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The Stonethorn DLC and Update 27 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

I tested many abilities on the PTS to see what they restricted. Here are my results.

  • Kaliki
    Kaliki
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    I find it funny how roughly 75 % of all Templar skills will be on a CD (even if this is just a test and abilities might change later on).
    Seems to fit in well with the Templar design philosophy I have been sporting in my signature for years. Was too lazy to change it, but it is still relevant after all those years. :D
    - Templars: Slower by Design® -
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Vanagrand wrote: »
    Streak it gets restricted, thats good.

    It‘s not. While it may be annoying to you all one needs to do is to slot a gap closer. For every other concern there are cc immunity and cost fatigue.

    Sincerely, a stamsorc
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    Woosters wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    Woosters wrote: »
    T Stonefist (This is unrestricted both when you do the AoE to grab the debris and when you throw it)

    Have you tested Obsidian Shard yet?
    https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Obsidian+Shard

    T Inferno
    T Flames of Oblivion
    T Cauterize

    T Stonefist
    T Obsidian Shard
    T Stone Giant

    I added it. That is an inconsistent result.

    W-w-w-w-wait... so you're telling me that when this AOE test goes live my magDK will become a superior healer in ballgroups granted I can land the shots on people?!? Well, this'll be interesting...
    PC NA
    Breton MagDK
  • Woosters
    Woosters
    ✭✭✭
    Vevvev wrote: »
    W-w-w-w-wait... so you're telling me that when this AOE test goes live my magDK will become a superior healer in ballgroups granted I can land the shots on people?!? Well, this'll be interesting...

    I wouldn't exactly say that, but yes if it remains as it was last night you may have superior burst healing ability if a target is available. It is not consistent with the other similar abilities, particularly nightblade.

    To be specific I am speaking about Render Flesh, Funnel Health, Malevolent Offering, Twilight Matriarch, Rushed Ceremony, and Fungal Growth. It is most similar to Strife/Funnel Health/Swallow Soul. I was expecting to see Stonefist and Stone Giant unrestricted and Obsidian Shard restricted based on how the Nightblade abilities worked. That isn't what I saw.

    I honestly wonder if these abilities were selected by hand and somebody merely forgot this one. The nightblade ability strife already works unusually, but it is a heal over time so perhaps that was the reason. It can select a nearby target at cast time though for a heal. The DK ability is a direct heal that can target two people in range. I am completely baffled by this.
  • SidraWillowsky
    SidraWillowsky
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    Cinbri wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    Elwendryll wrote: »
    Yeah, I tried it during the test 2. Why is Ball of Lightning affected? It doesn't deal any damage, and it already has its own cost increase.

    The cost fatigue debuff increased the cost of all non-ultimate abilities, not only AOEs, as the forum announcement suggested it would. That's also weird.

    I would bet money they implement cost fatigue debuff on every skill and ability, pve and pvp and call it a day.

    It is easy. It is a tested mechanic. It is in production right now with streak and roll dodge. They don't have to go back and rework every class and skill that gets wrecked by targeted AOE cool downs.

    So what you're saying is that they'll abolish the concept of "spammable"? Seriously?


    Hard to call skill that you can cast once per 3sec as spammable anymore :dizzy:

    Dunno if anyone else can confirm this, but I noticed in the PTS that if I hit jabs/sweeps then get interrupted before it can land, the three second penalty STILL APPLIES. Templars are double-screwed...

    Cooldown starting to tick right after you pressing skill cast. Doesnt matter if skill worked or failed, cd will still be there.

    That makes sense and is what I figured, and I also realize that sweeps/jabs still hits partially if interrupted, but... man. At the risk of sounding overly-dramatic, this will destroy the class if it goes through.
  • driosketch
    driosketch
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    ✭✭
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    JayKwellen wrote: »
    As I feared, rapid regen and healing ward are both restricted.

    Welp, if you're a magblade and you PvP guess your only options are to switch to dark cloak, make sure there isn't a single NPC or player within 30 meters of you, or pick a new class to play.

