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Disgusting RnG crown crates rage!
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_adhyffbjjjf12✭✭✭✭✭CelestialSlayer wrote: »_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »CelestialSlayer wrote: »What i am more disappointed about is that Zenimax seem to have no concern for the addictiveness of this to their gamers. Gambling addiction is a serious mental health issue, and the fact that you have been able to spend such absurd amounts of money on absolutely nothing of worth because of the gambling aspect does call into question the ethics of Zenimax. I believe these kind of practices need to be regulated more and the health and well being of all players needs to be taken more seriously. Not just in this game, but all games that have loot boxes and gambling as part of their revenue generation.CelestialSlayer wrote: »What i am more disappointed about is that Zenimax seem to have no concern for the addictiveness of this to their gamers. Gambling addiction is a serious mental health issue, and the fact that you have been able to spend such absurd amounts of money on absolutely nothing of worth because of the gambling aspect does call into question the ethics of Zenimax. I believe these kind of practices need to be regulated more and the health and well being of all players needs to be taken more seriously. Not just in this game, but all games that have loot boxes and gambling as part of their revenue generation.
This isn't gambling for money where the prospect is winning more money, this is rolling a dice for some cosmetic pixels that you dont need to play the game. The mistake is that some people don't understand probability and don't take responsibility for their own actions.
You don’t need to win money for it to be considered gambling. But I get your point, but all gambling addicts fail at self control as do most addicts. Doesn’t invalidate my point though.
They do, Man has been gambling since the dawn of time, and generally for a lot more than pixels, and for some people it becomes an issue. The solution however is that these people need to seek help, its no different to people who are overweight because they eat too much, and the answer is the same - learning to self regulate, because nothing else works really.
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WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have spent well over a £1000 plus in game gold from crown sellers... total of 11k + crown gems! Multiple duplicates of everything and Still no Radiant Apex Senche Rhat darkfang! I feel depressed! It isn’t right...
rant over.
Hopefully countries around the world will step up into a leadership role and ban ESO and any game that relies on predatory real money gambling addiction psychology like radiant apexus.4 -
Snowgoons✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »I have spent well over a £1000 plus in game gold from crown sellers... total of 11k + crown gems! Multiple duplicates of everything and Still no Radiant Apex Senche Rhat darkfang! I feel depressed! It isn’t right...
rant over.
Hopefully countries around the world will step up into a leadership role and ban ESO and any game that relies on predatory real money gambling addiction psychology like radiant apexus.
how is it predatory when you can look at anyone opening lootboxes on youtube and see exactly what you're getting into before?
There's thousands of videos and the ones where they get an apex mount = 4353453434 crown gems, and just do it as part of their youtube to show off the mount.
How is this predatory? You don't even need anything in the boxes....
They have an entire crown store where you can buy EXACTLY what you see.
You gonna sue Breyer's Ice Cream when you die after eating 72 tubs in one sitting?Rollin' round Tamriel on that skooma wasted like a failed Grand Theft Auto mission.1 -
WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭scorpius2k1 wrote: »I don't know how many times I've seen someone standing at an enclave or busy area trying to garner attention from their new fancy mount they bought with crates and it doesn't incite the reaction they had hoped for the money they spent getting it. There isn't anything to talk about other than "hey, cool mount" and it's done. Then you see another person that has been able to earn content in the game and there is a lot more interest "where did you get that", etc because they haven't already seen it on the front page of the crown store available "For A Limited Time".
This right here. You understand the fundamentally flawed logic behind this predatory gambling addiction psychology marketing the company has pushed since crown crates were shoehorned into the game.
They are clearly taking advantage of a specific type of personality, one who feels lonely and unrecognized and craves attention. However, it is folly to imagine this hole in their life could possibly be filled by whipping out their credit card.
It would be like buying gold medals on eBay and honestly believing you were transformed into some kind of champion.
