Lost in Translation. How do those English words from TES are viewed by a foreigner?

Syldras

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

My favourite of the Robert Frost's is "The Road Not Taken".

Interesting. Mine is "For Once, Then, Something".

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

"Goldmünzen" = "gold coins" would be more correct - that's what am I talking about! It's more correct, and I think it should be more correct since we're not in the bar to say just "5 Bier" implying for 5 glasses of beer.

I think the word "gold" is used like a currency name here (although it, of course, actually isn't). It probably looked better with a specific name. They could have just labelled them as Septims in Skyrim. I think it was "Drakes" in Morrowind (although it were Septims, but Drakes was the colloquial name)?

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

The lore itself is fascinating indeed. The universe of TES is my favourite one among other fiction worlds

I agree. Morrowind was the first TES game I played myself, as I was still a bit too young when Arena and Daggerfall were published. I watched my father play them, though (and played them myself years later).

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

It's like that thing with the names - when I speak to an American, I'm, say, George, to a German speaker I'm either Jürgen or Georg, to an Italian I'm Giorgio, to a Russian I'm either Yuri, Yegor or Georgy, to a Portuguese I'm Jorge, etc

Translating names is not so common here in Germany anymore. Today, they would maybe do that sometimes with the names of nobles or other "high-ranked" people like the pope, but otherwise - not really. Sometimes it sounds weird since names don't really fit the rhythm the German language normally has, if you understand what I mean. But it's normal here. It's also very common that parents choose foreign names for their children even if they have no relations to the country where the name is from. Nowadays, they often choose them after book characters they like, or singers or actors, often from the USA... But on the other hand, many names which have been common in Germany for decades also aren't of German origin. Julia has Latin origins, Anna Hebrew, Peter Greek. It's just so common no one thinks about it anymore.

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

So, if we can use our native languages, why use a foreign one? My personal opinion is that borrowing words does not enrich any language.

I think if we would strip today's German language from everything which is not originally German, there wouldn't be much left. For example, there were Arabic influences from traders in the Middle Ages, books at that time were almost entirely written by scholars in Latin (or sometimes Greek), there was a lot of French because of the Huguenots who immigrated in the 16th century, and many technical terms from the 20th century on derive from the English language. It all has shaped what is considered "German" today. Without the Arab influence, there would neither be Zucker or Alkohol, without French, no Friseur or Journalist. There aren't even "real German" synonymes for these words.

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

I haven't read the "Game of Thrones" and have never watched the series; Perhaps, because it's world, it's heroes are far from my views. How do you perceive those super-heroes?

I haven't read or seen Game of Thrones either. Same goes for super hero movies. I'm not really interested.

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

This might be the reason such things like "Batman", "Superman" ("Übermensch".. Though, it's a literal translation) etc. are never translated.

Well, in the beginning they did in some countries! Batman was translated (correctly) as "Läderlappen" in Sweden. Which is funny since it looks like the German "Lederlappen" which means... "(wash) cloth made of leather".
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/da/ef/ff/daeffffe2610c6e7b54cee4fe0dc250c.jpg

Kiralyn2000

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

"Goldmünzen" = "gold coins" would be more correct - that's what am I talking about! It's more correct, and I think it should be more correct since we're not in the bar to say just "5 Bier" implying for 5 glasses of beer. What if I personally want to know the measure of that gold? But the game just tells me "10 Gold". What "10 gold" does the game imply to - tons, grams, coins?..

People don't speak like that in my experience. They don't say "give me 10 dime coins" or "10 dollar bills", they just say "dimes" or "dollars". And yeah, I can totally see someone saying "get us 5 beers" (well, except they'd likely say a brand, unless they were at someone's house or a party where you're stuck with whatever beer there is). In regular/casual speech, people use the standard shorthand for things, only breaking out the full descriptions when it matters (like if someone was dealing with both dollar bills & dollar coins, and needed to be specific.)

But like I said earlier - maybe I'm just used to seeing it that way, after several decades of looting "32 gold" off dead enemies, in dozens of games, both digital & tabletop. It's so firmly ingrained in my brain that it doesn't seem odd.


...and play enough games, and you get used to seeing all sorts of other made-up currencies. Instead of looting 32 gold, it might be 32 gil (Final Fantasy), 32 munny (Kingdom Hearts), 32 bolts (Ratchet & Clank), 32 rupees (Legend of Zelda), 32 caps (Fallout), 32 bells (Animal Crossing), etc. Yay, games? /shrug

Aigym_Hlervu

Syldras wrote: »

I think the word "gold" is used like a currency name here (although it, of course, actually isn't). It probably looked better with a specific name. They could have just labelled them as Septims in Skyrim. I think it was "Drakes" in Morrowind (although it were Septims, but Drakes was the colloquial name)?