    This change, if it goes through, would leave the magicka nightblade without a single reliable heal other swallow soul.

    Big yikes to sorcs no longer being able to streak and every single mag class that will now no longer have a reliable self heal.

    I hate to be hysterical and say "this will kill ESO", but seriously, any iteration of this will kill eso. Unless the devs exempt critical build items (streak, jabs, etc) and make all single target healing abilities only single self-target (ward, rapid regen, polar wind, breath of life, render flesh), this will at the make magicka completely non-viable in PvP.

    IT'S NOT A CHANGE, IT'S A DATA GATHERING EXERCISE

    Omg people, how many times do people have to say it? This is not the "solution" this is checking, once and for all if the lag is caused by particular AOE skills and if certain restrictions can reduce or eliminate that lag so that they can make changes LATER to work out the SOLUTION that this ISN'T

    they said that when they made Battle gorunds solo queue only

    They also said that when changing the LA/HA mechanic and then didn't implement it, so...

    PS, if they do make any changes, it still doesn't mean it will affect PvE. The test already demonstrates they can turn it on in just Cyrodiil, and we already have something like that with battle spirt, decreased healing, shields and damage. Just saying.
    Edited by driosketch on July 29, 2020 8:54PM
    Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
    ●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●
  • katorga
    katorga
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    driosketch wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    JayKwellen wrote: »
    As I feared, rapid regen and healing ward are both restricted.

    Welp, if you're a magblade and you PvP guess your only options are to switch to dark cloak, make sure there isn't a single NPC or player within 30 meters of you, or pick a new class to play.

    This change, if it goes through, would leave the magicka nightblade without a single reliable heal other swallow soul.

    Big yikes to sorcs no longer being able to streak and every single mag class that will now no longer have a reliable self heal.

    I hate to be hysterical and say "this will kill ESO", but seriously, any iteration of this will kill eso. Unless the devs exempt critical build items (streak, jabs, etc) and make all single target healing abilities only single self-target (ward, rapid regen, polar wind, breath of life, render flesh), this will at the make magicka completely non-viable in PvP.

    IT'S NOT A CHANGE, IT'S A DATA GATHERING EXERCISE

    Omg people, how many times do people have to say it? This is not the "solution" this is checking, once and for all if the lag is caused by particular AOE skills and if certain restrictions can reduce or eliminate that lag so that they can make changes LATER to work out the SOLUTION that this ISN'T

    they said that when they made Battle gorunds solo queue only

    They also said that when changing the LA/HA mechanic and then didn't implement it, so...

    PS, if they do make any changes, it still doesn't mean it will affect PvE. The test already demonstrates they can turn it on in just Cyrodiil, and we already have something like that with battle spirt, decreased healing, shields and damage. Just saying.

    Having two different mechanics for the same skill is totally confusing to casual players. Maybe if the numbers show that pvp players are such in insignificant percentage of the overall game population, they will spare pve. Besides, once they start redesigning skills to fix them after they get wrecked, that will definitely bleed over to pve, and then break things there.

    You'll start seeing previously unheard of requests....

    Pls make jabs single target like Flurry.....
    Pls make HoTD a self heal to balance it with the DK self heal...
    Pls remove the 22% splash from silver shards, its not worth the penalty...
    Pls take the stun and damage off streak, so I can use it for mobility.....
    and so on.

    The test periods will be flocked with single target stamblades hoovering up double AP while the befuddled masses stagger around wondering why skills not firing due to cool downs feels just like skills not firing due to lag.
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    If people don't show up for double AP because their class is unplayable, that's still data. The data is "don't do this, people would rather not play"

    Honestly I think the "not play" people will take one look at this list, see all the holes and work arounds and get some gear out of their bank, change some skills and be totally fine while the PvDoor crowd are going to have no idea what is going on.

    My first thought was shock clench.
    And some cleave sets like blackrose 2h.

