Disgusting RnG crown crates rage!

mr1sho

Anne13 wrote: »

I have spent well over a £1000 plus in game gold from crown sellers... total of 11k + crown gems! Multiple duplicates of everything and Still no Radiant Apex Senche Rhat darkfang! I feel depressed! It isn’t right...
rant over.

I feel you're pain 😂

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

Aurielle wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

220 of these crown crates and didnt get a radiant apex. They need to add radiant apex to list of things you can buy with gems.

As long as there are individuals who buy 220 crown crates they won't do that.

Ugly truth, but why appr

Aurielle wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Still scratching my head that so many people would rather berate an unfortunate player who was scammed by chance crates, instead of attacking the source of the problem... the deplorable practice of chance purchases. Smh, humanity.

Crates are definitely scummy... not sure I’d go so far as to call it a “scam,” though. It’s well known that drop rates for the stuff people actually want from crown crates are terrible. We all have a choice to NOT spend over £1000 for a chance to open up a digital mount we want in a video game, but OP decided to go for it.

One would hope that an individual would realize that spending £100 for a video game mount that isn’t even guaranteed is obscene, let alone over £1000.

I get what you're saying... but I'm sticking firm to them being "basically a scam." Would you not feel scammed if you were trying to buy specific ingredients for a recipe, but the grocery store only sold produce via blind boxes? No telling what you would get, and lets say.... tomatoes are the most common ingredient used in recipes and you're trying to make tomato soup (just an example, but imagine a vile store manager doing research to see the most desired products on the market), now tomatoes are only in 1/50 bags. Sounds diabolical, doesn't it? What about fashion. Want a new shirt, but the store only sells clothing via blind bags. No telling if you'll even get a shirt, you might get pants, they might even be for children, or the opposite gender clothing. Plus there's no returns.

Im so tired of people blurring the lines on whether or not chance purchases are an acceptable practice. The short answer is no. The long answer is no! Personal choice can only go so far. The government still tries to stop illegal substances from being sold, even though its a "personal choice" to use them. Why? Because they are bad. This is known. It is studied. Same with gambling, which is why gambling is only allowed in casinos, or on lottery tickets. The government even tries to stop gambling outside of this criteria. So why all of the sudden are so many people quick to defend (maybe not directly, but blaming the victim instead) this greedy, dishonest practice, or make excuses instead of just acknowledging the fact that CRATES DO NOT BELONG IN VIDEO GAMES.

And if you want to get technical, they do share the odds of the crates, but where? On their website... I haven't noticed them in the UI when purchasing crates (unless I'm blind), and even if they are there, why are they so hidden/hard to find? Its dishonest. Yet the best prizes are plastered all over social media, and as soon as you log in, and of course... they are listed (when previewing) rarest prizes to most common. Its all a manipulation of your mind, and of players wallets.

That’s a ridiculous analogy. No produce store or clothing store would bake gambling into their sales practices because people simply would not stand for it.

Let me put this as delicately as I can: Crown Crates exist because people buy them. If they’re a scam, people are allowing themselves to be scammed. Don’t want to be scammed? Don’t participate. If people didn’t buy crates, if they only purchased items directly from the store, ZOS would not sell Crown Crates.

I’m not AT ALL defending Crown Crates. I think they’ve destroyed this game. I’m not about to defend fools who drop thousands on them either, as they are at least partly responsible for ZOS’s continued sale of this trash.

Exactly. The analogy is supposed to seem ridiculous, because that's exactly what chance purchases are: ridiculous, as you said, trash. Chance purchases are a scam, especially if you apply the same concept to, like I analogized, groceries. That was the whole point in me sharing those ludicrous examples. Why think groceries and clothing adopting that practice is a scam, but not video game purchases?

