Biggest carry of 2020

Ariades_swe

Proc sets

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Proc sets.
Get rid of them and the classes will be more balanced too.

I can't agree that classes will be more balanced without proc sets, at least not in all cases. Magicka Necromancer, for example, "needs" proc sets as a crutch; the offense is abysmal without them, even if you go full glass cannon. Stamina Warden, on the other hand, could shrug at a proc set nerf and go right back to being god-tier with nothing but pure stat sets. There's a huge gulf between those two classes right now, but heavily nerfing proc sets would make the gap even larger.

That doesn't mean that none of the sets need nerfs or changes, because at least some absolutely do. But it's not like addressing proc sets will bring about anything remotely close to a level playing field.

About a year ago when the meta was fury/nma there wasn't nearly as much complaint about stamdens.
Everyone griped about templars back then and to an extent stamdka.
Procs and malacath scales the best with the stamden kit cause they have a reliable healthbased spammable heal (thanks to sets like eternal vigor) so they dont need to invest in stats and can go full tankyness and hp.

In a stat based environment you wouldn' t see 40 k stamdens wrecking people left and right.
Don't get me wrong they would still be top tier but the metashift would make them more "balanced".
Mag necro are *** I agree but so are most magclasses in a solo environment due to sucky weapon skill lines.

ne.ga.kurai_ESO

Proc sets

katorga wrote: »

DW HA are fast. Easier to land.

Not anymore. They are as slow as 2H was last patch.

ivramirez

Malacath

mikey_reach wrote: »

If im missing anything feel free to specify.Edit- this is with a discussion with cp in mind if i had to guess its proc for no cp.

well proc set is one but the other one that is affecting pvp is not there. The healing problem, a healer is not supposed to be a tanker and healer at the same time. the ability to be a tanker and a massive healer takes no more that a keyboard and spamming a single key until your resources are over, that is if you get into that point, because with the mythic items you probably wont have that problem.

Bullseyebudx

Werewolf

mikey_reach wrote: »

If im missing anything feel free to specify.Edit- this is with a discussion with cp in mind if i had to guess its proc for no cp.

It's close but I think Werewolf takes the crown here with almost; 10K health recovery, 11K stun on impact with extra damage, gap closer with damage, healing with damage, and over cap resistances, you literally have everything you could possibly need to kill someone without dying.

I just threw this together in 5 mins I'm sure it could be improved.

TheBonesXXX

This thread needs Nerfbat, the Nerfbat is the one true weapon, the one true carry.

UntouchableHunter

You just forgot D Swing and Executioner....

Everybody in running. But nobody complain about it.

Berchelous

Proc sets

nerf sorc

techyeshic

Proc sets

Pretty much everything except building your actual class; unless you're a warden. Thats what I take from this thread.

JayKwellen

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

You just forgot D Swing and Executioner....

Everybody in running. But nobody complain about it.

Perhaps all those stamina guys are running it because DKs, sorcs, wardens, and necros have literally nothing else worthwhile to use?

Urzigurumash

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

You just forgot D Swing and Executioner....

Everybody in running. But nobody complain about it.

How about we revert the damage nerf to Heroic / Deep Slash, and give Major Defile back to Reverb Bash?

wheem_ESO

Urzigurumash wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

You just forgot D Swing and Executioner....

Everybody in running. But nobody complain about it.

How about we revert the damage nerf to Heroic / Deep Slash, and give Major Defile back to Reverb Bash?

Absolutely not. 1h/shield used to be pretty ridiculous, and we don't need to go back to that nonsense. Especially not with the stun from Reverb still being broken and messing up break free worse than basically any other CC in the game.

Unless 1h/shield gets some really substantial nerfs to defense and utility, which isn't likely to happen due to how badly it would affect PvE, it cannot get buffs without becoming really overpowered in PvP.

Joy_Division

This game has devolved into high health, "low damage" stats, yet crazy damage from procs.

Vanagrand

Heavy attack build

Stamden. Only class able to build over 40k health and still hit like a truck.

techyeshic

Proc sets

Joy_Division wrote: »

This game has devolved into high health, "low damage" stats, yet crazy damage from procs.

It just adds to frustration in performing as even if you buck the meta at a disadvantage; you get even more because you need to use more than 2 buttons and the more buttons you use, the less likely they all go off.

Vanagrand

Heavy attack build

1

Cathexis

Proc sets

This poll is missing a critical option which is

E) Groups.

