Are tanks dying spieces in 2020?

craybest

Why is the solution then? Everyone only doing pre-made groups? Why not remove the gf if no one uses it anymore? Waiting 45 mind for 1 dungeon is ridiculous.

BattleAxe

craybest wrote: »

Why is the solution then? Everyone only doing pre-made groups? Why not remove the gf if no one uses it anymore? Waiting 45 mind for 1 dungeon is ridiculous.

The group finder is there for casual players and those of us who chose to run mostly solo. I almost always pug dungeons on my tank because it does give me more of a challenge and therefore makes me a stronger tank in turn. I either succeed getting a group thru or I fail and I learn and get better. I often spend a whole day just tanking pledges in group finder for that very reason.

BlueRaven

Hmmm I wonder, why is the thankless, lowest dps, highest stress role so unpopular?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/z8XHWziJj81I4/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952fea31f5aedf39ac2d1398e335d8237d8438402c1&rid=giphy.gif

idk

BlueRaven wrote: »

Hmmm I wonder, why is the thankless, lowest dps, highest stress role so unpopular?

But the tank role is popular. Most avoid the GF and prefer the smoother runs they can easily get with their guilds.

tomofhyrule

idk wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Hmmm I wonder, why is the thankless, lowest dps, highest stress role so unpopular?

But the tank role is popular. Most avoid the GF and prefer the smoother runs they can easily get with their guilds.

Which is where the 'thankless' part of it comes in.

I love tanking, but I've had enough bad PUGs that I don't need to subject myself to that. I play to have fun and to get better, not to have someone complain that I'm only doing 2k DPS (when the group's barely pushing 20k) and then blame me for not using my AoE taunt (?) and taunting every single trash mob (as in even the not dangerous ones) while they sprint off ahead of me (when my blocking and taunting kind of depend on me having stamina instead of wasting it sprinting) and then collect the adds before I can get the room under control (so I have to waste all of my resources chaining in one add at a time instead of going in first and clawing it all down once).

I've been in too many torturous PUGs to want to deal with getting blamed for that. Again. Best thing I ever did was joining a guild and start running with them, since they make me feel good about it and help me learn how to play my role effectively, and all of a sudden dungeons became one of the most fun things to do in this game.

Rowjoh

I have two different tank builds that are great fun to play, but not with people who abuse dungeon group etiquette.

I've lost count of the number of times I've had to leave dungeon finder generated groups as players kept ignoring requests to not sprint ahead and engage bosses without the tank and even the healer.

I now rarely use the group finder and ignore requests in zone chat, preferring to organise my own guild groups to guarantee a productive and fun ride.

Ek1

Swordancer wrote: »

What the hell is going on? Is there no way to change current state by making some changes? Is this game a complete stagnation?

Well, as pointed out tank literally carries the whole party on his back, geting the most heat as his mistakes and/or shortcomings are most easilly spotted and top of all the loot system spits on him. When have you last heard a tank getting loot from molag? To tanks the event is just plain waste of time and joy sink.

One solution would be removing zombies from the game and signifigantly reduce the armour light and medium gear gives.

NPCs attacks are either huge bombs that can be sidestepped (not even dodged) or they drool for several seconds betwean attacks doing nothing. None of them press their advantage nor try to match the barrage of attacks PCs do thus tanking can be done by DPSing them down before the Big Attack comes.
No one uses crowd control in the game as everything is solved by DpS and literally everything evolves around them and it. Even tanks and healers are called supports and to support what? DpS.

Dropping light armors effiency from 43% to 33% would give some respect and balance to roles. Magicka users got their shields and stamina users can dodge.

Or drop all healing to half in the veteran content
That would boost importance of DR over HPs, promote use of CC and let tanks and healers to do their jobs while the _most common_ role could consider supporting those that are represented the least.

Or give some decent damage reflection to those that are tanking. 10% of raw damage rreturned to taunted targets would make tanking lot more intresting. Hell, even 1% would.

