Achievement Points Account Wide

redspecter23 · September 2020

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Account wide achievement will encourage me to play alts.

how? surely the reason to play Alts is to get achievements and finish quest? if you already on all accounts what would be the incentive to play other Alts? think you just shot ya self in the foot there

Say I'm working on trifecta achievements on my main, a tank. I have no death and speed, but still need hard mode. There is a group running hard mode, but they already have a tank. Account wide achievements would allow me to join that group on an alt, work toward my achievement and assist the group. As it's set up now, I can still help them on an alt, but now my trifecta progress is split between two toons.

ok so your tank is decent you know your stuff....lets say that you join a group they hav a tank and healer you come in on a DPS never done that dungeon/trial before as a DPS not even done a parse and you suck because of it does your tanks achievement's warrant your place in the group? i would say a hard NO!

I think we're arguing two separate situations here. My example assumes that I'm competent on both tank and dps. I play them both well enough to qualify for the content. Perhaps I'm even running it with guildmates that are aware of my skill set ahead of time. My argument was that I personally would be encouraged to play my alt if the progress was account wide. I stand by this statement.

then do them on both! a tank is not a dps and vice versa

Still

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

why? so a if your in crag you can link an Achievement to get into a trial you have never run on that character or role? this should NEVER be considered as an option. far to many ppl with "carry's" getting into groups with no clue what to do as it is. this suggestion will only make it worse

If I've cleared vSS on my Templar, are you suggesting that I have no clue how to clear it on my nightblade?

If your concern is about carries, then an achievement (on any toon) loses all meaning anyway.

Depends, do they play the same role? Because just because you cleared something as a dd doesn't mean you know how to clear it as a tank.

That doesn't matter in this context. I can clear it on a templar (as a healer), swap it to dps spec and link the achievement. I'm now in a group on a dps and have never cleared it on a dps before. The system isn't set up to link an achievement for a role, only for a toon in general.

of coarse it matters, a tanks roll is very different to a DPS and very different to a healer, clearing content on one does not mean you are able or knowledgeable enough to run on an ALt

You're right, but it also has nothing to do with my original argument.

I am encouraged to play alts if achievements are account wide.

My personal skill level with any given role doesn't change the truth of that statement. It may change my success rate, but not my goal.

yes it does change because your skill in each role is what determines your achievements!

1. Your achievement is not tied to your role at all, either currently or under any proposal here.
2. Characters can, and often do, respec roles.
3. I can earn an achievement on a dps, swap that character to a healer. I now have the achievement on a healer, having never run the content on an actual healer before. I can earn Godslayer on a healer, respec to dps and now have that achievement on a dps character that may never top 20k on a training dummy. The system doesn't track roles.

redspecter23 · September 2020

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

put a DPS in a fully spec'd tank/healer with BIS gear and skills slotted and ask them to perform to the standard needed for the clear they got as a DPS........cant be done

Strawman

that the best argument you have? "strawman" because you have no counter

I stand by that statement. It is all that needs to be said when the situation arises. There is no logical counter to an illogical argument.

Alienoutlaw · September 2020

Thechuckage wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

put a DPS in a fully spec'd tank/healer with BIS gear and skills slotted and ask them to perform to the standard needed for the clear they got as a DPS........cant be done

Show on the achievement where is says I cleared this as a DPS, or tank

there at mo character bound, so according to you my tank should share my flawless conqueror? would that not send the wrong impression if i joined a trail with a tank that only just hit cp?

Alienoutlaw · September 2020

redspecter23 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

put a DPS in a fully spec'd tank/healer with BIS gear and skills slotted and ask them to perform to the standard needed for the clear they got as a DPS........cant be done

Strawman

that the best argument you have? "strawman" because you have no counter

I stand by that statement. It is all that needs to be said when the situation arises. There is no logical counter to an illogical argument.

its you that has the " illogical" argument hence the cut off to protect your self from further scrutiny

redspecter23 · September 2020

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

put a DPS in a fully spec'd tank/healer with BIS gear and skills slotted and ask them to perform to the standard needed for the clear they got as a DPS........cant be done

Strawman

that the best argument you have? "strawman" because you have no counter

I stand by that statement. It is all that needs to be said when the situation arises. There is no logical counter to an illogical argument.

its you that has the " illogical" argument hence the cut off to protect your self from further scrutiny

I've made my position clear. Anything further would only serve to derail the thread.