That's what am I talking about, yes! To me that "gold" is not a name of a currency at all (unlike those drakes and septims). So it's not equal to I feel hearing or readin "dollar" or "euro". It's just a noun meaning a shiny metal excavated from mines. This is why I need something specific to understand the measures of it the game implies to. @Kiralyn2000, I guess it's the answer to your reply too.

Regarding the names - yes, as I have written it, it's just my personal approach only. I was interested in it long ago, wondering why those royal names were translated while the same modern names were not. Still no direct answer neither on why it happened nor on when. The most interesting thing is that such a decision was made almost by everyone among the translators and almost all the people as if they were receiving commands from some specific global translation center. I gave an example of how I change the form of my name when acquainting with various people of different countries - nobody does that today, indeed, and nobody will! But on the other hand I see how different translators and even common people separately, without any secret deal simultaneously say "Garry" instead of "Harry" used previously (just an example, not something specific ) by the vast majority. Likewise we used the word "Schlager" in music to name a cool popular song, but today it's "hit" only and I see no source of it, no name of the man who was the first to say it, no written decision made at some conference of translators or something of high authority and well known by everyone to make everybody stick to it. So, I'm not saying that we should use only the purely native words - what I say is why take those foreign new words, if we have our own ones meaning the very same thing? No matter if they were borrowed from other languages in past - it's ok, there's no point crying over split milk. I tried to track the source of such things but to no success. It's something like a collective consciousness driven by some unknown source and reasons.

Ajaxandriel

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

@Ajaxandriel, since we have started talking on personal names - are there any French versions of, say, Tiber Septim, Barenziah, Vivec, etc.? I also like the universe of TES because they created almost the whole new world with those Dunmeri, Khajiiti, Altmeri and other names including. @Ratzkifal mentioned Ezabi, so what about French edition? "Vivec" sounds quite French-like for a real "wrong" Frenchman like me .

Vivec sounds strange, indeed "vive" is french word but -ec is very uncommon ...unless it's in Breton (I mean real life Breton, that is continental britonnic).

In-universe Breton names are sometimes actual French, but often look like faux-french or old french.

There are few translations of characters names, because Tiber Septim is already cyrodiilic (I mean rela-life-roman-like) and most of names are meant to be spelled in their own people language. So Barenziah and Vivec, and Sotha Sil, Almalexia, Redoran, Ayrenn, Razum-dar, Ezabi, Faharajad, Kurog, Jorunn, none are translated or adapted.
Even Telvanni and Direnni that look like english/latin ethnonyms are kept like this (it could have been les Telvanniens et Direnniens if they were not family names but country habitants)

Some changes I can notice:
- French diacritical marks, to help spelling. - House Dres => La Maison Drès that way we can say "dress" instead of "dreh".
- diacritical marks to look like elfish or alien. A nice idea from our translator, it also helps prounouncing right. The latter E on all elven female names became Ë. - Alwinarwe => Alwinarwë. We can spell "alwinarway" instead of "alwinar'w".
- Nocturnal => Nocturne (literal translation, adjective for nightly)


I just remind, "Elsweyr" is not translated, neither as the lore area nor as the expansion name.
And it's a bit strange because it HOWLS it is English when we read it, and not khajiit/ta'agra at all - just like Morrowind is not credible dunmeri.
Elsewhere is "Quelque-part", "Ailleurs", so it could have been "Kelkpar", "Ayyerr" if TES was born of french authors (like I suggested above, "Vandemain" for Morrowind), but I suppose these places are too iconic in the story, that it would have had too heavy implications to translate them.

Of course Highrock is Hauteroche and Black Marsh is le Marais Noir literally, because they are descriptive english names.
Murkmire is "Tourbevase" (peat + mud).
Greenshade is "Prasin" that I though to be an elvish/local at first but it's an old forgotten word for pale green.

Bal Foyen is funny because it's very french-like (bal = prom, foyer = hearth) but the actual spelling should be dunmeri (bal=stone).

AH !
about geographical names in a fictional language than are never adapted... One big exception:
Auridon => Auridia
I can see why. "Auridon" spelled in french "oridõ" is very ridiculous and doesn't fit at all the majestic aura of an elven land.