The whole premise is flawed because how can you possibly be proud of something you yourself did not create, did nothing to earn, and which required no special skills, knowledge, talent, or effort on your part beyond blowing your paycheck on a slot machine.
This is why crown crates are a fundamentally immoral, manipulative, and predatory business practice that should be made criminal and banned so that companies are hurt financially for hurting customers psychologically. That is the only way to achieve balance, because greed will not regulate itself.
Edited by WhyMustItBe on August 7, 2020 8:09PM7 -
Snowgoons✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »They are clearly taking advantage of a specific type of personality, one who feels lonely and unrecognized and craves attention. However, it is folly to imagine this hole in their life could possibly be filled by whipping out their credit care.
So are they taking advantage of you and your life's expectancy by making a game you enjoy and detracting from your everyday life?
You gonna blame ZOS when you lose your job because you stayed up to 4am doing vMA?
It's not the companies fault if you can't control yourself. It's yours and your responsibility to not put yourself in that situation.Rollin' round Tamriel on that skooma wasted like a failed Grand Theft Auto mission.2 -
![[Deleted User]](https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/06301530861bfae62d56b72eef4ac33d.png)
[Deleted User]Soul ShrivenHello everyone,
Recently we've had to remove several posts for baiting, flaming and politics, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.
Thank you for understanding.0 -
Scion_of_Yggdrasil✭✭✭✭✭Still scratching my head that so many people would rather berate an unfortunate player who was scammed by chance crates, instead of attacking the source of the problem... the deplorable practice of chance purchases. Smh, humanity.11
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scorpius2k1✭✭✭✭✭
✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »They are clearly taking advantage of a specific type of personality, one who feels lonely and unrecognized and craves attention. However, it is folly to imagine this hole in their life could possibly be filled by whipping out their credit care.
So are they taking advantage of you and your life's expectancy by making a game you enjoy and detracting from your everyday life?
You gonna blame ZOS when you lose your job because you stayed up to 4am doing vMA?
It's not the companies fault if you can't control yourself. It's yours and your responsibility to not put yourself in that situation.
Hmm. I see you're point but not sure I can agree there. Isn't that like saying someone who is depressed, has bad anxiety, etc has complete control over their emotions or am I way off base here? Things like gambling crates feed directly off of our reward system, hence so many feeling the emotional response to keep feeding into it until they get something back. Imho there is a lot more to it than just impulsiveness and a company should take personal responsibility at some point for providing the outlet in the first place.🌎 PC/NA
🐧 Linux (Arch)
🧑💻 ESO Addon Dev
⚔️ Stamplar | Magplar | Stamcro | Magsorc | Magcro Healer8 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »Still scratching my head that so many people would rather berate an unfortunate player who was scammed by chance crates, instead of attacking the source of the problem... the deplorable practice of chance purchases. Smh, humanity.
Crates are definitely scummy... not sure I’d go so far as to call it a “scam,” though. It’s well known that drop rates for the stuff people actually want from crown crates are terrible. We all have a choice to NOT spend over £1000 for a chance to open up a digital mount we want in a video game, but OP decided to go for it.
One would hope that an individual would realize that spending £100 for a video game mount that isn’t even guaranteed is obscene, let alone over £1000.
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volkeswagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rng has gotten bad. 3 years and still no sparkling sweetroll. I use gold to have crates gifted now so I don't feel as ripped off2 -
DarcyMardin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I was 7 years old and living in England for a time (usually I live in the US). I had a few pennies, which were huge coppery things back then (1955). I was exploring the pier on the seafront in Worthing and found what I know now was a slot machine. You put coins in and sometimes even more coins came back out. (I was a kid).
So I tried it. I got lucky. I started with 6 pennies and soon I had 11. I thought, “if I get 1 more penny I can turn it into a shiny silvery shilling.” Instead I lost all my pennies. I cried.
But it taught me, at a tender age, never to gamble. Thus, I have never bought a crown crate, no matter how shiny the mount.
