RIP Olorime

5cript

I find buffing SPC to be a good thing.
Nerfing Olorime so its now potentially worse than SPC is a headscratcher.
I think overhealing isn't too difficult to achieve.

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YandereGirlfriend

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

They probably do it because it's easier to farm a dungeon or key fragments than olorime 🤔

Still, it's a bad bad day decision 😪

That's super debatable.

IMO, farming nCR+0 to get a functioning set is easier (and faster) than farming nWGT.

Hanokihs

Personally, I'm glad a dungeon set may actually be able to legit compete with trial gear, if not be better than it. I get people want better rewards for harder content, but it makes little sense to put the strongest gear in what's already the apex of endgame. If you're capable of successfully running trials to get it, why would you honestly need it?

I've thought for ages that the devs should be helping more people to get to that level, rather than rewarding people who are already there and beyond. I think it's a step in the right direction, and I hope to see many more of them in the future. "Raise the floor, maintain the ceiling," to gnaw on that bone of tired terminology.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

They probably do it because it's easier to farm a dungeon or key fragments than olorime 🤔

Still, it's a bad bad day decision 😪

That's super debatable.

IMO, farming nCR+0 to get a functioning set is easier (and faster) than farming nWGT.

If you have enough key fragments (or are willing to buy them) you can bypass the grind altogether and just open the chest over and over again. It's been a while, but I think there's one you can get to without even fighting a single mob? Or maybe that's IPC. Or both, heck if I remember.

VaxtinTheWolf

Someone said welcome back SPC. That's weird since it never left my NB healer, not that I play much anymore. It was more about me not being confident to do trials so at least for SPC, it's a pretty interesting adjustment. The caps seems a bit much to me though.

peacenote

jescerwin wrote: »

Part of the reason it was acceptable for Olorime to last 30 seconds, was because it required people to walk into a physical circle. In raid situations where all of the DDs can't be stacked on one another, Olorime's duration permitted cycled placement so each DD could get the buff... But nerfing the duration of Olorime significantly reduces it's effectiveness in raid situations. Olorime required coordination, SPC just required a healer in the set. This change is mostly disappointing because the set that required some coordination and planning by the support in the set, is now essentially worse than the set that requires a healer to just spam heals.

Agree with this.

For people cheering the SPC buff, how quickly we forget the rejoicing that occurred when SPC was no longer BIS and didn't "encourage" over-healing. So tired of the hate (in game and on forums) from uninformed folks who say healers spam heals and don't require any skill. Extremely disappointed that this change plays into that unfair and untrue picture of healers which is already painted too often. I too fail to see how SPC won't be better than Olo if these changes go live as described.

I'd be fine with a buff to SPC that makes it more viable in trials, but it shouldn't be the best option. And frankly a set from 2015 seems quite suitable for the "not BIS but helpful in PUGs" pile. That's a much better place to be than some of the absolute garbage sets that are never used and could be re-tooled for some variety.

Given the myriad of set changes and that this is only cycle 1, AND that I am an armchair theory crafter at best, it may be too soon to conclude this. However. My skim through these patch notes give me the initial impression that healers have gotten the shaft, so far:

• BIS strategic set being nerfed
• Old, old, old set being buffed (NOT exciting to pursue or re-use)
• No new viable set (5 piece or monster) to pursue
• Multiple other healing sets nerfed (Hollowfang & Sanctuary. And Combat Physician?? And Gossamer? And Roaring Opportunist, already?)
• Prayer Shawl also changed to encourage over-healing
• The Ritual Mundus stone nerfed

I'll let the number crunchers tell me if the Worm change is also a nerf. Maybe the divines change is meant to make up for some of this?

Anyway, I know some of these changes won't matter, and Olorime is the story here, but just a theme I noticed. Not feeling the love for healers this round.

Dracane

Spell Power Cure was always superior in my eyes. I was laughed at and kicked for wanting to use it in progression runs. Nobody saw its potential. They demanded Olorime even though it had nothing going for it to begin with really. Forcing members to seek out a rune never sat right with me.

And now behooold: The price of failure! They shall beg for my golden Spell Power Cure set!
This victory is highly personal and marks the end of long trauma and rejection.

Calypso589

Hanokihs wrote: »

Personally, I'm glad a dungeon set may actually be able to legit compete with trial gear, if not be better than it. I get people want better rewards for harder content, but it makes little sense to put the strongest gear in what's already the apex of endgam.

Normal cloudrest +0 is NOT the apex of endgame at all.

No normal Trial is, frankly.

You do normal trials, get the gear, THEN progress to vet and get that gear (if there's perfected versions). THEN you progress into veteran hardmode.

Within the discussion of Cloudrest, Veteran +3 is the apex.

But not normal. Not by a longshot.

Calypso589

Dracane wrote: »

Spell Power Cure was always superior in my eyes. I was laughed at and kicked for wanting to use it in progression runs. Nobody saw its potential. They demanded Olorime even though it had nothing going for it to begin with really. Forcing members to seek out a rune never sat right with me.

