I can't make any veteran dungeon because they kick me out for my low CP

Algorax

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Keep trying. Most groups aren’t that toxic, you probably just had some bad luck. It won’t take long to get to 160 CP.

You don't join vet runs at cp 50. That was not toxicity: it was plain good sense.

Brrrofski

While I agree that you should get to cp160 and then queue, for most dungeons I wouldn't care.

The DLC ones and one or two base games one would be hard with a low cp, but most are stupidly easily anyway so I wouldn't care.

But get to 160. It won't take long.

Grianasteri

A1xe wrote: »

Hi guys, why everyone thinks you need high CP for Veteran Dungeon? I cant do anything right now. Everytime when i do the 1st boss they kick me w/o reason (i think its because my low cp or dps) now i have 50 cp and at leats 40 cp items and some lvl 50 but i cant get more good items for this reason. Its super annoying. What i can do? Just make random normal?

Yes, at low CP, this is going to happen. Especially at very low CP, like you, and even more so in veteran DLC content for instance.

Its a simple fact that at your level of CP, you will be no where near the potential dps you and your character are capable of, you just don't have the CPs needed.

That said, its perfectly possible to do awesome dps with low CPs and people should give everyone a chance, I always give folk a chance and never kick just on the basis of CP alone. But when I was low CP, I was constantly kicked, over and over again, without any explanation.

You have to understand that once you get to a certain level, you want to plough through a dungeon, get your pledge, quest, daily xp and move on asap. The sad fact is a lotta folk do not have the patience or time or inclination to help newer players, or to risk the dungeon taking ages. I don't agree with that stance personally as I feel new players are the life blood of ESO, but its clearly prevalent.

Tigerseye

I have been in a couple of groups like that, lately.

In one, the tank wanted to kick the sub 160CP player, even though the group's average CP was more than high enough to complete the dungeon.

I was over 1200CP, for example and healer was very good at their job.

Tank was saying it was a "hard dungeon" - it wasn't, it was a moderate one.

Tank initiated a kick, I declined, tank left, new tank joined and we completed the last boss on hm, first time, no deaths.

Told tank via whisper and he just bragged he was on his second dungeon, now.

Well, of course he would be, if he is a tank, kicks anyone low CP and can get an instant queue...

But, the point is, if we did it first time, without him, we could presumably have done it even quicker if he hadn't left.

Some people are just utterly selfish and just don't want anything that slows them down, at all.

Tigerseye

Algorax wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Keep trying. Most groups aren’t that toxic, you probably just had some bad luck. It won’t take long to get to 160 CP.

You don't join vet runs at cp 50. That was not toxicity: it was plain good sense.

People should use common sense - if everyone else's CP is very high and it isn't a very hard dungeon, one low CP player won't normally matter.

It's the average CP that matters, not just one person's.

redlink1979

Run dungeons with friends or guild mates. They tend to be a LOT more patient.

Tigerseye

Brrrofski wrote: »

While I agree that you should get to cp160 and then queue, for most dungeons I wouldn't care.

The DLC ones and one or two base games one would be hard with a low cp, but most are stupidly easily anyway so I wouldn't care.

But get to 160. It won't take long.

This.

Although, I would add that it is the game's fault if it allows people, who aren't yet ready in terms of CP, to queue.

It is not the fault of the player.

Algorax

Tigerseye wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Keep trying. Most groups aren’t that toxic, you probably just had some bad luck. It won’t take long to get to 160 CP.

You don't join vet runs at cp 50. That was not toxicity: it was plain good sense.

People should use common sense - if everyone else's CP is very high and it isn't a very hard dungeon, one low CP player won't normally matter.

It's the average CP that matters, not just one person's.

Regardless of the average CP level, which i mentioned in the previous post, CP 50 is still to low. Your very presence in the team hinders the efforts, slowing the team down significantly in the best case scenario, wiping the team in the worst.
Again: good sense

Fawn4287

160 for normal 300-500 for vet dungeons but tbh if I see a rotation going on I am content, if I see people lightning staff heavy attacking a boss its an insta kick even max cp

Fawn4287

Fawn4287 wrote: »

160 for normal 300-500 for vet dungeons but tbh if I see a rotation going on I am content, if I see people lightning staff heavy attacking a boss its an insta kick even max cp

*160 vanilla 300-500 for DLC is what I meant

Algorax

Tigerseye wrote: »

I have been in a couple of groups like that, lately.

In one, the tank wanted to kick the sub 160CP player, even though the group's average CP was more than high enough to complete the dungeon.

I was over 1200CP, for example and healer was very good at their job.

Tank was saying it was a "hard dungeon" - it wasn't, it was a moderate one.

