Disgusting RnG crown crates rage!

Sirvaleen

Aurielle wrote: »

I don’t think we’re having performance problems because people invest money in the game; I think there’s no impetus for ZOS to actually fix the game, because why spend that time, effort, and money when people who don’t play in Cyrodiil are throwing thousands at them for a chance at obtaining a digital mount? The old “vote with your wallet” thing doesn’t affect them when there are people spending more money on the game over the course of a few days than I would spend in an ENTIRE YEAR of subscribing.

[snip]

Anyway, @Aurielle I think we'll have to agree to disagree since we're actually "gambling" about a company's incentive there. You're betting on freezing earnings as being the one incentive needed, and I'm more of the opinion that an investment that doesn't generate profits would be dropped like a hot potato. I'm not implying that I'm right, I have no idea, it's only my perspective, and we're simply diverging on that point.

[edited for discussion of mod action]

mairwen85

Sirvaleen wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

I don’t think we’re having performance problems because people invest money in the game; I think there’s no impetus for ZOS to actually fix the game, because why spend that time, effort, and money when people who don’t play in Cyrodiil are throwing thousands at them for a chance at obtaining a digital mount? The old “vote with your wallet” thing doesn’t affect them when there are people spending more money on the game over the course of a few days than I would spend in an ENTIRE YEAR of subscribing.

[snip]

Anyway, @Aurielle I think we'll have to agree to disagree since we're actually "gambling" about a company's incentive there. You're betting on freezing earnings as being the one incentive needed, and I'm more of the opionion that an investment that doesn't generate profits would be dropped like a hot potato. I'm not implying that I'm right, I have no idea, it's only my perspective, and we're simply diverging on that point.

I think it's a case of 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other.

PizzaCat82

Guys what if... what if




Imagine it...



Just imagine....


What if Apex and Radiant apex didnt have horrible RNG?

I get it that its our fault for buying these even when we know they have horrible RNG.

But what if?

SpacemanSpiff1

don't expect to "win" when buying crates.

on the bright side, at least you used an in-game currency to get them.

scorpius2k1

I would spend a lot more money on ESO if I could just purchase cosmetic items directly instead of gambling.

So in the end, play stupid games, get stupid prizes. Oh, and potions, LOTS of potions.

Don't feel bad for you OP, hope you won't do it again and in the process stop supporting moronic loot crates.

Sorry, not sorry.

LuxLunae

Anne13 wrote: »

I have spent well over a £1000 plus in game gold from crown sellers... total of 11k + crown gems! Multiple duplicates of everything and Still no Radiant Apex Senche Rhat darkfang! I feel depressed! It isn’t right...
rant over.

You should have stopped at $100. Unless the $1000 was over a the life of the game. I don't play the RNG game. I like playing blackjack. You hit or bust or hold. I start with 100 dollars, once I lose my money I walk away. Once I make double, I walk away. Either way I put a huge amount of time as a buffer between the sessions.

I simply do not like gambling. However I do like black jack. Just not enough to blow a small fortune over. I don't believe in the hot hand or the "i've tried this much I know the next one will be it"

My ESO limit is $100 per year. I spent like 80$ summerset year. It was probably $0 two years before summerset and will be 0$ 2 yrs after summerset.

I personally started spending the $100 towards an ACM subscription. When I found out the membership included O'Rielly media, I could not let that go.

Aurielle

Sirvaleen wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

I don’t think we’re having performance problems because people invest money in the game; I think there’s no impetus for ZOS to actually fix the game, because why spend that time, effort, and money when people who don’t play in Cyrodiil are throwing thousands at them for a chance at obtaining a digital mount? The old “vote with your wallet” thing doesn’t affect them when there are people spending more money on the game over the course of a few days than I would spend in an ENTIRE YEAR of subscribing.

[snip]

Anyway, @Aurielle I think we'll have to agree to disagree since we're actually "gambling" about a company's incentive there. You're betting on freezing earnings as being the one incentive needed, and I'm more of the opinion that an investment that doesn't generate profits would be dropped like a hot potato. I'm not implying that I'm right, I have no idea, it's only my perspective, and we're simply diverging on that point.