My true vote is for (E) Groups.

Not doing well? Get in literally any group, any group at all, as long as you are the only one you never die!

TheBonesXXX

What I got from this thread and the forums as a whole is stat inflation is the culprit of it all.

Vyseman

Proc sets

Totaly Procsets with crazy High Tooltip for example Unleashed, Icy, Azurblight and much more.
Alone Malacath is fine, totaly ballanced in my Eyes.
WW are ye.. HUGE Carry by HP Rec ***.
Heavy Attack build? Naah, its soooo fockin rare to see it

relentless_turnip

Proc sets

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

What I got from this thread and the forums as a whole is stat inflation is the culprit of it all.

It isn't, it is proc sets...
Proc sets are the reason people are complaining about specific classes. If anything stat sets need buffing to be competitive with proc sets. Though I would just prefer they made proc sets scale with offensive stats. Then you couldn't stack health, health scaled heals wouldn't over perform. You couldn't kill players with next to no input.

Players would make more diverse builds in attempts to make a balanced build. I.e. you could wear one defensive set, one damage set(proc or stat) and do reasonable damage. Or 2 defensive and be a tank and do no damage. 2 damage sets and do a lot of damage. See what I mean?

Every complaint I read stems from proc sets over performing as I see it.

Jager_The_Werewolf

Proc sets

Hands down, proc sets


e) CRIMSON

swarzenegger

Proc sets

After making and playing a stamdk (malacath/alessian/vMA 2H) with only 1 procset, I must say it is way easier to play than other classes.

Making a mistake on a magsorc/stamblade (missing shield, losing shadow, wasting rally,..) gives a hard time on those classes (depending on build ofc). On a heavy armor stamdk with 5K health regen and 4K WD you can make way more mistakes while still having the "same" kill pressure with DoT's and take flight.

Knowing how to sustain and how to maintain your defensive (surviving) is a really good trait of skilled players. The fact that stamDK (and other stam classes w heavy armor) are very easy to maintain defensive and survive, makes them way easier to play for even newer players.

Not to say all stamDK mains are unskilled, but I think most will agree that any heavy armor/proc build takes less time to master/get good at and therefore carry anyone who plays it.

Xiomaro

Proc sets

swarzenegger wrote: »

After making and playing a stamdk (malacath/alessian/vMA 2H) with only 1 procset, I must say it is way easier to play than other classes.

Making a mistake on a magsorc/stamblade (missing shield, losing shadow, wasting rally,..) gives a hard time on those classes (depending on build ofc). On a heavy armor stamdk with 5K health regen and 4K WD you can make way more mistakes while still having the "same" kill pressure with DoT's and take flight.

Knowing how to sustain and how to maintain your defensive (surviving) is a really good trait of skilled players. The fact that stamDK (and other stam classes w heavy armor) are very easy to maintain defensive and survive, makes them way easier to play for even newer players.

Not to say all stamDK mains are unskilled, but I think most will agree that any heavy armor/proc build takes less time to master/get good at and therefore carry anyone who plays it.

If you think StamDK with Alessian is easy to survive with, you should see Stamcro, Stamden and Werewolves

I agree with what you're saying though. Passive defenses like high resists and health regen are much easier to play with. Active defenses (Shade, block, dodge, streak etc) can help you survive against a lot more damage but require higher skill.

Ariades_swe

Proc sets

swarzenegger wrote: »

After making and playing a stamdk (malacath/alessian/vMA 2H) with only 1 procset, I must say it is way easier to play than other classes.

Making a mistake on a magsorc/stamblade (missing shield, losing shadow, wasting rally,..) gives a hard time on those classes (depending on build ofc). On a heavy armor stamdk with 5K health regen and 4K WD you can make way more mistakes while still having the "same" kill pressure with DoT's and take flight.

Knowing how to sustain and how to maintain your defensive (surviving) is a really good trait of skilled players. The fact that stamDK (and other stam classes w heavy armor) are very easy to maintain defensive and survive, makes them way easier to play for even newer players.

Not to say all stamDK mains are unskilled, but I think most will agree that any heavy armor/proc build takes less time to master/get good at and therefore carry anyone who plays it.

[snip]
With full dot build/procs and malacath and fossilize it's a supertoxic class.
It got the best ulti to 1vX noobs as well.

Stamden is still the most op class in the game though.