Tank initiated a kick, I declined, tank left, new tank joined and we completed the last boss on hm, first time, no deaths.

Told tank via whisper and he just bragged he was on his second dungeon, now.

Well, of course he would be, if he is a tank, kicks anyone low CP and can get an instant queue...

But, the point is, if we did it first time, without him, we could presumably have done it even quicker if he hadn't left.

Some people are just utterly selfish and just don't want anything that slows them down, at all.

The only selfish here are those who stubbornly que without the requirements: they use your time and effors as they please with no regards for your situation nor the well being of the whole party. They either do it out of unawearness of how the game work like the player who submitted the OP (which is not a crime per se) or they do it out of malicious, exploiting intents.
I can simpathize with players with not enough time to afford to cooperate with disfunctional teams, some of us have full time jobs, families, etc and still we grinded our way up to the top, with patience and dedication.

Asardes

Well people run dungeons and trials for gear. If you're not at CP160 your drops are worthless to them. Also your contribution to the group will be very low, since it's unlikely you have good gear at your level. CP10-100 takes a few hours, and to CP160 maybe a day or more so it's a very short window. This means that it's not worth gearing for it and most players don't. Just stick to normal dungeons till you're CP160-200 or so.

Ratinira

Tigerseye wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Keep trying. Most groups aren’t that toxic, you probably just had some bad luck. It won’t take long to get to 160 CP.

You don't join vet runs at cp 50. That was not toxicity: it was plain good sense.

People should use common sense - if everyone else's CP is very high and it isn't a very hard dungeon, one low CP player won't normally matter.

It's the average CP that matters, not just one person's.

Well, the post said "Everytime when i do the 1st boss they kick me". So that means that there were problems with bosses. And if the team struggles with the first boss no surprise they are getting rid of the most useless team member. Because the first boss is the easiest one. Who wants to spend hour doing HM in 3 heads instead of 4.

Raisin

I agree with the overall consensus seen in the thread, but I wanted to add that it's still good you want to run vet dungeons and do well! You trusted that the game would allow you queue for difficulty levels that are appropriate for you, and it's bad luck that it happens that you may not have been in the right position to do this with a PUG. You still didn't do anything wrong, and I think it's important to understand that getting to cp160 first is just advice that'll make things run much smoother for you and everybody else.
Personally, I also think you're probably getting matched with the wrong people who may not be toxic, but may lack the ability to make up for what's missing. I've been in vet dungeon PUGs (or groups with one tank) with people below CP160, including tanks, and generally we don't kick them unless the dungeon cannot be cleared with them. That is very rarely the case, as people can be carried, so it's a rare occurrence. It seems to me like you're probably getting matched with people who are lacking themselves, and really rely on more equal contribution from you. It happens, unfortunately, but getting your gear all sorted out will be a big step forward.

lolo_01b16_ESO

I'm doing random vets quite regularly and I haven't seen a kick attempt just because of low cp for a long time. Are you sure that it's not some other issue?
My personal reasons to kick players are:
- bad behaviour in group chat
- obviously not knowing fight mechanics and not telling anyone that you don't know them
- not enough dps to beat a dps check
- not taunting a boss that has to be taunted

Magdalina

Algorax wrote: »

A1xe wrote: »

Hi guys, why everyone thinks you need high CP for Veteran Dungeon? I cant do anything right now. Everytime when i do the 1st boss they kick me w/o reason (i think its because my low cp or dps) now i have 50 cp and at leats 40 cp items and some lvl 50 but i cant get more good items for this reason. Its super annoying. What i can do? Just make random normal?

I think that someone's opinion is irrelevant in this case. Truth is that several, if not all vet dugeons, cannot be completed if the group is not fitting the challenge.

Let's be honest here, in most, if not all, non-dlc vets (and he couldn't have queued for dlc ones until 300 CP) you have to try pretty hard to fail these days. I mean it's possible but to achieve that, all of the group members would have to be really, really bad/absolutely inexperienced.

Of course, it's no one's obligation to carry but I find silent kicking kinda rude when not absolutely necessary - and in non dlc vets it rarely is.

holden_caulfield

Elitism is always bad.
But pls be realistic. If u have 302 cp, your gear is a random ensemble of sets, you don't know any mechs and are in a dlc dungeon pls ask politely to be carried and to be taught what to do.
Just trying because in the end is a game is a waste of time for all involved

That said I have seen 300 cper playing way better than some 1000+ cper. But it is a rare event. The norm are low cper that just jump everywhere using many pvp skills doing sub 10k dps. They play like they had played all the previous single player elder scrolls

Algorax

Magdalina wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

A1xe wrote: »

Hi guys, why everyone thinks you need high CP for Veteran Dungeon? I cant do anything right now. Everytime when i do the 1st boss they kick me w/o reason (i think its because my low cp or dps) now i have 50 cp and at leats 40 cp items and some lvl 50 but i cant get more good items for this reason. Its super annoying. What i can do? Just make random normal?

