Undaunted: People stealing Event Tickets and Reward Boxes

amapola76

Ariont wrote: »

The easiest and best way to solve this issue is for everyone at the beginning ask if anyone is on the quest and if anyone is opposed to a speed run for tickets. And I would advise anyone who gets paired up with 3 level 810's to actually say something when asked.

Of course, the problem here is that long before you can actually get those words typed, some people are halfway to the end boss.

I literally loaded into Arx Corinium the other day and the 810s in the group had already run so far ahead of me that I could never catch up (although I died trying). And I don't have a laggy computer, it took less than 30 seconds from the ready check to loading in.

As far as OP is concerned, I strongly disagree with suggestion #2, but I do sympathize with what you're saying. Although I prefer to run the full thing, it never bothers me to skip ahead if others in the group want to. But just yesterday, for the first time ever, one player ran so far ahead of the rest of us that we all got the tickets/box, but we were maybe 2 seconds away from missing out by the time we caught up. It's *** behavior. But there are unfortunately a small percentage of players who are *** people. It's just the luck of the draw.

amapola76

SpiritofESO wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Stealing means that something already in someone's possession is being taken from their possession. In this context, stealing event tickets would be a user hacking someone's account somehow to remove event tickets from their event currency to transfer it to their own. I thought this thread was going to be about some new hack, which would be a very serious issue. What you are describing is not "stealing."

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." ~ William Shakespeare, Henry VI.

So, enough with all the "legal" talk.

I'm a lawyer. What he's doing there is not "legal talk," it's just being pedantic and ignoring the main point.

doomette

I think it’s annoying and inconsiderate too, but yeesh some of the suggested solutions are so awful I can’t help but think they’re motivated more by petty spite than by coming up with a solution that works for everyone. 😬

Minyassa

Someone earlier in this thread already described in detail what happens when you're a more squishy or just much slower player getting left behind by the stam toons and gods forbid if they have Wild Hunt rings on too. It's shortsighted to try to tell people to "just keep up." I've been in the position of having a slow toon and getting caught up in masses of mobs that the stam people just zinged on through, getting clipped, slowed more, or outright stunned or frozen in place several times, while out of stamina entirely from trying to sprint while also having to occasionally roll dodge or break free. When we are on fast stam toons, we can't SEE what is going on five halls behind us with the slow people. We're up front looking where we're going. There is no way that anyone who knows how dungeons actually work would ever seriously tell someone "just run after." They try. It doesn't help if they have disadvantages a faster or more agile toon does not have.

You can read the responses in this thread and very clearly see who has empathy and who does not. FYI, lacking empathy is not a positive trait. Nobody expects everyone who plays this game to be in it to become best buds with everyone they group with, but asking people not to be raging bags of dirks is not an unreasonable request.

spartaxoxo

Minyassa wrote: »

You can read the responses in this thread and very clearly see who has empathy and who does not. FYI, lacking empathy is not a positive trait. Nobody expects everyone who plays this game to be in it to become best buds with everyone they group with, but asking people not to be raging bags of dirks is not an unreasonable request.

Someone disagreeing with you that this is a difficult task doesn't mean they lack empathy. People have different thoughts about the best way to play the game, that's all.

SeaGtGruff

Minyassa wrote: »

You can read the responses in this thread and very clearly see who has empathy and who does not.

In my view, it isn't a question of empathy per se, because you can have empathy towards some people but not towards others. It's true, though, that "[y]ou can read the responses in this thread and very clearly see who" leans one way or the other as far as who they have empathy and tolerance towards.

The real issue is selfishness versus selflessness-- that is, whether each player insists on putting their own personal goals and wishes ahead of the group's, or whether they agree to go with the majority's goals and wishes as far as how quickly or slowly to run the dungeon. And yes, with a four-player group it's possible to have a tie rather than a majority.

But if anyone just runs ahead as soon as they enter the dungeon, without even waiting to hear what the majority wants to do, then it's crystal clear that they fall in the selfish category and the rest of the group needs to decide very quickly whether to run along and catch up or vote to kick the offending player.

Unfortunately, this works the other way around, too-- if three players immediately run ahead but the fourth one lags behind to accept the quest, then the rest of the group needs to decide very quickly whether to slow down and wait or vote to kick the offending player.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

People have different thoughts about the best way to play the game, that's all.

That's true. But the problem arises when someone feels that their personal thoughts about the best way to play the game are better than anyone else's thoughts about the best way to play the game.