[Edited to remove Naming and Shaming]

TheBonesXXX

relentless_turnip wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

What I got from this thread and the forums as a whole is stat inflation is the culprit of it all.

It isn't, it is proc sets...
Proc sets are the reason people are complaining about specific classes. If anything stat sets need buffing to be competitive with proc sets. Though I would just prefer they made proc sets scale with offensive stats. Then you couldn't stack health, health scaled heals wouldn't over perform. You couldn't kill players with next to no input.

Players would make more diverse builds in attempts to make a balanced build. I.e. you could wear one defensive set, one damage set(proc or stat) and do reasonable damage. Or 2 defensive and be a tank and do no damage. 2 damage sets and do a lot of damage. See what I mean?

Every complaint I read stems from proc sets over performing as I see it.

Procs are OP from the power they get from Malacath.

You take away the inflation from Malacath they'll suck.

Which brings me back to my original point, there's too much power in gear and cp.

Xiomaro

Proc sets

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

What I got from this thread and the forums as a whole is stat inflation is the culprit of it all.

It isn't, it is proc sets...
Proc sets are the reason people are complaining about specific classes. If anything stat sets need buffing to be competitive with proc sets. Though I would just prefer they made proc sets scale with offensive stats. Then you couldn't stack health, health scaled heals wouldn't over perform. You couldn't kill players with next to no input.

Players would make more diverse builds in attempts to make a balanced build. I.e. you could wear one defensive set, one damage set(proc or stat) and do reasonable damage. Or 2 defensive and be a tank and do no damage. 2 damage sets and do a lot of damage. See what I mean?

Every complaint I read stems from proc sets over performing as I see it.

Procs are OP from the power they get from Malacath.

You take away the inflation from Malacath they'll suck.

Which brings me back to my original point, there's too much power in gear and cp.

Procs are Malacath's scape goat.

Procs are more obviously busted but Malacath completely defines the current meta and would continue to define the meta if procs disappeared tomorrow.

wheem_ESO

Even if the Malacath Ring were to be nerfed into uselessness, certain stamina-based proc builds would still be pretty overpowered, as some of them aren't currently using the ring. That might also be true for some Magicka builds, but I'm not entirely sure.

ealdwin

Proc sets

Xiomaro wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

What I got from this thread and the forums as a whole is stat inflation is the culprit of it all.

It isn't, it is proc sets...
Proc sets are the reason people are complaining about specific classes. If anything stat sets need buffing to be competitive with proc sets. Though I would just prefer they made proc sets scale with offensive stats. Then you couldn't stack health, health scaled heals wouldn't over perform. You couldn't kill players with next to no input.

Players would make more diverse builds in attempts to make a balanced build. I.e. you could wear one defensive set, one damage set(proc or stat) and do reasonable damage. Or 2 defensive and be a tank and do no damage. 2 damage sets and do a lot of damage. See what I mean?

Every complaint I read stems from proc sets over performing as I see it.

Procs are OP from the power they get from Malacath.

You take away the inflation from Malacath they'll suck.

Which brings me back to my original point, there's too much power in gear and cp.

Procs are Malacath's scape goat.

Procs are more obviously busted but Malacath completely defines the current meta and would continue to define the meta if procs disappeared tomorrow.

That's kind of the issue, isn't it. Since Malacath's just boosts any and all damage output, it means that people are able to spec into high damage potential. It's less risky thanks to the current levels of proc sets that allow for less need to spec into damage. But, if procs were changed to scale off of offensive stats, then Malacath's would still define a high damage meta, only this time it wouldn't be a high damage with high health meta.

Proc sets need adjusted for sure, no doubt about that. This meta is horrible. Whether that's a flat damage decrease across the board or a change in how their damage is calculated, a change is needed.

But, Malacath's could also use a tweaking. I've had an idea floating around in my head that could work or be interesting. It plays more off of the brutality aspect of the name, and would look something like this:

1 item: Increases damage of your damage over time abilities by 50%. You cannot deal critical damage.

The exact % increase might be a bit too much (we wouldn't want another DoT meta), but the idea would be that the ring would be more useful on attrition/dot focused builds, and less so on pure damage builds. It would no longer be able to boost the damage of sets like Sheer Venom, nor would it boost abilities like Uppercut, thus no longer serving either the proc meta nor the high damage meta.

wheem_ESO

ealdwin wrote: »

But, Malacath's could also use a tweaking. I've had an idea floating around in my head that could work or be interesting. It plays more off of the brutality aspect of the name, and would look something like this:

1 item: Increases damage of your damage over time abilities by 50%. You cannot deal critical damage.

