Achievement Points Account Wide

Tandor

DigitalHype wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No, please! If your easy-mode Magblade got Flawless Conqueror that doesn't mean your rotten and dusty Stamden can have it too.

I know a lot, and I mean, a lot of people that change to meta constantly so they can complete things because they can't with other classes.

So no, leave Achievement Points as they are now, please.
 

The above is a fallacy. You are still thinking of it in terms of a character-based achievement. The OP is asking for achievements to be earned by the account. In your example neither the "easy-mode Magblade" nor the "rotten and dusty Stamden" got the achievement. @player got the achievement. The character they used becomes irrelevant.

Why don't they all get the first character's quest rewards and experience then? @player earned them, not the character, right?

DaveMoeDee

For people that want account-wide, they can just have a number for it. They would probably need to add that as account-wide unlocks since characters probably can't access one another.

Master writs currently use achievements to decide what the chances are of certain individuals get master writs. Undaunted uses achievements toward leveling. For those reasons, at the very least, achievements will remain per character. But they can at least display a number for people who just want to see that they have cleared everything once.

kargen27

Xebov wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

dimitrisp1 wrote: »

I like how the only argument against account wide achievements is rp and craglorn groups(bruh). I just want all my trial trifectas to be account wide... Keep the rest character wide for all I care but make high end achievements account wide. I mean come on dawnbringer is broken atm(maybe?who even knows at this point no confirmation from zos). I don't wanna grind it like 5 times that's absurd.

It isn't may argument at all. My argument is much more simple. If a character wants to show off a title they have to earn that title. It doesn't count if another character earned part of the title.
People argue that it is the player that earns the achievement. The player can't earn the achievement without the character though. A team effort of sorts. I wouldn't mind if there were a way for a player to share all the achievements they have accomplished over all their characters but if they want to display a title that character must have earned that title.

The character wants nothing. It is you that thinks of your character as a living entitiy. In reality your Character is a tool, nothing more. It will do nothing without you thats why it isnt a team efford at all. I as the player did these things and i choose what to do with it.

Now let me ask you this. If you are so against account achievments and having account wide titles, why are you content with dyes, personalities, skins and mounts being account wide? After all your character didnt do them. While you are heavy RP based, do you make sure that everything your character uses was actually earned on it? I bet you dont.

Okay let's look at the character is a tool idea. I can use a hammer to drive nails. I can get really good at it. That doesn't mean I can drive nails with anywhere near the same proficiency with a screwdriver or a pencil. It would be wrong for me to make that claim. So why would it be okay to claim I can do the same thing with my healer I could do with my tank? You as a player can do nothing without your character.
I don't really roll play at all in the game. The closest I get to it is each character has their own home (or will have maybe) and they don't get to put furniture in their homes that comes from an achievement they have not earned. My desire to keep achievements character bound has nothing to do with roll play and everything to do with game play. There should be some achievements that are hard to get. If you must accomplish three things to earn a specific achievement I feel all three things need be done on that one character. It makes the achievement more challenging thus more rewarding when you get it.

Titles are different than achievements. If it is ever allowed that you can work towards one achievement across multiple characters the title should only be allowed on a character that did the achievement with no help from other characters. To me wanting titles account wide takes away from the long term health of the game.

Long ago in the game a player could put trophy fish in the bank and then grab them on another character to get credit for catching the fish. Some people were doing it to get multiple Master Fishermen or to help get the achievement on one character if they happened to catch a fish that character needed. To me that cheapened the accomplishment.

Some people are wanting account wide accomplishments thinking getting Tamriel Skyshard Hunter on one character would mean all their characters have it and thus have all the skyshards on that character. Again something that is not healthy for the long term health of the game.

Iluvrien

Xebov wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Account wide everything please

Account wide nothing please.

Separate ESO+ subscriptions for each character? Got it. You work for ZoS, right?

And the intentionally misrepresenting an argument for comedic effect award goes to....

You miss his point.

