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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811

Achievement Points Account Wide

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  • kargen27
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    dimitrisp1 wrote: »
    I like how the only argument against account wide achievements is rp and craglorn groups(bruh). I just want all my trial trifectas to be account wide... Keep the rest character wide for all I care but make high end achievements account wide. I mean come on dawnbringer is broken atm(maybe?who even knows at this point no confirmation from zos). I don't wanna grind it like 5 times that's absurd.

    It isn't may argument at all. My argument is much more simple. If a character wants to show off a title they have to earn that title. It doesn't count if another character earned part of the title.
    People argue that it is the player that earns the achievement. The player can't earn the achievement without the character though. A team effort of sorts. I wouldn't mind if there were a way for a player to share all the achievements they have accomplished over all their characters but if they want to display a title that character must have earned that title.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • richo262
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    Then have an achievement (account) and a feats (character) list.

    One affords achievements, unlocks, skins etc etc, the other affords titles.

    The title list is a bit ridiculous these days, they should cull some of the petty ones, and also remove the prior rank from the list when you get promoted. I don't think any military would allow somebody to hold a title they are clearly not, even if that title is lower than what they actually are.
    Edited by richo262 on September 13, 2020 6:26AM
  • tim99
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    about linking achievements... you know its just a text which gets transformed by the chat?
    copy this in your ingame chatbox:

    i dont have it : 
    |H1:achievement:2467:0:0|h|h

    i did it on 01.Sept.2020 : 
    |H1:achievement:2467:1:1598968290|h|h

    i will do it on 20.Sept.2020, so in exactly one week.... hope it still counts... :trollface:
    |H1:achievement:2467:1:1600618290|h|h


    but to make everyone happy, it could be an option in the settings like "combine achievments". if you click it, it shows them accountwide... if not, individual for the char.
    titles and ranks can still be only for the char who did it, like now.
    But the summary of points checks all chars.
    .
  • Iluvrien
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    Banana wrote: »
    Account wide everything please

    Account wide nothing please.
  • Treeshka
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    If you play with only one char, like me, all your achievements will be account wide.
    On the other hand, i support this idea, some achievements can be account wide or maybe there can be a sort of window where one can see the global progress that they did on the game.
  • Iron_Blurr
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    Tandor wrote: »
    Iron_Blurr wrote: »
    karthrag_inak wrote: »
    No thank you. This one likes to achieve things on his alts, that's why he has them.

    You can still do that. It will say you got the achievement on
    Alienoutlaw wrote: »
    redspecter23 wrote: »
    Account wide achievement will encourage me to play alts.

    how? surely the reason to play Alts is to get achievements and finish quest? if you already on all accounts what would be the incentive to play other Alts? think you just shot ya self in the foot there

    If you are trying to get a really hard achievement, you should be able to earn it for your account since it is YOU the player who earned it. There can be a compromise where it shows which character you got the achievement on so players can challenge themselves to still get them on every character. But what about for players that already got the achievement on that character? Why cant they continue to have their stats tracked so we can see how many times you get something on a character?
    Let's say you want master angler. Why cant it say master angler: 2 times on (This toon) and (That toon) or master angler: 2 on (this toon)

    You're effectively arguing for a summary sheet listing the achievements and which characters earned them, and that is generally supported by both sides in this sort of discussion. Having account-wide achievements is something else altogether, and would involve only one character completing say the Master Angler achievement while all the other characters on the account would have the Master Angler title without having completed the achievement. That's what players who want to run multiple characters fully in the game are opposed to, not a summary sheet.

    That sounds fine to me. I would like that summary sheet system. I just dont want to have to choose between group optimization and getting achievements on my main.
  • Xebov
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    dimitrisp1 wrote: »
    I like how the only argument against account wide achievements is rp and craglorn groups(bruh). I just want all my trial trifectas to be account wide... Keep the rest character wide for all I care but make high end achievements account wide. I mean come on dawnbringer is broken atm(maybe?who even knows at this point no confirmation from zos). I don't wanna grind it like 5 times that's absurd.

