I can't make any veteran dungeon because they kick me out for my low CP

idk

NVNNN wrote: »

There is nothing toxic about kicking low cp players from dungeons.

You queue for veteran dungeons at cp 160, you queue for dlc veteran dungeons at 300++. Otherwise you get kicked. End of story. You are incapable of contributing to the group and thus getting carried by other people. It's unfair to expect random people to enjoy this type of environment.

I have found this to not be the case. I have seen (been one of them on an alt account) a CP 160 healer that was actually doing some health yet out DPSed the rest of the group that as CP capped.

A couple friends and myself often queue to see what we will get. More timed than not we get a CP capped player that struggles to pull 20% of the group.

We can easily carry them so no need to kick anyone.

Back when I used to queue as a solution tank to help the GF I spawned into a vet dungeon and the healer was trying to vote kick a CP 180 player. Fortunately, that healer quit the group and a smooth run because we would not vote kick. We cleared HM without an issue and without a healer. That lowbie probably did better than the healer would have. Lol.

santhoranb16_ESO

Xebov wrote: »

Just because the mechanics are easy doesnt mean that every newcomer understands them. It also doesnt mean that other players have the duty of carrying unfit players.

If one is actively not engaging, or not even trying to support the group, a kick is sure justified, but if one is going to learn the mechanics but one's to lazy to grant em help with that, it is toxic behavior.

amm7sb14_ESO

Xebov wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Having played both NA and EU, I think EU is generally more toxic with things like this. Sadly.

Care to explain what this situation has to do with toxic? The game allows the player to do vet, but players know that he is unlikely to be useful for completing the dungeon. So he gets kicked and is confused. There is nothing toxic about it, he is not abused or harrased in any way.

What you have to understand here is that its not the job of other players to carry unfit ppl. Thats why a kick function exists in the first place. Its every players own responsibility to read up about the stuff in the game and prepare accordingly.

The word "Toxic" is used way to inflationary whenever ppl have to deal with situations they dont like.

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

non DLC dungeons are all *** easy, soloable, 1-mechanic dungeons, and you need 300cp to get into DLC. So there is no problem there, the game is working as expected.

Just because the mechanics are easy doesnt mean that every newcomer understands them. It also doesnt mean that other players have the duty of carrying unfit players.

newtinmpls wrote: »

I'm sad to hear that - it sounds like a lonely way to level. One thing that I really like in ESO is the sheer number of friendly and supportive people; there are lots of helpful guilds that will help newbies, and I've even offered (and been given) help in chat/impromptu in game.

It doesnt mean that i played solo. It just means that i didnt randomly use other players as some sort of google substitute and pester them with basic questions that can be answered by a 10s google search. Im just capable of utilizing the data that is available independently from other players and i care enought about my group to do so, unlike many "DD" players i encounter.

Kicking people and keeping them out of game content because they don't meet your arbitrary standards is toxic.

If you're not up for "carrying" someone who is still going through the learning process, it's you that should be staying out of the dungeon finder, not them.

You're more than welcome to create a pre-made group to do your dungeons.

newtinmpls

[snip]

Lowbies have the "you have no CP/One Tamriel' boost, so they usually do fine, with some coaching/support

High CP/super experienced folks often do fine.

It's that grey area where you are "officially vet" (have some CP) but haven't quite maxed it out and are still struggling after the One Tamriel benefits abandon you - that can be a challenging time.

That's when a good community jumps in and says "try this" or "try that" or just silently ups their own game if not in a teaching place/mood.

That's when unkind people vote to kick even before they know anything other than a number on the screen.

People give what they have inside - if they are toxic, well then leave them, as you will have more fun elsewhere. If they try claim it's "deserved" or whatever - remember people give what they have, and if all they have is crabby intolerance, then that's what they give.

Try to give them something a little kinder back, but don't stick around. Find some more fun peeps to adventure with.