Aigym_Hlervu

That is all very interesting, @Ajaxandriel. "Auridia" - sounds good, though it doesn't invoke a picture of an island to me anymore. I imagine a distand land, a harsh desert or something, somewhere in the East. "Le Marais Noir" - is it pronounced as " le mar" or "le marae" with a stress on "rae"? Beautiful words! Perhaps, the last question that might turn out to be the most exciting one. The Vestige . What is it in French edition? "Le Vestige" ? In my language this word means, well, basically, a trace, a remnant. We use this two words the most. But we never use this term to name a living being. Well, we use that "remnant" word meaning that someone is the only remnant left of something, so it is always used with that "of something" part. But it's odd to say something like "Hey, Vestige! I need to speak to you". Though it's odd to call someone a remnant of something that constantly, casually, too. So, we use that term "Soulless One" both for the Soulles Ones and the Vestige - it takes only one word to translate it, and it fits in perfectly. Heh, it reminded me of that lingual thing regarding the "undeath". It's the "undead" almost in any germanic language, based on that "un" and "death" parts. But in Russian it is based literally on the "un" and "life" parts - the "unlife". The same phenomenon, but the words seem to show us two opposite perspectives on it. Interesting. Bumped into it while translating some of the modern Russian poetry. Ah, this lingual topic can be a neverending discussion .

volkeswagon

and why Khajiit? Should have called them kitties. Khajijit shounds like someone about to say cat but then sneezes.

Syldras

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Regarding the names - yes, as I have written it, it's just my personal approach only.

I think it is an interesting approach. How do people react? Do they notice? Do they ask you why you have a name native to their country (I think that might be what they perceive)?

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

I was interested in it long ago, wondering why those royal names were translated while the same modern names were not.

I don't know for sure why they stopped translating most names at some time, but I could imagine that it has to do with globalization, with people being able to travel more, and to have broader access to international media. So foreign names maybe just became common and the need of translating them was gone. Why they still translate royal names - good question.

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Likewise we used the word "Schlager" in music to name a cool popular song, but today it's "hit" only and I see no source of it, no name of the man who was the first to say it, no written decision made at some conference of translators or something of high authority and well known by everyone to make everybody stick to it.

Well, who knows. Language is always changing - people change it all the time. And it's not even clear in what direction. Sometimes a foreign word will get a German synonyme later, sometimes it happens just the other way round. Today, a policeman is a Polizist and a telephone a Telefon, no one would use a different word. Still, in the 60's or even in the 70's the official word you found on public telephone booths was Fernsprecher or Fernsprechapparat (literally far-speaker or far-speaking-device). In the 50's, a policeman was a Schutzmann (literally protection-man). On the other hand, a sidewalk/pavement (for pedestrians) was called by its French name Trottoir for a long time. Today, it's Bürgersteig (literally "citizen's path", although Steig itself is rarely used anymore, and only in the South, I think) or just Fußweg ("foot-way"). Generally, the German language has some strange words, if you think about it. A Flugzeug (airplane) is literally just a thing that flies. A Fahrzeug (vehicle) is a thing that drives. Werkzeug (tools) are things that work.

About name translations in ESO or TES in general: Argonian and Khajiit names with a meaning (Moves-Unseen, Two-Scales, Quiet-Paws, Cinder-Tail) are translated to German. Same goes for Nord family names (Gray-Mane, Titanborn). Other than that - I don't think so. Oh wait, Daedric princes. While Nocturnal stays the same, I've seen Sanguine changed to Sanguin in Oblivion. Not sure how it is in ESO. Maybe it was even just a typo (like Riften, which is called Rifton in the German translation of Skyrim and ESO, and no one knows why).

Elsweyr, Auridon and Morrowind are not translated. I sometimes think it depends on how much the translators recognized a meaning in the name or not. They're not always good at that... While Skyrim is correctly called Himmelsrand today (only the place, the game's name is still Skyrim), they did not translate it in Oblivion. They seemed not to recognize sky+rim, so they kept it and only changed the pronounciation... to Skürüm (or Skürim, I'm not sure, but the Y was pronounced like Ü).

Vestige is Seelenberaubter in German. A person whose soul was robbed. Literally, vestige would be Überbleibsel (a thing that remained) or Rest. You can't really use that for a person.

TheRealPotoroo

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Murkmire is "Tourbevase" (peat + mud).