    It isn't may argument at all. My argument is much more simple. If a character wants to show off a title they have to earn that title. It doesn't count if another character earned part of the title.
    People argue that it is the player that earns the achievement. The player can't earn the achievement without the character though. A team effort of sorts. I wouldn't mind if there were a way for a player to share all the achievements they have accomplished over all their characters but if they want to display a title that character must have earned that title.

    The character wants nothing. It is you that thinks of your character as a living entitiy. In reality your Character is a tool, nothing more. It will do nothing without you thats why it isnt a team efford at all. I as the player did these things and i choose what to do with it.

    Now let me ask you this. If you are so against account achievments and having account wide titles, why are you content with dyes, personalities, skins and mounts being account wide? After all your character didnt do them. While you are heavy RP based, do you make sure that everything your character uses was actually earned on it? I bet you dont.
  • Tandor
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    Xebov wrote: »
    redspecter23 wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    only one character completing say the Master Angler achievement while all the other characters on the account would have the Master Angler title without having completed the achievement

    And that would be bad why exactly?

    It depends on a point of view with that sticking point. If you consider it the "player" who got the achievement, you likely don't have an issue with that. If you consider it the "character" then it makes no sense that an alt has Master Angler if they never fished a hole in their lives.

    I'd say neither side is wrong from their own perspective. In particular if you're a heavy role player, it might cause you a serious problem if your lawful character suddenly had access to dark brotherhood titles.

    On the other side of the argument, people that consider the account as a whole entity wonder why they have completed an achievement as a player, but have no recognition for that when they do something as simple as swapping alts. A grand overloard in pvp doesn't suddenly become horrible when they swap characters.

    I dont see it as sides. Having account wide achievments has benefits:
    - reduces load on the database which would profit everyone.
    - benefit group gameplay as players would be more inclined to play what is needed and still get their achievment
    - leads to players being more likely to play alts because they can now get all on their account

    You're not seeing it as sides, because you're only considering your point of view as illustrated by the bolded last sentence.

    People tend to want account-wide achievements either because they consider the player to be the focus, not the character (this approach being much more common with console players because of the way that console games have traditionally been structured as compared with PC RPGs), or because they just want to roll an alt for endgame and don't want to repeat all the content to get the alt there.

    People tend to want character-specific achievements not because they are necessarily role-players in any serious ways but because they are very strong on it being a role-playing game, and they don't play a main plus alts, they play multiple individual characters who they either want to play the whole game with or a different part of the game to another character - such as my assassin nightblade running the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood but my paladin templar avoiding them.

    The former may well say that having account-wide achievements would make them more likely to play alts, but the latter would say that it would deter them from playing multiple characters. What would be the point if any additional characters already had all the achievements before they've even left the character creation screen? It takes away a large chunk of the fun in replaying the game - for those who want to replay it, as opposed to just bypass it.

    With account-wide achievements you see benefits for you, I see disadvantages for me.That's why there are two sides to this topic, and it's why ZOS has balanced both approaches with some things like CPs and collections being account-wide and other things like achievements being character-specific. It's a fair compromise in my view, but should be complemented by an account-wide achievement summary listing which characters have earned which achievements so those who want to do all the achievements but only once can see when they have all been done across the account and perhaps get a new achievement for that.
  • Tandor
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    Xebov wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    dimitrisp1 wrote: »
    I like how the only argument against account wide achievements is rp and craglorn groups(bruh). I just want all my trial trifectas to be account wide... Keep the rest character wide for all I care but make high end achievements account wide. I mean come on dawnbringer is broken atm(maybe?who even knows at this point no confirmation from zos). I don't wanna grind it like 5 times that's absurd.

    It isn't may argument at all. My argument is much more simple. If a character wants to show off a title they have to earn that title. It doesn't count if another character earned part of the title.
    People argue that it is the player that earns the achievement. The player can't earn the achievement without the character though. A team effort of sorts. I wouldn't mind if there were a way for a player to share all the achievements they have accomplished over all their characters but if they want to display a title that character must have earned that title.

    The character wants nothing. It is you that thinks of your character as a living entitiy. In reality your Character is a tool, nothing more. It will do nothing without you thats why it isnt a team efford at all. I as the player did these things and i choose what to do with it.