[edited for baiting]

E-Zekiel

For the most part, you won't be kicked for low CP if you're at least at 160, as that's the max gear level. If you're kicked after that point it's due to personality conflicts or the feeling that people are dying because of you

Ri_Khan

When it comes to vet pugs, if I get matched with some sub-160 player(s), I know it's going to be a slow run. If they try sneaking past the test mob, I'll drop in a heartbeat, even if I was in queue for 45 minutes. Some people are clueless I guess?

Yusuf

Any player below cp 160 is DEAD WEIGHT in vet dungeons, sure people can carry you through it but it's their choice not to do so. I would kick you too.
The game has normal dungeons for a reason, they are intended for the level you are at.

It's the same kind of issue as "fake tanks" people keep complaining about, only in this case we're talking about fake dps.

amm7sb14_ESO

Yusuf wrote: »

Any player below cp 160 is DEAD WEIGHT in vet dungeons, sure people can carry you through it but it's their choice not to do so. I would kick you too.
The game has normal dungeons for a reason, they are intended for the level you are at.

It's the same kind of issue as "fake tanks" people keep complaining about, only in this case we're talking about fake dps.

You can queue for vet dungeons at lvl 50, so no, normal dungeons arent intended for cp levels

It's so sad to see some of the attitudes in our community.

Aznarb

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Yusuf wrote: »

Any player below cp 160 is DEAD WEIGHT in vet dungeons, sure people can carry you through it but it's their choice not to do so. I would kick you too.
The game has normal dungeons for a reason, they are intended for the level you are at.

It's the same kind of issue as "fake tanks" people keep complaining about, only in this case we're talking about fake dps.

You can queue for vet dungeons at lvl 50, so no, normal dungeons arent intended for cp levels

It's so sad to see some of the attitudes in our community.

And kick fonction is also a part of this.
If people don't have time to sleep on DG, they've the right to kick.

That the deal with Group Finder.
People using it can't expect decent player every time.
People not carrying their weight should expect a kick as much as a carry.

Majority vote and that all.
I've carried, teach patiently to many player new or not, and I've kick so much more of these because they don't read/speak/know strat/do 0 dmg/get OS as Tank by trash/etc...

When I want to be sur, or just where I can, I group with friend, then, no problem.
If you use group finder, then is lottery so you shouldn't expect anything.

radiostar

I thought Z once said vet dunges are tuned to 300 cp. But maybe they changed it.

Tammany

Don't worry you will be kicked even with 300 cp by some broken english germans who have 800+cp.

Dusk_Coven

This is why we need solo modes -- the arrogance of people who think everyone must be at gear cap or endgame. As if they themselves started the game immediately at cp160 or cp810.

All those people who oppose solo modes because "it's an MMO you're supposed to do group stuff" -- obviously that objection is rubbish.

Ratinira

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

This is why we need solo modes -- the arrogance of people who think everyone must be at gear cap or endgame. As if they themselves started the game immediately at cp160 or cp810.

All those people who oppose solo modes because "it's an MMO you're supposed to do group stuff" -- obviously that objection is rubbish.

Well, at first we have a normal mode. It is before vet mode. If you are a low lvl noob you go to normal dungeon, not vet.
Solo mode will not help from noobs goind to vet dundeons just after they reach lvl 50.

HybrisCross

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

the arrogance of people who think everyone must be at gear cap or endgame. As if they themselves started the game immediately at cp160 or cp810.

typical selfish answer of what this community is in reality.

Sometimes it is good to just admit veteran stuff is not for low cp, that's all; mobs are tankier, do a lot of damage , resist better.

So why a party should endure a tank unable to tank coz ineffective cp/gear, why a party should tryhard with at best 40k dps overall ? ( and the funny thing here, that's they will launch the HM without asking !! ^^ )

Are you guys able to think in another way that, oh yea you can do it, coz i met high cp who struggle as low cp ?