And yes, I am 72 — one of the oldsters playing this game.10 -
Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's amazing that this topic never ceases to *** me off, no matter how many times I've seen it posted over the years. I honestly hope that the people responsible for gambling in video games suffer a terrible fate.4 -
Everstorm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »They are clearly taking advantage of a specific type of personality, one who feels lonely and unrecognized and craves attention. However, it is folly to imagine this hole in their life could possibly be filled by whipping out their credit care.
So are they taking advantage of you and your life's expectancy by making a game you enjoy and detracting from your everyday life?
You gonna blame ZOS when you lose your job because you stayed up to 4am doing vMA?
It's not the companies fault if you can't control yourself. It's yours and your responsibility to not put yourself in that situation.
Do you feel the same about people dying of lung cancer after decades of being addicted to smoking because tobacco companies put in chemicals to make them more addictive?2 -
Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »They are clearly taking advantage of a specific type of personality, one who feels lonely and unrecognized and craves attention. However, it is folly to imagine this hole in their life could possibly be filled by whipping out their credit care.
So are they taking advantage of you and your life's expectancy by making a game you enjoy and detracting from your everyday life?
You gonna blame ZOS when you lose your job because you stayed up to 4am doing vMA?
It's not the companies fault if you can't control yourself. It's yours and your responsibility to not put yourself in that situation.
Do you feel the same about people dying of lung cancer after decades of being addicted to smoking because tobacco companies put in chemicals to make them more addictive?
Or the sugar/corn syrup industry with obesity and diabetes, essentially bribing health scientists to not report the negative side effects of their products. Or vegi oil and trans fat producers making up lies about how bad butter and egg cholesterol is. Or the fossil fuel industry cooking the planet... the list goes on and on.
Remember kids, these corporations and their shareholders are not your friends. You may love their products but that feeling is not mutual. They only want your money and as much of it as they can possible squeeze out of you despite any consequence to your health and well-being.5 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »They are clearly taking advantage of a specific type of personality, one who feels lonely and unrecognized and craves attention. However, it is folly to imagine this hole in their life could possibly be filled by whipping out their credit care.
So are they taking advantage of you and your life's expectancy by making a game you enjoy and detracting from your everyday life?
You gonna blame ZOS when you lose your job because you stayed up to 4am doing vMA?
It's not the companies fault if you can't control yourself. It's yours and your responsibility to not put yourself in that situation.
Do you feel the same about people dying of lung cancer after decades of being addicted to smoking because tobacco companies put in chemicals to make them more addictive?
Not this again...
Addiction is a disease, but unless the addictive substance is forced upon you against your will, it always begins with a choice. It is certainly gross that peddlers of addictive products prey upon people who have addictions, and they are at least partly culpable in the damage these substances cause, but that alone does not absolve addicted persons of any responsibility. In fact, an important part of addiction management and recovery involves accepting responsibility. It is counter-productive for an addicted individual to blame anyone for their addiction without also accepting responsibility for their own actions.
The OP had a choice; gamble an obscene amount of money for a chance at a digital mount in a video game with no guarantee, or accept from the outset that the chances of acquiring said mount are extremely low and instead spend that money on something more productive. The OP chose the former, and bears responsibility for that action. While ZOS is certainly scummy AF for introducing Crown Crates in the first place, they’re not responsible for OP’s decision to gamble over £1000.Edited by Aurielle on August 8, 2020 12:12PM0 -
Everstorm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »They are clearly taking advantage of a specific type of personality, one who feels lonely and unrecognized and craves attention. However, it is folly to imagine this hole in their life could possibly be filled by whipping out their credit care.
So are they taking advantage of you and your life's expectancy by making a game you enjoy and detracting from your everyday life?
You gonna blame ZOS when you lose your job because you stayed up to 4am doing vMA?
It's not the companies fault if you can't control yourself. It's yours and your responsibility to not put yourself in that situation.
Do you feel the same about people dying of lung cancer after decades of being addicted to smoking because tobacco companies put in chemicals to make them more addictive?
Not this again...
