Timbercrow "Underwear??" - Please Change To Default Underwear Instead

Fischblut

And it seems reasonable that they put this costume (as well as the upcoming Alliance War skill XP buff recipes) on the Tel Var merchant to encourage people to play in Imperial City more. One would think they would want to make this costume as appealing as possible to the most number of players for that reason, yet I have heard plenty of feedback, both here and in game, stating that folks are shying away grinding for this item for all the reasons mentioned in this thread so far.

Exactly I had all the currency ready on live, so I could buy this costume immediately. But then EU was copied on PTS, and I tested this costume - it was awful... My IC currency is still not spent, and I have no reason to to dailies to earn more currency.
I even suspected that we would get better costume in crown store, but nothing similar was datamined so far

I saw that people list runebox with this costume for crazy prices, so I even wanted to buy the runebox and try to sell it as well. But what if designers change this costume one day and it will look awesome? I will wait, I'm very patient

Jaraal

Fischblut wrote: »

I saw that people list runebox with this costume for crazy prices, so I even wanted to buy the runebox and try to sell it as well. But what if designers change this costume one day and it will look awesome? I will wait, I'm very patient

Yes, the fact that it's tradable and sellable is another potential motivator to get folks into Imperial City to earn this runebox. Even if it's not something you would use, it has the potential to be a way to earn gold for PvPers.... which is a great concept. The fact that the prices are high is indicative of how much value people place on 50 days of gameplay to acquire a single item, since the Merits are account bound and can only be earned once every 20 hours. However, it seems to be the same players selling the same runebox, as the prices and number on the market remains steady.

Is it a result of undesirability due to the current design issues? Entirely possible. I only use the costume on a couple of my characters, and even so, I can't help but think about how much better they would look with a couple of minor adjustments.

Here is another example how it looks, for those who weren't following the previous discussions. And this is the best case scenario where the diaper's impact is minimized due to a fairly close color match. On darker skinned characters, and especially scaled and furred toons, the unnatural bottom is much more glaring:

Slyclone

Jaraal wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

It would be easier to allow it to be dyed. There is probably some rating involved to keep it from becoming a thong. The game is rated M, but there still needs to be a decency guideline.

This is actually a false dichotomy. ZOS has proven that their tolerance for showing skin in this area is significantly greater than what is revealed by the Timbercrow Wanderer's costume. Consider Almalexia's outfit for example:





Millions of people have viewed this much bottom area in the game without issue, nor has the game been shut down by the decency police.

I think this bottom treatment would be perfect for our costume.

YES. I want to pay cash for this costume right now.

I am starting to lose my patience with this company.

EclipseTheStars

Vevvev wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

EclipseTheStars wrote: »

not going to let this die

I understand but, It's dead Jim. ZOS customer service is terrible. At best you will get a 'cut-n-paste' response that barely fits your complaint, until it just gets blocked and deleted.

Especially since thread bumping is against forum rules </3

i honestly forgot about that - thx for the future heads up

EclipseTheStars

Slyclone wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

It would be easier to allow it to be dyed. There is probably some rating involved to keep it from becoming a thong. The game is rated M, but there still needs to be a decency guideline.

This is actually a false dichotomy. ZOS has proven that their tolerance for showing skin in this area is significantly greater than what is revealed by the Timbercrow Wanderer's costume. Consider Almalexia's outfit for example:





Millions of people have viewed this much bottom area in the game without issue, nor has the game been shut down by the decency police.

I think this bottom treatment would be perfect for our costume.

YES. I want to pay cash for this costume right now.

I am starting to lose my patience with this company.

i just don't understand how this costume exists but timber is the way it is; and we do have default underwear, i'm really hoping timber's rear design is a mistake - - SO un-natural

Jaraal

EclipseTheStars wrote: »

Slyclone wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

It would be easier to allow it to be dyed. There is probably some rating involved to keep it from becoming a thong. The game is rated M, but there still needs to be a decency guideline.

This is actually a false dichotomy. ZOS has proven that their tolerance for showing skin in this area is significantly greater than what is revealed by the Timbercrow Wanderer's costume. Consider Almalexia's outfit for example:





Millions of people have viewed this much bottom area in the game without issue, nor has the game been shut down by the decency police.

I think this bottom treatment would be perfect for our costume.

YES. I want to pay cash for this costume right now.

I am starting to lose my patience with this company.

i just don't understand how this costume exists but timber is the way it is; and we do have default underwear, i'm really hoping timber's rear design is a mistake - - SO un-natural

It does seem like it was rushed out there.