How much of you here are really running PUG ? I play this game solo for 95%, i have play most of raid/dungeon in pug and the fact is : majority of low cp are unable to play properly their class/gear/ play mechanic.You can try to babysit them as healer, they still find a way to die or make the fight harder than they are basically.

The pug mode should suffer the fact half of guys don't know mechanic or play them the bad way, do you thinks it's fun to play with guys unable to stand away from aoe, dieing in chain , making party wipe ?

IMO, 75% of the community is just selfish, go in content without any preparation, any invest in. If you are here to learn, there are ton of guilds to provide you knowledge and guidance. And don't declare high cp are arrogant, just pledge when it's eso free and you will see all dungeons with randomers that are here coz it's finally their chance to get the stuff they need and just wait to be carry in and don't give a *** about you and your will to help/guide them.
The veteran is not for fun, if you wants fun, you go in normal , if you just wants to enjoy your game, you ahve plenty to go through without killing the entertainment of 3 others buddies.

To be back to the author, if he is kicked, he do wrong that's all, pug are not that offensive, generally high cp leave directly or leave after the first boss, just after figuring what is happening.

Dusk_Coven

Ratinira wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

This is why we need solo modes -- the arrogance of people who think everyone must be at gear cap or endgame. As if they themselves started the game immediately at cp160 or cp810.

All those people who oppose solo modes because "it's an MMO you're supposed to do group stuff" -- obviously that objection is rubbish.

Well, at first we have a normal mode. It is before vet mode. If you are a low lvl noob you go to normal dungeon, not vet.
Solo mode will not help from noobs goind to vet dundeons just after they reach lvl 50.

If people are kicking because a supposed lowbie will slow them down, what's to prevent them from having that same attitude everywhere, even in a normal dungeon? They already race ahead solo and ditch everyone behind in normal dungeons -- because they didn't really want to group, but needed 3 warm bodies to get them the daily random bonus.

There are more than enough selfish and arrogant people that a solo mode is overdue. Not just to avoid those people, but for those people to do their own thing and not bother anyone else with their attitude.

maxjapank

I may be one of the few experienced players who likes to pug. I don't know why, but I enjoy it. In fact, last night I joined up with a group where ( I guess ) one of the dps left. Upon joining, I inquired if I was replacing someone, and they said yes - welcome to our nightmare. They said they had been trying for an hour on this one boss and died countless times. So we gave it a go and did it in one go. They were happy. Then we went on to finish the last boss in one try, too. Quick easy run for me. They were happy. And I was happy I could help.

However, I did initiate a kick a few weeks ago when I played a healer. And I'm not sorry about it. First off, the guy's health was quite low. Doubt he had food. But even so, this is not the sole reason I kicked him. He also continued to die multiple times on boss fights. But again, I'm pretty patient and would given him food or tips. What broke the camel's back was his repeatedly asking for a merchant after every fight so he could clear his bags. I didn't mind it so much the first time. But every time? So taking everything into consideration, I initiated a kick. It passed. And a really good dps joined. And we sailed through the dungeon.

Ratinira

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Ratinira wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

This is why we need solo modes -- the arrogance of people who think everyone must be at gear cap or endgame. As if they themselves started the game immediately at cp160 or cp810.

All those people who oppose solo modes because "it's an MMO you're supposed to do group stuff" -- obviously that objection is rubbish.

Well, at first we have a normal mode. It is before vet mode. If you are a low lvl noob you go to normal dungeon, not vet.
Solo mode will not help from noobs goind to vet dundeons just after they reach lvl 50.

If people are kicking because a supposed lowbie will slow them down, what's to prevent them from having that same attitude everywhere, even in a normal dungeon? They already race ahead solo and ditch everyone behind in normal dungeons -- because they didn't really want to group, but needed 3 warm bodies to get them the daily random bonus.

There are more than enough selfish and arrogant people that a solo mode is overdue. Not just to avoid those people, but for those people to do their own thing and not bother anyone else with their attitude.

