Lost in Translation. How do those English words from TES are viewed by a foreigner?

Toanis

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Isn't Daggerfall - Dolchsturz instead of Dolchfall?
Eitherway both Fall and Sturz refer to a waterfall that is there. The waterfall might be called "Dagger" or "Daggerfall" itself or perhaps the river is called "Dagger" and that's where the "Dagger" literally falls.

Daggerfall is believed to be named after the dagger the first Breton chieftain threw to stake out his lands.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_History_of_Daggerfall

A story suspiciously similar to how Hammerfell is the lands where the hammer (Volendrung) fell, when the leader of dwemer clan Rourken threw it to find a new domain.

This ambiguity makes TES lore so interesting, but either way the translations should refer to a weapon being thrown.

Syldras

Lysette wrote: »

It was a bad idea to localize names of locations, skills and items - I have all the time a problem when I play with german friends and they use names where I have to think what might it be equivalent to in english, it causes confusion and hinders fluent communication.

While I understand that problem, I also think it would be a pity if everything was untranslated. Many players don't necessarily understand English that well, so a lot of meaning would be lost. The lore, the history behind location names,... I think it adds a lot to the athmosphere.

Aigym_Hlervu

Syldras wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

It was a bad idea to localize names of locations, skills and items - I have all the time a problem when I play with german friends and they use names where I have to think what might it be equivalent to in english, it causes confusion and hinders fluent communication.

While I understand that problem, I also think it would be a pity if everything was untranslated. Many players don't necessarily understand English that well, so a lot of meaning would be lost. The lore, the history behind location names,... I think it adds a lot to the athmosphere.

I think the same way you do. I only hope a type of translators, some call the "overminds", would not put their hands on it. Video games have always been one of the many methods to study foreign languages to me. So, I remember once I played a game called "Myth 2: Soulblighter". I played one of it's translated editions, though it's label was left untouched. Quite an old and interesting game. So, there were 24 missions (excluding two bonus missions) in it. I understood it from the very beginning - the one I had to fight against during the entire plot should have been that Soulblighter. I started a new game and began fighting the forces of Evil. The first missions were dedicated to retreating from the forces of someone called the Messiah of Hell. "Ok, that might be his general" - I thought. So I was fighting off those hordes of thralls and other inhumans commanded by that Messiah of Hell hrough missions 2, 4, 10.. 15!.. 20!.. The script made him chasing my army almost the whole game, so I thought "Damn, what a bother you are, MoH! Where's your boss the Soulblighter? Why can't I just turn off your head and go fight him instead?! For how long do I have to fight such a pathetic creature like you to finally fight the forces of your boss? Where is he?". I saw the Soulblighter on the game's cover, in the briefing pictures, I knew of his looking - but the game only showed me his pictures and forced me to fight someone called the Messiah of Hell..

That lasted until the very 24th mission, and I was completely pissed-off with that Messiah of Hell. Seriously. The revelation came only by the very end when King Alric (a hero unit fighting at my side) had to meet that Messiah of Hell. I finally saw him in-game as a unit and finally understood that the pathetic and bothering rabble was the Soulblighter himself all along. My indignation was beyond limits - a simple error in a character's name translation ruined the entire perception of his image. I was supposed to feel something any military commander should have felt being chased by an overwhelming unstoppable horde of evil forging ahead like a tank, I was supposed to be interested in Soulblighter's character and his actions he performed during those 24 missions, his military genius, etc. But all I was feeling was only angriness: I was not giving a damn on that Messiah of Hell the entire campaign - I treated him as a checkpoint unworthy of attention at all, unworthy and way too insignificant on my way to the confrontation with the main villain - the Soulblighter, the true antagonist. I was willing to get rid of him as fast as possible, but it took the entire game to understand the trick. All the way along I was fighting a very bothering "mosquito" only to fight the Soulblighter and his Army of Evil, to see what character he is. Then he finally came, I slew him and it switched on the titles. Great. A very detailed character. I still remember those feelings. Suffice to say, there is a very good word to translate the Soulblighter's name literally! But those translators somehow invented that "Messiah of Hell" and ruined everything. Ah, I become angry each time I remember that.. It's like some of the translations of the "Alien" movie - it was translated well into my language, but I've read it was first translated into some other languages as the "Eighth Passenger". Well, that was no problem till the "Eighth Passenger 2", "Eighth Passenger 3", "Eighth Passengers" .. Ah, those translators..

Aigym_Hlervu

By the way - am I alone here who thinks of some Christian monks somewhere in South-Eastern Asia when reading and hearing the word "mission"? Back in my day we used it that way only. To me it's a bit weird to see it used in modern phrases like "The mission of our company", "Space voyage mission" or something of that sort. It might be sounding good in English, but it's weird in my language and it was never used here that way until the video games became popular. The same thing is with the word "simple" - who the hell came up to use that word for the "check list"? The "Road map" - why not the "plan"? A road map is a road map, but a plan of development is a plan of development. I don't like such misconceptions - perhaps this is one of the reasons we do not understand those ancient editions of our languages and likewise the people who will come after us in hundreds of years will not understand us. It's all due to that rush into "contemporary" style and fashion.

spartaxoxo

Native English Speaker here. These are my own personal interpretation

Buoyant Armiger = High quality squire. Buoyant can mean someone is happy, something can float, or that something is operating a high level of quality. E.g. Buoyant economy.

