscompton

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

It seems like a very simple fix to the system would be to not require points to be split evenly among the three constellations. That would allow people to focus on combat trees first if they want to, thus curbing vertical progression at far lower CP threshold but allowing horizontal progression all they way to the cap (which is what I thought they were trying to do in the first place). It seems we have one constellation that has nothing to do with actual combat.

If someone wants to put all their points into the blue constellation, let them. It would reduce the CP requirement for a max level combat character by at least a third, and would likely make a lot of us older players in the low/mid teens of CP much happier. I can get behind needing to grind a few hundred CP to be at peak combat efficiency. But If I need to grind like 1500, I am just not sure I will keep playing. I have been at the caps since there were caps. I had 5 VR16 toons when they made the change, and I was above the CP cap when first implemented. I dont like how far they are moving the goal line at one time.

I like this idea. Giving more freedom of where to put points would really help with the drawbacks. Even if they just allowed for a certain number to be "free points" that could be put in any category. Like every time you finish a cycle of blue-green-red you get a fourth point to add anywhere, so 25% of our total points could be moved between different trees.
Right now 1000 CP is 333/333/334 but if they gave us 25% as free points it could be split 250/250/500.

SeaUnicorn

I had a quick look and healer has same issue. To get the perks that hybrid healers use - you need so much. There is one perk for proccing status effects that uses 100 cp on its own and requires at least 10 cp invested in the parent node to get to it. And you have to pick between defense, offense and healing because all of that is in the same tree, so to be efficient off-healer I need so much CP it's crazy.... Also I tried vCR today on a warden healer and with some points invested into resistances and max health and so on my toon just folds over after 1 dark drain stack. Despite much higher pool stack it feel so damn squishy >.< It is exact same toon that on live can kite easily with couple spewers following it while creepers are out and having frost. They definitely missed the mark on "more survival, less damage" cuz now it is less of everything. New CP is also absolutely not horizontal and even more vertical than is used to be... Blue tree has too much stuff and all super necessary for end game PVE as well as PVP.

katorga

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

I had a quick look and healer has same issue. To get the perks that hybrid healers use - you need so much. There is one perk for proccing status effects that uses 100 cp on its own and requires at least 10 cp invested in the parent node to get to it. And you have to pick between defense, offense and healing because all of that is in the same tree, so to be efficient off-healer I need so much CP it's crazy....

I think that is the point, want damage then give up heals and defense.

To be honest, If I were a brand new player and saw a 3600 point grind in front of me....I'd uninstall.

Env_t

@SodanTok but EXP CURVE IS NOT AJUSTED


on PTS you need x4 more EXP per CP after old 810 CP cap, same as on live

so old cap diminishing of exp still there

SeaUnicorn

katorga wrote: »

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

I had a quick look and healer has same issue. To get the perks that hybrid healers use - you need so much. There is one perk for proccing status effects that uses 100 cp on its own and requires at least 10 cp invested in the parent node to get to it. And you have to pick between defense, offense and healing because all of that is in the same tree, so to be efficient off-healer I need so much CP it's crazy....

I think that is the point, want damage then give up heals and defense.

To be honest, If I were a brand new player and saw a 3600 point grind in front of me....I'd uninstall.

But the problem is that at 2400+ CP I get it all. Whereas at 1200 (which is what they claimed where horizontal progression starts) I have to pick between surviving or healing. I fail to see how is this horizontal and closes the gap between low and high CP levels. If anything this makes it even bigger.

relentless_turnip

Apologies guys I was totally wrong about how many points you will need to be at full power.

What I have realised is you really don't need to unlock everything and am actually more excited than before. In terms of build craft this amazing for variety. For pve end gamers I can see this as a little more frustrating.

I can't wait to try this!

the1andonlyskwex

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Apologies guys I was totally wrong about how many points you will need to be at full power.

What I have realised is you really don't need to unlock everything and am actually more excited than before. In terms of build craft this amazing for variety. For pve end gamers I can see this as a little more frustrating.

I can't wait to try this!

Oh yeah, the build diversity will be great, because almost nobody will have enough CP to run meta builds, and will resign themselves to getting stomped by the few that do.

Slyclone

Nothing wrong with earning your level.

techyeshic

So how many do you actually need to slot 12 abilities and have all combat passives?

May not matter. I was starting to like no CP until they went all proc happy.