    Now let me ask you this. If you are so against account achievments and having account wide titles, why are you content with dyes, personalities, skins and mounts being account wide? After all your character didnt do them. While you are heavy RP based, do you make sure that everything your character uses was actually earned on it? I bet you dont.

    Can you please explain, if it's you the player who earned the achievement and not your character, why are you not also lobbying for all quests completed and experience gained on one character to be allocated to all your characters? After all, you earned the experience not your character, right?

    Your reply wasn't to me, but my answer to the question at the end is that I would much prefer those things to be character-specific if they have been earned in the game as opposed to bought in the Crown Store, just as I would prefer CPs to be character-specific (or at the very least not able to be allocated before level 50). However, I respect both approaches to this topic and happily accept that ZOS have adopted a fair compromise with some things account-wide and other things character-specific. I'm not therefore looking to shift the balance towards character-specific but will oppose attempts to shift the balance the other way towards account-wide.
    Edited by Tandor on September 13, 2020 11:20AM
  • Xebov
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    Tandor wrote: »
    You're not seeing it as sides, because you're only considering your point of view as illustrated by the bolded last sentence.

    I play only a single character. I basically have account wide achievments.
    Tandor wrote: »
    People tend to want account-wide achievements either because they consider the player to be the focus, not the character (this approach being much more common with console players because of the way that console games have traditionally been structured as compared with PC RPGs), or because they just want to roll an alt for endgame and don't want to repeat all the content to get the alt there.

    Most RPGS on PC have account wide achievments. You will barely find any games that are not working that way.
    Tandor wrote: »
    With account-wide achievements you see benefits for you, I see disadvantages for me.That's why there are two sides to this topic, and it's why ZOS has balanced both approaches with some things like CPs and collections being account-wide and other things like achievements being character-specific. It's a fair compromise in my view, but should be complemented by an account-wide achievement summary listing which characters have earned which achievements so those who want to do all the achievements but only once can see when they have all been done across the account and perhaps get a new achievement for that.

    There is no balance, its just some random line drawn. Thats all. Ppl just speculate and come up with some ides why it is a good idea. But its realy not. If you need Achievments to organize your characters than you also need seperate unlocks per character. Otehrwise you are just a arguing for convenience on a random drawn line.
  • Iluvrien
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    Xebov wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    dimitrisp1 wrote: »
    I like how the only argument against account wide achievements is rp and craglorn groups(bruh). I just want all my trial trifectas to be account wide... Keep the rest character wide for all I care but make high end achievements account wide. I mean come on dawnbringer is broken atm(maybe?who even knows at this point no confirmation from zos). I don't wanna grind it like 5 times that's absurd.

    It isn't may argument at all. My argument is much more simple. If a character wants to show off a title they have to earn that title. It doesn't count if another character earned part of the title.
    People argue that it is the player that earns the achievement. The player can't earn the achievement without the character though. A team effort of sorts. I wouldn't mind if there were a way for a player to share all the achievements they have accomplished over all their characters but if they want to display a title that character must have earned that title.

    The character wants nothing. It is you that thinks of your character as a living entitiy. In reality your Character is a tool, nothing more. It will do nothing without you thats why it isnt a team efford at all. I as the player did these things and i choose what to do with it.

    Now let me ask you this. If you are so against account achievments and having account wide titles, why are you content with dyes, personalities, skins and mounts being account wide? After all your character didnt do them. While you are heavy RP based, do you make sure that everything your character uses was actually earned on it? I bet you dont.

    I absolutely would be happy if everything was character specific. I don’t even use the outfit system, I make multiple characters learn the same motif so they can craft for themselves. I hate that CP and dyes are shared.

    I go to some pains to make sure that no character takes advantage of abilities that they would not normally have.

    The only things I consider at account level are those things applied at account level, e.g. the original loyalty programme after PC launch where being subbed had rewards.
  • Rungar
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    i think the achievement system is underutilized BECAUSE its limited to character only. Very few people are going to do all that on more than one character and as such the system is largely ignored by nearly all players even though its a wonderful system.

    You always have to take into account the general behavior of players. If account wide achievements would multiply the number of people actively using the system then i would say its a good thing. An even better thing is to tie other systems so there is some tangible advantage to using it.