That's a curiously bland translation. Murk in English is literally a thick, sometimes dark mist that obscures sight, and a mire is swampy or boggy ground where you can become trapped (mired). Put together it's a bit of a nightmare word, describing a singularly unpleasant and even dangerous place.

Syldras

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Murkmire is "Tourbevase" (peat + mud).

That's a curiously bland translation. Murk in English is literally a thick, sometimes dark mist that obscures sight, and a mire is swampy or boggy ground where you can become trapped (mired). Put together it's a bit of a nightmare word, describing a singularly unpleasant and even dangerous place.

In the German translation, they call it Trübmoor. "trüb" means both murky/dim/dull/blurry (like a thing you can't really see through) but also gloomy/dark (but not in a scary way, rather... calm and depressed. You also call the weather "trüb" if the sky is grey and it doesn't really get bright the whole day) And "Moor", well, bog/moor/swamp. To me, it doesn't sound mysterious or dangerous, just unpleasant. I normally call the region "Matschpfütze" (puddle of mud) when I chat with friends

Varana

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Regarding the names - yes, as I have written it, it's just my personal approach only. I was interested in it long ago, wondering why those royal names were translated while the same modern names were not. Still no direct answer neither on why it happened nor on when.

To be honest, to me it seems really strange to do that with personal names. If you would be Portuguese but would call yourself Jürgen, I would immediately ask myself why your parents gave you a German name. People don't usually do that, and that's not a new development. Many Huguenots, for instance, kept their French names and didn't germanise them.
It's also a sign of respect. You're called Jorge, not Jürgen. But to each their own.

As for royalty, that has slowly been changing over the last century. In accounts of the Great War, names alternate between Edward and Eduard of the UK, or between Carol and Karl of Romania, depending on the author's preference. Elizabeth II is still often called Elisabeth in German (mostly because the difference is minuscule) but Prince Charles has never been called Karl by anyone, ever. Historical Spanish kings have been translated (Philipp, Karl, Alfons, Ferdinand) but Juan Carlos has never been translated, from his accession in 1975 onwards, and the current king has completed the transition to a non-translated name: he's almost always Felipe VI, not Philipp VI. The pope, on the other hand, is still firmly Franziskus (also to retain the historical allusion to St Francis).
So the tradition is changing, and that's neither good nor bad, it just is.
I also think that this is caused by more exposure to foreign languages, heads of state, and people in general. Translating a name never was a thing anyway with non-European monarchs - there is no German version of Emperor Hirohito, or Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, and so on. People are much more used to hearing and speaking foreign languages in their everyday life, and are very much aware that the guy is not Karl or Wilhelm, and saying Charles or William has become very normal anyway.

Syldras

I agree with you altogether; just a small remark:

Varana wrote: »

The pope, on the other hand, is still firmly Franziskus (also to retain the historical allusion to St Francis).

The pope who was called *** (I'm sorry this is censored I've really just written his name!) in German media had the official name Benedictus. In Italy, they called him Benedetto, in English Benedict, in French Benoît. Before that, we had Johannes-Paul / Ioannes Paulus / Giovanni Paolo / John Paul / Jean-Paul (the second). So, I'm really wondering why in that case the name is still often translated? Maybe because he is not mainly seen as belonging to one country, but as the religious leader of Catholics of all countries? Would be my guess.

Also, place names, whether cities or countries. Why are some translated or named differently (Nippon -> Japan, Krung Thep -> Bangkok), some not? You could argue, sometimes a translation might be easier to remember or to pronounce, but I don't see a big difference in Nippon/Nihon or Japan. And why is Hannover spelled Hanover in English?

Varana

Yeah, that's what I meant - popes are still always translated. In this case, I think it is because the official name is in Latin, and that is used to transcend nationality anway, so adapting it to local languages is actually desired. And these are the names of Christian saints which have been known and venerated under local names for centuries.
(They censor Benedi-kt but not Benedict? What? )

As for country and place names, it's mostly tradition. There has been a move towards using more local names even for those recently (the German Wikipedia is especially obnoxious about it), but in the end, it's just how that developed, historically.

Faulgor

Syldras wrote: »

I agree with you altogether; just a small remark:

Varana wrote: »

The pope, on the other hand, is still firmly Franziskus (also to retain the historical allusion to St Francis).

The pope who was called *** (I'm sorry this is censored I've really just written his name!) in German media had the official name Benedictus. In Italy, they called him Benedetto, in English Benedict, in French Benoît. Before that, we had Johannes-Paul / Ioannes Paulus / Giovanni Paolo / John Paul / Jean-Paul (the second). So, I'm really wondering why in that case the name is still often translated? Maybe because he is not mainly seen as belonging to one country, but as the religious leader of Catholics of all countries? Would be my guess.