The noob is kicked after the first boss. Each time.
It is not "supposed to slow". It is "already slowing significantly". And each group thinks the same. Maybe the problem is not in groups?

Algorax

Tigerseye wrote: »

If they're unaware they're not being selfish.

IF... IF they are being unaware.

Tigerseye wrote: »

Players that do that are making their decisions based purely on some kind of misguided principle, that they don't want to help people who they deem unready, rather than being pragmatic about time.

Of cooooourse, i am sure it has NOTHING to do with the fact that they often wipe at THE FIRST BOSS of a NON-DLC dungeon, as the OP clearly reported. It surely must be that we are all mean and selfish persons and you are the virtuous one!

Tigerseye wrote: »

If these people have a problem with low CP players being able to queue, they should take it up with ZOS, rather than holding the group up, unecessarily, with kick votes and divaesque behaviour.

At this point i am really starting to question your seriousness about this topic. Provided that EVERYONE here has a certain degree of understandment that a low cp player unavoidably slows your team, you still manage to say that removing the weaker element slows the team.
You also seem to miss the point, either on purpose or not: players have NO PROBLEM with low CP players per se, since we all were one at some point during our path, it is a low CP player that HAS A PROBLEM with vet dungeons and that, my dear, is a fact.

Aznarb

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Ratinira wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

This is why we need solo modes -- the arrogance of people who think everyone must be at gear cap or endgame. As if they themselves started the game immediately at cp160 or cp810.

All those people who oppose solo modes because "it's an MMO you're supposed to do group stuff" -- obviously that objection is rubbish.

Well, at first we have a normal mode. It is before vet mode. If you are a low lvl noob you go to normal dungeon, not vet.
Solo mode will not help from noobs goind to vet dundeons just after they reach lvl 50.

If people are kicking because a supposed lowbie will slow them down, what's to prevent them from having that same attitude everywhere, even in a normal dungeon? They already race ahead solo and ditch everyone behind in normal dungeons -- because they didn't really want to group, but needed 3 warm bodies to get them the daily random bonus.

There are more than enough selfish and arrogant people that a solo mode is overdue. Not just to avoid those people, but for those people to do their own thing and not bother anyone else with their attitude.

If you want to avoid them find a guild and stop complain.
I don't complain when I see a bad player, I just kick him if he don't speak/read chat.
I don't complain when a nooby ask for strat, I teach them and helps them my best.
I never, ever, get kick, why ? Probably because I do my job and in that case, weirdly, the community became way more friendly ? I know, strange..

I can also said for sur than I've kick much more bad high CP player than low, I'm more patient with them, but if they don't read/ask for strat and advice, it's a kick. I'm here to play and have fun, not to carry random people.

And when I wanna play some stupid build I do it with my guild, not in pug. It's called respect.

NVNNN

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

NVNNN wrote: »

There is nothing toxic about kicking low cp players from dungeons.

You queue for veteran dungeons at cp 160, you queue for dlc veteran dungeons at 300++. Otherwise you get kicked. End of story. You are incapable of contributing to the group and thus getting carried by other people. It's unfair to expect random people to enjoy this type of environment.

Or, alternatively, if you want to have control over who is in the dungeon with you, you are free to make a pre-made group and enter the dungeon that way.

*you can actually queue for vet dungeons at level 50, so that's actually when you are intended to be allowed to start vet content.

No, you're not intended to. It's a faulty system that makes people of very varying skill and power level to play in one matchmaking pool.

Easy vanilla dungeons - whatever, no one cares if there's a newbie running around. If it's a difficult one, especially a dlc one, a newer player is not supposed to be there, but the game never explains to him what challenges await out there and how he could be more efficient in that challenging enviroment.