Addiction is a disease, but unless the addictive substance is forced upon you against your will, it always begins with a choice. It is certainly gross that peddlers of addictive products prey upon people who have addictions, and they are at least partly culpable in the damage these substances cause, but that alone does not absolve addicted persons of any responsibility. In fact, an important part of addiction management and recovery involves accepting responsibility. It is counter-productive for an addicted individual to blame anyone for their addiction without also accepting responsibility for their own actions.
The OP had a choice; gamble an obscene amount of money for a chance at a digital mount in a video game with no guarantee, or accept from the outset that the chances of acquiring said mount are extremely low and instead spend that money on something more productive. The OP chose the former, and bears responsibility for that action. While ZOS is certainly scummy AF for introducing Crown Crates in the first place, they’re not responsible for OP’s decision to gamble over £1000.
But not everybody is equally equipped to withstand temptation. And companies certainly know this and will ruthlessly take advantage of it if it means making more money.
Depending on people's personal responsibility only goes so far. Just look at the current health crisis, it would be a non issue if people simply followed common sense.6 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »They are clearly taking advantage of a specific type of personality, one who feels lonely and unrecognized and craves attention. However, it is folly to imagine this hole in their life could possibly be filled by whipping out their credit care.
So are they taking advantage of you and your life's expectancy by making a game you enjoy and detracting from your everyday life?
You gonna blame ZOS when you lose your job because you stayed up to 4am doing vMA?
It's not the companies fault if you can't control yourself. It's yours and your responsibility to not put yourself in that situation.
Do you feel the same about people dying of lung cancer after decades of being addicted to smoking because tobacco companies put in chemicals to make them more addictive?
Not this again...
Addiction is a disease, but unless the addictive substance is forced upon you against your will, it always begins with a choice. It is certainly gross that peddlers of addictive products prey upon people who have addictions, and they are at least partly culpable in the damage these substances cause, but that alone does not absolve addicted persons of any responsibility. In fact, an important part of addiction management and recovery involves accepting responsibility. It is counter-productive for an addicted individual to blame anyone for their addiction without also accepting responsibility for their own actions.
The OP had a choice; gamble an obscene amount of money for a chance at a digital mount in a video game with no guarantee, or accept from the outset that the chances of acquiring said mount are extremely low and instead spend that money on something more productive. The OP chose the former, and bears responsibility for that action. While ZOS is certainly scummy AF for introducing Crown Crates in the first place, they’re not responsible for OP’s decision to gamble over £1000.
But not everybody is equally equipped to withstand temptation. And companies certainly know this and will ruthlessly take advantage of it if it means making more money.
Depending on people's personal responsibility only goes so far. Just look at the current health crisis, it would be a non issue if people simply followed common sense.
This has nothing to do with temptation or willpower. Again, ultimately: OP had a choice to not spend over £1000 on a chance at acquiring a mount. They are responsible for their actions. Absolving addicts (or even just people who make poor choices) of responsibility for their actions does not help them whatsoever.
Hopefully the OP has learned an important lesson, and will think twice before throwing money hand over fist (the equivalent of many people’s entire monthly wages) for a digital product that is not even guaranteed, and that they will only have for as long as the servers are up and running.2 -
JTD✭✭✭Just take out the crown crates and make those items purchasable directly. I'll even buy a mount or a skin/emote if that were the case. I will not however buy a crate and RNG my way. People who spend 1000 pounds on crates will spend 50 pounds on an apex superdelux mount.4 -
Scion_of_Yggdrasil✭✭✭✭✭Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »Still scratching my head that so many people would rather berate an unfortunate player who was scammed by chance crates, instead of attacking the source of the problem... the deplorable practice of chance purchases. Smh, humanity.
Crates are definitely scummy... not sure I’d go so far as to call it a “scam,” though. It’s well known that drop rates for the stuff people actually want from crown crates are terrible. We all have a choice to NOT spend over £1000 for a chance to open up a digital mount we want in a video game, but OP decided to go for it.