    It's 0.0666 of a second to midnight.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • idk
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    dimitrisp1 wrote: »
    Why not collectables then? Or skins? Why titles specifically? Cause that's how SWTOR did it? Don't get how that's a counter argument. Guess the actual problem is that you only get a title for high end achievemenets and for only one character at that.(oh yea and an ugly mount, who could forget) If you got something cool that's account wide and a title I could see how the title would be character specific.

    SWTOR did not have skins. The only drop reward from raids outside of titles was mounted that were not bound until used. So if you are advocating that skins be tied to the characters that earned them just like the titles I can get behind that.
  • Dragonnord
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    [snip] If you get it with your tank, healer or dps, then you get the achievement with ONE of them.

    Want it with the 3 of them? Then go get the achievement with the 3 roles.

    Same with classes, if you want it with your magdk, stamdk, magsorc, stamsorc, magblade, stamblade, magcro, stamcro, magden and stamden, then go get the achievement with each of them.

    Each role has a different task, each class has different skills to learn and use. You may be a great tank but you may stink as healer or dps. You may be great with your magsorc but you may stink with your stamden.

    ALL of the roles and ALL of the classes are COMPLETELY different. Your tank has nothing to do with your healer and your magdk has nothing to do with your stamblade.

    Leave achievement points, per character, as they are now.

    We have enough cheating in this game as to cheat achievement points too.
     
    [Edited to remove Baiting and Rude Comments]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on September 13, 2020 2:23PM
    SERVER: NA | PLATFORM: PC | OS: Windows 10 | CLIENT: Steam | ESO PLUS: Yes
  • Xebov
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    Dragonnord wrote: »
    [snip]

    [snip]
    Dragonnord wrote: »
    ALL of the roles and ALL of the classes are COMPLETELY different. Your tank has nothing to do with your healer and your magdk has nothing to do with your stamblade.

    According to your argument we should also do this: Next time you change jobs you shouldnt have your previous experiences counted because all the companies and working positions are different. Maybe we could extend this to drivers licenses as well? I mean after all stuff is different and if its not the same it shouldnt count right? I hope you get the hint on how bad that argument is.

    [Edited to remove reference to removed content]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on September 13, 2020 2:24PM
  • RebornV3x
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    How about this have achievements be account wide but have titles be character bound might be a reasonable compromise if possible to program.
    Xbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
    I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.
  • Cryptical
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    Dragonnord wrote: »
    [snip] If you get it with your tank, healer or dps, then you get the achievement with ONE of them.

    Want it with the 3 of them? Then go get the achievement with the 3 roles.

    Same with classes, if you want it with your magdk, stamdk, magsorc, stamsorc, magblade, stamblade, magcro, stamcro, magden and stamden, then go get the achievement with each of them.

    Each role has a different task, each class has different skills to learn and use. You may be a great tank but you may stink as healer or dps. You may be great with your magsorc but you may stink with your stamden.

    ALL of the roles and ALL of the classes are COMPLETELY different. Your tank has nothing to do with your healer and your magdk has nothing to do with your stamblade.

    Leave achievement points, per character, as they are now.

    We have enough cheating in this game as to cheat achievement points too.
     
    [Edited to remove Baiting and Rude Comments]

    So all gear should be character bound?

    If you want to make tank food you have to do it on that tank, right? Provisioning is per character, so if you want jugged rabbit on more than one character then each character has to learn it, eh? No more buying food from traders, stop being lazy and make it yourself on that character! (End snark)

    Sheesh. No.

    It’s not laziness. It’s simple convenience and quality of life.

    I’ve already mentioned that there’s a bit of negative feeling when I look toward doing new content because the character I like playing most is not the same character I have most of the achievements on.
    Xbox NA
  • MornaBaine
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    redspecter23 wrote: »
    Account wide achievement will encourage me to play alts. I wouldn't have to worry about which toon is working toward a specific achievement when I want to do a dungeon or other activity.

    While some achievements lend themselves to character specific, many are just not feasible to be completed on each toon. Once you have achievements that just can't be reasonably completed on every toon, you push achievement hunters to one "main" toon in order to hunt those achievements, which limits their character choices.