Also, place names, whether cities or countries. Why are some translated or named differently (Nippon -> Japan, Krung Thep -> Bangkok), some not? You could argue, sometimes a translation might be easier to remember or to pronounce, but I don't see a big difference in Nippon/Nihon or Japan. And why is Hannover spelled Hanover in English?

We should really come up with names for Tiber Septim in each of Tamriel's provinces. Besides Talos, that is.

Syldras

Varana wrote: »

(They censor Benedi-kt but not Benedict? What? )

The word filter of this forum is a big mystery to me. The German word for "homogenous" is also censored. You may write "homosexual" or "homonym", but you can't write "homogenous" - in the German subforum.

Faulgor wrote: »

We should really come up with names for Tiber Septim in each of Tamriel's provinces. Besides Talos, that is.

All regions have their different names for the Eight Divines. As for Talos... Well, there's the name Hjalti Early-Beard

TheRealPotoroo

Syldras wrote: »

Also, place names, whether cities or countries. Why are some translated or named differently (Nippon -> Japan, Krung Thep -> Bangkok), some not? You could argue, sometimes a translation might be easier to remember or to pronounce, but I don't see a big difference in Nippon/Nihon or Japan. And why is Hannover spelled Hanover in English?

The English word 'Japan' is derived from the Portuguese 'Gaipan'. The Portuguese held the island of Macau from the early 1500s, which is in a Cantonese speaking part of China, and the Cantonese pronunciation of the kanji characters 日本 ('sun' + 'origin' = Japan) gives the 'j' sound (from 'Jatbun') that in Japanese is 'ni.' This sort of thing is extremely common.

Hanover instead of Hannover is simply a case of English never really being standardised, so somebody wrote it down as Hanover and it stuck. Ironically, the modern trend is to use the 'nn' spelling in both English and German except for historical purposes, in which case you use 'Hanover' in English.

And why Bangkok? Because it beats saying "Krungthepmahanakhon Amonrattanakosin Mahintharayutthaya Mahadilokphop Noppharatratchathaniburirom Udomratchaniwetmahasathan Amonphimanawatansathit Sakkathattiyawitsanukamprasit" even once, that's why. (I'm not making that up. According to Wikipedia it means: "City of angels, great city of immortals, magnificent city of the nine gems, seat of the king, city of royal palaces, home of gods incarnate, erected by Vishvakarman at Indra's behest").

Aigym_Hlervu

Syldras wrote: »

I think it is an interesting approach. How do people react? Do they notice? Do they ask you why you have a name native to their country (I think that might be what they perceive)?

Not much, really. As I've said it, I'm an ordinary European man with blue eyes, light brown hair and none of those whom I spoke to ever recognized who I ever was . Hah, I remember those Italian barmen in 2004 . They were much surprised to know who I was in reality. We had interesting talks for many evenings at their bar. No, nobody ever asked as far as I remember. I remember only a few of my fellow countrymen who have ever asked me that question.

Varana wrote: »

To be honest, to me it seems really strange to do that with personal names. If you would be Portuguese but would call yourself Jürgen, I would immediately ask myself why your parents gave you a German name. People don't usually do that, and that's not a new development. Many Huguenots, for instance, kept their French names and didn't germanise them.
It's also a sign of respect. You're called Jorge, not Jürgen. But to each their own.

Yes, it might seem that way, you're absolutely right. But even if I told them the original form of my name, they still couldn't pronounce that correctly. None of them, actually . They pronounced and read it the way their languages forced them to do. That was happenning all the time. So, once I asked myself "Why make them distort my name and "suffer" that much to pronounce it, if I can give them a form of it they're used to and could easily pronounce?" - that was the only reason of this approach. Sometimes it worked vice versa - I just couldn't comprehend and pronounce the name of that Greek I met in 1999 in the vicinity of Corinth - his name was Ethymio. So I just used it's form in my language while he used the form of mine common to his one. I hope we were both happy with that . Ok, let's get back to TES names! Feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss this RL thing further, Varana.

Syldras

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

And why Bangkok? Because it beats saying "Krungthepmahanakhon Amonrattanakosin Mahintharayutthaya Mahadilokphop Noppharatratchathaniburirom Udomratchaniwetmahasathan Amonphimanawatansathit Sakkathattiyawitsanukamprasit" even once, that's why. (I'm not making that up. According to Wikipedia it means: "City of angels, great city of immortals, magnificent city of the nine gems, seat of the king, city of royal palaces, home of gods incarnate, erected by Vishvakarman at Indra's behest").

