Remove the changes to armor

Xebov

The bonuses penalties added make no sense. Like OP already said every role has its armor weight thats used for (mostly) all drop armors and contains the bonuses for that role.

Tanks take Heavy. Tank gear is only dropping as heavy and heavy has the tank passives.
Healers and Mag DDs take Light. Mag DD and Healer gear is only dropping as light and light has the magicka passives.
Stamm DDs take Medium. Stam DD gear is only dropping as medium and medium has the magicka passives.

With that in mind their is no way to mix and match. The gear to do this is simply not available outside of crafting. Even if it where available the drop in relevant stats from passives would not make it worth it, espeically when keeping in mind that the gaines stats dont realy fit.

For Tanks its even worse than that. Tanks need armor for mitigation. Mixing light in to offset the mag damage malus would drop the total armor rating so it would be a worse compared to just eat the damage.

The penalties on Dodge/Block/Sprint dont fit the games reality where bosses are designed in a way that you have to Block or Dodge or Sprint in some situation with only one of them being the valid solution to prevent dying.

The idea is not thought through.

renne

Also the fact that medium armour users get off scott free without any penalties is a real kick in the teeth for people who have to use heavy or light for their builds.

renne

crazywolfpusher wrote: »

PVE wise these changes only hurt tanks with the dodge cost increase...

I'll quote myself tho

" wrote:

I believe the new bonuses and penalties should not affect mitigation values cuz armor numerical value already does that (from the armor defense itself and passives).

Affecting the core mechanics, like they said, dodge, bash, block, break free, movement speed should be enough.

Only Tanks??? Light armor mag users are hit with 15% more cost to block, this on toons that won't have a lot of spare stam as is.

ArgoCye

I like the changes for the most part. Of course, I’ll hold off from passing judgement until properly tested. Cos who makes sweeping judgements without actually testing the changes first, right?

AmendmentI

ArgoCye wrote: »

I like the changes for the most part. Of course, I’ll hold off from passing judgement until properly tested. Cos who makes sweeping judgements without actually testing the changes first, right?

It's not a sweeping judgement it's literally penalties forced on you for having a legitimate build. Penalties are penalties lol. Even if they have little impact it's still not ok for it to be forced on everyone who isn't stam "just because".

GrimTheReaper45

ArgoCye wrote: »

I like the changes for the most part. Of course, I’ll hold off from passing judgement until properly tested. Cos who makes sweeping judgements without actually testing the changes first, right?

I mean if the changes are confusing as hell from a build perspective.

Like id be fine with a straight up nerf but this is just confusing and hard to build around with how sets work

Brederode

What I don’t get is that heavy armor gets a “1% increased magicka damage taken per piece” even though its supposed to offer the best protection out of the three, and medium armor gets a “3% block cost reduction per piece” which would have made infinitely more sense on heavy armor.

Either way, I am not a fan of the penalties and some of the passive changes in general. Especially because they literally say they did it just for “PvP balancing” yet from what I could tell it doesn’t change anything/much for the PvP “balance” while it just hurts the PvE part, especially for light armor users (healers/magicka damage dealers) and heavy armor users (tanks).

Olupajmibanan

All for the stubborn idea of not balancing PvP and PvE separately. How long do we have to suffer until you realize that you absolutely should balance PvP and PvE separately????????

MrZeDark

You can do 4/3...

3 Pieces Siror, 2 Jewlery,
2 Piece Mother Sorrow, 1 jewlery, 1 staff

So it is viable to do 4/3 if you need more of something else, but a big IF.

Olupajmibanan

Just another PvE hit because of salty PvP whiners. I am not even surprised at this point.

AmendmentI

MrZeDark wrote: »

You can do 4/3...

3 Pieces Siror, 2 Jewlery,
2 Piece Mother Sorrow, 1 jewlery, 1 staff

So it is viable to do 4/3 if you need more of something else, but a big IF.

