New Ravenwatch - PC EU

NotTaylorSwift

LarsS wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

LarsS wrote: »

I hope the hardcore guilds stay, its after all a bigger challenge to fight outnumbered, without proc sets.

They wont

I doubt that you can speak for all or even a majority.

If some hard core guilds leave I will be a little disappointed, I thought they liked challenges. On the other hand some like yours may only be out for easy AP.

Just saying what I've heard and what people who I have asked have told me. It is most likely that ballgroups are going to leave to cp. If you say at least 2 ballgroups from each alliance then that's 'at least' 24 people per alliance in prime time. There is no way that the population cap for each alliance is over 100. So that's roughly a quarter of each alliance at prime time. Not to mention that I know of solo players and smallscale players/groups that are not going to stay.

It's not me just assuming, it's just common sense based on what lots of people are saying. Then it also seems that a lot of cp players who like no proc do not want to play in no cp, so that is something that will deter people coming from other campaigns. So when you think about the bigger picture it looks as if many players want to leave the campaign yet there is no huge talk of people wanting to join it. Go to zone chat and ask for yourself, you see people telling you they will leave.

The only people i've seen saying that they will stay are the zerg guilds and some solo players. Unfortunately they do not lock out alliances by themselves, even at prime time.

Imo, Ravenwatch will either struggle to reach population cap, have no queues, or just not reach it at all.

Daffen

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

LarsS wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

LarsS wrote: »

I hope the hardcore guilds stay, its after all a bigger challenge to fight outnumbered, without proc sets.

They wont

I doubt that you can speak for all or even a majority.

If some hard core guilds leave I will be a little disappointed, I thought they liked challenges. On the other hand some like yours may only be out for easy AP.

Just saying what I've heard and what people who I have asked have told me. It is most likely that ballgroups are going to leave to cp. If you say at least 2 ballgroups from each alliance then that's 'at least' 24 people per alliance in prime time. There is no way that the population cap for each alliance is over 100. So that's roughly a quarter of each alliance at prime time. Not to mention that I know of solo players and smallscale players/groups that are not going to stay.

It's not me just assuming, it's just common sense based on what lots of people are saying. Then it also seems that a lot of cp players who like no proc do not want to play in no cp, so that is something that will deter people coming from other campaigns. So when you think about the bigger picture it looks as if many players want to leave the campaign yet there is no huge talk of people wanting to join it. Go to zone chat and ask for yourself, you see people telling you they will leave.

The only people i've seen saying that they will stay are the zerg guilds and some solo players. Unfortunately they do not lock out alliances by themselves, even at prime time.

Imo, Ravenwatch will either struggle to reach population cap, have no queues, or just not reach it at all.

I agree, players will leave for cp. Ballgroups, smallscalers, solo players, tryhards wont have alot of players to fight anymore - > they go to cp as well.

Tigor

Yesterday evening started very calm and then suddenly turned into unplayable. Leaving Cyrodiil early. 🌊

WaywardArgonian

I assume the no-proc change will over the course of the next campaign, when the new DLC/update goes live? Or will it be at the start of the new campaign, as that is tonight.

In any case, this was the last 'regular' campaign in Ravenwatch for the time being. I'm gonna miss it as a server to try new things in with less pressure, but no-proc is not for me.

Tigor

How can the DC be locked the whole evening and then suddenly show up with 300 players?

Running over the map from one moment to the other to take everything by zerging, while pact was also locked the whole evening and completely caught by surprise.The population was certainly far over the lock for the DC!!! And that all at the beginning the of the new campaign.

LarsS

The reason was that most DC guilds started later than than the EP guilds did.

Peacatcher

Tigor wrote: »

How can the DC be locked the whole evening and then suddenly show up with 300 players?

Running over the map from one moment to the other to take everything by zerging, while pact was also locked the whole evening and completely caught by surprise.The population was certainly far over the lock for the DC!!! And that all at the beginning the of the new campaign.

DC population bars are often reported as questionable across multiple platforms and servers. Here on PS EU and NA they are often the faction with low population bonus while having enough players to take and hold the majority of the map.

Tigor

LarsS wrote: »

The reason was that most DC guilds started later than than the EP guilds did.

Waiting for ❓

LarsS

Tigor wrote: »

LarsS wrote: »

The reason was that most DC guilds started later than than the EP guilds did.

Waiting for ❓

At 21 CET we had 4 raids from 4 different guilds up on the dc side, it was easy to roll back EP then. Earlier at 19 CET when we started we were alone and just a few and the randoms did not dare to leave Glade. So there is no mystery at all and DC were not more than the EP.

Tigor

LarsS wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

LarsS wrote: »

The reason was that most DC guilds started later than than the EP guilds did.

Waiting for ❓

At 21 CET we had 4 raids from 4 different guilds up on the dc side, it was easy to roll back EP then. Earlier at 19 CET when we started we were alone and just a few and the randoms did not dare to leave Glade. So there is no mystery at all and DC were not more than the EP.