I'm not defending OP decisions either, and you have a golden point. The continued purchase of crates is only feeding the issue, like many have pointed out. But neither of us can control what others do, whether that be players, or greedy companies. The most we can do is at least voice how disgusting they are, vs what I see a lot of: always insulting the OP who spent money on crates... they already learned their lesson. We don't shame crime victims, so why should we shame players who, by design, fell for crates? By their very design, crates are meant to be enticing and addictive. Can you blame someone for just wanting to give it a shot, and then falling down a deep hole? I don't agree that abstinence is the road to change, as there will always be a small percentage of players who can, and will, purchase crates. That is who crates target.

My go to example is EA Battlefront 2. The overwhelming outcry of players forced EA to change... I don't see an overwhelming outcry against crates on these forums... I see arguments over semantics, and insults to character, but not a unified stance against crates. THAT is why nothing changes. Yes, lack of sales is definitely another approach, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. Imagine if the next thread someone posted against crates, it got thousands of comments agreeing that they need to be abolished? Thats a start. Then what? That alone won't do it, but it sends a much clearer message than the countless threads arguing whether or not its gambling.

The dictionary definition of “scam”: a “fraudulent or deceptive act or operation.”

Crown Crates are not fraudulent, nor are they deceptive; we know that the chances of receiving radiant apex mounts are extremely small. Stop calling it a scam and call it what it is: a gross sales tactic that takes advantage of gambling-addicted and/or foolish individuals’ inability to control their spending.

If no one purchased crates, they wouldn’t be sold. The EA example is a bad example because PROGRESS in the game was tied to loot crate purchase. Of course people were up in arms over it. This is just cosmetic fluff that has no real impact on actual gameplay or progress (unless, of course, you consider the fact that ZOS has zero impetus to fix the game because people are literally throwing thousands at them for the chance of acquiring a pretty pony).

Yes, there is deception in crates. That is their entire model. Deceive you into thinking you can realistically acquire any of the advertised goods, but only offering you a chance at obtaining them, after taking your money. And yes, regardless of the reason the crates were removed, they were removed, why? Because of the outcry. Again... semantics. No wonder nothing ever changes.

Aurielle

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

220 of these crown crates and didnt get a radiant apex. They need to add radiant apex to list of things you can buy with gems.

As long as there are individuals who buy 220 crown crates they won't do that.

Ugly truth, but why appr

Aurielle wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Still scratching my head that so many people would rather berate an unfortunate player who was scammed by chance crates, instead of attacking the source of the problem... the deplorable practice of chance purchases. Smh, humanity.

Crates are definitely scummy... not sure I’d go so far as to call it a “scam,” though. It’s well known that drop rates for the stuff people actually want from crown crates are terrible. We all have a choice to NOT spend over £1000 for a chance to open up a digital mount we want in a video game, but OP decided to go for it.

One would hope that an individual would realize that spending £100 for a video game mount that isn’t even guaranteed is obscene, let alone over £1000.

I get what you're saying... but I'm sticking firm to them being "basically a scam." Would you not feel scammed if you were trying to buy specific ingredients for a recipe, but the grocery store only sold produce via blind boxes? No telling what you would get, and lets say.... tomatoes are the most common ingredient used in recipes and you're trying to make tomato soup (just an example, but imagine a vile store manager doing research to see the most desired products on the market), now tomatoes are only in 1/50 bags. Sounds diabolical, doesn't it? What about fashion. Want a new shirt, but the store only sells clothing via blind bags. No telling if you'll even get a shirt, you might get pants, they might even be for children, or the opposite gender clothing. Plus there's no returns.

Im so tired of people blurring the lines on whether or not chance purchases are an acceptable practice. The short answer is no. The long answer is no! Personal choice can only go so far. The government still tries to stop illegal substances from being sold, even though its a "personal choice" to use them. Why? Because they are bad. This is known. It is studied. Same with gambling, which is why gambling is only allowed in casinos, or on lottery tickets. The government even tries to stop gambling outside of this criteria. So why all of the sudden are so many people quick to defend (maybe not directly, but blaming the victim instead) this greedy, dishonest practice, or make excuses instead of just acknowledging the fact that CRATES DO NOT BELONG IN VIDEO GAMES.