I think that someone's opinion is irrelevant in this case. Truth is that several, if not all vet dugeons, cannot be completed if the group is not fitting the challenge.

Let's be honest here, in most, if not all, non-dlc vets (and he couldn't have queued for dlc ones until 300 CP) you have to try pretty hard to fail these days. I mean it's possible but to achieve that, all of the group members would have to be really, really bad/absolutely inexperienced.

Of course, it's no one's obligation to carry but I find silent kicking kinda rude when not absolutely necessary - and in non dlc vets it rarely is.

Not this time apparently...

Tigerseye

Algorax wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

I have been in a couple of groups like that, lately.

In one, the tank wanted to kick the sub 160CP player, even though the group's average CP was more than high enough to complete the dungeon.

I was over 1200CP, for example and healer was very good at their job.

Tank was saying it was a "hard dungeon" - it wasn't, it was a moderate one.

Tank initiated a kick, I declined, tank left, new tank joined and we completed the last boss on hm, first time, no deaths.

Told tank via whisper and he just bragged he was on his second dungeon, now.

Well, of course he would be, if he is a tank, kicks anyone low CP and can get an instant queue...

But, the point is, if we did it first time, without him, we could presumably have done it even quicker if he hadn't left.

Some people are just utterly selfish and just don't want anything that slows them down, at all.

The only selfish here are those who stubbornly que without the requirements: they use your time and effors as they please with no regards for your situation nor the well being of the whole party. They either do it out of unawearness of how the game work like the player who submitted the OP (which is not a crime per se) or they do it out of malicious, exploiting intents.
I can simpathize with players with not enough time to afford to cooperate with disfunctional teams, some of us have full time jobs, families, etc and still we grinded our way up to the top, with patience and dedication.

If they're unaware they're not being selfish.

My point is, that if the rest of the group exceeds the requirements, especially by a long way, it really is a choice (and a selfish one), at that point, to not help out another player.

If it's marginal and is going to mean lots of wipes, then fair enough, but if it's only going to take 30 secs more than it otherwise would have done, it is ridiculous to initiate a kick and then have to restart with another group.

Especially as doing that takes longer than just getting the dungeon done.

Players that do that are making their decisions based purely on some kind of misguided principle, that they don't want to help people who they deem unready, rather than being pragmatic about time.

If these people have a problem with low CP players being able to queue, they should take it up with ZOS, rather than holding the group up, unecessarily, with kick votes and divaesque behaviour.

ghastley

[quote="adilazimdegilx;c-6886588"
Also since you can trade your dungeon items with your group members you are also lowering their chance to complete their sets.[/quote]
This is why they don't want you. You'd collect low-level items they don't want to trade for.

SolidusPrime

Find a group dedicated to doing dungeons. They will be far more patient and helpful.

agegarton

A1xe wrote: »

Hi guys, why everyone thinks you need high CP for Veteran Dungeon? I cant do anything right now. Everytime when i do the 1st boss they kick me w/o reason (i think its because my low cp or dps) now i have 50 cp and at leats 40 cp items and some lvl 50 but i cant get more good items for this reason. Its super annoying. What i can do? Just make random normal?

1. You might want to level to CP160 (the current gear cap) before you settle on a final build otherwise you will probably want to farm gear all over again.

2. This doesn't mean you can't run Vet content now.

3. Find a good guild that is supportive of players who haven't met the CP cap. There are loads out there. The community is so strong in this game - don't let a few tryhards ruin the experience for you!


If you're on PC/EU and you're also into trade, look me up (@agelonestar) - my guild is primarily a trade guild, but we run managed trial groups and there's always someone running a dungeon. Mostly, we don't care what level you are

McGordon

They are kicking u out for your own good. under 160CP I dont see a point to be in veteran dung. Have never kicked out anyone with low DPS, because everyone is learning, but under 160cp vet dung is not your place, monster helms u gonna get will be trashable, gear u will get will be trashable.
So dont wast your own time, get 160cp and run it all day all night.

vgabor

As others said, below cp160 it's not worth to go into vet dungeons. Whatever you find will be worthless for you in few hours/days, and also you cannot trade gear and monster helm with your group since all you find is below cp160.

Do yourself a favour and stick to normal dungeons until you reach cp160. My advice is for you to do all the dungeon quests in normal until you reach cp160, they give very good xp (especially if you use those xp scrolls from daily login rewards) and help you level up fast and also you get a skill point which comes very handy as well.