PS -- I might actually be the epitome of selfishness, in the sense that I prefer to do as much of the content solo as possible, including group content such as group dungeons. And I'm not suggesting above that being selfish is necessarily "bad"-- as long as you're by yourself and your decisions and actions aren't running contrary to a group that you've voluntarily joined. So if you want to play selfishly, play solo. And if you choose to play in a group, don't play selfishly.

stefj68

Last nite happend to elden hollow 1 to a guild mates,
guy posted as a tank
didnt stop for the new comer to get hte update quest
let us die to trash mobs
kill final boss and left

we didnt get undaunted chest / tickets
didnt get quest completed
totally wasted of my ambrosia pots

fake tanks are an issue
10 transmute for a random seems to rise up for those kind of behaviours
and now the event is adding another layer of stupidity for some

thanks for the events
we still enjoy it

Cryptical

These people that are so upset over unusual conditions for the easiest quickest dungeons during this event, they make me wonder....

Are they also the same people that try to cross the street during the Macy's thanksgiving day parade, and getting upset that the street is bloked?

Are they also the same people that try to go do food shopping on black friday and get upset over crowded stores?

Are they also the same people that get a craving for cold cuts on super bowl sunday and get upset that there's a super huge crowd surrounding the deli counter?

amapola76

amapola76 wrote: »

SpiritofESO wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Stealing means that something already in someone's possession is being taken from their possession. In this context, stealing event tickets would be a user hacking someone's account somehow to remove event tickets from their event currency to transfer it to their own. I thought this thread was going to be about some new hack, which would be a very serious issue. What you are describing is not "stealing."

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." ~ William Shakespeare, Henry VI.

So, enough with all the "legal" talk.

I'm a lawyer. What he's doing there is not "legal talk," it's just being pedantic and ignoring the main point.

Tangent, but... people always use the Shakespeare quote above but having never actually read or seen the play, don't realize that the whole point is that the bad guy is saying it because he wants to do bad guy things, and knows that the lawyers are standing in his way.

In other words, it's actually intended as praise of lawyers, not a critique.

Edited to add: as with the original, on-topic debate over dungeon etiquette, context is everything.

Shokti

I admittedly didn't read every single post here but I think that yes, the final boss should remain lootable, AND can't you just vote to kick the person whose doing this? It's very annoying I agree, but you can't lock ppl out just b/c they are CP 810. I run normals every day on my CP810. I am not part of this type of behavior, I just want to get my daily normal out of the way like everyone else. It's not right to ban upper-level players.....Also, as much as it sucks you can also leave the group and start over

VaranisArano

Cryptical wrote: »

These people that are so upset over unusual conditions for the easiest quickest dungeons during this event, they make me wonder....

Are they also the same people that try to cross the street during the Macy's thanksgiving day parade, and getting upset that the street is bloked?

Are they also the same people that try to go do food shopping on black friday and get upset over crowded stores?

Are they also the same people that get a craving for cold cuts on super bowl sunday and get upset that there's a super huge crowd surrounding the deli counter?

Low level players really don't have much of a choice.

Consider that, first, they have very few dungeons unlocked. One of the first three unlocked is FG1, the easiest, fastest dungeon. The other dungeons that unlock early are naturally also easier and faster.

Then consider that a lot of players, including many speedrunners, are specifically queuing for easy, fast dungeons, especially FG1.

The end result is that a lot of speedrunners and a lot of newer, low level players end up in the same dungeon.

Even CP 810 players like myself who queue using the random normal sometimes get pulled into a run with a speedrunner simply because between speedrunners and low level players, there's a lot of players doing those easy, fast dungeons.


And I think its more that most players realize there's an event on, but that doesn't preclude showing basic politeness like not sprinting ahead and killing the boss before your group mates get there.

If I have to go food shopping on a busy day, I can handle the crowds. But I'll give you the stinkeye if you are jerkish enough to cut in line. Like, you know what polite behavior is and the expectations for how you treat others don't change because you feel like you are in a rush.

Magdalina

While I do think that rushing to and especially killing the final boss while your teammates are stuck somewhere far behind is kind of rude...I find it highly amusing that there's quite a few people here who first complain that some people are selfish and inconsiderate of others' playstyle, then suggest to kick people whose playstyle doesn't match with theirs from their groups. Double standards much?