In this case, I would imagine they mean quality. Armiger is like a squire, I think. So I basically think of like badass but stuffy and snooty guardsmen.

Almalexia's Hands = her closest guards she most trusts.

Because a leader's right hand man is their closest and most trusted underling. This person should not be underestimated because they are so close to the leader it's as if they are part of their own body.

Redguard

Think they sound bloody to me, probably good fighters. I wouldn't screw with them.

Daggerfall

This one sounds like a city where some big battle took place and someone died. Dunno why it's called that. Sounds sad.

Ghost Fence

This sounds like a haunted fence, or maybe a dead guy that buys stolen items. Weird name.

Hammerfell

Sounds like a place of justice. Like a judge banging a gavel. I don't really see much difference in Hammerfall vs Fell tbh. Well if someone is waiting for a hammer to fall, means they are waiting on something bad to happen to them. So maybe the hammer already fell and the Redguard crushed someone...

Sea of Ghosts

Dangerous waters. Lots of dead people

Yokuda

Gibberish to me

Argonia as well as Black Marsh

Argonia sounds like someone named their kid after the periodic table. Black Marsh is a scary and evil marsh.

Morrowind

Sounds like a futuristic city.

Champion

Depends on the context but your example is like the best warrior, chosen by Vivec to be his knight or whatever. Champion points I would assume lets my character become a great warrior.

Gold

Same as your country. Only a video game thing. Otherwise gold is ounces, karots, or bars. Can also just be a color or kind of necklace. But then you would say that like your gold chain..

Ald Daedroth, Bal Ur, Bal Fell, Kogoruhn, Tel Aruhn, Balmora, Vos, Gnisis, Alten Corimont, Addadshashanammu (my favourite ), Almurbalarammi, Ashalmimilkala, Assurnabitashpi, Nchurdamz, Arkngthand, Arkngthunch-Sturdumz, Bamz-Amschend

All gibberish to me

High Elves

Elves that believe themselves to be superior to everyone else to me. Kinda racist.

Wayrest

A place for wayward travelers to escape. A haven.

Whiterun

Town built around some rapids

Solitude

Isolated s/n (Narsis?) As a town name, I'd expect it would have been founded by a small insular community only concerned with their own affairs. Perhaps tongue in cheek name.

Nightblade

An assassin or ninja. Stalks victim from the shadow and then kills them.

Blades

Yes, sounds fine for a group of people to call themselves as such..

Scaled Court, Court of Bedlam, Feathered Court 

Councilors and leadership underneath some supreme leader. Like a queen and her court. Scaled court will be the court of their scaled leader. Which makes sense because their leader was a serpent.

Walker, Shadow Walker

A shadow walker would be someone who walks 🚶‍♂️ in concealed areas. They hide among the shadows. Dark vibe.

Sword-singers

When you make some instrument "sing" you are operating it at an extremely high quality. Usually refers to someone like playing a guitar or something, but before I knew the lord I assumed it just meant they could use their blades so fast and effectively that they might sing.

Syldras

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Video games have always been one of the many methods to study foreign languages to me.

Ah, yes. I remember very well when I was a child, playing graphic adventures such as King's Quest and Monkey Island (and what was that one where you start in a prison cell? Lure of the Temptress, I think) or rpgs like Might & Magic in English. I learned a lot especially when you still had to type in all actions in text form. Always sat there with a dictionary. Improved my reading and writing abilities, too. I was maybe 7 years old back then. Later, as a teen, Deus Ex with those many in-game books and letters/e-mails made a big impression.

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

By the way - am I alone here who thinks of some Christian monks somewhere in South-Eastern Asia when reading and hearing the word "mission"?

Quite the opposite with me. I'm so used to "mission" being used for "task" or "assignment", at least in games, that I sometimes forget about the other meaning while playing. There was a small riddle back in TES3... Or no, wait, it wasn't originally in the game, it was part of a certain Ashlander companion mod, where there was a letter(?) about "going to the mission". It took me a while to realize that the Argonian Mission in Ebonheart was meant... Embarrassing. Especially, since I studied history and had several seminaries about colonialism and Christian missionaries in Asia.

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

It's all due to that rush into "contemporary" style and fashion.

Not necessarily. Languages always change, not even due to cultural exchanges or fashion. You had the Great Vowel Shift in English, the Lautverschiebung in German... Strangely, there are different theories about them, but it's not really clear why they happened.