    Additionally a lot of these skills won't be negatively affected by a 3 second cool down anyway. it's not like you spam your armour buff or extended ritual, you'll just change your skill pattern to break up the amount of time you cast them. The only things that are really "dead" are spammables like master 2h carve builds or jabs, but you can easily swap out jabs for something else for a week and be totally fine and get all that easy AP farming door bashers.
  • Cadbury
    Cadbury
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    This gives a great (horrifying) view of which classes are likely to see substantial changes to their skills if any of the proposed changes go live.

    At least speaking in terms of equality, no class is safe. Some may have less skills that are affected, but everyone will feel these changes.
    "If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."
  • katorga
    katorga
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    If people don't show up for double AP because their class is unplayable, that's still data. The data is "don't do this, people would rather not play"

    Honestly I think the "not play" people will take one look at this list, see all the holes and work arounds and get some gear out of their bank, change some skills and be totally fine while the PvDoor crowd are going to have no idea what is going on.

    My first thought was shock clench.
    And some cleave sets like blackrose 2h.

    Additionally a lot of these skills won't be negatively affected by a 3 second cool down anyway. it's not like you spam your armour buff or extended ritual, you'll just change your skill pattern to break up the amount of time you cast them. The only things that are really "dead" are spammables like master 2h carve builds or jabs, but you can easily swap out jabs for something else for a week and be totally fine and get all that easy AP farming door bashers.

    Lol. I intend to act out.

    Full Cheese, Stack health, blighted blastbones, defiles, and a bunch of obnoxious aoe proc sets.

    "Buy the ticket, take the ride…and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well…maybe chalk it up to forced consciousness expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten." - HST
  • ExistingRug61
    ExistingRug61
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    Cinbri wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    Elwendryll wrote: »
    Yeah, I tried it during the test 2. Why is Ball of Lightning affected? It doesn't deal any damage, and it already has its own cost increase.

    The cost fatigue debuff increased the cost of all non-ultimate abilities, not only AOEs, as the forum announcement suggested it would. That's also weird.

    I would bet money they implement cost fatigue debuff on every skill and ability, pve and pvp and call it a day.

    It is easy. It is a tested mechanic. It is in production right now with streak and roll dodge. They don't have to go back and rework every class and skill that gets wrecked by targeted AOE cool downs.

    So what you're saying is that they'll abolish the concept of "spammable"? Seriously?


    Hard to call skill that you can cast once per 3sec as spammable anymore :dizzy:

    Dunno if anyone else can confirm this, but I noticed in the PTS that if I hit jabs/sweeps then get interrupted before it can land, the three second penalty STILL APPLIES. Templars are double-screwed...

    Cooldown starting to tick right after you pressing skill cast. Doesnt matter if skill worked or failed, cd will still be there.

    Oh boy, that’s going to be frustrating with lotus fan and it’s hidden cast time, given that it seems to fail for the most insignificant of reasons.
  • ExistingRug61
    ExistingRug61
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    Woosters wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    W-w-w-w-wait... so you're telling me that when this AOE test goes live my magDK will become a superior healer in ballgroups granted I can land the shots on people?!? Well, this'll be interesting...

    I wouldn't exactly say that, but yes if it remains as it was last night you may have superior burst healing ability if a target is available. It is not consistent with the other similar abilities, particularly nightblade.

    To be specific I am speaking about Render Flesh, Funnel Health, Malevolent Offering, Twilight Matriarch, Rushed Ceremony, and Fungal Growth. It is most similar to Strife/Funnel Health/Swallow Soul. I was expecting to see Stonefist and Stone Giant unrestricted and Obsidian Shard restricted based on how the Nightblade abilities worked. That isn't what I saw.

    I honestly wonder if these abilities were selected by hand and somebody merely forgot this one. The nightblade ability strife already works unusually, but it is a heal over time so perhaps that was the reason. It can select a nearby target at cast time though for a heal. The DK ability is a direct heal that can target two people in range. I am completely baffled by this.