This is a complicate topic. Some want Achievments to be account wide, others dont. The complicated part is that many Achievment unlocks are already account wide like dyes, pets, styles, skins and personalities. While the Achievments and Titles are not. This also brings up an odd situation. You can use achievment furnishings on every character, but you can only buy them on the ones that have the Achievment. Its realy some random line drawn in the sand. There is no actual argument to why it should stay this way other than personal taste and given the arguments some ppl put up the question from him is very valid.

No. I didn't miss their point.

Their comment added very little to the discussion. It highlighted an element without exploring it. It's attempt at reduction, and then sarcasm/humour further reduced it's impact.

Hence the use of the poster's own vehicle to highlight how out of place it was.

It would have been far more useful as a paragraph that could actually be addressed in the discussion rather than a throw-away comment.

Starlight_Whisper

But some characters might not be able to complete same achievements... especially in trials.

tmbrinks

Pretty much every character has the ability to complete every achievement in the game.

With the homogenization of classes and class abilities, and the similar homogenization of race and racial passives, there is only a very small difference between different specs.

Yes, there are some that have a slight advantage over others (breton over others for sustain on healers), (argonian over others for resource management on tanks), (altmer over others for mag dps), but these advantages are measured in the single percents and would not preclude you from completing any achievement in the game.

Czekoludek

MaddPowered wrote: »

Account wide achievements is a terrible idea.

Haha level 3 5 star btw
haha level 3 godslayer btw
haha if you want achievements on other characters go do them again haha

You can have level 3 char with emperor costume and vCR skin and nobody gives a F so why this is different?

kojou

tmbrinks wrote: »

Pretty much every character has the ability to complete every achievement in the game.

With the homogenization of classes and class abilities, and the similar homogenization of race and racial passives, there is only a very small difference between different specs.

Yes, there are some that have a slight advantage over others (breton over others for sustain on healers), (argonian over others for resource management on tanks), (altmer over others for mag dps), but these advantages are measured in the single percents and would not preclude you from completing any achievement in the game.

This ^^

Seriously DPS on one class to another is not that much different. If you know what you are doing you can get good DPS on all classes.

If you are doing something where having a good tank or healer matters then you probably are going with a known tank or healer that you have played with before that knows his/her stuff. If you are pugging VHRC (non-hard mode) then you probably just want to know if the tank or healer has done it before. I typically just ask the player if they know about certain mechanics and see if I get a "deer in the headlight" response, I don't even ask for the achievement. Most players if they at least know the basics of tanking (for example) you can guide them through the fight even if they don't have the achievement.

I would like to see account wide achievements as well, but not at the expense of game stability, so I would expect any features like this will be low on the priority list for a long time to come, but I would support it if the developers actually did get to the point when they had time to implement it.

Aznarb

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Account wide achievement will encourage me to play alts.

how? surely the reason to play Alts is to get achievements and finish quest? if you already on all accounts what would be the incentive to play other Alts? think you just shot ya self in the foot there

No everyone have enough free time to get all achievement on all alt.
Account wide success is already the case in many game. In a game like eso with so much achievemnt it's just stupid to bind it to a char, expecially when at high level play you need to have alt to fill what the group need.
How much people have made important achievement on a char they don't care cuz their main was not meta ?

Account wide achievement should be a thing like any decent game.
[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

iris56

I too would really like global achievements. I also don't think global achievements are the only solution. You know what would actually solve all the problem for me?

1) Something like Kyoma's addon should be in base game. It lets me see what achievements other characters have without changing characters 18 times. Its just handy.

2) Class change tokens. I HATE playing my main in Cyrodiil and I dont like dpsing on it nearly as much as some of my other characters. The class has changed and I just don't like the class very much as it is today, but I've already done enough achievements on it that I can't even fathom starting over. Just let me change her to a class that I like more and it wouldn't be an issue. I've alts of pretty much every mag/stam/tank/healer class combination. I like some of them an awful lot, but if I want an achievement it always has to be on my main... which i hate playing. Ugh. Take my money let me change her class! $$$$

DigitalHype

Tandor wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No, please! If your easy-mode Magblade got Flawless Conqueror that doesn't mean your rotten and dusty Stamden can have it too.