Aigym_Hlervu

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Argonia as well as Black Marsh. Argonia sounds like someone named their kid after the periodic table. Black Marsh is a scary and evil marsh.

That was awesome ! How could have I missed it myself? That's the thing I've always been thinking of Krypton that way . Black Marsh - yeah, it is the same to me.

Syldras wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Video games have always been one of the many methods to study foreign languages to me.

Ah, yes. I remember very well when I was a child, playing graphic adventures such as King's Quest and Monkey Island (and what was that one where you start in a prison cell? Lure of the Temptress, I think) or rpgs like Might & Magic in English. I learned a lot especially when you still had to type in all actions in text form. Always sat there with a dictionary. Improved my reading and writing abilities, too. I was maybe 7 years old back then. Later, as a teen, Deus Ex with those many in-game books and letters/e-mails made a big impression.

Oh, those lovely games! I like them much too! I don't know if you remember that game or not, it was never that popular, as far as I remember - it is a German 1995 game called Albion. To me that game's world has been second only to the world of TES even today. You might dislike it's graphics, but trust me, the game is thrilling. And quite educative in terms of English if you play that version. Watch it on Youtube, you might like it.

Syldras wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

By the way - am I alone here who thinks of some Christian monks somewhere in South-Eastern Asia when reading and hearing the word "mission"?

Quite the opposite with me. I'm so used to "mission" being used for "task" or "assignment", at least in games, that I sometimes forget about the other meaning while playing. There was a small riddle back in TES3... Or no, wait, it wasn't originally in the game, it was part of a certain Ashlander companion mod, where there was a letter(?) about "going to the mission". It took me a while to realize that the Argonian Mission in Ebonheart was meant... Embarrassing. Especially, since I studied history and had several seminaries about colonialism and Christian missionaries in Asia.

Well, that might be the reason - when I studied we used that word to describe Christian missionaries only. Later I've met that word in video games - "Mission briefing". That was quite unusual to me. It became even more unusual to read that word in media when it comes to describing some corporate principles of working. Missionaries.. in jackets ..

Syldras wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

It's all due to that rush into "contemporary" style and fashion.

Not necessarily. Languages always change, not even due to cultural exchanges or fashion. You had the Great Vowel Shift in English, the Lautverschiebung in German... Strangely, there are different theories about them, but it's not really clear why they happened.

Ah, yes, theories.. Yes, nobody knows exactly what happened in the past, we have only traces of it, it's results. Sometimes things contradict each other so heavily, you don't know what to believe in.. Especially when you read different sources on the very same event. It's just like in TES . English is indeed a mysterious language. In 1730 the Parliament passed the Proceedings in Courts of Justice Act - it made English fully official in.. England . Hey, it was just 290 years ago! It's completely incomprehensive to me, because in my country my language has always been both casual and official here for more than a thousand years. Imagine all the modern official things are performed in, say, English or even some long dead language, while the entire country speaks German. How is that ever possible? We can theorize much on it and explain it through various ways, but I guess only an XVIII century video or a time machine could ever show us truth.

Another example - when studying everything regarding Sweden I bumped into a document, a strange one, indeed (look at the picture from the wikiepedia below). It is said to be the Charles XI funeral oration written by Johan Gabriel Sparwenfeld - a royal seneschal of Charles XI. The speech is said to be read before the people of Sweden about six months after the death of Charles XI on his birthday, November 24, 1697, at a memorial ceremony dedicated to the transfer of the king's remains to the tomb of the Swedish Kings in the Church of Riddarholmen in Stockholm. It praised Charles XI, listed his achievements in domestic and foreign policy, and also praised his son, Charles XII. Nothing unusual, as it might seem. But the oration is written in.. Russian. Why?.. The history gives no certain answer.



Next take that great Chinese history, translate all the names you meet there and you'll see a very familiar history of Europe as if it was translated into Chinese (Shiwei - Swedes, Tangut - Goths, Xianbei - Serbians, Huns - Hungarians, Khitan, the ones who lived south-east of the Xianbei, - Macedonians, etc. - they all sound like heavily distorted European ones and their history is much comparable to ours). It is said they invented silk 5000 years ago and paper 3000 years ago. Do you imagine those numbers?.. What a good memory they had to keep the techonology of thd production of silk for 2000 years. Moreover, all the Chinese chronicles we have today are dated by the XVII century only. What I have concluded regarding the Chinese history after all those years I lived in Asia is that their history could be much younger than it is supposed to be - I think an Italian Jesuit priest Matteo Ricci could have been the one who started that Great Chinese history we know today having simply translated our European chronicles into that language. What we know today could be the reverse translation with all the names left purely Chinese this time. Ah, theories ! I think we can spend years discussing them. Perhaps, this is why I like TES lore so much - sometimes it is too indefinite, speculative and interesting just like the lore of this tiny place we call Earth . Now let's get back to discussing TES .