One would hope that an individual would realize that spending £100 for a video game mount that isn’t even guaranteed is obscene, let alone over £1000.
I get what you're saying... but I'm sticking firm to them being "basically a scam." Would you not feel scammed if you were trying to buy specific ingredients for a recipe, but the grocery store only sold produce via blind boxes? No telling what you would get, and lets say.... tomatoes are the most common ingredient used in recipes and you're trying to make tomato soup (just an example, but imagine a vile store manager doing research to see the most desired products on the market), now tomatoes are only in 1/50 bags. Sounds diabolical, doesn't it? What about fashion. Want a new shirt, but the store only sells clothing via blind bags. No telling if you'll even get a shirt, you might get pants, they might even be for children, or the opposite gender clothing. Plus there's no returns.
Im so tired of people blurring the lines on whether or not chance purchases are an acceptable practice. The short answer is no. The long answer is
no! Personal choice can only go so far. The government still tries to stop illegal substances from being sold, even though its a "personal choice" to use them. Why? Because they are bad. This is known. It is studied. Same with gambling, which is why gambling is only allowed in casinos, or on lottery tickets. The government even tries to stop gambling outside of this criteria. So why all of the sudden are so many people quick to defend (maybe not directly, but blaming the victim instead) this greedy, dishonest practice, or make excuses instead of just acknowledging the fact that CRATES DO NOT BELONG IN VIDEO GAMES.
And if you want to get technical, they do share the odds of the crates, but where? On their website... I haven't noticed them in the UI when purchasing crates (unless I'm blind), and even if they are there, why are they so hidden/hard to find? Its dishonest. Yet the best prizes are plastered all over social media, and as soon as you log in, and of course... they are listed (when previewing) rarest prizes to most common. Its all a manipulation of your mind, and of players wallets.4 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »Doesn't the UK have laws now to protect people from that.
Its in proposal.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53253195
Belgium actually did ban them in 2018, but I'm not sure if that has had any bearing.
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-49674333
In particular, most regulation pertains to safeguarding minors and not adults. With ESO being an M rated game, it would be relatively untouched by much of the regulations.
Edited by mairwen85 on August 10, 2020 1:47PM0 -
Toanis✭✭✭✭✭As seen above, the odds are roughly 0.29% but that doesn't mean you'll actually get 29 after 10 000 crates. You could very well get none and it won't make the next 10 000 crates contain it either.
There is no guarantees for anything.
Statistically, the chance of not getting the mount in 100 crates is 0.9971^100 = 74.8%, that's not odds I'd bet 300+ bucks on.
Even with 1000 crates, there's still a 5.5% chance that you won't get one.Edited by Toanis on August 10, 2020 2:22PM0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »Still scratching my head that so many people would rather berate an unfortunate player who was scammed by chance crates, instead of attacking the source of the problem... the deplorable practice of chance purchases. Smh, humanity.
Crates are definitely scummy... not sure I’d go so far as to call it a “scam,” though. It’s well known that drop rates for the stuff people actually want from crown crates are terrible. We all have a choice to NOT spend over £1000 for a chance to open up a digital mount we want in a video game, but OP decided to go for it.
One would hope that an individual would realize that spending £100 for a video game mount that isn’t even guaranteed is obscene, let alone over £1000.
I get what you're saying... but I'm sticking firm to them being "basically a scam." Would you not feel scammed if you were trying to buy specific ingredients for a recipe, but the grocery store only sold produce via blind boxes? No telling what you would get, and lets say.... tomatoes are the most common ingredient used in recipes and you're trying to make tomato soup (just an example, but imagine a vile store manager doing research to see the most desired products on the market), now tomatoes are only in 1/50 bags. Sounds diabolical, doesn't it? What about fashion. Want a new shirt, but the store only sells clothing via blind bags. No telling if you'll even get a shirt, you might get pants, they might even be for children, or the opposite gender clothing. Plus there's no returns.