    ESO has been set up for a long time now to be very alt friendly. Dailies being per toon. CP being account wide. Achievements go against that theme and it feels a bit odd.

    Exactly this. I love alts and I like to do different content on different characters. But I hate having to remember who has what achievements when say I'm decorating a house and I want to buy a specific furnishing achievement. It DOES force me to do EVERYTHING on one character and I really hate that. And I REALLLY don't want to grind things like the Psyjic (sp! I know!) Order on every single character or feel like I'm missing out on the portals anytime I play a different character. It's increadibly annoying.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • Xebov
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    RebornV3x wrote: »
    How about this have achievements be account wide but have titles be character bound might be a reasonable compromise if possible to program.

    Why should titles be character bound there is realy no reason for this.

    If you run a specific title 80-90% of the players you meet will never even read it. Of the few that do most will not know what the title means. A title is nothing else than showing a personal identity and like with everything personal most other ppl dont care.

  • MornaBaine
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    dimitrisp1 wrote: »
    I like how the only argument against account wide achievements is rp and craglorn groups(bruh). I just want all my trial trifectas to be account wide... Keep the rest character wide for all I care but make high end achievements account wide. I mean come on dawnbringer is broken atm(maybe?who even knows at this point no confirmation from zos). I don't wanna grind it like 5 times that's absurd.

    It isn't may argument at all. My argument is much more simple. If a character wants to show off a title they have to earn that title. It doesn't count if another character earned part of the title.
    People argue that it is the player that earns the achievement. The player can't earn the achievement without the character though. A team effort of sorts. I wouldn't mind if there were a way for a player to share all the achievements they have accomplished over all their characters but if they want to display a title that character must have earned that title.

    I'd be fine with that. I just don't want to play character shuffle any time I want to buy a furnishing. I think keeping the titles for characters who earned the achievement would be nice.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • Sirona_Starr
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    redspecter23 wrote: »
    Account wide achievement will encourage me to play alts. I wouldn't have to worry about which toon is working toward a specific achievement when I want to do a dungeon or other activity.

    While some achievements lend themselves to character specific, many are just not feasible to be completed on each toon. Once you have achievements that just can't be reasonably completed on every toon, you push achievement hunters to one "main" toon in order to hunt those achievements, which limits their character choices.

    ESO has been set up for a long time now to be very alt friendly. Dailies being per toon. CP being account wide. Achievements go against that theme and it feels a bit odd.

    I COMPLETELY agree. My main is my achievement toon, so I restrict all my alternate characters from doing things (possibly able to do them better), so I don't have split achievements. I am happy to report that today, after 5 years, my alts can now kill mammoths and wamasu :smiley:
  • Weesacs
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    I can see both points of view therefore give people the option when creating alts.

    Win win situation for everyone.
    High Elf Templar
    PS4 - EU - DC
    Over 37,500 Achievements!
  • DigitalHype
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    Dragonnord wrote: »
    No, please! If your easy-mode Magblade got Flawless Conqueror that doesn't mean your rotten and dusty Stamden can have it too.

    I know a lot, and I mean, a lot of people that change to meta constantly so they can complete things because they can't with other classes.

    So no, leave Achievement Points as they are now, please.
     

    The above is a fallacy. You are still thinking of it in terms of a character-based achievement. The OP is asking for achievements to be earned by the account. In your example neither the "easy-mode Magblade" nor the "rotten and dusty Stamden" got the achievement. @player got the achievement. The character they used becomes irrelevant.
  • DigitalHype
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    Iluvrien wrote: »
    Banana wrote: »
    Account wide everything please

    Account wide nothing please.

    Separate ESO+ subscriptions for each character? Got it. You work for ZoS, right?
  • Iluvrien
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    DigitalHype wrote: »
    Iluvrien wrote: »
    Banana wrote: »
    Account wide everything please

    Account wide nothing please.

    Separate ESO+ subscriptions for each character? Got it. You work for ZoS, right?