Ekzorka

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

It's like that thing with the names - when I speak to an American, I'm, say, George, to a German speaker I'm either Jürgen or Georg, to an Italian I'm Giorgio, to a Russian I'm either Yuri, Yegor or Georgy, to a Portuguese I'm Jorge, etc. Same thing is with other names: I won't say I'm Mikhail to a Frenchman or that I'm Ricardo to a German - I'm Michel and Richard to them respectively. They all know me by different forms of my name, though sometimes I have to use the one I'm called in my country because some names are absent in the language of the one whom I speak to - this is the only case I use the "original" form.

You're wrong, in the Russian language rules every name form is a different name, so there's very important to know the original pronunciation and where is person come from. You can't call Frenchman as "Georgiy", you have to call him "Zhorzh" as it sounds in French language. We are very loyal to the original names, and any adaptation is often perceived skeptically.
But, of course, sometimes there are some mistakes or uncertainties in pronunciation... mainly because the original is not explained by transcription.

Jaimeh

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

23. Sword-singers - how could have these two words be ever combined? I understand, it is a metaphor - a sword "sings" while you swing it. It's ok. But what is not ok here, is that it never makes that sword wielder a "singer" himself. If your wife swings a frying pan, would she become a "Frying-pan-singer"? No, I guess.

I understand this as the person who makes the sword ''sing''.

Syldras

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

I don't know if you remember that game or not, it was never that popular, as far as I remember - it is a German 1995 game called Albion. To me that game's world has been second only to the world of TES even today. You might dislike it's graphics, but trust me, the game is thrilling. And quite educative in terms of English if you play that version. Watch it on Youtube, you might like it.

I'll have a look, thanks!

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

English is indeed a mysterious language. In 1730 the Parliament passed the Proceedings in Courts of Justice Act - it made English fully official in.. England . Hey, it was just 290 years ago! It's completely incomprehensive to me, because in my country my language has always been both casual and official here for more than a thousand years. Imagine all the modern official things are performed in, say, English or even some long dead language, while the entire country speaks German. How is that ever possible?

Historically, it's not uncommon in Germany. In the Middle Ages, most books were written in Latin. For the normal people, it didn't matter though, as most couldn't read or write anyway. The books were from scholars for scholars only, and classical education always included the Latin language. Later in the 18th century, there were German royals who only spoke French (while the "normal" people always spoke some German dialect), most probably due to connections to French nobility - and yes, it also might have been a fashion thing. I think it was the same with the Russian royals? Then, most European royals were related in one way or another anyway, Empress Catherine of Russia was originally German, or was George I. of Great Britain. Charles XI might have had any connection to the Russian court (I'm not sure about that)? Then it would make sense to have an oration in Russian. Or it was a fad of some kind?

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

It is said they invented silk 5000 years ago and paper 3000 years ago. Do you imagine those numbers?.. What a good memory they had to keep the techonology of thd production of silk for 2000 years.

I wouldn't find it that unlikely, if you pass it on from generation to generation. The production of paper isn't that complicated either, and they had to write on something after all. If you look at other writing materials established in other regions of the world - in old Egypt, papyrus was used from 3000 BC on (somewhen during the 1st Dynasty). Which reminds me, there had been a wonderful exhibition some years ago, comparing Chinese and ancient Egypt society, traditions and technology from the same time periods. There were many similarities, although there was no known connection and/or exchange between both cultures.

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Now let's get back to discussing TES .

I agree.

Aigym_Hlervu

Ekzorka wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

It's like that thing with the names - when I speak to an American, I'm, say, George, to a German speaker I'm either Jürgen or Georg, to an Italian I'm Giorgio, to a Russian I'm either Yuri, Yegor or Georgy, to a Portuguese I'm Jorge, etc. Same thing is with other names: I won't say I'm Mikhail to a Frenchman or that I'm Ricardo to a German - I'm Michel and Richard to them respectively. They all know me by different forms of my name, though sometimes I have to use the one I'm called in my country because some names are absent in the language of the one whom I speak to - this is the only case I use the "original" form.

You're wrong, in the Russian language rules every name form is a different name, so there's very important to know the original pronunciation and where is person come from. You can't call Frenchman as "Georgiy", you have to call him "Zhorzh" as it sounds in French language. We are very loyal to the original names, and any adaptation is often perceived skeptically.
But, of course, sometimes there are some mistakes or uncertainties in pronunciation... mainly because the original is not explained by transcription.