Nobody uses the whole word except for some official documents. Everyone just says Krung Thep. And that's not more difficult than Bangkok, is it?

Ajaxandriel

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

That is all very interesting, @Ajaxandriel. "Auridia" - sounds good, though it doesn't invoke a picture of an island to me anymore. I imagine a distand land, a harsh desert or something, somewhere in the East. "Le Marais Noir" - is it pronounced as " le mar" or "le marae" with a stress on "rae"? Beautiful words! Perhaps, the last question that might turn out to be the most exciting one. The Vestige . What is it in French edition? "Le Vestige" ? In my language this word means, well, basically, a trace, a remnant. We use this two words the most. But we never use this term to name a living being. Well, we use that "remnant" word meaning that someone is the only remnant left of something, so it is always used with that "of something" part. But it's odd to say something like "Hey, Vestige! I need to speak to you". Though it's odd to call someone a remnant of something that constantly, casually, too. So, we use that term "Soulless One" both for the Soulles Ones and the Vestige - it takes only one word to translate it, and it fits in perfectly. Heh, it reminded me of that lingual thing regarding the "undeath". It's the "undead" almost in any germanic language, based on that "un" and "death" parts. But in Russian it is based literally on the "un" and "life" parts - the "unlife". The same phenomenon, but the words seem to show us two opposite perspectives on it. Interesting. Bumped into it while translating some of the modern Russian poetry. Ah, this lingual topic can be a neverending discussion .

"Marais" is spelled marae, yes. Always last syllab, so it's "Le Marais Noir" => luhmaraynwAR

Vestige is a word of ours So yes it's Le Vestige. It is also a word for a ruin, or old item. But we can talk about people as a vestige, in poetry. More often as a fossile, fossile-vivant but it's disrespectful for a person

I can't remember an occurence of "soulless" (sans-âme) in the french version... Maybe it was always replaced by Le Vestige or I just don't remember.

We had no proper word for "undeath" (nor for russian "unlife" haha).
The Undead are "les morts-vivants" (the living dead ones, that makes sens since english have the Living Dead also) but sometimes fantasy game translators created both "la non-mort" and "la non-vie" for undeath as a concept, in Warcraft for example, that gave "les Non-morts" sometimes to name the type of creatures, but it's way rarer than les Morts-vivants.

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Murkmire is "Tourbevase" (peat + mud).

That's a curiously bland translation. Murk in English is literally a thick, sometimes dark mist that obscures sight, and a mire is swampy or boggy ground where you can become trapped (mired). Put together it's a bit of a nightmare word, describing a singularly unpleasant and even dangerous place.

The fact is french has not a word for "murk", not even a concept of what it is (even with translation I can't really figure out...)

But I agree it's a bit bland. "Le Bourbier" would have approached the general sense more. Or at least "Troubletourbe" (not easy to spell but bubbling like a bog).

TheRealPotoroo

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Murkmire is "Tourbevase" (peat + mud).

That's a curiously bland translation. Murk in English is literally a thick, sometimes dark mist that obscures sight, and a mire is swampy or boggy ground where you can become trapped (mired). Put together it's a bit of a nightmare word, describing a singularly unpleasant and even dangerous place.

The fact is french has not a word for "murk", not even a concept of what it is (even with translation I can't really figure out...)

But I agree it's a bit bland. "Le Bourbier" would have approached the general sense more. Or at least "Troubletourbe" (not easy to spell but bubbling like a bog).

FWIW, Google Translate suggests obscurité for murk, and le bourbier as an option for mire.

Aigym_Hlervu

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Vestige is a word of ours So yes it's Le Vestige. It is also a word for a ruin, or old item. But we can talk about people as a vestige, in poetry. More often as a fossile, fossile-vivant but it's disrespectful for a person

I can't remember an occurence of "soulless" (sans-âme) in the french version... Maybe it was always replaced by Le Vestige or I just don't remember.

Le Vestige.. Hmm.. That sounds French, indeed.. I thought I was saying a good joke there - who could ever guess that was the "le Vestige" indeed ..

Soulluss Ones! Stop, I was wrong on that - they're called the Soul Shriven. I meant, there was no difference between le Vestige (ah, I think I'll be saying it that way till the very end ) and the Soul Shriven - we call them the Soulless Ones here.

