New Moon Acolyte nerf

xaraan

puupaa wrote: »

I just tested New Moon Acolyte vs Spriggan's Thorns on my current setup on Live servers, and Spriggan actually does a tiny bit more damage but NMA gives ~5% better heals. So yea, I don't understand why NMA is getting nerfed. Really smells like too many people are using it therefore we are nerfing it nerf.

eh, in pvp on some builds you can just drop NMA completely, run innate axiom for same buff b/c you dont use non class abilities and have zero penalty

Sleep724

Alidel wrote: »

Set was overperforming, so not surprised at all. Besides losing 80 spd/wpd isn't that much.

Seemed to be performing just fine. Wpd wasn't as high as fury but higher than hundings with a tradeoff. Its not the players fault Zos didnt proivde other viable sets for solo and small group. Other sets needed to be buffed, which they finally were. But why the hammer nerf instead of just minor adjustments is beyond me.

ItsJustHashtag

These devs literally change the meta each patch. That’s their goal and it’s completely dumb.

WrathOfInnos

mav1234 wrote: »

It is very easy to negate NMA's cost increase. It was very clearly overperforming, and we have been saying so for some time. However, given all the OTHER changes to set this one doesn't make a ton of sense now. It would have made sense patches ago...

How do you negate the cost increase without giving up damage somewhere else?

jaws343

mav1234 wrote: »

It is very easy to negate NMA's cost increase. It was very clearly overperforming, and we have been saying so for some time. However, given all the OTHER changes to set this one doesn't make a ton of sense now. It would have made sense patches ago...

But that's thing thing right? You can negate the cost increase. Which means you specifically had to either build for that or eat the cost increase. You either sacrifice damage for sustain or sustain for damage. Most group builds sacrificed sustain for damage, but they were going to do this anyways. The problem isn't the 5% being too weak, the problem is group buffs pretty much negate any personal build choices being necessary for sustain.

From a solo perspective, these group buffs do not exist, so further lowering the power of a set you already had to build around to make worthwhile to run, is pretty much killing the sets usefulness. Why would I ever run this set, in dungeons, trials, or solo, or even in PVP, again when I can get more from other sets without the drawback.

Merciful17

Running law of julianos with spell dmg gylphs will now deal more dmg for my build and remove the annoying 5% cost. Tbh the 5% cost increase for 100 spell dmg over Julianos is just not worth it. Rip new moon.

Ratzkifal

If only they had gone in the opposite direction with this and just boosted the cost increase to be more penalizing. It's not just group settings that can alleviate this, it's also sustain races that want to catch up to those that lack sustain. If an Orc can sustain NMA just fine a Bosmer being able to sustain NMA better will not deal more damage. But if an Orc can't sustain NMA while a Bosmer can, then the gap between them closes.

Now they just ruined the set for everyone.

susmitds

Stat-density wise, it is not exactly the highest anyways, especially compared to some sets like Titanborn in PvP or the newly buffed Advancing Yokeda.

dcam86b14_ESO

This is part of the problem with all the sets. ZOS keeps releasing newer sets every dlc / chapter and promotes people to farm them and then nerf. One solution would be to let older sets be upgraded with better stats, kind of like a spell crafting but for armour. Of course, certain mats/criteria would have to be met.
idk just a suggestion.

Skjaldbjorn

Ratzkifal wrote: »

If only they had gone in the opposite direction with this and just boosted the cost increase to be more penalizing. It's not just group settings that can alleviate this, it's also sustain races that want to catch up to those that lack sustain. If an Orc can sustain NMA just fine a Bosmer being able to sustain NMA better will not deal more damage. But if an Orc can't sustain NMA while a Bosmer can, then the gap between them closes.

Now they just ruined the set for everyone.

I actually agree with this fundamentally. We need to be using more changes to expand racial viability rather than just continuously saying "Stam = Orc, Mag = High Elf". It's obnoxious.

Vaoh

Horrible change for small scale PvP and all forms of PvE

I only really PvE these days but I‘ve rarely bothered slotting NMA this patch. What the heck is this nerf for?? Same thing with False God, they’re taking stats off of sets for no reason.

Sustain is already worse next patch and Acuity was made more appealing anyway....

Dracane

xaraan wrote: »

This change is uncalled for.