There has been no mention of this costume by ZOS..... not in the advertising, not in the PTS patch notes, and not in the live patch notes. And they have remained silent in all the threads started about it.

There are no Siege of Cyrodiil Merits available on the test server, other than actually grinding Imperial City dailies. The Costumer's Bag on test makes no mention of it, however, I did discover that there is a way to activate most available cosmetic items, and the Timbercrow Wanderer's costume can indeed be acquired in this manner for testing/previewing. I would have never known anything about this item, except that I happened to browsing the Tel Var merchant the day after the update went live, and saw the certificate for sale. I looked it up on the internet, and couldn't find any information about it on any of the fan sites.

So it seems like this may be some sort of test item. It has certainly sparked a lot of discussion.... although I have yet to actually see anyone other than myself wearing it in game. I get a lot of messages asking about it, though, so it's definitely an attention getter. But it's entirely possible that they just didn't get around to detailing the bottom area, since it does look more like untextured skin than any sort of undergarment. I have a hard time believing that somebody who worked on this costume actually said, "Yeah, that bottom looks great, ship it!" based upon the universal disdain for the rendering in that area. They usually do a pretty good job of making the costumes look good, which is why I believe it may indeed have been an oversight. Of course, that is just my opinion.... we have no way of knowing their thought process regarding it unless they actually communicate with us about it.

EclipseTheStars

Jaraal wrote: »

EclipseTheStars wrote: »

Slyclone wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

It would be easier to allow it to be dyed. There is probably some rating involved to keep it from becoming a thong. The game is rated M, but there still needs to be a decency guideline.

This is actually a false dichotomy. ZOS has proven that their tolerance for showing skin in this area is significantly greater than what is revealed by the Timbercrow Wanderer's costume. Consider Almalexia's outfit for example:





Millions of people have viewed this much bottom area in the game without issue, nor has the game been shut down by the decency police.

I think this bottom treatment would be perfect for our costume.

YES. I want to pay cash for this costume right now.

I am starting to lose my patience with this company.

i just don't understand how this costume exists but timber is the way it is; and we do have default underwear, i'm really hoping timber's rear design is a mistake - - SO un-natural

It does seem like it was rushed out there.

There has been no mention of this costume by ZOS..... not in the advertising, not in the PTS patch notes, and not in the live patch notes. And they have remained silent in all the threads started about it.

There are no Siege of Cyrodiil Merits available on the test server, other than actually grinding Imperial City dailies. The Costumer's Bag on test makes no mention of it, however, I did discover that there is a way to activate most available cosmetic items, and the Timbercrow Wanderer's costume can indeed be acquired in this manner for testing/previewing. I would have never known anything about this item, except that I happened to browsing the Tel Var merchant the day after the update went live, and saw the certificate for sale. I looked it up on the internet, and couldn't find any information about it on any of the fan sites.

So it seems like this may be some sort of test item. It has certainly sparked a lot of discussion.... although I have yet to actually see anyone other than myself wearing it in game. I get a lot of messages asking about it, though, so it's definitely an attention getter. But it's entirely possible that they just didn't get around to detailing the bottom area, since it does look more like untextured skin than any sort of undergarment. I have a hard time believing that somebody who worked on this costume actually said, "Yeah, that bottom looks great, ship it!" based upon the universal disdain for the rendering in that area. They usually do a pretty good job of making the costumes look good, which is why I believe it may indeed have been an oversight. Of course, that is just my opinion.... we have no way of knowing their thought process regarding it unless they actually communicate with us about it.

and that's the issue, no one is answering the topic, and without a response people are just going to be upset about it

Soraka

Saving up merits for this outfit and I have to agree. It would be a lot better if the panties weren't so...whatever it is they are.

Wolf_Eye

It really looks like skin and not clothing. That one part. Just untextured, single colored skin that does not take note of the player character's default skin color.

Araneae6537

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

It really looks like skin and not clothing. That one part. Just untextured, single colored skin that does not take note of the player character's default skin color.

Either way, that looks reeeally bad, and not less so when it is close to the character’s skin tone.

Slyclone

I am still saving up 4 million gold for it because I can't help it.

Vlad9425

Would be nice to see an official response on this. The costume was clearly released before being finished and we would all appreciate if they could fix this costume.

Jaraal

EclipseTheStars wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

EclipseTheStars wrote: »

Slyclone wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

It would be easier to allow it to be dyed. There is probably some rating involved to keep it from becoming a thong. The game is rated M, but there still needs to be a decency guideline.