Oh you definitely can do 4/3 but it requires you to give up your 5 piece bonus. Bonuses which are usually pretty helpful to your build overall. Or in the case of some sets it's the entire reason you're wearing them in the first place. Although that's still 5 light just missing the other 5 piece bonus.

renne

MrZeDark wrote: »

You can do 4/3...

3 Pieces Siror, 2 Jewlery,
2 Piece Mother Sorrow, 1 jewlery, 1 staff

So it is viable to do 4/3 if you need more of something else, but a big IF.

You know these are both light armour sets right? That's not 4/3, that's still 5 pieces of light.

renne

Brederode wrote: »

What I don’t get is that heavy armor gets a “1% increased magicka damage taken per piece” even though its supposed to offer the best protection out of the three, and medium armor gets a “3% block cost reduction per piece” which would have made infinitely more sense on heavy armor.

Either way, I am not a fan of the penalties and some of the passive changes in general. Especially because they literally say they did it for “PvP balancing” yet from what I could it doesn’t change anything/much for the PvP “balance” while it just hurts the PvE part, especially for light armor users (healers/magicka damage dealers) and heavy armor users (tanks).

Lmao PvP "balancing" where stam remains meta and now it will just be all medium armour with heavy set weapons/jewellery for bonuses because there's no penalties to medium.

Varana

MrZeDark wrote: »

You can do 4/3...

3 Pieces Siror, 2 Jewlery,
2 Piece Mother Sorrow, 1 jewlery, 1 staff

So it is viable to do 4/3 if you need more of something else, but a big IF.

Errr... both Siroria and MS are light armour.

OtarTheMad

Varana wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

You can do 4/3...

3 Pieces Siror, 2 Jewlery,
2 Piece Mother Sorrow, 1 jewlery, 1 staff

So it is viable to do 4/3 if you need more of something else, but a big IF.

Errr... both Siroria and MS are light armour.

Julianos is crafted

renne

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

You can do 4/3...

3 Pieces Siror, 2 Jewlery,
2 Piece Mother Sorrow, 1 jewlery, 1 staff

So it is viable to do 4/3 if you need more of something else, but a big IF.

Errr... both Siroria and MS are light armour.

Julianos is crafted

What does Julianos have to do with someone saying you can use Siroria and Mother's Sorrow for 4/3?

NoSoup

Maybe they need to change the transmute system so that you can transmute a set piece into any weight armour....

renne

NoSoup wrote: »

Maybe they need to change the transmute system so that you can transmute a set piece into any weight armour....

That's one of those "good in theory" things, but then everyone would just transmute most armour into medium because it has no penalities.

GrimTheReaper45

renne wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

Maybe they need to change the transmute system so that you can transmute a set piece into any weight armour....

That's one of those "good in theory" things, but then everyone would just transmute most armour into medium because it has no penalities.

I mean even then you still have the passive perks to worry about.

Like this whole thing just makes building and gear a lot more confusing for players. There is ways to build with this in mind but there not good ways and those ways really arnt supported well in game with how gear and 5 pc set bonus and roles work. To make use of it your going to have mismatched sets that arnt interchangeable with gear on other character and thats always a hassle.

Arwyr

NoSoup wrote: »

Maybe they need to change the transmute system so that you can transmute a set piece into any weight armour....

yo, that would actually be sick! maybe they'll work that in at some point, it makes sense with these changes and the collection system

the1andonlyskwex

I think the changes might encourage more 7/0/0 builds, but like others have said, most people are still going to be wearing two 5-piece sets of the same weight, so they won't be dropping below 5 pieces of whatever their primary armor is.

Also, I don't really understand the reasoning for making light and heavy opposites instead of light and medium. It seems like having light be for magic damage and medium for physical would be a lot more consistent with how those damage types are handled otherwise. Similarly, it seems like heavy armor should be prioritizing defense at the expense of offense, not messing around with giving magic damage vulnerability.

Kittytravel

I think the bonuses and penalties are a good step in the direction of build freedom.

However I think if they continue taking this direction they should remove any tie-in the armor has to combat and make it just armor-based benefits. Leave all the extra stuff into Weapon/Class lines.