Im so tired of people blurring the lines on whether or not chance purchases are an acceptable practice. The short answer is no. The long answer is no! Personal choice can only go so far. The government still tries to stop illegal substances from being sold, even though its a "personal choice" to use them. Why? Because they are bad. This is known. It is studied. Same with gambling, which is why gambling is only allowed in casinos, or on lottery tickets. The government even tries to stop gambling outside of this criteria. So why all of the sudden are so many people quick to defend (maybe not directly, but blaming the victim instead) this greedy, dishonest practice, or make excuses instead of just acknowledging the fact that CRATES DO NOT BELONG IN VIDEO GAMES.
And if you want to get technical, they do share the odds of the crates, but where? On their website... I haven't noticed them in the UI when purchasing crates (unless I'm blind), and even if they are there, why are they so hidden/hard to find? Its dishonest. Yet the best prizes are plastered all over social media, and as soon as you log in, and of course... they are listed (when previewing) rarest prizes to most common. Its all a manipulation of your mind, and of players wallets.
That’s a ridiculous analogy. No produce store or clothing store would bake gambling into their sales practices because people simply would not stand for it.
Let me put this as delicately as I can: Crown Crates exist because people buy them. If they’re a scam, people are allowing themselves to be scammed. Don’t want to be scammed? Don’t participate. If people didn’t buy crates, if they only purchased items directly from the store, ZOS would not sell Crown Crates.
I’m not AT ALL defending Crown Crates. I think they’ve destroyed this game. I’m not about to defend fools who drop thousands on them either, as they are at least partly responsible for ZOS’s continued sale of this trash.2 -
sharquez✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only winning move is not to play, plain and simple. It's a shame you had to learn this the hard way. But you played yourself and deserve no sympathy as from the start you should know that nothing is guaranteed.Edited by sharquez on August 10, 2020 2:30PM0 -
Scion_of_Yggdrasil✭✭✭✭✭Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »Still scratching my head that so many people would rather berate an unfortunate player who was scammed by chance crates, instead of attacking the source of the problem... the deplorable practice of chance purchases. Smh, humanity.
Crates are definitely scummy... not sure I’d go so far as to call it a “scam,” though. It’s well known that drop rates for the stuff people actually want from crown crates are terrible. We all have a choice to NOT spend over £1000 for a chance to open up a digital mount we want in a video game, but OP decided to go for it.
One would hope that an individual would realize that spending £100 for a video game mount that isn’t even guaranteed is obscene, let alone over £1000.
I get what you're saying... but I'm sticking firm to them being "basically a scam." Would you not feel scammed if you were trying to buy specific ingredients for a recipe, but the grocery store only sold produce via blind boxes? No telling what you would get, and lets say.... tomatoes are the most common ingredient used in recipes and you're trying to make tomato soup (just an example, but imagine a vile store manager doing research to see the most desired products on the market), now tomatoes are only in 1/50 bags. Sounds diabolical, doesn't it? What about fashion. Want a new shirt, but the store only sells clothing via blind bags. No telling if you'll even get a shirt, you might get pants, they might even be for children, or the opposite gender clothing. Plus there's no returns.
Im so tired of people blurring the lines on whether or not chance purchases are an acceptable practice. The short answer is no. The long answer is no! Personal choice can only go so far. The government still tries to stop illegal substances from being sold, even though its a "personal choice" to use them. Why? Because they are bad. This is known. It is studied. Same with gambling, which is why gambling is only allowed in casinos, or on lottery tickets. The government even tries to stop gambling outside of this criteria. So why all of the sudden are so many people quick to defend (maybe not directly, but blaming the victim instead) this greedy, dishonest practice, or make excuses instead of just acknowledging the fact that CRATES DO NOT BELONG IN VIDEO GAMES.
And if you want to get technical, they do share the odds of the crates, but where? On their website... I haven't noticed them in the UI when purchasing crates (unless I'm blind), and even if they are there, why are they so hidden/hard to find? Its dishonest. Yet the best prizes are plastered all over social media, and as soon as you log in, and of course... they are listed (when previewing) rarest prizes to most common. Its all a manipulation of your mind, and of players wallets.