I have tanked since beta and I have one tank from each class plus temp, ward and necro healers. Rest of slots are filled with mulecrafters errr I mean DDs. I enjoy enormously doing solo tanking with rest of party spots filled with pure damage as I can manage veteran content by myself without a healer. I also enjoy more traditional group comp when the company is good and by good i mean when i am not reffered as support.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Nah, they are just outbreeding with DD characters and thus causing a tank depression in the evolutionary continuum. Soon there will be only one role, the tankamagealer...

ClawOfTheTwoMoons

Swordancer wrote: »

I am at the point right now where I just play with DD as a tank do grind items on normal without any respect to the group members and just rushing to get what I want as quick as I can. Being honorable player time is over for me after reading all your comments in this thread.

I am just using lack of tank problem on my advantage to quick get in to dungeon and I don't care if low level people that usually joins me dies or not. If it scares new players away then I don't care becouse it is not my fault that game mechanics looks that way. I dont need to even finish the dungeon becouse all I need is to do not waste my own time and I can quickly join other group again to get few more drops.

I can do this, this isn't against any game rules and everybody who thinks that this is bad then I remind you. Most of you complan about DPS so now just complain little more. Who cares? Certainly not ZoS becous they would change that long time ago and the things are as they are which means same mechanics, same problems.

Am I a bad person right now? I don't think so. I am just tired of being a good guy in the game and all I get for that is random guy leaving becouse he can without any consequences. Now Im just beeing them.

I hope the pugs have the common sense to vote kick you. I sure as hell would.

pluckpluck

Tanking for more than two years, I stopped to use GF, pretty quickly. Main reason is that a group of players where looking for a tank for running achievements (100% on all DLCs except last one and BRP), but also, at a point and for doing vet DLC content, you just need communication. To have a few assurances. Maybe on the DPS, at least on the addons they use and may install. To establish communication, because some HM are almost impossible without a vocal.

And when you're a reliable tank, you get enroled in guilds pretty quickly, and, yes, it's never hard to find a group, or to just get DMs to help.

But also, being a tank is to accept a lot of pressure. Someone told on first page, you die, the group wipes. It means that you have a huge responsibility, should know all the spawning places of the dungeons/trials, what to prioritize, what to block, what to dodge. The trial that really did the difference when it appeared is CR. You're MT and you die, the group wipe. Even with a ton of practice on it now, there are a few situations where I continue to die. I wipe, they wipe.

But, besides that, you can't have the stuff you want. I'm playing a Tank DK, 35k HP, Yolna+Alkosh. Yes, okay, I do most content, even godmodes run like that, but still, for some situations, I would prefer for myself more magicka regen, more health. Then, use frost staff? no, no, now you play lightning staff, to give a little more bonuses. And you observe a rotation, to have Crusher glyph constantly activated, you should only block attacks that will one-shot you, else don't block and rely on healers and spells..

Don't read me bad, I continue to enjoy tanking despite ZOS nerfs, bugs, lags, RNG. But, considering the responsibilities I have to wear, I prefer a few assurance, which I can find in guilds, way more rarely via GF. Now, I am always okay to help people with a dungeon or more specific achievements (except maybe strangling cowardice, no thank you), still, joining a PUG to get three headless DDs chicken hardly doing 30k together, and blaming tank for dying.. How to say that politely..?

Xebov

craybest wrote: »

Why is the solution then? Everyone only doing pre-made groups? Why not remove the gf if no one uses it anymore? Waiting 45 mind for 1 dungeon is ridiculous.

You have 45 minutes wait time because you are playing the role that is overrepresented by a huge margin and at least half of the players in this role can barely hold theiur weapon the correct way.

idk wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Hmmm I wonder, why is the thankless, lowest dps, highest stress role so unpopular?

But the tank role is popular. Most avoid the GF and prefer the smoother runs they can easily get with their guilds.

The Tank role is not popular. Every game that has Tanks has a shortage in this department. Its much easier to play a DD than a Tank in most games.

What you see is something different. Tanks get attracted by good DD players so they stick with them. This turns the DDs into 2 groups. One group with good DDs that usually has enought or even to many Tanks, the other group with mostly poor DDs that dont get enought.