This gear is not run in most groups outside of the short trash fights, most players will constantly change builds to make use of it and drop it due to the sustain issues. I'm sure a few players live with it, but for the most part, it's not a wide spread problem even in groups, not to mention ignoring the fact that not everyone that plays this game is 'in a group'.

Seems odd that "oh, this set is being used, let's make it useless so it's not anymore" is the method of balance for this game. And frankly, any set that isn't a proc should not be getting looked at for nerfs right now.

Stat sets are being nerfed left and right; leaving people with few reasons to not use proc sets to deliver the damage for them.
Aren't stat sets already inferior to proc sets in pvp?

We have sets that give 400 spell or weapon damage as their 5th piece, just like New Moons will now. And while they only buff certain damage types, they do not come with further detriments. New Moons comes with a very significant cost penalty and 481 damage was totally justified as a result.

Also, oversustaining is not a problem anywhere. Neither in pve nor pvp do people complain "Oh, I can sustain forever." Quite the contrary. People who use New Moons always have 5% more cost, no matter what sets group members wear. These sets raise it to a normal level, yet still not the same.

Lortie

I genuinely don't understand the reasoning behind this heavy nerf to NMA. VERY few if any players actually used NMA in pve and in longer fights even without NMA sustain is an issue. NMA was a pvp set plain and simple, and in pvp any set is easily sustained in groups with plenty of synergies. Hell, you could run stage-4 vamp with NMA (not that you should) in pvp with a decent sized group and have zero sustain issues because of synergies. Arguing it's easy to sustain in groups with synergies in pvp is ludicrous because anything is.

At the new weapon damage value this simply wont be worth it for pvp, so it will fall into the box of sets labeled "Stuff No One Uses". At only 400 weapon damage the cost increase doesn't justify the minor gains compared to something like 7th legion or even Hundings/Dragonguard. And falls even further behind when you compare it to sets like Briar or Truth. Briar, a set that is already top-tier in pve will become top-tier in every aspect of the game. So instead of encouraging diversity, their pushing people to use the same sets for every avenue of the game.

So in conclusion this is a over-nerf for a questionable justification. The only other reason I can think of for this change is to push people into using proc sets, with the recent aggressive introduction of new VERY strong (maybe a bit too strong) proc sets. But if these changes continue; the nerf of active game-play and the buff to passive game-play (procs), player engagement will suffer. Active game-play should always be more effective than passive game-play IMO, and in the proc meta your kill potential with one skill press has never been higher.

If you wanted a more reasonable nerf I would suggest; Reducing the Weapon damage from 481 to 450 and the Increased cost from +5% to +6%.

Kadoin

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

kylermacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Do people wear NMA in trials and stuff? I figured trial gear would perform better, so nerfing this based on those activities seems pretty short sighted

Yeah, it's really popular on stam chars from what I've seen- several stamplars in my groups run NMA + Deadly Strike.

If the issue is that the cost increase is easy to overcome, why not just increase that vs. nerfing the damage? What they've done now effectively kills the set.

I don't know, the set is already pretty unsuable on a hybrid with the current cost increase. Wasn't the entire set's purpose for hybrids in the first place? Except it happened to power up pure builds more...?

Stamblade

Hopefully they roll this back, if not I'd really appreciate my chromium platings back...I'm a solo player in cyro and this is absolutely ridiculous reasoning.

Lortie

Stamblade wrote: »

Hopefully they roll this back, if not I'd really appreciate my chromium platings back...I'm a solo player in cyro and this is absolutely ridiculous reasoning.

I couldn't agree more.

Eldemar_Kron

"This was done to make up for the fact that the resource cost increase penalty can be easily alleviated in group settings by having allies supply you with sets or synergies."

... no matter it's used mostly in PvP where no one gives you synergies.
Plus i don't remember mediocre mana raids using NMA - everyone is fine in MS+(p)FGD.
And for preventing arguments about stamina raids - they are dead. It's not Catland 5.x.x patch. So if ZOS wanted prevent stamraids take benefit from NMA... well, they won't - they are dead. Tnx 2 our beloved combat team)

Shantu

Nerf fatigue is real. I can hardly work up enough energy to care anymore. This team is going to do whatever they want for whatever reasons they want. Player input is nothing more than traffic noise. At least that communication is clear.