I know a lot, and I mean, a lot of people that change to meta constantly so they can complete things because they can't with other classes.

So no, leave Achievement Points as they are now, please.
 

The above is a fallacy. You are still thinking of it in terms of a character-based achievement. The OP is asking for achievements to be earned by the account. In your example neither the "easy-mode Magblade" nor the "rotten and dusty Stamden" got the achievement. @player got the achievement. The character they used becomes irrelevant.

Why don't they all get the first character's quest rewards and experience then? @player earned them, not the character, right?

Because the OP isn't proposing that change. They are specifically only asking for achievements to be account-based. Not drops and experience. Your response was textbook strawman.

OOJIMMY

Make achievements account based, but titles to the particular character that earned them.

Tandor

DigitalHype wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No, please! If your easy-mode Magblade got Flawless Conqueror that doesn't mean your rotten and dusty Stamden can have it too.

I know a lot, and I mean, a lot of people that change to meta constantly so they can complete things because they can't with other classes.

So no, leave Achievement Points as they are now, please.
 

The above is a fallacy. You are still thinking of it in terms of a character-based achievement. The OP is asking for achievements to be earned by the account. In your example neither the "easy-mode Magblade" nor the "rotten and dusty Stamden" got the achievement. @player got the achievement. The character they used becomes irrelevant.

Why don't they all get the first character's quest rewards and experience then? @player earned them, not the character, right?

Because the OP isn't proposing that change. They are specifically only asking for achievements to be account-based. Not drops and experience. Your response was textbook strawman.

Not at all. I was responding to the usual claim that everything in the game is done by the player and not by the character so should be shared across all the player's characters. I was saying that if that is the case then why aren't people asking for quest rewards and experience to be account-wide too? That is a perfectly valid point to make in response to the attempt to justify achievements being account-wide.

Thechuckage

Tandor wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No, please! If your easy-mode Magblade got Flawless Conqueror that doesn't mean your rotten and dusty Stamden can have it too.

I know a lot, and I mean, a lot of people that change to meta constantly so they can complete things because they can't with other classes.

So no, leave Achievement Points as they are now, please.
 

The above is a fallacy. You are still thinking of it in terms of a character-based achievement. The OP is asking for achievements to be earned by the account. In your example neither the "easy-mode Magblade" nor the "rotten and dusty Stamden" got the achievement. @player got the achievement. The character they used becomes irrelevant.

Why don't they all get the first character's quest rewards and experience then? @player earned them, not the character, right?

Because the OP isn't proposing that change. They are specifically only asking for achievements to be account-based. Not drops and experience. Your response was textbook strawman.

Not at all. I was responding to the usual claim that everything in the game is done by the player and not by the character so should be shared across all the player's characters. I was saying that if that is the case then why aren't people asking for quest rewards and experience to be account-wide too? That is a perfectly valid point to make in response to the attempt to justify achievements being account-wide.

Using that same train of thought (characters earn it, not the player) then CP should be individually earned, like back in the Vet level days.
In fact, the entire collections tab would have to be gutted, unless that character earned the pet / costume / mount etc.

Tandor

Thechuckage wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

No, please! If your easy-mode Magblade got Flawless Conqueror that doesn't mean your rotten and dusty Stamden can have it too.

I know a lot, and I mean, a lot of people that change to meta constantly so they can complete things because they can't with other classes.

So no, leave Achievement Points as they are now, please.
 

The above is a fallacy. You are still thinking of it in terms of a character-based achievement. The OP is asking for achievements to be earned by the account. In your example neither the "easy-mode Magblade" nor the "rotten and dusty Stamden" got the achievement. @player got the achievement. The character they used becomes irrelevant.

Why don't they all get the first character's quest rewards and experience then? @player earned them, not the character, right?

Because the OP isn't proposing that change. They are specifically only asking for achievements to be account-based. Not drops and experience. Your response was textbook strawman.