Obviously, a product that makes no money will be dropped. You’re missing my point, though. Ordinarily, when you have a faulty product and a number of customers stop putting money into that product due to its issues, companies recognize that they will need to fix the product (a) to retain those customers that they might lose permanently, and (b) to mitigate the risk of having to pull all support for the product if it fails and no one buys it.

Crown Crates have disrupted the usual state of affairs. ZOS has enough people throwing money at them hand over fist, that the loss of revenue from cancelled subscriptions is small potatoes. I would have to subscribe for more than five years to match what the OP gambled on that radiant apex mount. More than five years. Why would ZOS care about losing me as a customer? Why would ZOS spend the time, effort, and money to fix Cyrodiil and get me back into the game, when they could just focus on preying on more people like the OP?

RNG crates are a scummy system, and they’re destroying video games.

Darkstorne

Anne13 wrote: »

JTD wrote: »

Working as intended.

Anne13 wrote: »

I have spent well over a £1000 plus in game gold from crown sellers... total of 11k + crown gems! Multiple duplicates of everything and Still no Radiant Apex Senche Rhat darkfang! I feel depressed! It isn’t right...
rant over.

You dear person are the reason this industry goes to *** with these kind of practices.

Please elaborate

He means that when players are happy to drop literally thousands of pounds chasing some digital pixels that in most other AAA MMOs would be in-game rewards or direct sale for £10-20, it shouldn't be surprising to see why ZOS have doubled down on crates (and other lucrative whale hunting tactics like overpriced housing and furnishings) while actual gameplay content in expansions has become progressively lighter in content and weaker in quality over the years. As a playerbase we're rewarding ZOS financially for the crown crate bull**** much more than for quality gameplay content. And until these players learn to think "maybe this digital collection of pixels that functions identically to the very first free mount I ever received isn't a good use of an entire month's salary..." that's unlikely to change.

And I know, I know, don't tell people how to spend their money. But seriously, give it some thought. Is this what you want ZOS to keep focusing on? And even for those of us lucky enough to have thousands in expendible cash, is this really a good value for that cash? Personally I kinda think a brand new ultrawide monitor or bleeding edge GPU that plays the game at 4k 60-120fps might be a better use of the cash if you love ESO, so that's where my cash is going in a month or two (your move Nvidia)

scorpius2k1

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Guys what if... what if




Imagine it...



Just imagine....


What if Apex and Radiant apex didnt have horrible RNG?

I get it that its our fault for buying these even when we know they have horrible RNG.

But what if?

if... what if




Imagine it...



Just imagine....




Players stopped supporting shady crate bait.


Zenimax put their efforts into actually fixing the game as a top priority after 6+ years and support their playerbase as much as they have supported them.


There was more content like mounts and pets to be earned in game instead of gambling irl money for assets you don't own if you win.


Common sense wasn't a lost art of the ancients.

But what if?
.

DMuehlhausen

Anne13 wrote: »

I have spent well over a £1000 plus in game gold from crown sellers... total of 11k + crown gems! Multiple duplicates of everything and Still no Radiant Apex Senche Rhat darkfang! I feel depressed! It isn’t right...
rant over.

While I agree the RnG is over the top. This kind of is the point to Loot Crates. None of it is required so you don't have to do it. That being said I do think everything that can drop from the crates should be purchasable through the gems. Make the Radiant mounts like 5000 gems or something. People still have to spend a good amount of money to get there or maybe the get lucky, but at least after a point they get what they want.

RobZha

They should have a rule for this : if you're going for the rarest type of mount and have already got all of the ones you don't want, the next time you get a rare mount it should auto trigger you getting the remaining one that you need.

Players would still go through insane amounts of money, but at least there'd be more hope that an end was in sight if you've already dropped the other mounts.

Of course I'd have other suggestions (like most of us would I suppose) that would make the entire way crates work less of a nightmare, but I think this at least would make things a bit better for those that have more of a problem with crates.