I spoke of my own approach only in communicating with foreigners - you speak of the modern Russian language naming rules in your reply. But it is nonetheless me who's wrong here ..
Anyway, speaking of rules since you appeal to them: the modern rules of Russian were established in 1956 - there is no rule forbidding translation and interpretation of any personal names in Russian . The thing you speak of is not a rule - it is only an approach common to the majority of Russian speakers. Though not that common actually - I know a woman in Russia called Julia - yes, Julia, not Yulia. The other woman I know is called Odette (just like that character in the "Schwanensee"). Both names are their real names, not just forms they used when we spoke. Did their parents break any rules naming them that way? Yes, they both are native Russians, but there are many foreigners who change their names the way I've been doing. I heard of many German generals serving the Russian Empire in the XIX century were called in some Russian style. The most recent example I'm aware of is an Olympic games champion Ahn Hyun-soo you call Victor Ahn. The same way it works vice versa: I'm not sure if you are interested in American history, but if you are, then you might be aware of Mr. Mr. John Basil Turchin, commander of the Eighth Brigade, Third Division, Army of the Ohio during the American Civil War. An American war hero. You might be very surprised to read that article of Encyclopedia of Alabama (perhaps there is one on Wikiepedia - I haven't checked it yet), but pay attention to the fact he used just the same approach I use .

It might sound as if I'm teaching a native the basics of his own language , but trust me - this is not my point, I'm sorry if you perceived it that way. I was just a good learner , I had good teachers. My approach to change the form of my name might be unusual to you and many other people, but it does not make me wrong - this is all I wanted to say.

Syldras

@Cygemai_Hlervu To get back to topic - more or less: I just realized again how weird it is for me as a non-American, to see how names are shortened in ESO. I know, the names of mer are often rather long, so you would maybe use a shortened form if you talk to friends or family. Just the way it is done (also in the German translation) feels unusual. No matter if on Auridon or the main isle of Summerset, it occurs several times, and it's always strange. Or also in Greymoor. Fenn. It feels extremely "American" in a way (you only know it from American movies and books here).

In German, you can shorten a name if you use it as a nickname/moniker. But if you do, you would add an -i or -y to the end. Benjamin would become Benni, Tobias would be Tobi, Katharina would be Kati or Kathy. With some names, it doesn't even work at all. You can't call a Julia Juli for example.

Also, these forms are considered diminutives. So you usually don't use them for adults. Maybe to very very very close friends or your own child or grandchild, even if they're already young adults. But normally, it's considered to be something for little children or pets. For adults it's considered embarrassing. If an adult middle-age man would be called Klausi (for example by his wife or mother), everyone who hears it would mock him for it.

Aigym_Hlervu

Yeah, @Syldras, I speak German a bit too and know the thing you speak of quite well. That "Fenn" name was strange to me too. Same thing is with "Raz" - he's got a good sounding name, Razum-dar, but still that "Raz" form is something unusual to a Khajiit of that rank. Hah, by the way: his name means "a gift of mind" in Russian - another language I speak a bit . Interesting. If ESO used that google assistant voice technology to pronounce some written text like character names, I guess we both, you and me, should be called "Syldri" and "Cyggi" by Lyris . Ah, those Nords !.. They have no patience to pronounce something like "Anand Viswanathan" or something . Hopefully, they haven't tried to pronounce those Vardenfell Daedric ruins' names. That would be funny .

Syldras

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

That "Fenn" name was strange to me too. Same thing is with "Raz" - he's got a good sounding name, Razum-dar, but still that "Raz" form is something unusual to a Khajiit of that rank.

I don't even find their names long. It's just 3 syllables. I mean, it might feel "long" for people who are used to names like Greg, Tom or Brad Although those are, actually, shortened forms already...

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

If ESO used that google assistant voice technology to pronounce some written text like character names, I guess we both, you and me, should be called "Syldri" and "Cyggi" by Lyris .

Sounds and looks awful. Really really awful. Oddly enough, in that case I'd prefer "Syl", even if it's shorter, just because it sounds maybe a bit less awkward. And yes, I know there's a certain lady of that name. Which makes me think - shortening names so much makes them really meaningless. "Syl" could be everything (Sylanwe, Sylanbar, Sylgor, Sylenas?), it's so unspecific, you couldn't even assume the race and gender. These short forms are so vacuous. I don't like it.

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Hopefully, they haven't tried to pronounce those Vardenfell Daedric ruins' names. That would be funny .

I think they did it with a few? Ashlander daily quests? I can't remember for sure...

Aigym_Hlervu

Syldras wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

If ESO used that google assistant voice technology to pronounce some written text like character names, I guess we both, you and me, should be called "Syldri" and "Cyggi" by Lyris .

Sounds and looks awful. Really really awful. Oddly enough, in that case I'd prefer "Syl", even if it's shorter, just because it sounds maybe a bit less awkward. And yes, I know there's a certain lady of that name. Which makes me think - shortening names so much makes them really meaningless. "Syl" could be everything, it's so unspecific, you couldn't even assume the race and gender. Sylanwe, Sylanbar, Sylgor, Sylenas? These short forms are so vacuous. I don't like it.