And if you want to get technical, they do share the odds of the crates, but where? On their website... I haven't noticed them in the UI when purchasing crates (unless I'm blind), and even if they are there, why are they so hidden/hard to find? Its dishonest. Yet the best prizes are plastered all over social media, and as soon as you log in, and of course... they are listed (when previewing) rarest prizes to most common. Its all a manipulation of your mind, and of players wallets.

That’s a ridiculous analogy. No produce store or clothing store would bake gambling into their sales practices because people simply would not stand for it.

Let me put this as delicately as I can: Crown Crates exist because people buy them. If they’re a scam, people are allowing themselves to be scammed. Don’t want to be scammed? Don’t participate. If people didn’t buy crates, if they only purchased items directly from the store, ZOS would not sell Crown Crates.

I’m not AT ALL defending Crown Crates. I think they’ve destroyed this game. I’m not about to defend fools who drop thousands on them either, as they are at least partly responsible for ZOS’s continued sale of this trash.

Exactly. The analogy is supposed to seem ridiculous, because that's exactly what chance purchases are: ridiculous, as you said, trash. Chance purchases are a scam, especially if you apply the same concept to, like I analogized, groceries. That was the whole point in me sharing those ludicrous examples. Why think groceries and clothing adopting that practice is a scam, but not video game purchases?

I'm not defending OP decisions either, and you have a golden point. The continued purchase of crates is only feeding the issue, like many have pointed out. But neither of us can control what others do, whether that be players, or greedy companies. The most we can do is at least voice how disgusting they are, vs what I see a lot of: always insulting the OP who spent money on crates... they already learned their lesson. We don't shame crime victims, so why should we shame players who, by design, fell for crates? By their very design, crates are meant to be enticing and addictive. Can you blame someone for just wanting to give it a shot, and then falling down a deep hole? I don't agree that abstinence is the road to change, as there will always be a small percentage of players who can, and will, purchase crates. That is who crates target.

My go to example is EA Battlefront 2. The overwhelming outcry of players forced EA to change... I don't see an overwhelming outcry against crates on these forums... I see arguments over semantics, and insults to character, but not a unified stance against crates. THAT is why nothing changes. Yes, lack of sales is definitely another approach, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. Imagine if the next thread someone posted against crates, it got thousands of comments agreeing that they need to be abolished? Thats a start. Then what? That alone won't do it, but it sends a much clearer message than the countless threads arguing whether or not its gambling.

The dictionary definition of “scam”: a “fraudulent or deceptive act or operation.”

Crown Crates are not fraudulent, nor are they deceptive; we know that the chances of receiving radiant apex mounts are extremely small. Stop calling it a scam and call it what it is: a gross sales tactic that takes advantage of gambling-addicted and/or foolish individuals’ inability to control their spending.

If no one purchased crates, they wouldn’t be sold. The EA example is a bad example because PROGRESS in the game was tied to loot crate purchase. Of course people were up in arms over it. This is just cosmetic fluff that has no real impact on actual gameplay or progress (unless, of course, you consider the fact that ZOS has zero impetus to fix the game because people are literally throwing thousands at them for the chance of acquiring a pretty pony).

Yes, there is deception in crates. That is their entire model. Deceive you into thinking you can realistically acquire any of the advertised goods, but only offering you a chance at obtaining them, after taking your money. And yes, regardless of the reason the crates were removed, they were removed, why? Because of the outcry. Again... semantics. No wonder nothing ever changes.

How are the crates deceptive? Are lotto tickets deceptive? Does anyone realistically believe they have a good shot at winning the $20 million jackpot? Does anyone realistically believe they have a good shot at opening up a radiant apex mount? It’s gambling, plain and simple. Gambling is a game you willingly play, knowing that it’s extremely likely you will walk away with nothing.

OP literally has no one but themselves to blame for wasting thousands on trying to acquire a bunch of pixels in a video game.

geonsocal

lesson learned?