Not at all. I was responding to the usual claim that everything in the game is done by the player and not by the character so should be shared across all the player's characters. I was saying that if that is the case then why aren't people asking for quest rewards and experience to be account-wide too? That is a perfectly valid point to make in response to the attempt to justify achievements being account-wide.

Using that same train of thought (characters earn it, not the player) then CP should be individually earned, like back in the Vet level days.
In fact, the entire collections tab would have to be gutted, unless that character earned the pet / costume / mount etc.

Yes indeed, and that would be some players' preference.

EdmondDontes

It seems like either achievement points should be account wide, OR, we should get a class change token so we can change up our main to tailor to any content.

Thechuckage

With the new gear re-construction coming out, gear is essentially account wide. Granted it's not automatic.

Why not something similar with achieves?

richo262

There are four types of Achievements really.

1 ) Progression
These are achievement associated with quest progression, sky shards, specific dolmens destroyed.
2 ) Grind
These are achievements associated with repeating a task over and over, such as kill X many dolmens, monsters, etc. I would include undaunted achievements in this, if no death / speed etc were account wide they could bring back the skins behind harder content as it would be less onerous if you can do it between any character at any time.
3 ) Content unlocks
These are achievements that when awarded provide a collectible or dye
4 ) Titles
These are achievements that when awarded provide a title

I am perfectly fine with 2 and 3 being account wide. It would make the game less grindy and given the content is awarded account wide, the achievement may as well be too.

1 should not be account wide as it provides useful information to the player, which skyshards are yet to be collected, where the player is at in the story, etc, addons rely on this information.

4 should be disconnected from achievements entirely and have its own panel. The titles in this game should culled, remove over half of them, and all military titles prior are revoked when promoted. No military allows a General to hold himself out as a Lieutenant.

Reduced to 2 panels
Achievements (Grind and Unlocks)
Feats (Titles)

Have the progression attached to the Zone Guide

AlnilamE

EdmondDontes wrote: »

It seems like either achievement points should be account wide, OR, we should get a class change token so we can change up our main to tailor to any content.

At this point, I'd say go for it in regards to class change tokens. But whoever buys one can never come to the forums and make threads about how ZOS nerfed X class because they wanted to sell tokens.

Thechuckage wrote: »

With the new gear re-construction coming out, gear is essentially account wide. Granted it's not automatic.

Why not something similar with achieves?

I'm not opposed to having an achievement overview on the character select screen that shows you all your achievements and which characters got them. But I want the achievements to be earned by character, so that they can be earned multiple times.

Now, before you tell me what all is account-wide in the game (dyes, collectibles, champion points, etc), I will point out that all MMOs have some things that are character based, and some things that are account based, and having a balance that pleases both the "It's the player!" and "It's the character!" crowds is important.

Cryptical

A class change could work, but that’s still only a band aid over the problem that the game is made to have many alts in one player account, each specialized into a ROLE.

And that’s the forgotten aspect of this discussion - ROLES.

Most achievements are geared in some way toward one of the roles. Damage blocking achievement is aligned toward the tank role, for example. Nobody expects the dps to be making any appreciable progress on that achievement. And so, the achievement list is fractured.

We who want to progress toward completing all the achievements are fighting uphill, not only against the game’s challenges but also against the developers’ alt-encouraging design.

Let me expand on how the devs encourage the fracture into alt characters, just in case someone flippantly hand waves it away.
Think about it... how many times would you have to go through dungeons to get Greater Dungeon Blocker, Greater Dungeon Healer, and Dungeon Damage Dispenser on the same character? 10 million points of damage healed on allies is one thing for a healer, entirely another for a tank or dps character. And with the costly barriers to switching roles - skill points to allocate or reallocate, champ points to allocate or reallocate, attribute points to allocate or reallocate, gear sets to farm and switch out, sometimes a race change as well. I presume nobody is going to say a Breton Templar makes a good foundation for a tank, right? Also that a nord DK would make a horrible base to build a healer, okay? Good.