This would make each armor choice have unique benefits and drawbacks while ensuring you actually have real build freedom to choose your sets and armor types that don't interfere with combat decisions.

GrimTheReaper45

Arwyr wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

Maybe they need to change the transmute system so that you can transmute a set piece into any weight armour....

yo, that would actually be sick! maybe they'll work that in at some point, it makes sense with these changes and the collection system

The problem with that is a lot of sets are designed and balanced with weight in mind. For example magsorc runs light armor because of the max mag on sets like necro, alfiq mainly for shields. If you switch those to heavy then you have a shield about the same size with the resistance of heavy as shields factor in resistence now. That would be one of the most broken build eso has ever seen and would make the pre nerfmire shields look like a joke lol


Honestly without the 5 pc requirement for crit and pen on light passives in place i dont see why a magsorc couldnt run a 3-4 heavy on big pcs for resist and 4-3 light with like shackle breaker and alfiq or necro. Shackle really isnt used because of the shield nerf but its crafted and with all the added resist to them and shields and around half the crit and pen. That would probably be broken.

Thats a perfect example of why this thing isnt thought out

DonGodJoe

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It seems like having light be for magic damage and medium for physical would be a lot more consistent with how those damage types are handled otherwise. Similarly, it seems like heavy armor should be prioritizing defense at the expense of offense, not messing around with giving magic damage vulnerability.

COMPLETELY AGREE

Tanks at first shouldnt be doing any strong nor average damage, they are supposed to handle the damage taken.

Mauin

Brederode wrote: »

What I don’t get is that heavy armor gets a “1% increased magicka damage taken per piece” even though its supposed to offer the best protection out of the three, and medium armor gets a “3% block cost reduction per piece” which would have made infinitely more sense on heavy armor.

Either way, I am not a fan of the penalties and some of the passive changes in general. Especially because they literally say they did it just for “PvP balancing” yet from what I could tell it doesn’t change anything/much for the PvP “balance” while it just hurts the PvE part, especially for light armor users (healers/magicka damage dealers) and heavy armor users (tanks).

This, basically. I main a tank in PvE and the heavy armor changes are just making me go wtf. I'd take 7% increased magic damage, be slower when sprinting, and have a 21% increased cost to dodge roll. Excuse me, what? That makes absolutely zero sense. Heavy armor was the tank armor, meant for, y'know, taking less damage and now we're taking MORE for wearing it? And the dodge roll cost increase is just... Ick. I can't even find the words for that.

If all these changes are being made because of PvP, then include them in Battle Spirit instead of throwing PvE under the bus. Just balance them separately for the love of the gods. It's so frustrating dealing with this patch after patch.

renne

The increased dodge roll cost and being slower sprinting make sense because it's heavy armour. HEAVY.

Taking more damage on the other hand makes absolutely no sense because you're having more protection, unless they think because your armour is metal it conducts elemental damage (in which case "magic" damage shouldn't be a thing because what even is magic damage meant to be).

xaraan

The armor changes are very... meh. Not bad, but not well done either. Like I see what they were trying to do, I just don't think they pulled it off.

Red_Feather

I like the changes because it feels more like an rpg and less like a 'this is the way we should do things just because we have already for so long' meta. This game needs changes like this to drive away the old ruts.

AmendmentI

Red_Feather wrote: »

I like the changes because it feels more like an rpg and less like a 'this is the way we should do things just because we have already for so long' meta. This game needs changes like this to drive away the old ruts.

But theres nothing you can actually change when we cant change our weights...... what is it driving away when we still have to wear armor in the same weights

Starlock

Brederode wrote: »

What I don’t get is that heavy armor gets a “1% increased magicka damage taken per piece” even though its supposed to offer the best protection out of the three, and medium armor gets a “3% block cost reduction per piece” which would have made infinitely more sense on heavy armor.

This would be an excellent change before this rolls out, if the intention is to keep some elements of this system. Makes a lot more sense, great suggestion!