Thechuckage · September 2020

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

put a DPS in a fully spec'd tank/healer with BIS gear and skills slotted and ask them to perform to the standard needed for the clear they got as a DPS........cant be done

Show on the achievement where is says I cleared this as a DPS, or tank

there at mo character bound, so according to you my tank should share my flawless conqueror? would that not send the wrong impression if i joined a trail with a tank that only just hit cp?

You are aware that charters can be respecc'd, right? I can turn a dunmer mDK into a imperial Tank, with no issue.

So I ask again, where does it show how someone cleared the content.

To accommodate your argument- Brand new CP level charcter. With proper gear ready and all appropriate skill points slotted. Why shouldn't that geared out, ready to raid character not go on the trial? (hint - its real possible to do that with an alt)

Tandor · September 2020

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

No thank you. This one likes to achieve things on his alts, that's why he has them.

You can still do that. It will say you got the achievement on

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Account wide achievement will encourage me to play alts.

how? surely the reason to play Alts is to get achievements and finish quest? if you already on all accounts what would be the incentive to play other Alts? think you just shot ya self in the foot there

If you are trying to get a really hard achievement, you should be able to earn it for your account since it is YOU the player who earned it. There can be a compromise where it shows which character you got the achievement on so players can challenge themselves to still get them on every character. But what about for players that already got the achievement on that character? Why cant they continue to have their stats tracked so we can see how many times you get something on a character?
Let's say you want master angler. Why cant it say master angler: 2 times on (This toon) and (That toon) or master angler: 2 on (this toon)

You're effectively arguing for a summary sheet listing the achievements and which characters earned them, and that is generally supported by both sides in this sort of discussion. Having account-wide achievements is something else altogether, and would involve only one character completing say the Master Angler achievement while all the other characters on the account would have the Master Angler title without having completed the achievement. That's what players who want to run multiple characters fully in the game are opposed to, not a summary sheet.

Xebov · September 2020

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

put a DPS in a fully spec'd tank/healer with BIS gear and skills slotted and ask them to perform to the standard needed for the clear they got as a DPS........cant be done

Show on the achievement where is says I cleared this as a DPS, or tank

there at mo character bound, so according to you my tank should share my flawless conqueror? would that not send the wrong impression if i joined a trail with a tank that only just hit cp?

Achievment links are not bound to a character. You can relink the Achievment from another player. You can also relink it from another character of yours. You can also respec your character. The Achievment just says that you done it. It doesnt Track your role. It doesnt say if you are even able to do it again or if it was just fools luck. It says nothing about your capabilities. Its just "done". So it doesnt make any difference if its character based or account based at all. It just might be important to you for a specific reason, but other than that Achievments bear no significance.

Xebov · September 2020

Tandor wrote: »

only one character completing say the Master Angler achievement while all the other characters on the account would have the Master Angler title without having completed the achievement

And that would be bad why exactly?

redspecter23 · September 2020

Xebov wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

only one character completing say the Master Angler achievement while all the other characters on the account would have the Master Angler title without having completed the achievement

And that would be bad why exactly?

It depends on a point of view with that sticking point. If you consider it the "player" who got the achievement, you likely don't have an issue with that. If you consider it the "character" then it makes no sense that an alt has Master Angler if they never fished a hole in their lives.

I'd say neither side is wrong from their own perspective. In particular if you're a heavy role player, it might cause you a serious problem if your lawful character suddenly had access to dark brotherhood titles.

On the other side of the argument, people that consider the account as a whole entity wonder why they have completed an achievement as a player, but have no recognition for that when they do something as simple as swapping alts. A grand overloard in pvp doesn't suddenly become horrible when they swap characters.

Xebov · September 2020

redspecter23 wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

only one character completing say the Master Angler achievement while all the other characters on the account would have the Master Angler title without having completed the achievement

And that would be bad why exactly?