NVNNN

Alright, will reply to everyone in one post:

1. Cases where high cp player dramatically underperforms in comparison to low cp players are quite rare and it's silly to use those rare cases as a valid arguement. Btw, high cp player with low dps should also be a subject to kick from the group;
2. When you queue for group content and select a role, you're supposed to perform it and do your best to contribute. You are no longer in a solo enviroment, there are other people relying on your actions. Your build is supposed to be optimized and "funny stuff" must be left outside of the dungeon/trial. Doing little damage as a dps, being bad at mitigation and aggro as a tank, not providing useful effects as a healer and expecting other people to go along is toxic, not the other way around;
3. I am not complaining. I literally have neither negative nor positive emotion about kicking underperforming players from pugs. It's just a right thing to do. More often i explain them afterwards why they got kicked and try to reply to every offensive comment about this action. The mindset is simple: the more you get kicked from groups due to underperfomance, the more likely you are to improve for future runs.
4. One of the most cancerous things about ESO community is tolerance, no matter how bad it sounds. Yes, more experienced players are supposed to help out less experienced players. I myself participate in dungeon and trial training runs, help others with class mechanics or whatnot, but the key thing here is the mindset. People are supposed to improve. If you do everything for newer players and don't explain them things they might not find obvious about gameplay due to lack of experience, they'll never improve and shall remain those saltrice wagons who're fine with just pressing buttons and believing they're doing fine.

amm7sb14_ESO

This game's community makes me so sad sometimes.

Kingslayer513

NVNNN wrote: »

Alright, will reply to everyone in one post:

1. Cases where high cp player dramatically underperforms in comparison to low cp players are quite rare and it's silly to use those rare cases as a valid arguement. Btw, high cp player with low dps should also be a subject to kick from the group;
2. When you queue for group content and select a role, you're supposed to perform it and do your best to contribute. You are no longer in a solo enviroment, there are other people relying on your actions. Your build is supposed to be optimized and "funny stuff" must be left outside of the dungeon/trial. Doing little damage as a dps, being bad at mitigation and aggro as a tank, not providing useful effects as a healer and expecting other people to go along is toxic, not the other way around;
3. I am not complaining. I literally have neither negative nor positive emotion about kicking underperforming players from pugs. It's just a right thing to do. More often i explain them afterwards why they got kicked and try to reply to every offensive comment about this action. The mindset is simple: the more you get kicked from groups due to underperfomance, the more likely you are to improve for future runs.
4. One of the most cancerous things about ESO community is tolerance, no matter how bad it sounds. Yes, more experienced players are supposed to help out less experienced players. I myself participate in dungeon and trial training runs, help others with class mechanics or whatnot, but the key thing here is the mindset. People are supposed to improve. If you do everything for newer players and don't explain them things they might not find obvious about gameplay due to lack of experience, they'll never improve and shall remain those saltrice wagons who're fine with just pressing buttons and believing they're doing fine.

This.

I especially got a chuckle at that one post that basically said "you are toxic if you don't want to carry someone in dungeon finder". If y'all wanna be carried, you should make a pre-made to do so. Not the other way around. Talk about entitlement, sheesh.

BisDasBlutGefriert

How's your leveling process going? Were you able to finally get in with a group to any of the runs you wanted to?

debesyla

Do you also try to be a surgeon without any education before?

...because, well, duh. There is a CP limit for a reason. (And I say this as a newbie myself.)

Jeremy

debesyla wrote: »

Do you also try to be a surgeon without any education before?

...because, well, duh. There is a CP limit for a reason. (And I say this as a newbie myself.)

Getting more CP isn't much of an education. You could be max CP and never stepped into a veteran dungeon before.

The best way to learn how to do veteran content is to do veteran content. Experience is the best teacher. If players are constantly kicked then they are never going to be able to learn.

debesyla

Jeremy wrote: »

The best way to learn how to do veteran content is to do veteran content. Experience is the best teacher. If players are constantly kicked then they are never going to be able to learn.

Actually... You make a good point! Hmm!

Xebov

santhoranb16_ESO wrote: »

If one is actively not engaging, or not even trying to support the group, a kick is sure justified, but if one is going to learn the mechanics but one's to lazy to grant em help with that, it is toxic behavior.