Artorias24

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Yep, yet another Cursebound Senche-raht Darkfang.

Drop rates seem higher on those tbh. I've seen a lot of players with that radiant mount, but the other radiants not as much. Imho, I think it's just more crate bait. Not a big fan of the sench-raht personally, they look goofy af when moving but at least this one looks good while doing it hehe.

Not really tho. Rhat is the rarest.

robpr wrote: »

14 out of 21k crates, oof.

PizzaCat82

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Guys what if... what if




Imagine it...



Just imagine....


What if Apex and Radiant apex didnt have horrible RNG?

I get it that its our fault for buying these even when we know they have horrible RNG.

But what if?

if... what if




Imagine it...



Just imagine....




Players stopped supporting shady crate bait.


Zenimax put their efforts into actually fixing the game as a top priority after 6+ years and support their playerbase as much as they have supported them.


There was more content like mounts and pets to be earned in game instead of gambling irl money for assets you don't own if you win.


Common sense wasn't a lost art of the ancients.

But what if?
.

1. Its the only way to get new mounts that aren't indriks or boring reskins for chapters.
2. If you have the crowns (or gold) and nothing to spend it on, its a somewhat fun diversion, as long as you know you wont get what you really want.
3. They are trying to fix the game and have been trying to fix it for years now.
4. The population of players that don't have any problems with the game still needs new content and no one's going to play a fixed game if there's nothing new to do.

Joy_Division

1-800- GAMBLER

scorpius2k1

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Anne13 wrote: »

I have spent well over a £1000 plus in game gold from crown sellers... total of 11k + crown gems! Multiple duplicates of everything and Still no Radiant Apex Senche Rhat darkfang! I feel depressed! It isn’t right...
rant over.

While I agree the RnG is over the top. This kind of is the point to Loot Crates. None of it is required so you don't have to do it. That being said I do think everything that can drop from the crates should be purchasable through the gems. Make the Radiant mounts like 5000 gems or something. People still have to spend a good amount of money to get there or maybe the get lucky, but at least after a point they get what they want.

Or just do away with gems and crates paywalls altogether. Why not just have the option to buy them outright with crowns and also put them in the game as an earnable option as well? I would "gamble" a lot more players would spend a lot more money if RNG wasn't pointed at their wallets. Mine will never be one of them.

Seems a lot more legitimate to get what you want instead of being another cog in the money milking machine. Imho, of course.

Sindala

Enjoy the crown crates (or not) whilst you can.
In the EU they will be outright banned soon enough.

RobZha

Wow I've just looked this up, I checked in game and can't even see that these radiant mounts exist (all I see is apex but not radiant apex, maybe they can be seen but I didn't know where to check) and then I read somewhere that you can't even have the hope of extracting gems for the mount because it can't be bought with gems. No wonder some players are having serious issues with this.

I got into a bit of a problem with this once (the only time I've had the issue luckily because I don't usually buy crates) but at least knew that at some point I'd reach the amount of gems needed to get the mount I wanted, sad that there's not even an option here with radiant.

Myyth

LadyNalcarya

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Yep, yet another Cursebound Senche-raht Darkfang.

Drop rates seem higher on those tbh. I've seen a lot of players with that radiant mount, but the other radiants not as much. Imho, I think it's just more crate bait. Not a big fan of the sench-raht personally, they look goofy af when moving but at least this one looks good while doing it hehe.

I don't think they are actually that high, if crown tracker is to be trusted. A lot of people buy these crates so there will always be some lucky ones who got apexes from their first few crates. It was the same with free crates back in the days, me and my friends got a few apexes (not radiants, but still nice). But this possibility is nothing more than a carrot on a stick for other players. Lucky players tend to show off their mounts (understandably so) and the rest will think that getting them is more realistic than it actually is.

HankTwo

You did the exact thing ZOS wanted you to do. Personally, I find it utter ridiculous that people are willing to pay this amount of money for a chance of getting an ingame cosmetic item. I mean think about what you can do with 1000£ in real life!