Now it sounds as if the randoms prevented the organised raids to come online, as the DC was locked the whole evening and at 21:00 suddenly all the DC guilds logged on and started to roll over the map. I believe in good coordination, only who/what held back the attack? Did the raid leaders had some kind of meeting and was every other player therefore standing idle for 2 hours? Who can ask for that?

vesselwiththepestle

I don't understand. Usually starting times are determined by a schedule. For example, I run in a group which starts at 8 pm cest. Every week at the same time, no matter what is happening on the map. Because that's when our group members decided to play because of real life, work schedules, or other ESO events they participate.

Tigor

AD and EP have both one bar. AD low pop bonus from the beginning of the campaign already.

What are the population ranges for each bar? Lets guess a bit
0-10 I ?
10-30 II ?
30-200 III ?

I would like to see absolute actual numbers and ranges per bar. The current bar system seems not representative for the populations. Does not sound difficult and would prevent from a lot of questions and confusion.

Pattceht

DC go ZERRRRG. Why always only zerg?

LarsS

Tigor wrote: »

I would like to see absolute actual numbers and ranges per bar. The current bar system seems not representative for the populations. Does not sound difficult and would prevent from a lot of questions and confusion.

I agree, it would be interesting to know absolute numbers. We sometimes have raids in IC, if we are 20+ the pop bar tend to increase, I havent seen the same effect in cyro. I guess that the pop limit is lower in IC. Still one bar in cyro should be at least 20, my guess its more like 30. Locked would then mean some 120 if the scale is linear.

Thraben

Tigor wrote: »

How can the DC be locked the whole evening and then suddenly show up with 300 players?

Running over the map from one moment to the other to take everything by zerging, while pact was also locked the whole evening and completely caught by surprise.The population was certainly far over the lock for the DC!!! And that all at the beginning the of the new campaign.

I'm pretty sure that there is no lock in absolute numbers, just a queue mechanic that slows down the rate of entry into the campaign.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

@Tigor The lock symbol can show up prior to the population actually being 'locked'. Think of it as the following:

0-25% - 1 bar
30-60%- 2 bars
60-85% - 3 bars
85-100% - Lock

I would estimate that total locked population is around 80-100 players per faction these days, maybe less.

But also quite a lot of guilds will gather in cyro for 30m or so before starting which is why you can see the population climbing but no real influence on the map until they start (especially those that tend to run with multiple groups as they want the strength of their full numbers prior to engaging in many fights)

And I'm fairly sure that there is a population hard limit to some degree, it might be slightly flexible but it definitely corresponds to players leaving and joining. You can test this by having someone queue and when they are at 1 in the queue have another person leave, their queue will pop.

Tigor

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@Tigor The lock symbol can show up prior to the population actually being 'locked'. Think of it as the following:

0-25% - 1 bar
30-60%- 2 bars
60-85% - 3 bars
85-100% - Lock

I would estimate that total locked population is around 80-100 players per faction these days, maybe less.

But also quite a lot of guilds will gather in cyro for 30m or so before starting which is why you can see the population climbing but no real influence on the map until they start (especially those that tend to run with multiple groups as they want the strength of their full numbers prior to engaging in many fights)

And I'm fairly sure that there is a population hard limit to some degree, it might be slightly flexible but it definitely corresponds to players leaving and joining. You can test this by having someone queue and when they are at 1 in the queue have another person leave, their queue will pop.

If the total amound of allowed players per faction would be between 80 to 100 then a complete group of 12 players could give a false representation of the population as 48/60 belongs to II and III, and 68/85 belongs to III and 🔒

0-25% ---- 0/0 -- 20/25 I
30-60% ---- 24/30 -- 48/60 II
60-85% ---- 48/60 -- 68/85 III
85-100% ---- 68/85 -- 80/100 🔒

A fixed number would prevent this.

WaywardArgonian

I'm pretty sure the population bars are not accurate, and even display differently for different people. How many times have you queued for a population-locked alliance only to be let in immediately? That said, the bars, while not accurate, are still an indication of how many people are in that faction. So while the difference between 1 bar and 2 bars might not be noticeable at all, a faction displayed as pop-locked is always going to have more players online than a faction with 2 bars.

In regards to map changes, a lot depends on how organized those in the campaign are. DC especially seems to need huge numbers or a coordinated guild push to get anywhere. Just a few days ago, a handful of AD took Rayles from a pop-locked DC. I've often been able to push back DC PUGs with just a few allies to help defend. It's only when the entire server shows up that you start being rolled back to the home keeps/gate. Numbers aren't everything.

red_emu

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the population bars are not accurate, and even display differently for different people. How many times have you queued for a population-locked alliance only to be let in immediately? That said, the bars, while not accurate, are still an indication of how many people are in that faction. So while the difference between 1 bar and 2 bars might not be noticeable at all, a faction displayed as pop-locked is always going to have more players online than a faction with 2 bars.

In regards to map changes, a lot depends on how organized those in the campaign are. DC especially seems to need huge numbers or a coordinated guild push to get anywhere. Just a few days ago, a handful of AD took Rayles from a pop-locked DC. I've often been able to push back DC PUGs with just a few allies to help defend. It's only when the entire server shows up that you start being rolled back to the home keeps/gate. Numbers aren't everything.