Personally, I like doing my dungeons slow, with reading every npc line and every scratch of paper I can find - for the first time anyway. I get my own groups together for that (or just 2 man normal, easy). However, since I've run most dungeons (especially vanilla dungeons) about 100500 times, I'm no longer interested in that and if no one speaks up, I just might rush and pull everything (on my dps too - if I know I can handle it). I'll wait at pledge bosses though, it's just mean to kill them without group members present. If I end up in group of like 3 lvl 10s (unlikely given I tend to pug vet dungeons) I'll probably ask if anyone needs quest, but other than that, it's kind of on the person needing quest/slower going to speak up.

LadySinflower

This happened to me and I am an 810. Needed to run a dungeon fast as it was late and the day would turn over soon. Wanted to get my event tickets. I queued for nFG1. The four of us got in the dungeon and I followed as they all took off running as per usual for a PUG. But the healer and tank ran right by every boss after war chief Ozozai, leaving the other dps and me to fight them. As we approached the final boss we saw that it was dead. There was no loot for us. They had left group and disconnected or just gone into offline status so we couldn't tell them off. We could not complete the dungeon. In that case they did rob me of my tickets because I didn't have time to queue for another run before the day turned over. I am an 810 and I was not the perpetrator here. Forcing me to run only vet content would keep me out of dungeons altogether. I'm not that good a player.

LadySinflower

I play both and will do it on both. I don't engage bosses unless I can handle them by myself for that reason.

Also strongly disagree that it should be on the vet player to ask every single dungeon whether or not they can play efficiently. If you need a slower run, it's on you to speak up. You can't expect people to gimp themselves or open themselves to verbal abuse constantly just so you don't have to say anything.

I will absolutely go very slowly when someone wants to hear the story. When a new dungeon comes out, sometimes I even advertise a story run and will pick up some noobs in zone to slowly walk through the story. But that is 1 run out of a 100, and I don't think it's unreasonable that this 1 out of 100 person is expected to ask for help if they need it.

Or better yet, ZOS should add a story mode to dungeons already.

OK, when is the person supposed to say "hey, I need to go slow?" The group ports in and you take off like you were shot from a slingshot. The noob is trying to grab the quest and the others are now torn between who to stay with. By the time the inexperienced player figures out what you did and types his request to slow down into group chat, you've killed Ozozai and have jumped off the waterfall. By the time you see his message, if you have your chat hud active, you're approaching the final boss yourself and decide "they're just being petty and refusing to follow me." The other two players' whereabouts are unknown but you decide to be magnanimous and give them all ten seconds to appear. Meantime the inexperienced person is dying to trash mobs because he has no idea what he's doing, the other two are killing bosses that you skipped even though you assumed everybody would know what you were doing when you took off. After your generous ten second wait for everyone else to show up, you kill the final boss and leave, feeling justified in your actions because "I did wait [10 whole seconds] for them."

I'm coming back at you because you've been the most outspoken here defending the behavior of rushing ahead. You actually sound like you have more integrity than many others, but what I want to point out to everybody here is the need for communication.

When four people arrive in a dungeon, "surprise!" they have four different ideas about how to go about it. If you have a headset / mic but they don't, and you say "hey I want to do a speed run, does everybody know how to skip the unneeded bosses?" they can usually hear you. Not everybody knows to jump the waterfall or where on that bank you can actually jump up, since it all looks impossible (still using fungal grotto for an example). If you throw that out there and somebody needs the quest, they will likely tell you.

What's so bad about talking to these other 3 people you're supposed to work with to clear this dungeon? Last night I had a tank and healer take off and kill the final boss (in nFG1) without even bothering with the war chief. They didn't say anything, they did it and suddenly left the group before we had any idea what they had done, and we didn't get our clear. I just don't understand people like that. If they wanted to two-man it all they had to do was group and port in together. Why involve us at all?

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Two points here that I'm making. Communication in dungeons is a good thing. And I don't understand how I'm supposed to think anything but "what a couple of class A jerks" when people pull the kind of stuff I experienced in FG1 last night, and that we've all been talking about here.

renne

Last night I had a tank and healer take off and kill the final boss (in nFG1) without even bothering with the war chief.

The rest of your post is absolutely on point, but I just want to point out I don't think it's possible not to kill the war chief, because there's an impassible door you have to kill him to pass. Which is nitpicky of me, but jesus, if people have figured out how to circumvent that, that'll be even worse for the folks doing the quest because killing him and the last boss is all you need to get it done.

Avoranti

I’d say, if the group leaves you behind either leave the group or catch up. Dungeons have speed run achievements so players will always be able to speed through a dungeon. That won’t change.