Spending that sum on gambling crates means the buyer is either rich, and its just pocket exchange for him/her, or they got some real gamblig problem going on. The fact that gaming companies, just like casinos but without the obvious gambling warnings, target the latter type of person is pretty disgusting, imo.

Lord-Otto

RobZha wrote: »

Wow I've just looked this up, I checked in game and can't even see that these radiant mounts exist (all I see is apex but not radiant apex, maybe they can be seen but I didn't know where to check) and then I read somewhere that you can't even have the hope of extracting gems for the mount because it can't be bought with gems. No wonder some players are having serious issues with this.

I got into a bit of a problem with this once (the only time I've had the issue luckily because I don't usually buy crates) but at least knew that at some point I'd reach the amount of gems needed to get the mount I wanted, sad that there's not even an option here with radiant.

You have to inspect the crates' details to see a list of EVERYTHING, including radiant apexes and the sweetroll.
Clown crates were advertised to have the gem economy for everything, to not create situations like this. But two or three seasons in, ZOS changed their minds and went whaling with radiant apexes. Because OF COURSE they did!

RobZha

Lord-Otto wrote: »

You have to inspect the crates' details to see a list of EVERYTHING, including radiant apexes and the sweetroll.
Clown crates were advertised to have the gem economy for everything, to not create situations like this. But two or three seasons in, ZOS changed their minds and went whaling with radiant apexes. Because OF COURSE they did!

Thanks! Just logged back in and can now see the list. Strange that they can't even be seen unless you do that, and hopefully these are made less of a problem to get in the future.

daemonios

I'm sorry OP, but you're gambling away your money. I realize it's yours to spend as you see fit, but taking part in gambling activities and complaining you didn't win is very weird to me. If you want to be able to purchase stuff outright, instead of buying a chance to get it, then please don't gamble on loot crates.

As for me, they lost me the minute they added in-game purchases at all. From that moment, loot crates were more or less inevitable. Not that I find cramming overpriced virtual cosmetics into a virtual store is much better than stuffing them inside a virtual create.

UGotBenched91

Anne13 wrote: »

I have spent well over a £1000 plus in game gold from crown sellers... total of 11k + crown gems! Multiple duplicates of everything and Still no Radiant Apex Senche Rhat darkfang! I feel depressed! It isn’t right...
rant over.

Yeah most of the good crate items have like a 3% or below chance. No thanks. This is were ESO fails hard. I’d rather pay a monthly fee for game and be able to earn items in game.

Shantu

Gambling is a game. You should only invest what you're willing to lose. If you're ruing about the results, there is likely some pathology involved and it's time to stop.

ACESsiggy

Anne13 wrote: »

I have spent well over a £1000 plus in game gold from crown sellers... total of 11k + crown gems! Multiple duplicates of everything and Still no Radiant Apex Senche Rhat darkfang! I feel depressed! It isn’t right...
rant over.

I feel ya... IN game Casinos and Vegas gambling isn't for everyone. Politicians have to tried to stop gambling in game with with chance loot.

Everstorm

Sindala wrote: »

Enjoy the crown crates (or not) whilst you can.
In the EU they will be outright banned soon enough.

I admire your optimism regarding the speed of the EU decision making process...

Rexy18

You spent £1000+ on coloured pixels?

Kiralyn2000

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

don't expect to "win" when buying crates.

Yeah, this is how I deal with crates. I never open them expecting or wanting to get the Big Prizes. I only open them if I'm interested in the mid-range stuff. (well, and only if I can get them with in-game resources. Free giveaways, buying keys on auction houses, whatever each particular game allows)


I love when a game gives you free sample crates - opening them is a great reminder not to waste $ on the things.

DigitalHype

As far as I know, ZoS doesn't publish the odds. They have also never confirmed this is pure RNG and not manipulated based on player data. The odds that we see posted are derived from aggregate player data via addon's. Unless ZoS officially tells us otherwise, we have to assume that customer A's chance may or may not be the same as customer B's at any given time.