Biggest carry of 2020

mikey_reach

If im missing anything feel free to specify.Edit- this is with a discussion with cp in mind if i had to guess its proc for no cp.

Wing

Proc sets

i vote proc, as the rest require actual player input to still make work.

proc sets require the least amount of player input to make work, thus they carry the hardest of the options.

though most proc build run malacath. . .but its the cherry on top.

mikey_reach

Werewolf

Wing wrote: »

i vote proc, as the rest require actual player input to still make work.

proc sets require the least amount of player input to make work, thus they carry the hardest of the options.

though most proc build run malacath. . .but its the cherry on top.

I agree malacath can be but isn’t always top contender i place it of course for the sake of the argument my vote went for ww be because it can even make the less skilled of players unkillable and sometimes better be because its easier to only have one bar and be op than to have two bars and be op.The fact that you can die easier with a normal build with procs than with a ww at least from what ive seen is why my vote went for ww. It is fun to use though.

Recapitated

Proc sets

mikey_reach wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

i vote proc, as the rest require actual player input to still make work.

proc sets require the least amount of player input to make work, thus they carry the hardest of the options.

though most proc build run malacath. . .but its the cherry on top.

I agree malacath can be but isn’t always top contender i place it of course for the sake of the argument my vote went for ww be because it can even make the less skilled of players unkillable and sometimes better be because its easier to only have one bar and be op than to have two bars and be op.The fact that you can die easier with a normal build with procs than with a ww at least from what ive seen is why my vote went for ww. It is fun to use though.

A bad player on werewolf who can't turn that survivability into kills isn't getting carried anywhere, as it were. With procs you can actually punch above your weight.

mikey_reach

Werewolf

Recapitated wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

i vote proc, as the rest require actual player input to still make work.

proc sets require the least amount of player input to make work, thus they carry the hardest of the options.

though most proc build run malacath. . .but its the cherry on top.

I agree malacath can be but isn’t always top contender i place it of course for the sake of the argument my vote went for ww be because it can even make the less skilled of players unkillable and sometimes better be because its easier to only have one bar and be op than to have two bars and be op.The fact that you can die easier with a normal build with procs than with a ww at least from what ive seen is why my vote went for ww. It is fun to use though.

A bad player on werewolf who can't turn that survivability into kills isn't getting carried anywhere, as it were. With procs you can actually punch above your weight.

Offensively yes but defensively its easier to kill someone with procs than a ww.

Zer0_CooL

Werewulf with malacath and procsets

TimeDazzler

Heavy attack build

No one is ready for the vatshran 2H + dolymish + malacath + explosive rebuke, petrify, DW stamDk

Taleof2Cities

Proc sets

Dizzy Swing spam is flying under the radar evidently ...

Saubon

Proc sets

Cries wrote: »

No one is ready for the vatshran 2H + dolymish + malacath + explosive rebuke, petrify, DW stamDk

Why DW tho?

mikey_reach

Werewolf

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Werewulf with malacath and procsets

Saubon wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

No one is ready for the vatshran 2H + dolymish + malacath + explosive rebuke, petrify, DW stamDk

Why DW tho?

im guessing dw is op with malacath and fossilize because of the extra 15% damage done with dw passive. Or it procs dolymesh a lot easier with what he said you can pretty much piece it together with research.

Saubon

Proc sets

mikey_reach wrote: »

im guessing dw is op with malacath and fossilize because of the extra 15% damage done with dw passive. Or it procs dolymesh a lot easier with what he said you can pretty much piece it together with research.

Oh yeah, 15% dmg it is, I was living in impression it works only for DW skills

EDIT: still I'd use crimson instead of explosive rebuke, this set looks really clunky to use

Saubon

Proc sets

btw. the sets Cries mentioned are proc sets, if he would kill me with it, death recap would show 3 procs and 1,5k HA dmg

Xiomaro

Proc sets

Proc sets are 100% the biggest carry. In zerg combat you don't even need to do anything special to get kill credit with procs.

The biggest problem at the moment is how they're the best option even if you don't need them. And part of what makes proc builds viable on non-zergling builds is Malacath.

Procs need to scale in a different way - Master's dual wield is, in my opinion, an example of a proc-like set that is well balanced. It adds less damage than the average proc but it does partially scale with stats (it is affected by crit chance/damage).

Fixing Malacath so light/medium builds are more viable on non-NB/Sorcs is super important too.

Tommy_The_Gun

Proc sets

Dmg proc sets (that do dmg for you) in particular. I have multiple of various death recaps that are basically light attack + skill and the rests of the dmg is proc set damage (2 or 3 sets) - making procest somewhere around 70 - 80% of total dame done. Stacking "free" dmg from proc sets is also a problem imho.

Nothing wrong with non-dmg proc sets, but the one that do burst damage - do more damage than skills on a fully stamina or magicka speck ton. And you can build for health & tankyness, while still keeping high burst dmg output.

Werewolf is not that simple "to carry" you as some ppl say, as in case of WW it is group environment that does it. I mean, try to play WW solo in IC or Cyro without zerg-surfing... WW solo in PvP is extremely hard to play & often unplayable.

In group however, you can eliminate a lot of WW flaws. Mainly expensive magicka heal (used on a stamina build, so WW have to hybridize a lot to have magicka sustain), or lack of purge. In group you have support / pocket healer / heal-bot etc. All of those things are being provided by group. It is very similar to "ball-group". Organized PvP groups dont have to worry about the need for a "multi-task" build, as in a group they have pretty much permanent CC immunity, purge, heal and AOE dmg.