Swordancer

Merforum wrote: »

Swordancer wrote: »

Im playing with an adult people, it's 18+ game after all. Im not teaching anyone anything becouse they can make thier own decisions. If you don't like somone behavior you repeat it? I don't think so. I can do my job on normal without dying and still do proper DPS usually surpassing the abilities of random people statistically. It is still good for them after all to have badass DPS on thier side . Being a rushing fake tank in dungeon is something not other people pushed me to but the game itself and I don't care if some random guy wouldn't share an item I need with me. His decision. Also it is your opinion I do not share. I'll still be a fake tank in normal dungeon becouse today noone complained about it at all. Anyway this is my choice how do I play and I really don't care if you like it or not.

Well there you have it folks. This guy started a thread acting like he was worried about the fate of tanking in ESO, when all he wanted was to see if anyone would justify people like him ruining GF.

It looks like you have all your anwsers. I mean if you know what I think and what are my intentions like you know me, like you are some kind of psychic. If you can predict such things then maybe you should also use that superpower to predict when your group will suck playing as tank.

Xebov wrote: »

Swordancer wrote: »

Am I a bad person right now? I don't think so. I am just tired of being a good guy in the game and all I get for that is random guy leaving becouse he can without any consequences. Now Im just beeing them.

It has consequences. The dungeon fidner has a 15minute cooldown. You are also comparing apples with oranges. A tank that leaves because the group is garbage is not the same as a dd that queues as fake tank to short cut the queue. There is a huge difference.

You might have read the comments in this thread, but i have the feeling you didnt understand them. Tanks are not slaves to DD players that are just there to service them. We are equals to them. As equals we can expect them to put as much work in their characters as we put in ours. In most cases this is not the case. We have to learn mechanics and get propper gear to work well, but we have to deal with players that dont bother about mechanics and often dont even bother to get propper basic builds going because Tanks are there to compensate for this. We are getting disrespected on a regular basis by attacks from players that dont appriciate us because tehy think we have to service them. The time we spend in group content gets disrespected by players that expect us to farm for weeks for gear but dont want to spend 5 minutes by themselves to get some basic stuff going. If you think we should leave such groups be my guest, make a Tank and walk some miles in our boots. Some weeks down the road you will come here and say the exact ssame things we do.

Point me to the moment where I wrote that tanks are DDs slaves. I got tank too, I just not playing it with strangers, only people I know or guildmates. If you think that fake tanks are bad, I 100% agree with you, they are but only when they suck and you don't. I also think that tanks that are lame breaks the game too, same as low DPS you complain about so much around all this thread. Fake DPS healers too. Also noone is forcing anyone to do anything. You can still quit, vote for kick or just deal with it. If you don't suck in normal dungeon you won't die. If I join normal dungeon now as tank beeing DD, and I just started doing that yesterday despite for our psychic imaginations and all of group members were happy when I announced how I will play and we finished all of these dungeons exachanging few items in some of them. If you don't belive me try, that for yourself, take your best DD and see how many people would complain. Few frustrates that are not worth to play with them.

You can think what you want but really I still think that if this is still legal way of playing in this game, then I'll play it that way to save my time which is more important to me that some strangers even if that sounds arrogant. If the game won't change to be more attractive for tanks to play it then I think I just found my own way to addapt to that fact. Remember that noone is foring you to accept playing with fake tank when Im warining you Im gonna rush and Im not gonna drag single mob to myself and certainly not when being the leader of the group becouse this is also a role, beeing leader means leading. Some DD, tanks and healers don't understand that role too and I do not complaining about it at all becouse this is also thier choice to do not listen to the leader that is meant to lead and by saving my time I can leave too and find other group now in few seconds.

One important thing, I can still swap to tanky build during normal if I see people are dying too much becouse they are new just to finish dungeon quicker and get loot. If I see CP300+ that can't take small heat I don't care about them same as you don't care as tank who leaves when you see your DPS folks sucks. This is the same free choice I have as any tank has. You still don't consider that I'm talking about normal dungeons and I am definitely not somone who can't finish such dungeons. You confuse my new approach with the problems you experience yourself and if you can't finish the dunegon on normal beeing DPS then you guys definitely suck. And you will not experience such thing with me as long as you know how to play the game properly and do not suck. If you do you simply deserve it same as fake tank on veteran who can't drag any mob deserve to be kicked when people are not prepared to play that way.