Cundu_Ertur

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

The fact is french has not a word for "murk", not even a concept of what it is (even with translation I can't really figure out...)

But I agree it's a bit bland. "Le Bourbier" would have approached the general sense more. Or at least "Troubletourbe" (not easy to spell but bubbling like a bog).

What about sombre? It's just like the English word somber, only different I'm sure.

Murk is the same as Mirk (as in Mirkwood). Is there no translation for Mirkwood, then?

Faylestar

19. Nightblade - is it like a night-stool, i.e. a blade used at night, or.. Why a sentient being is called with that word?

Night can be used to mean darkness or shadow.

It's ESO's take on the rogue type, similar to Blackguard. An assassin who moves in the shadows.

Walker, Shadow Walker - the word "walker" is untranslatable to my language. The closest one resembles with the "pedestrian". A "shadow pedestrian" - yeah, that sounds brave.. "The one who walks" - why was this word ever invented in English ? We do have words for "crawler", "flyer", "jumper" (though they're all very casual, funny, and are used very rarely) - but not for the "walker".

This is a fun one. Its used in a vast number of ways, though it shares some concepts with Nightblade.

It can both be literal, as someone who walks in the shadows (as a sneak, or a thief would) or it can draw more from Urban Fantasy, used to represent someone who wears many masks, and isnt forthright about exactly who or what they are (a confidence man).

In either case, its someone who feels most comfortable when some part of themselves is obfuscated (in shadow).

vibeborn

ESO has not been translated into my language, which I'm more than happy about. I just don't think Natklinge (Nightblade) or Drageridder (Dragonknight) sounds that appealing. Now I think I'm going to translate all the names and stuff just to see how it would sound

The word which caused me the biggest wat moment, is the world Blackguard (which apparently is pronounced 'Blaggerd')

Lysette

It was a bad idea to localize names of locations, skills and items - I have all the time a problem when I play with german friends and they use names where I have to think what might it be equivalent to in english, it causes confusion and hinders fluent communication. But this isn't ZOS's fault, Bethesda has done this already in their single player TES games, where it is less of a problem. But I guess it is futile to discuss this now - it's in the game now and to change it would be cumbersome.

A simple solution would have been to see these names as labels - label-names do not have to make sense (even they often do) nor do they have to be translated - we use so many names untranslated - motherboard for example - no one would say Mutterbrett in german f.e. beside for the purpose to ridicule it. Or take the german word Zeitgeist f.e., it is used in english untranslated as well.

Tommy_The_Gun

Remember how Cyrodiil campaigns were named during last year Elsweyr year - long story ?
Yolnahkriin, Laatvulon, Mulaamnir, Kaalgrontiid, Kaalgrontiid...

For a non - English native speaker those names were pretty much this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHxO0UdpoxM

Lysette

vibeborn wrote: »

ESO has not been translated into my language, which I'm more than happy about. I just don't think Natklinge (Nightblade) or Drageridder (Dragonknight) sounds that appealing. Now I think I'm going to translate all the names and stuff just to see how it would sound

The word which caused me the biggest wat moment, is the world Blackguard (which apparently is pronounced 'Blaggerd')

Yeah, emphasis of words is different in different languages and especially in spoken language, where people have different rules how to make words more pleasing for daily use. And english has a whole lot of rules when it comes to soundless letters as well - take "basically" for example - the a in -ally is not pronounced - or take often - the t is not pronounced and so on. Then in spoken language words are combined into one if they connect well or can be shortened - blackguard is such an example - instead to have 2 emphasis in the word, you have just one at the start of the word and combine both parts into one.

Varana

That said, Blackguard is a special case. It seemingly consists of two normal English words but completely changes pronunciation in this context. It was also a surprise to many native English speakers.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Remember how Cyrodiil campaigns were named during last year Elsweyr year - long story ?
Yolnahkriin, Laatvulon, Mulaamnir, Kaalgrontiid, Kaalgrontiid...

For a non - English native speaker those names were pretty much this:...

Also for an English speaker because they obviously aren't English words.
(P.S. You forgot the most important campaign - Balokdaan. )
In fact, it sometimes seems as if I have considerably fewer issues with weird names like these, or the Dwarven ones, than English speakers.