    And the intentionally misrepresenting an argument for comedic effect award goes to....
    Edited by Iluvrien on September 13, 2020 4:18PM
  • AlnilamE
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    dimitrisp1 wrote: »
    I like how the only argument against account wide achievements is rp and craglorn groups(bruh). I just want all my trial trifectas to be account wide... Keep the rest character wide for all I care but make high end achievements account wide. I mean come on dawnbringer is broken atm(maybe?who even knows at this point no confirmation from zos). I don't wanna grind it like 5 times that's absurd.

    Actually, one thing you guys are not taking into account is that ESO was designed with character-based achievements in mind. If they swap to account-based, then you'll have things that games with account-based achievements and multiple classes also have, namely, achievements that are class-based.

    So you'll have trial Trifecta achievements for EACH CLASS, with likely a master-achievement for completing it on all classes.

    Also, the achievements to kill things would jump from killing 50-300 things to killing about 10k of them (Like Black Desert has, for example).
    The Moot Councillor
  • redspecter23
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    AlnilamE wrote: »
    dimitrisp1 wrote: »
    I like how the only argument against account wide achievements is rp and craglorn groups(bruh). I just want all my trial trifectas to be account wide... Keep the rest character wide for all I care but make high end achievements account wide. I mean come on dawnbringer is broken atm(maybe?who even knows at this point no confirmation from zos). I don't wanna grind it like 5 times that's absurd.

    Actually, one thing you guys are not taking into account is that ESO was designed with character-based achievements in mind. If they swap to account-based, then you'll have things that games with account-based achievements and multiple classes also have, namely, achievements that are class-based.

    So you'll have trial Trifecta achievements for EACH CLASS, with likely a master-achievement for completing it on all classes.

    Also, the achievements to kill things would jump from killing 50-300 things to killing about 10k of them (Like Black Desert has, for example).

    This is definitely a consideration to an extent. If they were to change to account wide, i would suspect that some achievements would change in the process. Perhaps some would become more time consuming and some might become less so just due to the nature of account wide. Monster trophies generally become easier overall if you have alts as they all progress a common goal. Kill X achievements become easier for the same reasons. All characters are contributing. If you only play one toon currently, you earn these achievements faster than someone that splits time between 2 or more toons currently. If they move the goalpost when adding account wide achievements, you get the reverse situation where someone that previously had to kill 50 things now has to kill 500 things. If you have 10 toons you play evenly, you end up the same as before. In general, it's 50 kills each. If you only play one toon, now you have to kill 10 times as many things.

    It's a tricky situation to balance out well. I'd be interested to see which stance ZOS would take if they ever decided to make a move to account wide.
  • Xebov
    Xebov
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    Iluvrien wrote: »
    DigitalHype wrote: »
    Iluvrien wrote: »
    Banana wrote: »
    Account wide everything please

    Account wide nothing please.

    Separate ESO+ subscriptions for each character? Got it. You work for ZoS, right?

    And the intentionally misrepresenting an argument for comedic effect award goes to....

    You miss his point.

    This is a complicate topic. Some want Achievments to be account wide, others dont. The complicated part is that many Achievment unlocks are already account wide like dyes, pets, styles, skins and personalities. While the Achievments and Titles are not. This also brings up an odd situation. You can use achievment furnishings on every character, but you can only buy them on the ones that have the Achievment. Its realy some random line drawn in the sand. There is no actual argument to why it should stay this way other than personal taste and given the arguments some ppl put up the question from him is very valid.
  • Xebov
    Xebov
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    redspecter23 wrote: »
    It's a tricky situation to balance out well. I'd be interested to see which stance ZOS would take if they ever decided to make a move to account wide.

    What do you want to balance here? You shove it over and be done with it. There is no reason to overcomplicate anything.
  • redspecter23
    redspecter23
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    Xebov wrote: »
    redspecter23 wrote: »
    It's a tricky situation to balance out well. I'd be interested to see which stance ZOS would take if they ever decided to make a move to account wide.

    What do you want to balance here? You shove it over and be done with it. There is no reason to overcomplicate anything.

    I'm positive there would be more to it than that, but I listed a few examples as did the poster above me. ZOS could just port it over, but there is obviously coding behind the scenes that needs to be done. I'd expect they would make changes when it gets ported based on the new balance involved.
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