It depends on a point of view with that sticking point. If you consider it the "player" who got the achievement, you likely don't have an issue with that. If you consider it the "character" then it makes no sense that an alt has Master Angler if they never fished a hole in their lives.

I'd say neither side is wrong from their own perspective. In particular if you're a heavy role player, it might cause you a serious problem if your lawful character suddenly had access to dark brotherhood titles.

On the other side of the argument, people that consider the account as a whole entity wonder why they have completed an achievement as a player, but have no recognition for that when they do something as simple as swapping alts. A grand overloard in pvp doesn't suddenly become horrible when they swap characters.

I dont see it as sides. Having account wide achievments has benefits:
- reduces load on the database which would profit everyone.
- benefit group gameplay as players would be more inclined to play what is needed and still get their achievment
- leads to players being more likely to play alts because they can now get all on their account

newtinmpls · September 2020

Xebov wrote: »

Account wide achievments make alot of sense

ZoS has chosen to market this game as an MMORPG

The RPG part means that it is the "character" not the "player" that is the focus.

In games where you can literally run a group or a team all at one time, "account wide achievements" would theoretically make sense.

redspecter23 · September 2020

Xebov wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

only one character completing say the Master Angler achievement while all the other characters on the account would have the Master Angler title without having completed the achievement

And that would be bad why exactly?

It depends on a point of view with that sticking point. If you consider it the "player" who got the achievement, you likely don't have an issue with that. If you consider it the "character" then it makes no sense that an alt has Master Angler if they never fished a hole in their lives.

I'd say neither side is wrong from their own perspective. In particular if you're a heavy role player, it might cause you a serious problem if your lawful character suddenly had access to dark brotherhood titles.

On the other side of the argument, people that consider the account as a whole entity wonder why they have completed an achievement as a player, but have no recognition for that when they do something as simple as swapping alts. A grand overloard in pvp doesn't suddenly become horrible when they swap characters.

I dont see it as sides. Having account wide achievments has benefits:
- reduces load on the database which would profit everyone.
- benefit group gameplay as players would be more inclined to play what is needed and still get their achievment
- leads to players being more likely to play alts because they can now get all on their account

I agree with you, but I do try to see it from all angles if possible. The roleplayer example I mentioned has been brought up in the past as a counterargument. If you primarily role play, you would be quite upset to have all sorts of inappropriate achievements/titles associated with that character.

There are ways to work around that, but that's why discussions like this are good. Find ways for all sides to mostly find a compromose that works.

Cryptical · September 2020

My main achievement character is a Templar. Spent quite a while doing things on that character. Like master angler. Like chasing down Ma’iq.

I like playing my DK more.

Character-barrier achievements means every time I now do something new on my DK I have a thought running in the back of my head “Gonna have to do double work, so it is on my Templar too”.

I want account wide achievements.

Not for the progression achievements like Kill X Number Zombies, only the completed achievements should count.

People shouldn’t have new content tinged with the negative feeling that to do it on their favorite character would add to their list of chores to repeat it on another less-enjoyed character.

Lady_Sleepless · September 2020

I always say the same thing. Make achievements account wide but show the character you are playing own achievement along with it. Also don't make alliance war achievements account wide keep them character bound. It's simple really and will allow more people to play multiple characters how they want. Collections and dyes are already unbound.

DarkPicture · September 2020

Achivements should reward a player not character and thats all. No matter what u say every game has achivement account wide and it works good. For those who are against I hope u are also against account wide collectibles and u are not using them cause your alts didnt get specific achivement for costume/pet/skin/personality. Unless collectibles are okey but achivements no...
hypocrisy.

Xebov · September 2020

newtinmpls wrote: »

The RPG part means that it is the "character" not the "player" that is the focus.

RPG means you have Quests and a Story and can gather gear and customize your characters, nothing more. This can mean you control a single character, it can also be a group.

Sylvermynx · September 2020

I wouldn't mind account-wide achievements for those to whom it's some sort of barrier. But I do NOT want that for myself - so if it's optional (with a toggle) fine; otherwise, I vote a solid NO.