If you’re doing the quest, speak up. Let the group know. If the player running ahead is not the tank, let them pull all the aggro and die. You have a tank for a reason.

MentalxHammer

It's the undaunted event dude. If youre in fg1 and not speed running to the last boss you're doing it wrong. Imo it's actually selfish of you to expect a slow fg1 run during these 10 days

Wolfkeks

Suggestion 1 (bug fix): Killed bosses should always stay lootable pls

I like this option also. That would also fix the problem you have when you crash mid-dungeon and port back only to find out that your group is done.

Coatmagic

Suggestion 1 (bug fix): Killed bosses should always stay lootable pls

+1 to the above and big NO to the second suggestions as has been stated, many max cp are not ready for vet, so just no.

People who use group finder then ignore the group are just rude, sadly, there seem to be a lot of them, but they are not restricted to ESO (and if you think ESO dungeons are hard to catch the group in you should take a peek at some other games dungeons.)

Sadly random is random, and as it's been said a bazillion times over already, if you don't want to deal with the maybe's then you should make your own group and avoid the tool (pun intended!)

This one refuses to use finder at all, and if she cannot solo it, then she does not see it (other than with friends).

PS: Random guild members can be just as rude as strangers, BTW.

SeaGtGruff

MentalxHammer wrote: »

It's the undaunted event dude. If youre in fg1 and not speed running to the last boss you're doing it wrong. Imo it's actually selfish of you to expect a slow fg1 run during these 10 days

I think the question of who is being "actually selfish" depends on majority versus minority.

The original post in this thread was about a single player who ran ahead and left the other three members of the group behind, causing them to miss out on the tickets and gold reward box. In that case, it was the speed runner who was clearly behaving in a selfish manner, putting their own personal interests and desires ahead of the rest of the group.

If three members of the group take off like a rocket and leave the fourth member behind, then it falls on that fourth member to either keep up, drop out, or try their best to get through on their own.

But no, there is no reasonable defense of the lone member who runs ahead and leaves everyone else behind, screwing them out of their rewards from the final boss. That lone speed runner is being selfish-- no ifs, ands, or buts.

SeaUnicorn

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

Unlike OP there are noobie players out there who are actually grateful for speed-run dungeons. You only need to do quest once and you run FG1 probably hundreds of times thereafter for experience and transmutes. Speed-running is time efficient. Either specify at the start that you are doing quest or follow the person who literally saves you tons of time by being efficient in their farm. Being toxic/selfish goes both ways: kicking a person who does not want to spend unnecessary time in the dungeon they did 100 times over is just as selfish as not letting noobie player to finish the quest.

Eh the group should discuss if anyone needs to do the quest. I’d a person is able to run past everything and solo the boss they should doing the run solo not in a group @SeaUnicorn

Yeah but going into dungeon solo does not grant random normal rewards, namely 10 transmute stones. And end game raiders need ALOT of those. And interestingly enough we do not get any decent transmute rewards for completing trials, otherwise we would farm that instead of random normals

spartaxoxo

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

Unlike OP there are noobie players out there who are actually grateful for speed-run dungeons. You only need to do quest once and you run FG1 probably hundreds of times thereafter for experience and transmutes. Speed-running is time efficient. Either specify at the start that you are doing quest or follow the person who literally saves you tons of time by being efficient in their farm. Being toxic/selfish goes both ways: kicking a person who does not want to spend unnecessary time in the dungeon they did 100 times over is just as selfish as not letting noobie player to finish the quest.

Eh the group should discuss if anyone needs to do the quest. I’d a person is able to run past everything and solo the boss they should doing the run solo not in a group @SeaUnicorn

Yeah but going into dungeon solo does not grant random normal rewards, namely 10 transmute stones. And end game raiders need ALOT of those. And interestingly enough we do not get any decent transmute rewards for completing trials, otherwise we would farm that instead of random normals

This. You can't do it solo and get what you need out of there.

SeaGtGruff

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

Unlike OP there are noobie players out there who are actually grateful for speed-run dungeons. You only need to do quest once and you run FG1 probably hundreds of times thereafter for experience and transmutes. Speed-running is time efficient. Either specify at the start that you are doing quest or follow the person who literally saves you tons of time by being efficient in their farm. Being toxic/selfish goes both ways: kicking a person who does not want to spend unnecessary time in the dungeon they did 100 times over is just as selfish as not letting noobie player to finish the quest.