This is actually a false dichotomy. ZOS has proven that their tolerance for showing skin in this area is significantly greater than what is revealed by the Timbercrow Wanderer's costume. Consider Almalexia's outfit for example:





Millions of people have viewed this much bottom area in the game without issue, nor has the game been shut down by the decency police.

I think this bottom treatment would be perfect for our costume.

YES. I want to pay cash for this costume right now.

I am starting to lose my patience with this company.

i just don't understand how this costume exists but timber is the way it is; and we do have default underwear, i'm really hoping timber's rear design is a mistake - - SO un-natural

It does seem like it was rushed out there.

There has been no mention of this costume by ZOS..... not in the advertising, not in the PTS patch notes, and not in the live patch notes. And they have remained silent in all the threads started about it.

There are no Siege of Cyrodiil Merits available on the test server, other than actually grinding Imperial City dailies. The Costumer's Bag on test makes no mention of it, however, I did discover that there is a way to activate most available cosmetic items, and the Timbercrow Wanderer's costume can indeed be acquired in this manner for testing/previewing. I would have never known anything about this item, except that I happened to browsing the Tel Var merchant the day after the update went live, and saw the certificate for sale. I looked it up on the internet, and couldn't find any information about it on any of the fan sites.

So it seems like this may be some sort of test item. It has certainly sparked a lot of discussion.... although I have yet to actually see anyone other than myself wearing it in game. I get a lot of messages asking about it, though, so it's definitely an attention getter. But it's entirely possible that they just didn't get around to detailing the bottom area, since it does look more like untextured skin than any sort of undergarment. I have a hard time believing that somebody who worked on this costume actually said, "Yeah, that bottom looks great, ship it!" based upon the universal disdain for the rendering in that area. They usually do a pretty good job of making the costumes look good, which is why I believe it may indeed have been an oversight. Of course, that is just my opinion.... we have no way of knowing their thought process regarding it unless they actually communicate with us about it.

and that's the issue, no one is answering the topic, and without a response people are just going to be upset about it

On the other hand, we could get a response along the lines of 'We are happy with how this costume is performing and have no current plans to change it.'

I'd be happy with silence, if they just added a couple of improvements on the down low. I did notice on the test server that the flaps appear to sit closer to the body than before, but it could just be wishful thinking, or the way my test character is proportioned. Maybe somebody who has this costume on both live and test can verify or deny my observation.

Vildebill

Just got the costume, and it's sure pretty disappointing. The panties definitely need a rework, my Khajiit feels pretty indecent...

fierackas

Got it today, looks good from the front but unfinished at the back!

Jaraal

Vildebill wrote: »

The panties definitely need a rework, my Khajiit feels pretty indecent...

Yeah it's unfortunate that the underwear doesn't dye along with the rest of the costume. It would look much better in blue for you. All the more so an indication that the under-area is likely just unfinished texture rather than actual costume.



Another view:




The unnatural looking diaper/missing textures certainly catch the eye and draw attention to the area. The gradual concave curve of Almalexia's outfit would look so much better and more natural than the current strange convex treatment. Also, deleting the sports bra for male characters would allow us to show our skins and body markings better.

NordSwordnBoard

It's a reverse mullet style - Party in the front, business in the back. Except the business is just bad.

bellanca6561n

shimm wrote: »

I guess it Depends what audience ZOS is going for, perhaps they’re trying to appeal to the over 65 gamers out there!

Not sure what that's supposed to mean. I'm 68 and that costume looks just dreadful from the rear...which is why I choose screenshots of it like this....



It's not going to harm the children or offend the elders if you let a sexy costume be sexy, for ****'s sake!

bellanca6561n

Jaraal wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

It would be easier to allow it to be dyed. There is probably some rating involved to keep it from becoming a thong. The game is rated M, but there still needs to be a decency guideline.

This is actually a false dichotomy. ZOS has proven that their tolerance for showing skin in this area is significantly greater than what is revealed by the Timbercrow Wanderer's costume. Consider Almalexia's outfit for example:





Millions of people have viewed this much bottom area in the game without issue, nor has the game been shut down by the decency police.

I think this bottom treatment would be perfect for our costume.

Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes! If they can show at least a hint of Lady Morrowind's butt cheeks, I should be able to display the same on my Imperial. And how old is Amalexia, exactly?

shimm

bellanca6561n wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

I guess it Depends what audience ZOS is going for, perhaps they’re trying to appeal to the over 65 gamers out there!

Not sure what that's supposed to mean. I'm 68 and that costume looks just dreadful from the rear...which is why I choose screenshots of it like this....