Urzigurumash

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Nothing wrong with non-dmg proc sets

I might agree if Engine Guardian weren't targetable

Dunning_Kruger

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Dizzy Swing spam is flying under the radar evidently ...

Yeah the people that don’t complain about dizzy have RMB and dodge bound too; smh nerf dizzy a 5th time way to powahful ! Buff surprise attack. It’s instant; reduces armor; stuns; and does more damage.

katorga

mikey_reach wrote: »

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Werewulf with malacath and procsets

Saubon wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

No one is ready for the vatshran 2H + dolymish + malacath + explosive rebuke, petrify, DW stamDk

Why DW tho?

im guessing dw is op with malacath and fossilize because of the extra 15% damage done with dw passive. Or it procs dolymesh a lot easier with what he said you can pretty much piece it together with research.

DW HA are fast. Easier to land.

Urzigurumash

Cries wrote: »

No one is ready for the vatshran 2H + dolymish + malacath + explosive rebuke, petrify, DW stamDk

Sure I'll try this out once it hits Xbox, and maybe it will be OP in Cyro/IC, but in Xbox NA BGs, Doyle isn't a guaranteed proc even on a valid target (I've used it in many hundreds of BGs). Explosive Rebuke certainly sounds OP for BGs, but I'm not sold on the 2h yet - stack sets tend to be weak in BGs since you (usually) lose the stacks if you die. Granted on paper it sounds easy enough to hit max stacks before death.

Recapitated

Proc sets

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

No one is ready for the vatshran 2H + dolymish + malacath + explosive rebuke, petrify, DW stamDk

Sure I'll try this out once it hits Xbox, and maybe it will be OP in Cyro/IC, but in Xbox NA BGs, Doyle isn't a guaranteed proc even on a valid target (I've used it in many hundreds of BGs). Explosive Rebuke certainly sounds OP for BGs, but I'm not sold on the 2h yet - stack sets tend to be weak in BGs since you (usually) lose the stacks if you die. Granted on paper it sounds easy enough to hit max stacks before death.

Is doyle buggy or what?

olsborg

Proc sets

Proccsets hands down, its like ZOS puts autopilot on for ppl who pvp, "heres some free dmg for u, that cant be avoided by anyone"

The game becomes devoid of challenge and accomplishments, why bother trying to improve your gameplay...zos has given you everything on a silver platter. Proccs here and proccs there, proccs everywhere...

Sun7dance

Goregrinder

That's a loaded poll if I ever saw it lol, skill and experience isn't even on the list.

Nord_Raseri

None. If I killed them, they weren't "carried" enough by anything.

Waffennacht

Proc sets

Malacath is not a carry in of itself. Really cant be a carry when you're looking at 5% damage difference (without procs) and thats variable by class, Mundus and race.

While Proc sets provide easily 33% more damage than its stat based counter parts.

By definition the proc is far more a carry when evaluating opportunity cost: proc vs non proc you lose 33%; Malacath vs non Malacath about an average loss of 5%

mikey_reach

Werewolf

Goregrinder wrote: »

That's a loaded poll if I ever saw it lol, skill and experience isn't even on the list.

You want me to put skill and experience on the poll? How does that work skill and experience carries skill and experience?

Recapitated

Proc sets

mikey_reach wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

That's a loaded poll if I ever saw it lol, skill and experience isn't even on the list.

You want me to put skill and experience on the poll? How does that work skill and experience carries skill and experience?

Being good at the game is a huge carry dude

Dojohoda

Proc sets

Not all of them! Some Proc sets are the Carry Grant of PVP. Put on a Carry Grant proc set and bump in to the peoples, just a little tap, and the peoples will swoon to death. And maybe even send you a little whisper.

techyeshic

Proc sets

I mean; they all can be bad but mostly BECAUSE of proc sets.

mikey_reach

Werewolf

Recapitated wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

That's a loaded poll if I ever saw it lol, skill and experience isn't even on the list.

You want me to put skill and experience on the poll? How does that work skill and experience carries skill and experience?

Being good at the game is a huge carry dude

I dont think that is how you use the term “carry”. You are good then you are good you arent using anything to carry you. Your own skill and experience doesnt not carry you it can carry someone else but not yourself.

Recapitated

Proc sets

mikey_reach wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

That's a loaded poll if I ever saw it lol, skill and experience isn't even on the list.

You want me to put skill and experience on the poll? How does that work skill and experience carries skill and experience?

Being good at the game is a huge carry dude

I dont think that is how you use the term “carry”. You are good then you are good you arent using anything to carry you. Your own skill and experience doesnt not carry you it can carry someone else but not yourself.

No that's totally a carry. A carry is when a bad player punches above their weight because of some advantage they have access to, like you put proc sets on a bad player and they suddenly do great. Take a player who's bad, now make them good, bam, carried. It's clearly the exact same thing.

mikey_reach

Werewolf

Recapitated wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

That's a loaded poll if I ever saw it lol, skill and experience isn't even on the list.

You want me to put skill and experience on the poll? How does that work skill and experience carries skill and experience?

Being good at the game is a huge carry dude

I dont think that is how you use the term “carry”. You are good then you are good you arent using anything to carry you. Your own skill and experience doesnt not carry you it can carry someone else but not yourself.

No that's totally a carry. A carry is when a bad player punches above their weight because of some advantage they have access to, like you put proc sets on a bad player and they suddenly do great. Take a player who's bad, now make them good, bam, carried. It's clearly the exact same thing.

If a player that was once bad suddenly became good through nothing else but their own skill and experience that means they improved unless you are using the word carry as a synonym to improved.