Awful, indeed.. My guildmates used to call me Cyg in chat - perhaps, got tired of typing "Cygemai", too long for them. What method did you use when deciding to choose your name here? Some Altmeri-like name, or.. Nah, I think it's more Dunmer-like, though I might be wrong on that. Dunmer names, especially the Ashlander ones, are good to choose from. For example, the -mai ending in some of the Ashlander names is used to name women, like Berrammai and Salitummai. But the same names can be used both by men and women alike: Hainab Lasamsi and Hainab of the Urshilaku tribe, Hairan of the Erabenimsun tribe and Hairan Mannanalit. Some names IRL are used the same way. So, I think it is something they have there when they call a girl "Charlie" because it's a short form of "Charlotte" or something. What can you expect of people officially calling the heads of their state Jimmy, Bill, Ted ? I think they feel no difference at all - it might sound normal to them, but to me it's way too unnatural. I guess we need a native American here to explain us this thing .

Syldras

@Cygemai_Hlervu Yes, it's supposed to be a Dunmer name, although it might also work for Altmer and even Bosmer. It's relatively neutral... but clearly a mer name, I'd say. Today, I almost regret that didn't choose a more specific one, including a Dunmer surname, but I wanted to keep my user name rather short and simple back then (I didn't even have in mind if I'd participate in the forums and really use the name to interact, when I started years ago). Actually, those were really the main aspects I thought about: It should be a male elven name, probably a Dunmer name, it should have a nice sound to it, and it shouldn't be too long.

Fortunately, I've been a bit more thoughtful and creative with my characters' names. So... A few times within the last months/years, I've thought I could have just used my main character's name also as a forum name... but then I think, it's not bad to have a clear distinction between me and him. There might be some parallels, but I'm not playing myself in ESO. I know there are people who play their main character as if it were them - make them look like they do in rl, make them act the same, make the same decisions as they would in reality. I don't.

Although - what makes is even weirder: I'm not only posting "as myself" in this forum, I sometimes make "in character" remarks. So if you read questionable opinions about slavery and corporal punishment - it's Syldras the Dunmer (Telvanni and proud slave owner). If it's a more serious topic, it's probably Syldras the not-quite-entirely-a-Dunmer

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

What can you expect of people officially calling the heads of their state Jimmy, Bill, Ted ? I think they feel no difference at all - it might sound normal to them, but to me it's way too unnatural. I guess we need a native American here to explain us this thing .

Yes, I think it's a cultural thing. It's probably perfectly normal in the USA. It's strange in other regions of the world. I would never, never, never get the idea to call someone Raz or Fenn. Never. It's absurd

Cundu_Ertur

I think it's something we inherited from England when we were still an offshoot. 'Jim' instead of 'James' isn't just an American thing, but (so far as I know) something common to the entire native English speaking community (ie the Commonwealth and former colonies).

Also, I thought in German 'Fritz' instead of 'Friederich' and 'Hans' instead of 'Johannes' were pretty much life-long appellations, not just childhood ones.

But I could be wrong.

Sylvermynx

Y'know.... English (especially the "US" version) is such a mish-mash of bits from here there everywhere, I do occasionally wonder how anyone keeps any of it straight.

I've played games years past that were released in other (to me as a US English speaker) languages. The only thing I missed was the dialogue (though I did get bits along - as I can translate a little of German, Spanish, Italian as I read), but then again 25 years ago the dialogue wasn't very important - killing your way through zones was what was on tap.

Admittedly, because I'm so old (73 by the end of the year), I might be more flexible than some people younger than me because I've literally seen everything by now, considering I grew up in Vegas (yeah.... my g'daughters are NOT flexible at all, and my daughter only marginally so - they lived in Germany for 20 years, and only the g'daughters speak German - and they're losing it after ten years back here....)

I really believe that any company which purports to produce a game to be sold worldwide has a duty to provide that game in the languages that people use in their home countries. And yes, that would be a HUGE financial problem. Not sure how that could be mitigated.

Syldras

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Also, I thought in German 'Fritz' instead of 'Friederich' and 'Hans' instead of 'Johannes' were pretty much life-long appellations, not just childhood ones.

It depends. There are some old short forms which have become normal names of their own over the decades. Such as Fritz or Hans. It's completely common to have that name in your passport. So those are also used for adults. But with shortened nicknames (Melanie -> Melli, Sabine -> Sabsi, Michael -> Michi)... not often. There are some exceptions though, which are sometimes used (I'd say they're halfway through the process of becoming regular names), such as Andreas -> Andy.

Also it's a... how should I say it? It's also a question of the social class. Often people with higher incomes, like academics, would not want their name shortened to a nickname of this kind. They find it tacky. Many workers aren't that strict. So a factory worker named Manfred wouldn't probably mind to be called Manni by his friends, while an university professor probably would. Speaking of clichés - of course, no one has to act according to this. But if you look at typical behaviour, there are some differences.

Big differences especially with names, in general. Many people who don't think much about prestige name their children after movie characters they like or give them American names. Academics often find these names extremely distasteful. There are even jokes about some childrens' names such as Kevin, Mandy or Peggy, labelling them as (I hate this term, but I think this would be what it's called in the USA) "white trash". Yes, there is name discrimination even nowadays (actually I think it has even gotten much worse within the last 25 or 30 years). It's really distinctive. If you have an Alexander or Friedrich, it's probably a child from a high income family, if the name is Justin, Kevin or Chantal, it's the opposite. There's even a swearword "Alpha-Kevin", meaning "biggest idiot of them all".