It's not going to harm the children or offend the elders if you let a sexy costume be sexy, for ****'s sake!

But maybe they’re thinking the sexiness is the mystery of what’s under that diaper! It could be anything!

bellanca6561n

shimm wrote: »

But maybe they’re thinking the sexiness is the mystery of what’s under that diaper! It could be anything!

Bwahahahaha!! Thank you, Shimm, for that....image

Jaraal

bellanca6561n wrote: »

I'm 68 and that costume looks just dreadful from the rear...

Actually, I think that the following your character view is the best part of the costume..... other than the strange diaper bulges on either side of the tail flap. They did a great job with the rag doll physics of how the costume moves with the character, in my opinion.

shimm wrote: »

But maybe they’re thinking the sexiness is the mystery of what’s under that diaper! It could be anything!

I typed out SO many possible dialogues in my head.... but I think that's probably best left to the individual imagination.

bellanca6561n

Jaraal wrote: »

Actually, I think that the following your character view is the best part of the costume..... other than the strange diaper bulges on either side of the tail flap. They did a great job with the rag doll physics of how the costume moves with the character, in my opinion.

(emphasis mine)

Uh, yeah, Jaraal, that's the summary of this topic

And it would be a bit of added control gymnastics to follow the character from the front. No costume would be worth that.

zaria

Jaraal wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

The panties definitely need a rework, my Khajiit feels pretty indecent...

Yeah it's unfortunate that the underwear doesn't dye along with the rest of the costume. It would look much better in blue for you. All the more so an indication that the under-area is likely just unfinished texture rather than actual costume.



Another view:




The unnatural looking diaper/missing textures certainly catch the eye and draw attention to the area. The gradual concave curve of Almalexia's outfit would look so much better and more natural than the current strange convex treatment. Also, deleting the sports bra for male characters would allow us to show our skins and body markings better.

LOL, saw you as an Argonian until I saw the tail.
And it looks worse on an Khajiit with realistic fur colors, as in the but is shaved for that baboon look

ArchMikem

Ackwalan wrote: »

It would be easier to allow it to be dyed. There is probably some rating involved to keep it from becoming a thong. The game is rated M, but there still needs to be a decency guideline.

This game shares the same rating as Mass Effect, yet in the latter we get to see uncensored breasts and butt in the love scenes. A thong is hardly more risque.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

It's clearly not even some kind of "modest underwear". It's some weird missing texture.

fierackas

It looks even worse mounted in full gallop!

bellanca6561n

Yeah, it's not about modesty. It's about consistency and quality. You start with this....

And....we've all seen what you end up with, so to speak. If modesty was remotely the intent you would not have the above view. Plus, we already have more gluteus maximus revealing attire on NPCs and in other costumes, such as the Song of the Night Ensemble. Thus it does not involve a hard taboo such as ***.

But the larger issue is customer satisfaction for an item that requires an enormous investment of either player time or player gold that cannot be previewed as crown store costumes can.

Solutions from the simple to the more involved have been proposed here, and reasonably so. There is no upside for either developer or customer for this item to remain as is.

bellanca6561n

Rather than just complain about the diaper on the Timbercrow Wanderer costume, I decided to approach it as perhaps a revelation. Instead of a mistake, or some misguided attempt at adding ludicrous modesty to sort of balance out the other aspects of an otherwise revealing costume, maybe this costume was trying to tell me something hitherto little known about the TES world.

After long consideration, I concluded that perhaps we were all wearing diapers all along! This costume so many of us are eager to dismiss as flawed was actually, and at last, revealing an important truth.

How could I come to this conclusion? Simple. There are all manner of sewers in the game, in nearly every zone. But has any of you seen a privy? Not a single means to put sewage in these sewers exists in our game world! Well of course…there’s no excrement in these sewers. Therefore there must be either diapers or little piles of excrement deposited here and there by players that we simply have never seen.

So, as an experiment, I installed a privy at my house…..



Sadly, this had no effect, alas. My character wearing the Timbercrow Wanderer costume continued to wear a diaper as well. And, I must presume, all my characters must be wearing one too.

bellanca6561n

So I wasn't exactly shocked that this costume was not fixed in this update.

Yet I'm wondering if they even can fix it.

You see, most studios try to outsource as much as they can, especially art due to the sheer expense of a fully staffed in-house art department, especially when a game is staffed by a Live Team.

And this costume just screams OUTSOURCED, especially from behind. Looks like something Woody Strode wore in Spartacus...



Except worse

Bet they did a better job with Kirk's butt....