Eh the group should discuss if anyone needs to do the quest. I’d a person is able to run past everything and solo the boss they should doing the run solo not in a group @SeaUnicorn

Yeah but going into dungeon solo does not grant random normal rewards, namely 10 transmute stones. And end game raiders need ALOT of those. And interestingly enough we do not get any decent transmute rewards for completing trials, otherwise we would farm that instead of random normals

This. You can't do it solo and get what you need out of there.

Yes, but all that's saying is that the individual who takes off, runs ahead of the rest of the group, and keeps them from being able to collect their tickets and golden reward box-- which is the specific situation that this thread was created to discuss-- is hell-bent on fulfilling their own self-centered goal of completing the dungeon as rapidly as possible so they can queue on one of their other many characters and speed-run another dungeon, then another, then another, then another, so they can farm 10 crystals per character per day. The players who are defending that behavior are suggesting that the selfishness and greed of those speed-runners is somehow more important and more legitimate than the rest of the group's desire to earn 3 tickets and a golden reward box. The other members of the group wouldn't be so pissed about the situation if they were just going to be running several more dungeons as well, or if they could easily solo the dungeon and not have to rely on being part of a group.

spartaxoxo

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

. The players who are defending that behavior are suggesting that the selfishness and greed of those speed-runners is somehow more important and more legitimate than the rest of the group's desire to earn 3 tickets and a golden reward box. The other members of the group wouldn't be so pissed about the situation if they were just going to be running several more dungeons as well, or if they could easily solo the dungeon and not have to rely on being part of a group.

But that isn't the case at all. Most people here defending it aren't defending people screwing others out of rewards. They are defending against the idea that everyone who rushes is the kind of jerk who does that, the idea that the people left behind are not contributing to their own problem, and against the idea that dungeons should be altered to prevent people from being speedy.

universal_wrath

You can always vote to kick if they started skiping bosses. I'm not sure why you didn't do it unless you were ok with it, and you are just frustrated that you coild not catch up. Another thing you could do is type in group chat that you can't keep up and they need to slow down.

Uryel

BalticBlues wrote: »

Suggestion 2 (fake player fix): I think Veteran Players (CP160+) should only be able to run Veteran Dungeons. CP810 players speedrunning beginner content as FG1 or SC1 often are destroying the dungeon experience for beginners.

No thanks. As a well over 900 CP player, I don't play vet. I don't especially like dungeons, and certainly woulndt' do them at all if i had to play them in vet. Seing that transmutation crystals can only be obtain ed that way, which is a major pain in the bottom, that would be pretty bad.

Jerks need to be punished, but fair folks who just enjoy a walk in the park every now and then shouldn't.

SeaGtGruff

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

. The players who are defending that behavior are suggesting that the selfishness and greed of those speed-runners is somehow more important and more legitimate than the rest of the group's desire to earn 3 tickets and a golden reward box. The other members of the group wouldn't be so pissed about the situation if they were just going to be running several more dungeons as well, or if they could easily solo the dungeon and not have to rely on being part of a group.

But that isn't the case at all. Most people here defending it aren't defending people screwing others out of rewards. They are defending against the idea that everyone who rushes is the kind of jerk who does that, the idea that the people left behind are not contributing to their own problem, and against the idea that dungeons should be altered to prevent people from being speedy.

Just to clarify, I don't have an issue with players who want to rush through a dungeon. I was doing that myself for the last few days of this event, because I'd grown weary of doing dungeons from top to bottom as it were, looting every container, killing every MOB and boss, etc.

But I was playing solo, not using GF. And if I had been in a group, whether using GF or going in with a premade group, I would have followed the wishes of the majority as far as whether to go slow or go fast.

I can understand players wanting to use the GF so they can farm crystals, and wanting to complete a dungeon quickly so they can farm crystals on multiple characters during whatever few hours they have free for playing the game.

I also wasn't responding to your post specifically, merely quoting it because it contained other nested quotes.

My beef, if you can call it that, is aimed at the players who have been saying things like "Every competent player speedruns through dungeons"-- which I think is BS for a number of reasons-- or "Players need to git gud so they can keep up," and who seem to be taking the stance that a single speedrunning player's goal of farming crystals should take precedence over the goals of the other three members of the group-- whatever those goals may be (tickets, reward boxes, doing the quest, etc.)-- as if the so-called "competent endgame player" is more important than the other members of the group and is somehow more worthy of pursuing his or her goals in the dungeon regardless of whether they're in line with the majority's goals.