But that's slightly off topic now... Ah, what I wanted to add: The reason why many adults wouldn't like to be called Fritzi or Klausi might be that these are not only short forms, but diminutives. They are considered child-like. There are some forms which would have a better acceptance, such as Wolfgang -> Wolf or Christian -> Chris. But they're rather rare. You can't just shorten every name like it seems to be usual in the USA (and maybe England, I don't know).

Aigym_Hlervu

They are separate names. That's the difference - William Jefferson, being William, is officially called simply Bill, while Bond is always James. "Bond. Jimmy Bond" - that sounds . Same thing with Shakespeare - he's never called "Bill". Samantha is shortened to Sam, while Sam is Samuel, Charlie is both for Charlotte and Charles. It's completely incomprehensive, I see no order there. So why Carter, being James Earl Carter, was called Jimmy (not even Jim)? I mean, do you feel any difference, it's diminutive sense or it is ok to call him that way?

Sylvermynx

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

They are separate names. That's the difference - William Jefferson, being William, is officially called simply Bill, while Bond is always James. "Bond. Jimmy Bond" - that sounds . Same thing with Shakespeare - he's never called "Bill". Samantha is shortened to Sam, while Sam is Samuel, Charlie is both for Charlotte and Charles. It's completely incomprehensive, I see no order there. So why Carter, being James Earl Carter, was called Jimmy (not even Jim)? I mean, do you feel any difference, it's diminutive sense or it is ok to call him that way?

Because it's a southern US convention. James is more often reduced to Jimmy than not. And some people from the south, with perfectly "good" names such as Robert, wind up with nicknames like "Bubba".

Nope, not kidding.

Syldras

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Because it's a southern US convention. James is more often reduced to Jimmy than not. And some people from the south, with perfectly "good" names such as Robert, wind up with nicknames like "Bubba".
Nope, not kidding.

If you're not used to it, it sounds horrible. But I'm sure it's the same the other way round. It's always a question of tradition and how common something is.

I just realize how rare "real" short forms of names are in German. There's no form for Gerhard while you'd probably just say Gary in the US. Thomas only has the child-like Tommi, not Tom. We have no Stu, Meg, Pat or Bob.

Aigym_Hlervu

Syldras wrote: »

Although - what makes is even weirder: I'm not only posting "as myself" in this forum, I sometimes make "in character" remarks. So if you read questionable opinions about slavery and corporal punishment - it's Syldras the Dunmer (Telvanni and proud slave owner). If it's a more serious topic, it's probably Syldras the not-quite-entirely-a-Dunmer

Haha, I do just the same thing, man !.. Though we're different on play styles you've described - I am just the player who controls not a a character, but an alter ego - it's me there in that other world, though, of course, it's me being placed in the environment of that world, it's circumstances that also define my choices. I've always been a Dunmer Sorcerer in TES games, a master of the schools of Conjuration, Mysticism and Illusion since they metaphorically resemble things I'm skilled IRL. Though, I'm trained with a two-handed weaponry and bows too there . I have also never been a member of the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood. Because it's been something unacceptable to me. Though, the Morag Tong has always been my choice in 3E 427 . In 3E 427 I was a Redoran, but in ESO I'm affiliated with House Dres, since unlike the Dres, there is no way to join the Redorans in ESO.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

They are separate names. That's the difference - William Jefferson, being William, is officially called simply Bill, while Bond is always James. "Bond. Jimmy Bond" - that sounds . Same thing with Shakespeare - he's never called "Bill". Samantha is shortened to Sam, while Sam is Samuel, Charlie is both for Charlotte and Charles. It's completely incomprehensive, I see no order there. So why Carter, being James Earl Carter, was called Jimmy (not even Jim)? I mean, do you feel any difference, it's diminutive sense or it is ok to call him that way?

Because it's a southern US convention. James is more often reduced to Jimmy than not. And some people from the south, with perfectly "good" names such as Robert, wind up with nicknames like "Bubba".

Nope, not kidding.

Wait. You mean, Bubba is Robert ? That's a revelation to me! I thought it was Rob only. Wow. So, I take it depends on that North-South thing. My favourite American poet Robert Frost could have been called.. Bubba Frost in the southern states ?.. Oh, my..

Cundu_Ertur

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

They are separate names. That's the difference - William Jefferson, being William, is officially called simply Bill, while Bond is always James. "Bond. Jimmy Bond" - that sounds . Same thing with Shakespeare - he's never called "Bill". Samantha is shortened to Sam, while Sam is Samuel, Charlie is both for Charlotte and Charles. It's completely incomprehensive, I see no order there. So why Carter, being James Earl Carter, was called Jimmy (not even Jim)? I mean, do you feel any difference, it's diminutive sense or it is ok to call him that way?