Luke_Flamesword

we know that the chances of receiving radiant apex mounts are extremely small

I know, you know - but how many random players know it? There is no information in crown store "you have 0.07% chance for radiant apex you want!". We know it only because some people put efford to collect a lot of data and expose this ridiculous low chances. A lot of people don't check things, if they want buy it, they just buy it.

I don't like, but I don't hate some gambling by Crown Crates - but not with this insane low chances for good prizes! There shouldn't be any trash rewards (you don't pay real money for trash potions) and radiant apex mount should have at least 5% chances of winning. It's stupid to make so much content only for whales and random sales - with healthy chances there should be so much more players really buying this. I think that much more people buying less crates is better than small amount of people buying a lot of crates :P

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

Aurielle wrote: »

How are the crates deceptive? Are lotto tickets deceptive? Does anyone realistically believe they have a good shot at winning the $20 million jackpot? Does anyone realistically believe they have a good shot at opening up a radiant apex mount? It’s gambling, plain and simple. Gambling is a game you willingly play, knowing that it’s extremely likely you will walk away with nothing.

OP literally has no one but themselves to blame for wasting thousands on trying to acquire a bunch of pixels in a video game.

Literally....... that's why people buy them. Its why people gamble. Its a deep psychological.... "Well maybe this time." Short answer, yes, people believe they have a shot at winning the jackpot (because they literally do have a chance), otherwise, preying on that basic human desire/drive wouldn't be such a disgusting thriving market/model. ESO keeps that flame going too by offering gems. This further enforces the need to purchase more, to obtain the item you desire.

Regardless, not posting the drop rates on the UI to purchase crates, forcing customers to check the website is a little deceptive. Advertising that items can be exchanged for gems, but forcing you to add things to your collection first whether you want it or not is deceptive. Throwing in garbage like potions, when they clearly and prominently advertise the big ticket items is deceptive (why not include all nice items then? why throw in useless potions no one wants?). The very fact that these are "not technically gambling" is intentional and deceptive.

And when compared to an honest, direct purchase, made in good faith... these gamble crates are most definitely a scam. Why offer goods at a set price, when you can take peoples money and offer them a chance at all the fancy items you advertised?

As a side note, I'm honestly very shocked/pleased you refer to them as gambling. That's the number one argument that revolves around crates.

Toanis

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

And when compared to an honest, direct purchase, made in good faith... these gamble crates are most definitely a scam. Why offer goods at a set price, when you can take peoples money and offer them a chance at all the fancy items you advertised?

As a side note, I'm honestly very shocked/pleased you refer to them as gambling. That's the number one argument that revolves around crates.

When they hear gambling, most people imagine a smoky room full of card players, floosies and hidden guns. Such places are heavily regulated in most countries, to reduce the potential for crime and to make sure proper taxes are paid.

Loot boxes are more akin to raffle tickets, where the regulations generally come down to "don't let minors buy the tickets", and that's the point discussed in many european governments: when adults can't handle their vices it's their fault alone. Childrens have a lack of self-control and understanding for money, so when a game specifically caters to children, and playfully suggests they should snitch their parent's credit card to continue playing, something needs to be done.

Selling crates with random stuff for virtual barbies is still a type of gambling but more akin to trading cards where you always get something for your money. This stuff is even less regulated IRL, and it comes down to parenting when kids spend their whole allowance and then start whining about how they haven't yet gotten that thing they wanted.

DigitalHype

Everstorm wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

220 of these crown crates and didnt get a radiant apex. They need to add radiant apex to list of things you can buy with gems.

As long as there are individuals who buy 220 crown crates they won't do that.

And those people will always exist. For some of us, the cost is of no financial consequence. There are also those who have impulse control problems. Whether or not you believe this is physiological or not doesn't matter, when it comes to the predatory nature of the system.

The point being missed by many is that because wealthy and/or weak-willed individuals are sustaining this business model, it results in those of us with self-control or lack of funds losing to opportunity to obtain the same commodity without "gambling".