    Yeah there are some weird exceptions. The whole stonefist line is funny. Even stonefist/stone giant have their aoe, but maybe it was too hard to put a cooldown on just that part of the skill. And if a cooldown was added to both parts it would be quite difficult to actually use all three rocks and get the stun. Which I guess is an example of how such a blanket condition like cooldowns can’t simply be retconned onto all skills. As far as obsidian shard goes I have no idea why this isn’t affected (likewise strife), given that funnel health is affected.
  • UppGRAYxDD
    UppGRAYxDD
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    I’m going to love my turn-based Templar 😡
    "Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."
  • katorga
    katorga
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    Cinbri wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    Elwendryll wrote: »
    Yeah, I tried it during the test 2. Why is Ball of Lightning affected? It doesn't deal any damage, and it already has its own cost increase.

    The cost fatigue debuff increased the cost of all non-ultimate abilities, not only AOEs, as the forum announcement suggested it would. That's also weird.

    I would bet money they implement cost fatigue debuff on every skill and ability, pve and pvp and call it a day.

    It is easy. It is a tested mechanic. It is in production right now with streak and roll dodge. They don't have to go back and rework every class and skill that gets wrecked by targeted AOE cool downs.

    So what you're saying is that they'll abolish the concept of "spammable"? Seriously?


    Hard to call skill that you can cast once per 3sec as spammable anymore :dizzy:

    Dunno if anyone else can confirm this, but I noticed in the PTS that if I hit jabs/sweeps then get interrupted before it can land, the three second penalty STILL APPLIES. Templars are double-screwed...

    Cooldown starting to tick right after you pressing skill cast. Doesnt matter if skill worked or failed, cd will still be there.

    Oh boy, that’s going to be frustrating with lotus fan and it’s hidden cast time, given that it seems to fail for the most insignificant of reasons.

    The fact that cool downs completely disrupt the intended use of many skills, wreck their functionality, cause unintended behavior, and will require a large number of them to be completely redesigned is why I think they will go with the cost fatigue solution, and apply it everywhere, on every skill, in pve and pvp.

    The cool down options are so radically outside the scope of this game, that they will be fixing bugs caused them for the next 5 years. There is no way they have a fully designed, regression tested solution for them. They have no idea what the downstream impact will be. Cost fatigue, has been in the game for years.

    Cost fatigue is just less work, and the lowest cost way to get where they are headed.

    There is always the psychological manipulation angle (and every game/social media designer should be well versed in manipulation): Present four options, three of which are so horrible to contemplate, that the victim begs for the fourth.
  • Casterial
    Casterial
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    So jabs is affected? Dead class 2k20.

    Interesting move on ZOS part to force a class to use 1 skill the last 2 years, then nerf it to the ground.

    6 years of templar and I won't ever be able to play my class again?
    Edited by Casterial on July 30, 2020 4:50PM
    Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
    The Order of Magnus
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    Combat Is Clunky | Cyordiil Fixes

    Member since: August 2013
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  • Shantu
    Shantu
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    ✭✭

    Woosters wrote: »
    R means Restricted
    T means Tested

    T Radial Sweep
    RT Puncturing Strikes
    T Piercing Javelin
    T Focused Charge
    RT Explosive Charge
    RT Spear Shards
    RT Sun Shield
    RT Blazing Shield

    I know it's currently just a testing phase, but if Sweeps/Jabs get pulled into this 3 sec hard limit, that will be one nerf too far for many. While I suspect these tests are likely to show positive results, I can't believe the staple spammable in a popular class would get totally neutered. Let's hope some wisdom and sanity prevails.
  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    Shantu wrote: »
    Woosters wrote: »
    R means Restricted
    T means Tested

    T Radial Sweep
    RT Puncturing Strikes
    T Piercing Javelin
    T Focused Charge
    RT Explosive Charge
    RT Spear Shards
    RT Sun Shield
    RT Blazing Shield

    I know it's currently just a testing phase, but if Sweeps/Jabs get pulled into this 3 sec hard limit, that will be one nerf too far for many. While I suspect these tests are likely to show positive results, I can't believe the staple spammable in a popular class would get totally neutered. Let's hope some wisdom and sanity prevails.