As for the collectibles remark @Browart, I wouldn't even cavil at that. Every character I have (53? 55? Not sure, and not going to count right now) has a mount, a pet, a costume or outfit - and I don't duplicate those across the account. That wouldn't bother me at all.

Each of my characters, as many of them as there are, are individuals. I want them to stay that way. And yes, it would really bother me (as I'm basically and at heart a roleplayer) if some of my goody two shoes people were showing achievements done by those not quite so lily-white.

TineaCruris · September 2020

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Make achievements account wide so you dont have to stress about which character you get an achievement on.
Provide incentives for grinding and increase replay value by tracking the number of times a character has met the criteria for that achievement.
For example track the number of times a player has completed a normal or veteran trial by having the named achievement display a number next to it. For harder achievements like Gryphon Heart it can track the number of times you have met the criteria for that achievement.
Make it so you only get the achievement points for the first time you get the achievement but let the game still track the stats for how many times you met the achievements requirements.

I never understood why achievement points are not account wide. Some content is better suited to certain types of toons and you simply can't play through it with a tank, healer or what ever very easily. It makes more sense to have the achievements be account wide.

TineaCruris · September 2020

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

why? so a if your in crag you can link an Achievement to get into a trial you have never run on that character or role? this should NEVER be considered as an option. far to many ppl with "carry's" getting into groups with no clue what to do as it is. this suggestion will only make it worse

Why not? If you've done it before you know the fight, regardless of what toon you've done it on.

AlnilamE · September 2020

redspecter23 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No, please! If your easy-mode Magblade got Flawless Conqueror that doesn't mean your rotten and dusty Stamden can have it too.

I know a lot, and I mean, a lot of people that change to meta constantly so they can complete things because they can't with other classes.

So no, leave Achievement Points as they are now, please.

What if the achievement and associated unlocks were account wide, but the linked achievement said specifically what class (or classes) earned it. That way, progress can track account wide, but concern about how one earned the achievement could be lessened.

As Tandor said, a central achievement overview would be fine, but I use achievements to keep track of what characters have done what. I also have a hierarchy of characters that work on certain achievements. For example, 4 of my characters have the "loot 1000 chests" achievement, so my 5th is currently collecting all the treasure maps, because it helps her progress the achievement. Once she's done, I'll move on to the next character.

Same with the dolmen achievements, Daedric Generals, Cyrodiil completions, etc. If I only had to do this once (which happened years ago), why would I play my alts?

Banana · September 2020

Account wide everything please

idk · September 2020

Tandor wrote: »

Oh not this again.

No thanks. Have an account summary accessed from the character selection screen showing who has done what by all means, and introduce some new account-wide achievements if you must, but leave characters to progress individually through the game. The game at present has a decent balance between account-wide stuff like CPs and collections, and character-specific things like most achievements. Not everybody wants to play the game the same with multiple characters, some like to tackle things differently, so that a lawful good character doesn't want to be saddled with another character's Thieves Guild achievements, for example.

I think you get the point. Account-wide achievements work great and is even better when character-based achievements can be seen. It is the perfect design.

kargen27 · September 2020

I've been trying to finish up the achievements for collecting trophies. if the achievements were account wide I would be done collecting trophies because different characters have different trophies they are missing. As example my main healer needs the Ogre Toe Ring to finish that achievement. Two other characters have found that toe ring. I don't want account wide achievements.
I want my character to earn the achievements. Achievements shouldn't be easy to get. They are achievements and you should feel you achieved something when you meet a goal.
Once a month or so I will take my healer out where the Ogres like to frolic and will spend a good part of the evening slaughtering them. I've been doing this off and on for a couple of years now. Real bad luck on getting that toe ring for me and the Ogres. I will eventually get it though and that will put a smile on my face.

derpy_cat1234 · September 2020

I like how the only argument against account wide achievements is rp and craglorn groups(bruh). I just want all my trial trifectas to be account wide... Keep the rest character wide for all I care but make high end achievements account wide. I mean come on dawnbringer is broken atm(maybe?who even knows at this point no confirmation from zos). I don't wanna grind it like 5 times that's absurd.

idk · September 2020

dimitrisp1 wrote: »

I like how the only argument against account wide achievements is rp and craglorn groups(bruh). I just want all my trial trifectas to be account wide... Keep the rest character wide for all I care but make high end achievements account wide. I mean come on dawnbringer is broken atm(maybe?who even knows at this point no confirmation from zos). I don't wanna grind it like 5 times that's absurd.