When it comes to adults making their own decisions, they are solely responsible. To a much lesser extent with minors. Of course their parents have that responsibility. But children don't get to chose thier parents. It is still little or no fault of the childs.

This shouldn't preclude an insanely wealthy corporation and its equally wealthy leadership from doing the right thing for more than just the shareholders and bottom line. As a society, we can accept personal responsibility and still not prey on the weak. There are other ways to monetize and still remain successful.

The corporation and its leadership will not change. This will worsen and become more and more manipulated unless there is legislation to change it.

SamanthaCarter

Use tips before opening crates https://imgur.com/gallery/BZFO8Ou

Lixiviant

All I want is a nice house. If only I had enough crowns.

furiouslog

SamanthaCarter wrote: »

Use tips before opening crates https://imgur.com/gallery/BZFO8Ou

I'm trying to relate that link to your advice and I'm coming up short. What tips are you talking about?

Kiralyn2000

Aurielle wrote: »

How are the crates deceptive? Are lotto tickets deceptive? Does anyone realistically believe they have a good shot at winning the $20 million jackpot? Does anyone realistically believe they have a good shot at opening up a radiant apex mount? It’s gambling, plain and simple. Gambling is a game you willingly play, knowing that it’s extremely likely you will walk away with nothing.

Reminds me of an old quote I once saw: "The lottery is a tax on people who can't do math."

TonyDemonLord

Aurielle wrote: »

[snip]

I don’t think we’re having performance problems because people invest money in the game; I think there’s no impetus for ZOS to actually fix the game, because why spend that time, effort, and money when people who don’t play in Cyrodiil are throwing thousands at them for a chance at obtaining a digital mount? The old “vote with your wallet” thing doesn’t affect them when there are people spending more money on the game over the course of a few days than I would spend in an ENTIRE YEAR of subscribing.

[edited to remove quoted content]

Same Here

amm7sb14_ESO

West93 wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone would obsess over mount.

It is one of the few ways we have in the game to actually individualize our characters, because god knows we're not allowed to do that in build and playstyle.

Scrollup

The only people to blame are the players who spent real life money on Crowns on Crates knowing full well its RNG.

Now, unless 98% of players stop using their wallets and start boycotting, until then, ZOS wins.

Elsonso

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

How are the crates deceptive? Are lotto tickets deceptive? Does anyone realistically believe they have a good shot at winning the $20 million jackpot? Does anyone realistically believe they have a good shot at opening up a radiant apex mount? It’s gambling, plain and simple. Gambling is a game you willingly play, knowing that it’s extremely likely you will walk away with nothing.

Reminds me of an old quote I once saw: "The lottery is a tax on people who can't do math."

Hey, even math has to admit that the first ticket you buy improves your odds of winning significantly. The second one, not so much.

SamanthaCarter

The luck scale to 0 i don’t know how to say it in english,try to understand how rng works it’s not very hard

Sanctum74

Scrollup wrote: »

The only people to blame are the players who spent real life money on Crowns on Crates knowing full well its RNG.

Now, unless 98% of players stop using their wallets and start boycotting, until then, ZOS wins.

^This 100%, as long as people keep buying them and telling Zos its an acceptable business practice than they have no right to complain

Jayman1000

This is why people enjoy gambling so much, ain't that a kick in the head?

Just buy some more crates, you're life's going to be beeeeautiful, once you hit that jackpot. any day now.

https://youtu.be/KvYfsbtExoU?t=13

f047ys3v3n

I didn't get it either. Actually, my drops were so bad I didn't even get particularly many gems. Didn't know you could get so many crates with just a blue in them. Guess I have been lucky in the past.

Anyhow, it's a cool mount. I thought it might be worth blowing some sub crowns on a roll mostly because what else am I going to do with them and I figured I would at least get a few cool lesser items for the trouble. Not this time though, nothing interesting at all.

Sorry about your luck. Makes me feel better about mine though for what that is worth.