Joy_Division

Sleep724 wrote: »

New Moon Acolyte: Reduced the Weapon and Spell Damage granted from this set’s 5 piece bonus to 401, down from 481. This was done to make up for the fact that the resource cost increase penalty can be easily alleviated in group settings by having allies supply you with sets or synergies.

Why nerf this because of what a group does? Small groups and solo players weren’t getting any benefit from other sets or synergies. It really seems to just be pushing more players to use proc sets. Which they will only end up being nerfed again the next patch because of complaints anyway.

Probably because many solo specs also used this set and ZOS should have just said it's obviously too good.

StarOfElyon

I understand that a lot of people dislike this change. I know I do. But it'll still be used. For hybrid characters, this set is still best (in my opinion) because it gives additional penetration which is otherwise lost by wearing armor of the wrong weight. I think the cost increase looks ridiculously high now though - especially for my vampire hybrid.

Deathlord92

I hope they listen and don’t nerf nma I actually love this set

mzprx

i am using NMA on my solo/small group PvP stamNB. and i, too, find their reasoning utterly ridiculous. when NMA came out it instantly became the best craftable set in the game, outperforming most dungeon/trial sets and i did fear the inevitable nerf. i mean, you can't have a craftable set that is better than a DLC dungeon set, can you? who'd buy and farm those DLC dungeons if you could craft something better or comparable? it's a money grab, that's all it is..

Aedrion

BigBragg wrote: »

Are the natch potes made of cake?

[snip] ...but that's not cake.

[edited for bashing]

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

'... can be easily alleviated in group settings by having allies supply you with sets or synergies.'

Meanwhile as someone that largely solos and does battlegrounds.

Kittytravel

For a set that was largely used in BG's/Solo play for short fights where the cost increase wasn't the most important this change seems really odd with the logic behind it; it'd make more sense (if they wanted to continue this anti-group use route) to raise the 5% to 8% and maintain it's current damage like Molag Kena.

It keeps it's same value for solo play/pvp while losing it's value in sustained fights even further with the increased cost to abilities and damage to sustain. Rapid Strikes costing 2538 the current NMA would make it cost an extra 126 per cast, but at 8% would go up to an extra 203. Tacking on an extra 80 magicka/stam cost to every skill would be enough to kill off the set for group play as the sustain loss just wouldn't be worth the hassle afaik.

notyuu

the correct thing to do would have been to make the cost increase 9% and leave the damage as it was...

as it stands now there is literally no point in running the set given all of the avaiable options and changes coming to old sets.

Davadin

they should at the very least change the craft requirement from knowing 9 traits to 7, or 6, or even 5.

sentientomega

I wish they would not destroy any reason to have crafters, as they seem to be doing here. 80 doesn't like a huge loss, but you can bet this is only the beginning. I can accept that drops will always be more powerful than crafted sets, so that people will farm them, but please don't make crafted sets useless.

zvavi

New moon acolyte - this change baffles me. And the reason for the nerf even more. And there are three main reasons for that:
1. It will be trash tier for magicka in trials (and coordinated dungeons). Now that alkosh is Uber buffed the penetration tooltip is useless. Making it effectively a 5 piece that lacks both power because of a "missing" trait, but also has a drawback, making it trash.
2. let's do some math comparing other crafter sets. Namely, julianos, and seducer. So 10% ability cost, that scales badly with other sources, is worth 300 spell power. While 5% increase somehow is worth 101 spell power. I mean I understand it somehow hit your new standard of Magnus' gift 15% chance of negate cost, but not only did you not up seducer to the same "standard", you also forget that sets with condition on them should be stronger that the equivalent gain. If they are exactly worth the gain, they are trash.
3. Now let's talk about the reason for the nerf, being able to "negate" the cost increase in trial environment. Putting aside that it is good that healers and tanks have various ways to provide support to the dds. raid teams run blood for blood because sustain was that bad. People run perfected false god when they don't run b4b in most of the games content, because sustain is that bad. And now you are telling me that the only set that you can chose to run if your sustain is somehow good (lol) is getting nerfed. Sets should be a choice, of what is better to run when. As the change is made, even in it's "optimal" scenario, it is trash. It will not be a choice anymore. (Especially the upcoming changes to things like war maiden).

Mayrael

This change is made only to push for proc sets, it has nothing to do with actual balance. Hmm... Let me thing what should I choose? 400 weap/spell damage with cost increase on all skills or free 20-30k damage? Hmmm...