    I'd imagine they would rework it to be single target. Which would make it a bit better imo. Or, especially for individual cooldowns on skills, they may apply them directly to skills in their tooltips, with the capability to exclude certain skills for whatever reason.
  • Four_Fingers
    Has anyone tested to see if the resource guard NPCs get cool downs or are they gonna make it even harder to solo a resource?
  • renne
    renne
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    driosketch wrote: »
    PS, if they do make any changes, it still doesn't mean it will affect PvE. The test already demonstrates they can turn it on in just Cyrodiil, and we already have something like that with battle spirt, decreased healing, shields and damage. Just saying.

    It's absolutely baffling you think that any changes they make won't affect PvE. The original post literally said they will need to rework the classes, and if you think the class reworks are going to be PvP only, boy have I got news for you.

    One single esy example is if they change jabs to single target, then there you go: they're not just doing that in Cyrodiil, that's going to be a class change across the board. It's automatically, by nature of the fact that the skill has had to be changed because of how it works in Cyro, affected PvE right there.
  • falkler
    falkler
    Soul Shriven
    I don't understand, why Honor the Dead (solo heal templar ability) has cooldown too? Its not AOE. Moreover, why the main heal NB ability - Shrewd Offering has cooldown too? It's solo target ability, so why it has CD?
  • troomar
    troomar
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    Woosters wrote: »
    R means Restricted
    T means Tested

    ?? Nature's Grasp (Nobody to test on)

    Nature's Grasp can be cast on your own bear :)
    Yes.
  • Rianai
    Rianai
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    falkler wrote: »
    I don't understand, why Honor the Dead (solo heal templar ability) has cooldown too? Its not AOE. Moreover, why the main heal NB ability - Shrewd Offering has cooldown too? It's solo target ability, so why it has CD?

    Those skills count as aoe because they have to "scan" an area to find the right target. Tho there are skills that do the same and are not affected by ZOS' restrictions, so don't expect too much logic.
    Edited by Rianai on July 31, 2020 10:13AM
  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    Did someone tested if lightning destructive touch is affected ? The one that does damage to a target then AoE around, is it on cooldown too ?
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
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    I imagine they had some sort of data that lead them to some skills more than others.
    As templars are basically essential in ballgroups there is probably a pretty hefty spike on their graph when it come to their most spammed skills. Jabs made the list for obvious reasons too :lol:

    The list created on the PTS section has a lot of skills that do radius checks and seem to be unaffected by the change. So I am assuming they must have had a strong inclination of what skills were being pressed a lot.
    Edited by relentless_turnip on July 31, 2020 11:37AM
    "It is not over performing... you are under performing!"
    "I heard the bugs got a buff this patch?"
  • katorga
    katorga
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    I imagine they had some sort of data that lead them to some skills more than others.
    As templars are basically essential in ballgroups there is probably a pretty hefty spike on their graph when it come to their most spammed skills. Jabs made the list for obvious reasons too :lol:

    The list created on the PTS section has a lot of skills that do radius checks and seem to be unaffected by the change. So I am assuming they must have had a strong inclination of what skills were being pressed a lot.

    they said that skills that do something "around the target" are not included. So shock clench aoe is a burst around the target. Blastbones is around the target.

    Both really stuck out to me for not being impacted.

  • Unified_Gaming
    Unified_Gaming
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    katorga wrote: »
    I imagine they had some sort of data that lead them to some skills more than others.
    As templars are basically essential in ballgroups there is probably a pretty hefty spike on their graph when it come to their most spammed skills. Jabs made the list for obvious reasons too :lol:

    The list created on the PTS section has a lot of skills that do radius checks and seem to be unaffected by the change. So I am assuming they must have had a strong inclination of what skills were being pressed a lot.

    they said that skills that do something "around the target" are not included. So shock clench aoe is a burst around the target. Blastbones is around the target.

    Both really stuck out to me for not being impacted.

    But how would they sell stamcro of magden upgrades??
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