WastedJoker

Things that don't help:

1. There are a LOT of dungeons and it is quite silly to expect everyone to know the mechanics of each boss.
2. At the start of dungeons experienced players often just set off at a sprint so even if someone wanted to take a quick minute to read the summary of a boss/dungeon they get left behind and or even kicked for seeming inactive.
3. Tanks have the privilege of quicker queue times and so often it feels like they're less tolerant of inexperienced players; they can just ditch a problematic group and be right back at it quicker than other classes.
4. Related to point 3 is the prevalence of fake tanking; not normally an issue if the dungeon is a relatively easy one or people are prepared to switch setups for more self-heals/dodging.
5. Treating the PUG group like a custom group; it's literally a lottery so be prepared to either explain the mechanics or have the dungeon take a bit longer than you'd prefer to complete.

Things that help:

1. Declare that you're unsure about the dungeon/specific boss right at the start or just before boss is engaged (this can be hard due to point 2 above)
2. If you're on PC you could try using the following addon: https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info2362-XynodesAllAboutMechanics.html#info which gives you an overview of each boss or all bosses in a dungeon
3. If you're lacking confidence or feel like you're just not quite there yet then ask guildies for a run through with you. They're more likely to be patient and will very likely give you some great tips
4. Use alcasthq/xynodes website for tips on getting your gear to a decent state as well as learning which foods/rotations are good for you.
5. Another big tip is declare at the start of a dungeon if you're looking for a particular piece of gear and which trait you'd like. I always try to be generous if someone asks for a specific item and I don't need it.

And always remember to pay it forward; if you got help as a newbie then remember how good that felt. Pass your experience down and that way we lift everyone up with us.

Everest_Lionheart

Fawn4287 wrote: »

160 for normal 300-500 for vet dungeons but tbh if I see a rotation going on I am content, if I see people lightning staff heavy attacking a boss its an insta kick even max cp

There is a phase on the second boss of depths of Malatar where you have the inside AOE. I pugged it the other night and it was funny to see all 4 players step back and you see 4 beams from everyone’s lightning staff all hitting the boss at the same time. We all had a laugh at that one. We managed to hack our way through it all just fine in an efficient manner. I was low CP of the group at 490. Been getting a lot of solid PUGS lately. Maybe because I play late night and run across more hardcore players that know what they are doing.

DigitalHype

Tigerseye wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

While I agree that you should get to cp160 and then queue, for most dungeons I wouldn't care.

The DLC ones and one or two base games one would be hard with a low cp, but most are stupidly easily anyway so I wouldn't care.

But get to 160. It won't take long.

This.

Although, I would add that it is the game's fault if it allows people, who aren't yet ready in terms of CP, to queue.

It is not the fault of the player.

It's also not the fault of the party for using the game's built in kick function if they so desire not to carry someone, or feel it can' t be completed with the liability. That is one of the reason it exists.

Xebov

A1xe wrote: »

What i can do? Just make random normal?

You can level to CP160 and gather gear. Except for monster sets the dungeons drop the exact same gear.

The problem is this: The game allows you to enter veteran dungeons, but every experienced player knows that players below CP160 are in most cases dead meat. They dont have the damage or the survivability required to beat this mode. Thats why they get kicked frequently because noone wants to take 1hour for a 15min dungeon just to carry someone through.

Xebov

WastedJoker wrote: »

There are a LOT of dungeons and it is quite silly to expect everyone to know the mechanics of each boss.

As a tank player i have to know the majority of them because i would get frequently one hitted left and right if i didnt. Most DDs are just to lazy to learn them because most mechanics dont apply to them.

WastedJoker wrote: »

Tanks have the privilege of quicker queue times and so often it feels like they're less tolerant of inexperienced players; they can just ditch a problematic group and be right back at it quicker than other classes.

As a tank im less tolerant towards players that lack the damage and survivability for the mode they want to do. It doesnt matter how experienced they are. I dont deal any damage, so i cant do anything about it. If my group is bad i have to suffer, so of course i just leave the groups. I spend time towards improving my character and i can expect the same from others. This also includes new players as there are plenty of sources to educate themselves on builds and move on.

Xebov

Tigerseye wrote: »

People should use common sense - if everyone else's CP is very high and it isn't a very hard dungeon, one low CP player won't normally matter.

It's the average CP that matters, not just one person's.

Thats just wrong. I frequently see groups of players that are CP400 or even CP810 and they deal exactly zero damage. High CP means nothing. Everyone will reach max CP sooner or later. Many players just dont care to make propper builds. For you its relatively easy as you deal damage and are high CP. Put yourself in a Tanks position. I can be happy if a Pledge group deals more than 20k total DPS and thats already with me heavily buffing and debuffing.