The exact % increase might be a bit too much (we wouldn't want another DoT meta), but the idea would be that the ring would be more useful on attrition/dot focused builds, and less so on pure damage builds. It would no longer be able to boost the damage of sets like Sheer Venom, nor would it boost abilities like Uppercut, thus no longer serving either the proc meta nor the high damage meta.

The only problem with that is that the ring would immediately become too class-specific (barring other changes to various abilities happening at the same time). For instance, even with a class passive that increases DOT damage by 15%, it's simply not possible to play a viable, non-proc DOT build in PvP on a Magicka Necromancer. Entropy and Soul Trap are just flat out garbage for damage, and the Necromancer's Tether is weak, clunky, and impossible to reliably land on anyone that hasn't either crashed out of the game or gone AFK.

I'm not necessarily against the idea of Malacath being moved to something that's more DOT-oriented, as long as there are actually more viable ways to play DOT builds without relying on procs. It may also require some nerfing of Venomous Claw, since an even bigger damage modifier on it would probably get out of control really quickly, especially on stat-focused builds.

ealdwin

Proc sets

wheem_ESO wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

But, Malacath's could also use a tweaking. I've had an idea floating around in my head that could work or be interesting. It plays more off of the brutality aspect of the name, and would look something like this:

1 item: Increases damage of your damage over time abilities by 50%. You cannot deal critical damage.

The exact % increase might be a bit too much (we wouldn't want another DoT meta), but the idea would be that the ring would be more useful on attrition/dot focused builds, and less so on pure damage builds. It would no longer be able to boost the damage of sets like Sheer Venom, nor would it boost abilities like Uppercut, thus no longer serving either the proc meta nor the high damage meta.

The only problem with that is that the ring would immediately become too class-specific (barring other changes to various abilities happening at the same time). For instance, even with a class passive that increases DOT damage by 15%, it's simply not possible to play a viable, non-proc DOT build in PvP on a Magicka Necromancer. Entropy and Soul Trap are just flat out garbage for damage, and the Necromancer's Tether is weak, clunky, and impossible to reliably land on anyone that hasn't either crashed out of the game or gone AFK.

I'm not necessarily against the idea of Malacath being moved to something that's more DOT-oriented, as long as there are actually more viable ways to play DOT builds without relying on procs. It may also require some nerfing of Venomous Claw, since an even bigger damage modifier on it would probably get out of control really quickly, especially on stat-focused builds.

Yeah, that's kind of the main problem I've had trouble figuring out when trying to suggest ideas for Malacath's that would keep it usable and desirable without making it too good not to run. Too much DoT damage and classes like DKs suddenly become overpowering. Also, wouldn't want to see any skills nerfed because of any set in particular. Sets should be about fleshing out a build, not about making skills usable.

I do agree that I'd like to see more ways to create viable DOT builds outside of proc-sets. While the DoT meta was definitely not ideal, it was nice getting to do a different rotation than Buffs -> AoE -> Spams. Doesn't help that ZOS really took a hammer to any DoT skill in the Dragonhold patch (RIP Entropy's Major Sorcery).

relentless_turnip

Proc sets

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

What I got from this thread and the forums as a whole is stat inflation is the culprit of it all.

It isn't, it is proc sets...
Proc sets are the reason people are complaining about specific classes. If anything stat sets need buffing to be competitive with proc sets. Though I would just prefer they made proc sets scale with offensive stats. Then you couldn't stack health, health scaled heals wouldn't over perform. You couldn't kill players with next to no input.

Players would make more diverse builds in attempts to make a balanced build. I.e. you could wear one defensive set, one damage set(proc or stat) and do reasonable damage. Or 2 defensive and be a tank and do no damage. 2 damage sets and do a lot of damage. See what I mean?

Every complaint I read stems from proc sets over performing as I see it.

Procs are OP from the power they get from Malacath.

You take away the inflation from Malacath they'll suck.

Which brings me back to my original point, there's too much power in gear and cp.

Totally disagree, malacath is just an additive problem. The biggest issue with procs is they require no stat investment to be effective. They just are immediately strong. They should scale with offensive stats meaning you would have to put your attributes into stamina/magicka and you could only wear one proc set for it to be as effective as it is currently. They are still very strong without malacath.

Cp is irrelevant where procs are most potent which is no cp PvP.