I always refer to the guy who usurped the English throne in 1066 as Billy. Well, Billy *** in full (but I know the Forums will bleep that out, even though it is completely appropriate for him due to his illegitimate pedigree). But I'm an American yokel, so I guess I'm proving this rule.

Anyways, another southern naming convention that sometimes occurred (but not always) is that a person's first name is the formal name, while the middle name is reserved for friends and family -- kind of where the duzen rules in German would apply. This is very old fashioned nowadays and rare. My mother's family did that, I usually go by my middle name now as a consequence.

Also, having grown up in the south, most Roberts I ever ran into were Bob, Rob, Bobby, or Robby. There's a Robby where I work. I think there's a state of mind you must have to get Bubba as a nickname.

Shakespeare is Wil. Willy if you're feeling sassy.

Syldras

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Haha, I do just the same thing, man !..

...and I already had people taking my Telvanni ramblings too seriously. That's the risk, I guess (But honestly - why would people expect the real me to find delight in the thought of whipping a young Altmer until he squeals?! What impression do people have of me?! )

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

I have also never been a member of the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood. Because it's been something unacceptable to me.

If I'd play a true alter ego of myself, it'd be the same with me. But I've played very different characters so far, from more or less "good" to... well, persons I'd rather not want to meet in real life. I still have a "main", I'd say, though... You guess it: Dunmer. Sorcerer. Telvanni. But he isn't that bad, actually. Not murderous, not that ruthless. Just very inquisitive and a tad eccentric.

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

In 3E 427 I was a Redoran

Oh. I had been wondering if you are a descendant of that part of the Hlervu family who has their ancestral tomb near Holamayan Monastery. But... they're Telvanni. So the question's answered, I guess.

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

My favourite American poet Robert Frost could have been called.. Bubba Frost in the southern states ?.. Oh, my..

Rob/Bob/Bubba/Robby/Bobby Frost I'm not sure which is the worst.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Anyways, another southern naming convention that sometimes occurred (but not always) is that a person's first name is the formal name, while the middle name is reserved for friends and family -- kind of where the duzen rules in German would apply. This is very old fashioned nowadays and rare. My mother's family did that, I usually go by my middle name now as a consequence.

That's interesting. Here, some people have middle names, but they're mostly not used at all. They're just there, in the documents. Maybe because the parents couldn't decide Or because they wanted to include the grandparent's name in a way. Or because they've got a strange humour, such as my father

Aigym_Hlervu

Syldras wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

In 3E 427 I was a Redoran

Oh. I had been wondering if you are a descendant of that part of the Hlervu family who has their ancestral tomb near Holamayan Monastery. But... they're Telvanni. So the question's answered, I guess.

You're not the first who wonders . No, it's just a coincidence. I don't "roleplay" and don't create any backstories - it's my alter ego there, not some separate character . There were some other reasons, though, yes, I visited that tomb while working for the Library of Vivec and several times after it since I live in Tel Galen in the Azura's Coast region there.

Hah, I've forgotten to share another observation here when we spoke of Russian - there was a Nedic tribe in Hammerfell called the Duraki with their leader called High King Durac. Sometimes when I bump into those "Ayleid Pogrom", "Razum-dar" and some other names, I think some Russian jokers work with the devs, because as far as I know the "Duraki" literally means "fools" (an entire tribe of fools ?) and their High King's name means a "fool" . Some Russian players might correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Syldras

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

I visited that tomb while working for the Library of Vivec and several times after it since I live in Tel Galen in the Azura's Coast region there.

Now I'm jealous If they'd offer Tel Galen again, I'd probably buy it. The first time, I didn't have the money; the second time, I was on vacation and missed it. Generally, it's a pity there's no house regularly available in whole Zafirbel Bay. Even a room in the tavern of Sadrith Mora would be better than nothing. Actually I even really like the ambience there.

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

as far as I know the "Duraki" literally means "fools" (an entire tribe of fools ?) and their High King's name means a "fool" . Some Russian players might correct me if I'm wrong on that.

I don't understand that much Russian, but I think you're right.

Syldras

I have another one. Those beasts in Wrothgar. Echatere. Does their name have any meaning? They sound French somehow? Especially as the small ones are called Echalettes.

Zer0_CooL

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

17. Whiterun - who runs, where he runs, why is he white?.. Saarthal, Morthal are good names for those cities. But why the "Whiterun"? Author's remark: explained in the replies.

Whiterun, since it refers to the river is actually a quiet accurate translation. In german you say "Flusslauf"

Aigym_Hlervu

Syldras wrote: »

I have another one. Those beasts in Wrothgar. Echatere. Does their name have any meaning? They sound French somehow? Especially as the small ones are called Echalettes.

Yeah, quite French indeed. 2E 582 Echalette Corvette Turbo - this is the way it sounds to me .