That’s a ridiculous analogy. No produce store or clothing store would bake gambling into their sales practices because people simply would not stand for it.
Let me put this as delicately as I can: Crown Crates exist because people buy them. If they’re a scam, people are allowing themselves to be scammed. Don’t want to be scammed? Don’t participate. If people didn’t buy crates, if they only purchased items directly from the store, ZOS would not sell Crown Crates.
I’m not AT ALL defending Crown Crates. I think they’ve destroyed this game. I’m not about to defend fools who drop thousands on them either, as they are at least partly responsible for ZOS’s continued sale of this trash.
Exactly. The analogy is supposed to seem ridiculous, because that's exactly what chance purchases are: ridiculous, as you said, trash. Chance purchases are a scam, especially if you apply the same concept to, like I analogized, groceries. That was the whole point in me sharing those ludicrous examples. Why think groceries and clothing adopting that practice is a scam, but not video game purchases?
I'm not defending OP decisions either, and you have a golden point. The continued purchase of crates is only feeding the issue, like many have pointed out. But neither of us can control what others do, whether that be players, or greedy companies. The most we can do is at least voice how disgusting they are, vs what I see a lot of: always insulting the OP who spent money on crates... they already learned their lesson. We don't shame crime victims, so why should we shame players who, by design, fell for crates? By their very design, crates are meant to be enticing and addictive. Can you blame someone for just wanting to give it a shot, and then falling down a deep hole? I don't agree that abstinence is the road to change, as there will always be a small percentage of players who can, and will, purchase crates. That is who crates target.
My go to example is EA Battlefront 2. The overwhelming outcry of players forced EA to change... I don't see an overwhelming outcry against crates on these forums... I see arguments over semantics, and insults to character, but not a unified stance against crates. THAT is why nothing changes. Yes, lack of sales is definitely another approach, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. Imagine if the next thread someone posted against crates, it got thousands of comments agreeing that they need to be abolished? Thats a start. Then what? That alone won't do it, but it sends a much clearer message than the countless threads arguing whether or not its gambling.Edited by Scion_of_Yggdrasil on August 10, 2020 4:18PM4 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SolidusPrime wrote: »[Quoted post was removed]
Because they're unethical.
Gambling has a chance of yielding you more money than you put in. You always lose in the end, but you can theiretically win a gain. Lootboxes offer zero victory. You won't increase your money with them ever. Even if you "win" by getting your Radiant Apex, you actually lose because you still spent money.
It's diabolical and genius. ZOS are creating money out of thin air, no investment whatsoever. And they pull your strings by giving you the illusion of winning while they bleed you out. In this regard, lootboxes function the same way as certain substances.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 10, 2020 3:15PM4 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »
Ugly truth, but why apprScion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »Still scratching my head that so many people would rather berate an unfortunate player who was scammed by chance crates, instead of attacking the source of the problem... the deplorable practice of chance purchases. Smh, humanity.
Crates are definitely scummy... not sure I’d go so far as to call it a “scam,” though. It’s well known that drop rates for the stuff people actually want from crown crates are terrible. We all have a choice to NOT spend over £1000 for a chance to open up a digital mount we want in a video game, but OP decided to go for it.
One would hope that an individual would realize that spending £100 for a video game mount that isn’t even guaranteed is obscene, let alone over £1000.
I get what you're saying... but I'm sticking firm to them being "basically a scam." Would you not feel scammed if you were trying to buy specific ingredients for a recipe, but the grocery store only sold produce via blind boxes? No telling what you would get, and lets say.... tomatoes are the most common ingredient used in recipes and you're trying to make tomato soup (just an example, but imagine a vile store manager doing research to see the most desired products on the market), now tomatoes are only in 1/50 bags. Sounds diabolical, doesn't it? What about fashion. Want a new shirt, but the store only sells clothing via blind bags. No telling if you'll even get a shirt, you might get pants, they might even be for children, or the opposite gender clothing. Plus there's no returns.