The title should remain only with the characters that earned them. One thing I liked about SWTOR is they had a good achievement system that was account-wide. However, for any title earned via challenging means, or even pretend challenging means, it was only available to the characters that earned them. Essentially, anything meaning full was still locked to the character. However, seeing that at least one character on the account had cleared the achievement was a good thing.

MaddPowered · September 2020

Account wide achievements is a terrible idea.

Haha level 3 5 star btw
haha level 3 godslayer btw
haha if you want achievements on other characters go do them again haha

derpy_cat1234 · September 2020

Why not collectables then? Or skins? Why titles specifically? Cause that's how SWTOR did it? Don't get how that's a counter argument. Guess the actual problem is that you only get a title for high end achievemenets and for only one character at that.(oh yea and an ugly mount, who could forget) If you got something cool that's account wide and a title I could see how the title would be character specific.

guarstompemoji · September 2020

Having achievements centralized, yet also having character-specific lists is the way to go. It's a step ahead of the styles/collectives, in fact, which do not list which character earned them.

Having achievements locked to character has killed most of my roleplay. I started off more recently making a new character for Skyrim. Proudly, I put together a story, and gave the character a unique outfit. Purchased a mount. ...

...then realized how much was locked behind Achievements in the game, and became fearful of the number of times I'd need to run and rerun and rerun some story content, or if I wanted to purchase an item for a house, how I would be stuck playing "loading screens and guesswork" to figure out which character the achievement was on. It would make story quests more of a chore-and-churn, instead of me savoring the content from a particular POV.

...so I all but stopped playing that character, and went back to my first one.

I've effectively stopped RPing because of it. While I understand the wish for separate lists--I believe both can be accommodated via technology.

richo262 · September 2020

Things that should be account wide

Achievements - Not related to Skyshards / Quests / Specific dolmen completion / Delves / Pub Dungeons or anything may constitute quest progress. For instance, addons that seek Skyshards rely on your achievements to know whether you do or do not have that shard. Dolmens for example, the achievements to kill specific named bosses from dolmens should be account wide, completing that specific dolmen itself, should not, as that provides information to the player that the character has not yet completed it, but the grind is already done. Grind achieves should be account wide, progress ones, probably not.
Recipes - Just the base game ones, and not drop again. Most BIS recipes are event related, base game ones are, for the most part, redundant now.
Green Furniture designs - This should auto read, and not drop once again once found, green recipes should be abundant to get people into housing, but require actually playing the game. Blues / Purples should be the higher end tradable ones.

Things that should be class wide
Motifs - If 1 DK reads a motif, all DK's can now craft it
Event recipes
Blue / Purple designs
Outfit slots

---

This game has become a grindfest atm and some of the old grinds should be relaxed a bit.

To lower the grind I'd also like to see Undaunted, Fighters Guild (minus quest) and Mages Guild (minus quest) achievements, including Lore Books go account wide, with adjustment.

Instead of Undaunted achievements giving XP they act as a multiplier. Same with how many unique bosses you've killed at the Dolments and how many Mages guild lore books you've collected, they now act as a multiplier.

So on an alt, if you complete a Dungeon / Pledge, or you complete a Dolmen / FG Daily, or you complete a Public Dungeon / World Boss or Mages Guild daily, the amount of XP you gain is increased by a certain factor depending on how many account wide Undaunted / FG / MG achievements you have.

Similarly, just like DBH and TG, you are not limited to 1 a day, and the FG / MG / Undaunted daily will always direct you primarily toward a Delve / WB / Pub Dung / Dolmens you are yet to have actually completed. It will revert to 1 per day when you have hit level 10 AND cleared all available PD / WB / Delves / Dolmens.