On the argument that it’s the character and not the player... it is always your physical meaty fingers pushing the buttons. If you use a saw, hammer, and screwdriver it is still YOU that built an entire house... the tools always obeyed your hands, just like the game characters always obey your button-presses.

Perhaps a compromise. Make the achievement points span all characters in a second Total Completion tab that is separate from a Character Completion tab. Let that Total tab be accumulative so that if an achievement is completed then it will remain in that listing even if the character is deleted - because getting rid of a character should not erase all the effort you put into it with all the button pushing you did with your fingers.

Example: should you lose your emperor costume if that character is deleted? Should all that effort be erased along with the character? I say no. And that is an argument in favor of achievements being made to be account wide in at least some ways.

Raideen

An astounding "YES" op. 100% agreed!

Thechuckage

richo262 wrote: »

There are four types of Achievements really.

1 ) Progression
These are achievement associated with quest progression, sky shards, specific dolmens destroyed.
2 ) Grind
These are achievements associated with repeating a task over and over, such as kill X many dolmens, monsters, etc. I would include undaunted achievements in this, if no death / speed etc were account wide they could bring back the skins behind harder content as it would be less onerous if you can do it between any character at any time.
3 ) Content unlocks
These are achievements that when awarded provide a collectible or dye
4 ) Titles
These are achievements that when awarded provide a title

I am perfectly fine with 2 and 3 being account wide. It would make the game less grindy and given the content is awarded account wide, the achievement may as well be too.

1 should not be account wide as it provides useful information to the player, which skyshards are yet to be collected, where the player is at in the story, etc, addons rely on this information.

4 should be disconnected from achievements entirely and have its own panel. The titles in this game should culled, remove over half of them, and all military titles prior are revoked when promoted. No military allows a General to hold himself out as a Lieutenant.

Reduced to 2 panels
Achievements (Grind and Unlocks)
Feats (Titles)

Have the progression attached to the Zone Guide

I see nothing wrong with that.

Sidenote @ AInilamE GW2 has account wide achieves. Some have to be done on specific character type ie Necromancer has to perform this specific task. The vast majority are free for all. A better system IMO

AlnilamE

Cryptical wrote: »

A class change could work, but that’s still only a band aid over the problem that the game is made to have many alts in one player account, each specialized into a ROLE.

And that’s the forgotten aspect of this discussion - ROLES.

Most achievements are geared in some way toward one of the roles. Damage blocking achievement is aligned toward the tank role, for example. Nobody expects the dps to be making any appreciable progress on that achievement. And so, the achievement list is fractured.

We who want to progress toward completing all the achievements are fighting uphill, not only against the game’s challenges but also against the developers’ alt-encouraging design.

Let me expand on how the devs encourage the fracture into alt characters, just in case someone flippantly hand waves it away.
Think about it... how many times would you have to go through dungeons to get Greater Dungeon Blocker, Greater Dungeon Healer, and Dungeon Damage Dispenser on the same character? 10 million points of damage healed on allies is one thing for a healer, entirely another for a tank or dps character. And with the costly barriers to switching roles - skill points to allocate or reallocate, champ points to allocate or reallocate, attribute points to allocate or reallocate, gear sets to farm and switch out, sometimes a race change as well. I presume nobody is going to say a Breton Templar makes a good foundation for a tank, right? Also that a nord DK would make a horrible base to build a healer, okay? Good.

I'm going to disagree with your entire premise here.

1. Everyone in a dungeon has to block at times. (Is this why people say DLC dungeons are hard? Because they think DPS and Healers don't have to block?)
2. The healing achievement includes self-heals. I have it on my DK who is a tank/DPS
3. If you are going after the dungeon achievements, then the Blocker/Damage Dealer/Healer are going to be completed before you are done with the achievement to complete 100 pledges from each of the pledge givers. I checked some of my characters and only the ones who have done very few pledges haven't gotten all of them. The ones that have done the most pledges have all of the above achievements even though they don't have the 100-pledge achievements yet.
4. You don't need to min-max to get any of the achievements you mention. I have a breton templar healer/tank, an argonian sorc DPS/Healer, and argonian Warden Healer and they all run dungeons just fine. A guildie mains an Orc DK Healer and is our go-to healer for group content. If you want to, go ahead and make your Nord DK a healer. Trinimac's Valor is a good set for those, for example.