Aigym_Hlervu

Lysette wrote: »

It was a bad idea to localize names of locations, skills and items - I have all the time a problem when I play with german friends and they use names where I have to think what might it be equivalent to in english, it causes confusion and hinders fluent communication. But this isn't ZOS's fault, Bethesda has done this already in their single player TES games, where it is less of a problem. But I guess it is futile to discuss this now - it's in the game now and to change it would be cumbersome.

A simple solution would have been to see these names as labels - label-names do not have to make sense (even they often do) nor do they have to be translated - we use so many names untranslated - motherboard for example - no one would say Mutterbrett in german f.e. beside for the purpose to ridicule it. Or take the german word Zeitgeist f.e., it is used in english untranslated as well.

Somehow it reminded me of my favourite of Kaya Yanar's - the "Der, die, das" thing . I think it's quite comprehensive even to those who don't speak German at all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21uhFCljlU

"Die Bus.. Der Bus.. Das Bus! Das Buuus!" .

Ajaxandriel

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Murkmire is "Tourbevase" (peat + mud).

That's a curiously bland translation. Murk in English is literally a thick, sometimes dark mist that obscures sight, and a mire is swampy or boggy ground where you can become trapped (mired). Put together it's a bit of a nightmare word, describing a singularly unpleasant and even dangerous place.

The fact is french has not a word for "murk", not even a concept of what it is (even with translation I can't really figure out...)

But I agree it's a bit bland. "Le Bourbier" would have approached the general sense more. Or at least "Troubletourbe" (not easy to spell but bubbling like a bog).

FWIW, Google Translate suggests obscurité for murk, and le bourbier as an option for mire.

Yeah but "obscur" is dark, not murk. We have no murk
"Bourbier" is used also for bad place generally or any unpleasant situation

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

I was wrong on that - they're called the Soul Shriven. I meant, there was no difference between le Vestige (ah, I think I'll be saying it that way till the very end ) and the Soul Shriven - we call them the Soulless Ones here.

Ah, "les Absous"!
That reminds me how strange it sounds for souls twisted by a Daedra to be called "absous"/shriven.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

The fact is french has not a word for "murk", not even a concept of what it is (even with translation I can't really figure out...)

But I agree it's a bit bland. "Le Bourbier" would have approached the general sense more. Or at least "Troubletourbe" (not easy to spell but bubbling like a bog).

What about sombre? It's just like the English word somber, only different I'm sure.

Murk is the same as Mirk (as in Mirkwood). Is there no translation for Mirkwood, then?

"Sombre" is dark too

And indeed we cannot translate Mirkwood, so it became "La Forêt Noire", the Black Forest, like the one on the german side of the Rhine hahaha!
In older translations, it was "la Forêt de Grand'Peur", that sounded more childish (the Forest of Great'Fear).

Lysette wrote: »

It was a bad idea to localize names of locations, skills and items - I have all the time a problem when I play with german friends and they use names where I have to think what might it be equivalent to in english, it causes confusion and hinders fluent communication. But this isn't ZOS's fault, Bethesda has done this already in their single player TES games, where it is less of a problem. But I guess it is futile to discuss this now - it's in the game now and to change it would be cumbersome

No of course not! The BIGGEST mistake ZoS did is making us all europeans play on the same megaserver.

There should have been a UI toggle to select language-specific layers to be logged into. From the begining!

Aigym_Hlervu

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

There should have been a UI toggle to select language-specific layers to be logged into. From the begining!

Reminded me of that scary story I once read:
"It happened in the middle of a night. I was hungry, so I opened the fridge looking for something edible to tie on the nosebag. I decided to make a salad, so I took some tomatoes, a cucumber and some greens. I diced everything, but realized I had forgotten the mayonnaise - what a slow-poke I was! So I opened the fridge again, took the mayonnaise and finally noticed some sushi there. I've never eaten a sushi, but realized I had a craving for it! So I asked myself: "If I have a craving for that sushi, why don't I give it a try?" So I dressed the salad, tried that sushi, everything with all the trimmings, but suddenly すべてが赤と白に変わった。 どうしたの? 何も知らない! 突然二人の侍と三人の芸者が台所に入った。 侍はすぐに自殺し、二人の芸者は太陽について何かを歌った。 私は彼らと一緒に歌って踊り始めたが、その後、私はいくつかのピカチュウを探すために私を呼んで路上で誰かを聞きました。 そして、私は私のキャデラックがトヨタになったことを見て、私は母国語でその言葉を覚えていません! AAAAAA! 私は日本語以外の言語を知らない! Completely exhausted, I woke up laying on the floor early in the morning.. Damn, that sushi must have been cursed.."

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