You are mixing up 2 things here. If someone just needs some mechanics explained but does fine otehrwise there is no issue. What i see most of the time are players that need the mechanics explained but at the same time have characters with build that are simply unfit for the content. Stuff like to low max health, no damage are the most common and effect the whole group. Thats the point where you are no longer helping but instead carrying because the player is clearly not capable of filling its role. The worst part about this is that most of these players dont listen to advice or explanations and most of them are also not capable of taking critic. I see many DDs that are instantly highly offended when i tell them that they should read up a bit about builds and improve their to become better suited for the harder game modes.

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Kicking people and keeping them out of game content because they don't meet your arbitrary standards is toxic.

Such standards come from experience. If i see DDs dealing a total of 10k combined DPS in a vet pledge i know that tehy will not make it in a reasonable amount of time. If i see them having 12k life and i know that the Endboss will just one shot them than thats also experience.

No matter where you go, in every game, everywhere in the real world you will find "arbitrary" standards that are based on experience. Just because you dont like them doesnt make them toxic. Every player has the right to expect others to perform to a certain minimum in group content.

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

If you're not up for "carrying" someone who is still going through the learning process, it's you that should be staying out of the dungeon finder, not them.

You misstake players that need a little push into the right direction with players that dont care. The most inexperienced players i encounter are not in a learning process. They simply dont care. They dont react to advices and they get offended when i tell them that they need to improve for the content they are trying to make. Sometimes they even openly tell me that all they want is a carry. These are the players that create the most issues because they never reflect and are a burden for the groups. Just because tehy exist doesnt mean that otehrs shouldnt use the dungeon finder just because they dont agree with this. The dungeon finder is a group tool and everyone can expect that everyone else in the group puts in some efford to get it done. Instead it often enought ends like the typical school project where 2 ppl do all the work and the remaining 2 just sit back and are happy nor a nice mark.

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

You're more than welcome to create a pre-made group to do your dungeons.

Sometimes i do it sometimes i dont. Luckily the game provides a kick function that can be used to get rid of these 5k DPS "DD"s or the 12k "fun builds" that think tehy can get free rides for the vet hm pledges.

NVNNN wrote: »

People are supposed to improve. If you do everything for newer players and don't explain them things they might not find obvious about gameplay due to lack of experience, they'll never improve and shall remain those saltrice wagons who're fine with just pressing buttons and believing they're doing fine.

To be honest i stopped caring about this a long time ago. Ppl notoriously dont tell if tehy have no clue. If i notice it and try to explain they often dont listen. If i tell them that the mode requires them to improve in order to make it a smooth run tehy are often enought offended and want to tell me how toxic iam for telling them that their personal efford was not enought. So my solution is i eitehr kick or just leave without saying a word. Why? Because i had enought low level players harassing me for 10+ minutes trying to tell me their "opinion" about how good they are. Most players simply dont want to go beyond some "fun" garbage they put together so i ignore their existance and i dont care anymore because its less stressful this way.

Ratinira

Jeremy wrote: »

debesyla wrote: »

Do you also try to be a surgeon without any education before?

...because, well, duh. There is a CP limit for a reason. (And I say this as a newbie myself.)

Getting more CP isn't much of an education. You could be max CP and never stepped into a veteran dungeon before.

The best way to learn how to do veteran content is to do veteran content. Experience is the best teacher. If players are constantly kicked then they are never going to be able to learn.

They will learn that vet dungeon is not done by people for fun and there are some requirements there
It is called "vetaran" for a reason. And there is other, "normal" version for a reason too.
One who has hit lvl 50 an hour ago and can do 10k damage is not a "veteran" player.

Players not learning how to play *in* vet dungeans. They should learn that *before* them. The same with vet trials. The fact that one *can* enter them doesn't mean that should do that.

Klad

Okay...

How do you not make CP?

I mean if you just play the game they fall out of the sky.