So no, those achievements in particular are not hard to get on multiple characters, regardless of what their role is.

Casul

+1 for account wide achievements and titles.

Choucroute

It depends on the achievements.
I understand that some are character bound (like the ones where you have to do X damage in BGs, since it's very specific, or doing a vSS HM as a healer isn't the same as a damage dealer or a tank), but some others are very basic and I don't really understand why they're character bound.
But at the same time you kind of lose the reason to do contents on several characters - so the opposite of what some others are saying.

My reason to play my characters is partially to get achievements on them. If any character created already has all the trifectas, HM, vet clears, etc., where's even the fun of clearing that same old content on those new characters?
I actually like to hunt all the achievements on my different characters: as a tank, as different DDs, as KH or GH.
I don't feel like I would have earned those achievements if I just clear it on character A and now all of my characters have it. It'd almost feel like I'm faking those achievements.
It also doesn't matter if you know the trial well or not, there are some things/mechanics that only matter or that you only encounter on other roles. I've met PLENTY of people who got vTrial HM clears as one role but are really bad on another role.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

Yes please! I main a NB and am currently very into PvPing but my main class just isnt fun to me. Meanwhile I love PvPing on my StamDk and would love to main it. However my NB has 30k achievement points and a ton of titles, which I dont want to redo. Emp, Master Angler, majority of the DLC dungeon tri-fectas, vet Trials + hardmodes, quests (cadwells gold), motifs, etc. These achievements are time consuming and not even that "fun" to do.

The sad part is that I race changed my StamDK to look excatly like my main and researched bunch of traits already and wasted almost 1 mil gold relearning only like 3% of the motifs I know on my main. That was literally 3days ago and I cant be bothered with it anymore just because of the time consuming nature of it.

On my main, I have every skill-line maxed out, every skill morph unlocked, 350+ skillpiints. I have 245!!! days played on my main and I just dont enjoy playing on it anymore. Having achievements, title, motifs be account wide would actually make me leave my NB behind and play my StamDk.

Another option is to add class change tokens to the crown store. Or give each character 1 class change once they reach lvl 50, so it cant be exploited to play flavour of the month classes.This way I could just change my main which I play since the launch and continue enjoying it without being bored.

Iron_Blurr

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

No thank you. This one likes to achieve things on his alts, that's why he has them.

You can still do that. It will say you got the achievement on

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Account wide achievement will encourage me to play alts.

how? surely the reason to play Alts is to get achievements and finish quest? if you already on all accounts what would be the incentive to play other Alts? think you just shot ya self in the foot there

If you are trying to get a really hard achievement, you should be able to earn it for your account since it is YOU the player who earned it. There can be a compromise where it shows which character you got the achievement on so players can challenge themselves to still get them on every character. But what about for players that already got the achievement on that character? Why cant they continue to have their stats tracked so we can see how many times you get something on a character?
Let's say you want master angler. Why cant it say master angler: 2 times on (This toon) and (That toon) or master angler: 2 on (this toon)

YOU may be the player but the role requires very different things from that player.........so still NO

What you're not understanding is that there are players that can perform extremely well on any role due to game knowledge and practice.
Also achievements should NEVER be used to measure a players skill or as validation for their spot in a group.
You need to understand this. Here are some examples of why your arguments dont hold water.