Im so tired of people blurring the lines on whether or not chance purchases are an acceptable practice. The short answer is no. The long answer is no! Personal choice can only go so far. The government still tries to stop illegal substances from being sold, even though its a "personal choice" to use them. Why? Because they are bad. This is known. It is studied. Same with gambling, which is why gambling is only allowed in casinos, or on lottery tickets. The government even tries to stop gambling outside of this criteria. So why all of the sudden are so many people quick to defend (maybe not directly, but blaming the victim instead) this greedy, dishonest practice, or make excuses instead of just acknowledging the fact that CRATES DO NOT BELONG IN VIDEO GAMES.
And if you want to get technical, they do share the odds of the crates, but where? On their website... I haven't noticed them in the UI when purchasing crates (unless I'm blind), and even if they are there, why are they so hidden/hard to find? Its dishonest. Yet the best prizes are plastered all over social media, and as soon as you log in, and of course... they are listed (when previewing) rarest prizes to most common. Its all a manipulation of your mind, and of players wallets.
That’s a ridiculous analogy. No produce store or clothing store would bake gambling into their sales practices because people simply would not stand for it.
Let me put this as delicately as I can: Crown Crates exist because people buy them. If they’re a scam, people are allowing themselves to be scammed. Don’t want to be scammed? Don’t participate. If people didn’t buy crates, if they only purchased items directly from the store, ZOS would not sell Crown Crates.
I’m not AT ALL defending Crown Crates. I think they’ve destroyed this game. I’m not about to defend fools who drop thousands on them either, as they are at least partly responsible for ZOS’s continued sale of this trash.
Exactly. The analogy is supposed to seem ridiculous, because that's exactly what chance purchases are: ridiculous, as you said, trash. Chance purchases are a scam, especially if you apply the same concept to, like I analogized, groceries. That was the whole point in me sharing those ludicrous examples. Why think groceries and clothing adopting that practice is a scam, but not video game purchases?
I'm not defending OP decisions either, and you have a golden point. The continued purchase of crates is only feeding the issue, like many have pointed out. But neither of us can control what others do, whether that be players, or greedy companies. The most we can do is at least voice how disgusting they are, vs what I see a lot of: always insulting the OP who spent money on crates... they already learned their lesson. We don't shame crime victims, so why should we shame players who, by design, fell for crates? By their very design, crates are meant to be enticing and addictive. Can you blame someone for just wanting to give it a shot, and then falling down a deep hole? I don't agree that abstinence is the road to change, as there will always be a small percentage of players who can, and will, purchase crates. That is who crates target.
My go to example is EA Battlefront 2. The overwhelming outcry of players forced EA to change... I don't see an overwhelming outcry against crates on these forums... I see arguments over semantics, and insults to character, but not a unified stance against crates. THAT is why nothing changes. Yes, lack of sales is definitely another approach, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. Imagine if the next thread someone posted against crates, it got thousands of comments agreeing that they need to be abolished? Thats a start. Then what? That alone won't do it, but it sends a much clearer message than the countless threads arguing whether or not its gambling.
The dictionary definition of “scam”: a “fraudulent or deceptive act or operation.”
Crown Crates are not fraudulent, nor are they deceptive; we know that the chances of receiving radiant apex mounts are extremely small. Stop calling it a scam and call it what it is: a gross sales tactic that takes advantage of gambling-addicted and/or foolish individuals’ inability to control their spending.
If no one purchased crates, they wouldn’t be sold. The EA example is a bad example because PROGRESS in the game was tied to loot crate purchase. Of course people were up in arms over it. This is just cosmetic fluff that has no real impact on actual gameplay or progress (unless, of course, you consider the fact that ZOS has zero impetus to fix the game because people are literally throwing thousands at them for the chance of acquiring a pretty pony).
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