Merforum

ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Swordancer wrote: »

I am at the point right now where I just play with DD as a tank do grind items on normal without any respect to the group members and just rushing to get what I want as quick as I can. Being honorable player time is over for me after reading all your comments in this thread.

I am just using lack of tank problem on my advantage to quick get in to dungeon and I don't care if low level people that usually joins me dies or not. If it scares new players away then I don't care becouse it is not my fault that game mechanics looks that way. I dont need to even finish the dungeon becouse all I need is to do not waste my own time and I can quickly join other group again to get few more drops.

I can do this, this isn't against any game rules and everybody who thinks that this is bad then I remind you. Most of you complan about DPS so now just complain little more. Who cares? Certainly not ZoS becous they would change that long time ago and the things are as they are which means same mechanics, same problems.

Am I a bad person right now? I don't think so. I am just tired of being a good guy in the game and all I get for that is random guy leaving becouse he can without any consequences. Now Im just beeing them.

I hope the pugs have the common sense to vote kick you. I sure as hell would.

The other day we had a fake tank, when I was healer, and he said right at the beginning 'i'm a fake tank to do speed run', everyone was cp500+ and it was nWGT where DPS is way more important and no real need for tank, so we said OK' and 'he ran way ahead 2 times everyone said 'at least wait for everyone on bosses or we kick' and he got his mind right and we cleared it pretty fast, about 40K dps. My suggestion is if you are a fake tank SAY SO UP FRONT so people can kick or say OK, that would solve a lot of problems.

I just thought of another reason GF is much worse now and OP's attitude is creating the situation. If many DPS who are OK but think their time is more important than everyone else, so they queue as fake tank, then the pool of OK DPS is getting smaller, and leaving more and more groups with terrible DPS. Whereas if like in the past GOOD/OK DPS would just queue up as DPS then at worst most groups would have one good and one bad DPS, which is OK. This is why good tanks/healers like GF less and less because they get stuck with really bad DPS.

I have 3 pve guilds and did some very good runs with them in the past. But I like the convenience of GF to do dungeons whenever I want rather than coordinating with people. GF is way worse but still sufficient. I also like helping people learn mechs, especially when (usually the healer) tells me thank you, great job. Because I remember and now appreciate when I was <cp400, I learned a lot because people took the time to explain mechs. Just a simple thing like kill all adds fast (I'm talking to you bow dudes on MoS) can be the difference between wiping over and over and doing it first time easily when you have 3 people who don't know.

Swordancer

@Merforum Im saying Im a fake tank, atlast yesterday and today in every in dungeon I grind right now. It is up to them if them wanna play or not. I even asked for addon for quick messages in one of my guilds yesterday and they asked me why, and when I told them they started to laugh becous it is actually a little funny to warn people beinig fake tank so they can live with it or find other group or other member.

Im absolutely do not wanna waste this people time and Im not doing it at all, I can even say Im saving thier time becouse normal for high CP is usually not for pleassure but to grind, daily random, pledge or something else that require quick run. We all don't wann waste our time there.

For now not even single guy complaind about me so I still think it was a good choice to start playing that way to save my own time.

What you wrote, I agree with that but this is your single story, Im not part of it.

Merforum

Swordancer wrote: »

@Merforum Im saying Im a fake tank, atlast yesterday and today in every in dungeon I grind right now. It is up to them if them wanna play or not. I even asked for addon for quick messages in one of my guilds yesterday and they asked me why, and when I told them they started to laugh becous it is actually a little funny to warn people beinig fake tank so they can live with it or find other group or other member.

Im absolutely do not wanna waste this people time and Im not doing it at all, I can even say Im saving thier time becouse normal for high CP is usually not for pleassure but to grind, daily random, pledge or something else that require quick run. We all don't wann waste our time there.

For now not even single guy complaind about me so I still think it was a good choice to start playing that way to save my own time.

What you wrote, I agree with that but this is your single story, Im not part of it.

I'm glad my example helped you because 90% of time that will difference between being hated or not. Problem solved I would say. And nothing to lose for you.