Coordination? You mean the DC hive mind of moving entire server in one critical mass? Sure, there's plenty of ball groups but I won't judge their skill, since they are always supported by 50-60 randoms 😉

I'm more interested to see if there will be ANY pact or dominion players left in this campaign at all, since you can no longer bomb or damage zergs in any way next patch 🤔

Thraben

red_emu wrote: »

I'm more interested to see if there will be ANY pact or dominion players left in this campaign at all, since you can no longer bomb or damage zergs in any way next patch 🤔

Of course you can. They just have to stand close enough. Detonation now scales with Stamina/ WD.

Stamina bombers become a thing. As do whole groups of them. Such Stamina ball groups are MUCH harder to defeat than magicka based ones, and even the yell and red guilds who contemplate changing the campaign would be well advised to reconsider.

WaywardArgonian

Is there an AD population of note during any time of day since the no proc change? I played a few times on my Magsorc to kill time but apart from a hot hour during which an AD guild took some scrolls, it was mostly fighting 20+ player DC zergs with literally 2-3 other people to help defend each keep or outpost.

Thraben

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Is there an AD population of note during any time of day since the no proc change? I played a few times on my Magsorc to kill time but apart from a hot hour during which an AD guild took some scrolls, it was mostly fighting 20+ player DC zergs with literally 2-3 other people to help defend each keep or outpost.

Vodka has been seen on the yell side, but yes, your impression is correct. I' still hoping for some kind of truce between the Pact and the Dominion (like the one between DC and the Pact when the yells were zerging) to restore balance to the campaign.

Tigor

The campaign has been non proc for a while now. The population has changed. The balance is still to the DC side, as they are the best organised and have the numbers, especially at graveyard hours. Could have some more AD to make a shift, and prevent low population bonus. Will the alliance lock come back? Would be nice.

Giving the performance a number, it has increased from 4 to 7 (scale: 1 poor and 10 exellent).

vesselwiththepestle

Tigor wrote: »

The campaign has been non proc for a while now. The population has changed. The balance is still to the DC side, as they are the best organised and have the numbers, especially at graveyard hours. Could have some more AD to make a shift, and prevent low population bonus. Will the alliance lock come back? Would be nice.

Giving the performance a number, it has increased from 4 to 7 (scale: 1 poor and 10 exellent).

The good thing about no proc: I don't get hate tells calling me a cheater etc. anymore. This happend pretty regular during the last few weeks of proc (bomber) heaven.

I agree that performance got better, but AFAIK it got better on CP campaign, too. Maybe it's all those calculations from the fighter's guild which got improved (3 calculations instead of more than 30?), maybe it's the hidden synergy/harmony nerf (if you haven't seen the other thread, synergies are bugged right now, possible intentional nerf not in the patch notes), maybe it's the new multi core setting in the video settings. As I have greatly improved performance in pve, too, I assume it is the new video setting.

About population, well. As a DC player I don't see it as my task to help AD, although I would love to see higher AD pop again. I know there are many DC players who would prefer to play as the underdog alliance again, but I personally prefer balanced numbers and big fights everywhere. So I just play less pvp currently and try to do some pve - I still have to fully level my companions and a lot of questing in The Reach and Blackwood to do .

WaywardArgonian

Had some fun fights on Ravenwatch earlier, but honestly, as AD it's just a matter of time before you become so outnumbered that it stops being fun.

sandblack

no proc no cp was great untill the ballgroups came back.. the game works when they are on the other side of the map but as soon they are nearby the game lags to hell and skills wont fire.
*** ballgroups ruining the game for everyone except themselves.
Whatever they are doing, its making the game lag to hell.

/rant off.

LarsS

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Had some fun fights on Ravenwatch earlier, but honestly, as AD it's just a matter of time before you become so outnumbered that it stops being fun.

I hope some AD will come back.

DTStormfox

sandblack wrote: »

no proc no cp was great untill the ballgroups came back.. the game works when they are on the other side of the map but as soon they are nearby the game lags to hell and skills wont fire.
*** ballgroups ruining the game for everyone except themselves.
Whatever they are doing, its making the game lag to hell.

/rant off.

Yes. However, I think the major cause of this is the overlap of many AOE abilities. The only thing that ballgroups do, is spamming AOE abilities - sometimes in a rotation, sometimes in combination with other abilities, but the majority of abilities are AOE abilities. Maybe ZOS needs to reduce AOE circle sizes. Why do we need 8+ meter radius AOE circles? Smaller AOE circles will reduce lag because there are simply fewer people inside the circle. This reduces the number of calculations the server has to do - hence creating some computing space. But I may be completely wrong on this - so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Bergzorn

What is it with you EP always destroying Chal milegate? How am I supposed to zerg Chal if I can't go there in the most convenient way possible?

Jameson18

For those theorizing over population numbers - as far as I know, the pop cap is 80.