1. People pay to get carried through content. So already the achievement does not even indicate if you are pulling your weight. Or going afk and letting other people carry you through the content. Carrys happen all the time.
2. People can respec toons. Lets say i have sorc tank and I get a trial achievement on it. I can go to a skill/attribute respec shrine and completely change my build into a stam sorc dps if i want to and link the same achievements to get into groups.
3. Some people buy accounts or share them. Im pretty sure that's against TOS but still we as players will never know if the person on this account is the owner of it or if it's their friend/spouse/relative or anyone else giving the game a try. You never know who is really playing.
4. Some players are highly competent and are able to perform well on any role. These players should be rewarded not punished because they strive for mastery over content in different roles. In fact I would say playing different roles makes you a better and more knowledgeable player over all.
5. What if a player has a dungeon/trial achievement on one character and makes an IDENTICAL character with the same gear, skills, race, cp allocation etc. Does their skill and ability to perform well in group content magically disappear when they swap from one character to the other?

6. Achievements already dont indicate your skill or readiness for content because you may have gotten the achievement 6 months or a year ago and then taken a break from the game. So now ask yourself if this player that has not played the game in months/years is qualified to run hard content? They can link the same achievements showing that they got Gryphon Heart a year ago for example. Does that make them raid ready for a veteran Cloudrest +3 group today?

So overall you are arguing against a change because you want to protect the integrity of linked achievements as a badge that indicates player skill. But the reality is that they already dont work like that for the reasons listed above.

Iron_Blurr

Cryptical wrote: »

A class change could work, but that’s still only a band aid over the problem that the game is made to have many alts in one player account, each specialized into a ROLE.

And that’s the forgotten aspect of this discussion - ROLES.

Most achievements are geared in some way toward one of the roles. Damage blocking achievement is aligned toward the tank role, for example. Nobody expects the dps to be making any appreciable progress on that achievement. And so, the achievement list is fractured.

We who want to progress toward completing all the achievements are fighting uphill, not only against the game’s challenges but also against the developers’ alt-encouraging design.

Let me expand on how the devs encourage the fracture into alt characters, just in case someone flippantly hand waves it away.
Think about it... how many times would you have to go through dungeons to get Greater Dungeon Blocker, Greater Dungeon Healer, and Dungeon Damage Dispenser on the same character? 10 million points of damage healed on allies is one thing for a healer, entirely another for a tank or dps character. And with the costly barriers to switching roles - skill points to allocate or reallocate, champ points to allocate or reallocate, attribute points to allocate or reallocate, gear sets to farm and switch out, sometimes a race change as well. I presume nobody is going to say a Breton Templar makes a good foundation for a tank, right? Also that a nord DK would make a horrible base to build a healer, okay? Good.

On the argument that it’s the character and not the player... it is always your physical meaty fingers pushing the buttons. If you use a saw, hammer, and screwdriver it is still YOU that built an entire house... the tools always obeyed your hands, just like the game characters always obey your button-presses.

Perhaps a compromise. Make the achievement points span all characters in a second Total Completion tab that is separate from a Character Completion tab. Let that Total tab be accumulative so that if an achievement is completed then it will remain in that listing even if the character is deleted - because getting rid of a character should not erase all the effort you put into it with all the button pushing you did with your fingers.

Example: should you lose your emperor costume if that character is deleted? Should all that effort be erased along with the character? I say no. And that is an argument in favor of achievements being made to be account wide in at least some ways.

You're missing the point. You assume that the game stays the same and roles are in a vacuum.
What if next expansion samina healing becomes meta and people start turning their old healers into samina ones. Should their achievements and titles be revoked?
What if you earn the achievement on a tank but decided you want to turn it into a dps. After a simple attribute and skill respect shrine visit you can do that. Achievements are player based not character based because metas shift.
Let's look at this for example..
Years ago you got the achievement for vet hard mode atherian archives as an Off tank.
In 2020 Off tanks typically arent even needed anymore. A really good main tank can deal with attronachs and axes at the same time. So what happens to that character that got the achievement? Should it be revoked since the role no longer exists? Of course not. Because at the time the PLAYER earned it using the strategies and builds representative of the time period.
Lets say in the future hybrid stam+mag dps becomes meta and everyone wants to play one. There will be stam dps that level mag skills to make their hybrid and there will be mag dps that level stam skills to use on their hybrid build. Should they lose all their achievements for daring to wear different armor and swap a few skills around? Of course not.