Damn queueing as healer used to be as fast as tank but not today for some reason.

rptrainer

I'm a tank and is my main. Just like some people are saying here, I don't want to waste anyone's time so I'm alone all the time.

I'm still willing to learn though and experience other dungeons but shy me is saying, "Nah, people don't want me."

Sitting next to an Orc in Bangkorai is my only safe haven PC-NA

ForzaRammer

MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

i'd be use dungeon finder a lot more if low output dps are kicked instead of babied

The dungeon finder is probably better without you, if that is your attitude.

Whatever, i just kick the low output dps whenever i can.

ForzaRammer

Merforum wrote: »

ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Swordancer wrote: »

I am at the point right now where I just play with DD as a tank do grind items on normal without any respect to the group members and just rushing to get what I want as quick as I can. Being honorable player time is over for me after reading all your comments in this thread.

I am just using lack of tank problem on my advantage to quick get in to dungeon and I don't care if low level people that usually joins me dies or not. If it scares new players away then I don't care becouse it is not my fault that game mechanics looks that way. I dont need to even finish the dungeon becouse all I need is to do not waste my own time and I can quickly join other group again to get few more drops.

I can do this, this isn't against any game rules and everybody who thinks that this is bad then I remind you. Most of you complan about DPS so now just complain little more. Who cares? Certainly not ZoS becous they would change that long time ago and the things are as they are which means same mechanics, same problems.

Am I a bad person right now? I don't think so. I am just tired of being a good guy in the game and all I get for that is random guy leaving becouse he can without any consequences. Now Im just beeing them.

I hope the pugs have the common sense to vote kick you. I sure as hell would.

The other day we had a fake tank, when I was healer, and he said right at the beginning 'i'm a fake tank to do speed run', everyone was cp500+ and it was nWGT where DPS is way more important and no real need for tank, so we said OK' and 'he ran way ahead 2 times everyone said 'at least wait for everyone on bosses or we kick' and he got his mind right and we cleared it pretty fast, about 40K dps. My suggestion is if you are a fake tank SAY SO UP FRONT so people can kick or say OK, that would solve a lot of problems.

I just thought of another reason GF is much worse now and OP's attitude is creating the situation. If many DPS who are OK but think their time is more important than everyone else, so they queue as fake tank, then the pool of OK DPS is getting smaller, and leaving more and more groups with terrible DPS. Whereas if like in the past GOOD/OK DPS would just queue up as DPS then at worst most groups would have one good and one bad DPS, which is OK. This is why good tanks/healers like GF less and less because they get stuck with really bad DPS.

I have 3 pve guilds and did some very good runs with them in the past. But I like the convenience of GF to do dungeons whenever I want rather than coordinating with people. GF is way worse but still sufficient. I also like helping people learn mechs, especially when (usually the healer) tells me thank you, great job. Because I remember and now appreciate when I was <cp400, I learned a lot because people took the time to explain mechs. Just a simple thing like kill all adds fast (I'm talking to you bow dudes on MoS) can be the difference between wiping over and over and doing it first time easily when you have 3 people who don't know.

Kick the bad dps so they will be more hesitant to que in the future

gatekeeper13

Made the mistake to queue as a tank for today's pledges.

1) DC1: DDs started sprinting and aggro everything in their path, making everything a total mess. I left group immediately.

2) ICP: Got a server kick. Instead of waiting for me to log back in (like I do when someone gets dc), group proceeded in doing the next pledge boss without me. When I got back in the dungeon, the Abomination boss was already cleared, forcing me to re-run the dungeon.

Never doing the mistake to queue in dungeon finder again. Pugs are full of selfish people who only care for themselves and see other group mates as their servants or sth.

Pledges only with guildmates from now on.

Opalblade

I've tanked a lot of end game stuff in other MMOs, and I would like to tank more often in ESO. Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of being required to replace all of my abilities and gear with buffs/debuffs, so I just solo whatever I can instead. I don't mind having support stuff in my build, and I don't mind if I kill things slowly. But sacrificing EVERYTHING just so the DDs can have more fun while I become a helpless punching bag doesn't sound enjoyable at all.