I should note I have a buddy who has thrown down more than $2.5k and no radiant at all for him so your better off than that guy.

drakthir

Aznarb wrote: »

You play you lose, no one forced you and you already know it's total RNG.

Dunno why people keep spending ton of money in something they know it's a cash grab and then come forum while angry about it...

It's because devs keep putting all the nice flashy cosmetics/housing items/ skins and the rest into lootboxes, it could of gone in the store, game devs made a choice here, they put pretty much everything i want (i like flashy stuff) into lootboxes.
As others have said buying the base game + expansions + eso plus + xbox live monthly sub and then all the nice stuff is out into the gambling boxes... I said it all could of gone int othe store but it could of also be put into the game, they made their choice.

To the people who say it's the fault of the person who spent money on it, you need to remember, they would of never been able to make that choice in the first place without the devs pushing and supplying.

Scrollup

drakthir wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

You play you lose, no one forced you and you already know it's total RNG.

Dunno why people keep spending ton of money in something they know it's a cash grab and then come forum while angry about it...

It's because devs keep putting all the nice flashy cosmetics/housing items/ skins and the rest into lootboxes, it could of gone in the store, game devs made a choice here, they put pretty much everything i want (i like flashy stuff) into lootboxes.
As others have said buying the base game + expansions + eso plus + xbox live monthly sub and then all the nice stuff is out into the gambling boxes... I said it all could of gone int othe store but it could of also be put into the game, they made their choice.

To the people who say it's the fault of the person who spent money on it, you need to remember, they would of never been able to make that choice in the first place without the devs pushing and supplying.

I understand what you saying about Dev being the reason they are to blame, but its not the DEV's fault it's management's fault because they higher up makes the critical business decision. Developers are only pawns hired to do their job.

Having said that, it is still human's responsibility to control their impulsiveness, it kinda like talking about addiction of an addict.

So the more people take a stand and force ZOS business practice we can possibly turn it around and see improvement in terms of gated mounts behind crates.

Because obviously ZOS can simply add all mounts into a list of 100 direct purchase but jeez i wonder why they don't???

[snip]

PS: Why don't people admit the choice they make have consequences?

[Edited to remove Disobeying Zenimax Employee]

volkeswagon

the free crates usually just give potions.

volkeswagon

A good prize to add to crates are free crates

volkeswagon

to the guy looking for the apex mount but has 11k gems can't you buy the mount with gems. Apex mounts are meant to be rare so that few people have them. But having said that I don't like the crown crate concept. It's fun but its gambling which can be financially dangerous for people without restraint.

Elsonso

volkeswagon wrote: »

A good prize to add to crates are free crates

I agree. In each Crate, there should be a guaranteed (100%) drop of a crate from the same season.

volkeswagon

Elsonso wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

A good prize to add to crates are free crates

I agree. In each Crate, there should be a guaranteed (100%) drop of a crate from the same season.

or perhaps previous seasons crates

Lord-Otto

Tehehe. Good luck getting help here!
>x3
And they would charge a lot more than 500 gems. But I'm fairly sure they won't do it.

Aurielle

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I should note I have a buddy who has thrown down more than $2.5k and no radiant at all for him so your better off than that guy.

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

buddy who has thrown down more than $2.5k and no radiant at all

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

thrown down more than $2.5k

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

more than $2.5k

This is why we can’t have nice things, like a functional Cyrodiil.

Raudgrani

If this really is serious: If you spend £1000 to get a mount, you are either very, very "well off" when it comes to money, or you have a serious, serious problem - and that isn't not getting the mount you want. It's pretty spine chilling to even hear. I would feel terrible to say the least. LOL

Things like these is the very reason bureaucrats within EU are lobbying to forbid "loot boxes", I really hope you didn't need that money for anything else... And I am so sad to hear you didn't get that mount. I've had one radiant apex mount, and I've only bought like 10 or so this entire time (mostly with crowns from ESO+); so I suppose I must consider myself VERY lucky.