And now behooold: The price of failure! They shall beg for my golden Spell Power Cure set!
This victory is highly personal and marks the end of long trauma and rejection.

On live currently, there is no situation where SPC is better than Olorime. Olorime is guaranteed 30 seconds of Major Force for stepping into an easy to see circle on the ground just once and there basically was no cooldown on it since you can just place them with a blockade.

SPC had a proc chance and you had to spam the hell out of a heal to give it to everyone. Not good.

In Trials where it really mattered (vets and vet hardmodes) the raid should've been stacked already and the healer able to place the rune no problem.

Honestly on live if people weren't getting the buff then it was a L2P issue cuz the set itself was god tier.

.........but not anymore. lol

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

iam sorry but olo will still be used by most healers, most of them dont over heal and it will mean going full healer

Aznarb

It's a good change.

Olo was way to powerful for how easy to use it was.
1 Healer with Olo could keep a 100% uptime on M.Courage even on a split group, that just braindead.
Now you'll have to think better where to place it and on who and in some Raid probably 2 people would use it.

SPC is not gonna replace it, it just a viable alternative and that good.
You can't always overheal in some burst phase so SPC won't shine here.

Olo is not dead at all, just requiert more skill to use.
And have to be put on 2 heal.
Same if you wanna use SPC, with 10sec duration + overheal required, you'll need another heal wear it (or olo) for a better consistency.

Svenja

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

iam sorry but olo will still be used by most healers, most of them dont over heal and it will mean going full healer

What?
When i started running trials, SPC was the go to healer set both healers needed to wear (because it only affected 6 people, so for a full trial group you needed both healers with it.).
"Most healers don't overheal" is definitely not the case in this game, I guarantee you that. We had pretty good uptimes of spell power cure even on bosses as the Archcustodian in vHoF, and the group gets constant damage from the whirring blades there. We even overhealed and proc'd SPC easily there. And that was 3 years ago, when vHoF was new and the fights considerably longer than nowadays, and we didn't have as much CP and worse sets.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

I get why they buffed SPC, but the nerf to Olo is just making the set dead. Keep Olo as is and it will make both sets useful.

the1andonlyskwex

It's sad that healers are essentially required to provide Major Courage and that the only way to get it is from one of two sets that have both been in the game for years.

If you ask me, shifting the meta back to SPC doesn't go nearly far enough. Both should have been nerfed into the ground (or superceded by something new and different).

I say this as a healer who would like a reason to farm something new and different.

peacenote

Aznarb wrote: »

It's a good change.

Olo was way to powerful for how easy to use it was.
1 Healer with Olo could keep a 100% uptime on M.Courage even on a split group, that just braindead.
Now you'll have to think better where to place it and on who and in some Raid probably 2 people would use it.

SPC is not gonna replace it, it just a viable alternative and that good.
You can't always overheal in some burst phase so SPC won't shine here.

Olo is not dead at all, just requiert more skill to use.
And have to be put on 2 heal.
Same if you wanna use SPC, with 10sec duration + overheal required, you'll need another heal wear it (or olo) for a better consistency.

I'm not going to debate the too powerful thing (though I don't agree) but I WILL outright disagree with you that this will require more "skill." If it won't be possible for one healer to keep up Olo (which in some fights was a fun challenge) it will be extremely boring and annoying at the same time. If two healers bring SPC ...YAWN... if two healers bring Olo... that's coordinating buff drop placements... YUCK. And in both cases it makes the healing role less versatile as that's one less set between the two roles that we can provide the group. That's not good for anyone.

Aznarb

peacenote wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

It's a good change.

Olo was way to powerful for how easy to use it was.
1 Healer with Olo could keep a 100% uptime on M.Courage even on a split group, that just braindead.
Now you'll have to think better where to place it and on who and in some Raid probably 2 people would use it.

SPC is not gonna replace it, it just a viable alternative and that good.
You can't always overheal in some burst phase so SPC won't shine here.

Olo is not dead at all, just requiert more skill to use.
And have to be put on 2 heal.
Same if you wanna use SPC, with 10sec duration + overheal required, you'll need another heal wear it (or olo) for a better consistency.

I'm not going to debate the too powerful thing (though I don't agree) but I WILL outright disagree with you that this will require more "skill." If it won't be possible for one healer to keep up Olo (which in some fights was a fun challenge) it will be extremely boring and annoying at the same time. If two healers bring SPC ...YAWN... if two healers bring Olo... that's coordinating buff drop placements... YUCK. And in both cases it makes the healing role less versatile as that's one less set between the two roles that we can provide the group. That's not good for anyone.

You contradict yourself.
Olo was already "YAWN" any decent healer don't have problem to keep 99%+ uptime on this buff without even trying.
That how easy it is actually.
Same for the 30sec duration, even if you're bad, you could have 2 time a back up.

How, in the hell, is this "skilled" ?

Now you've only 1 chance.
And coordinated with the other healer is "YUCK" ?
No dude, that is what we call "skill".

SPC is gonna be the same, in many burst phase all your team is gonna lose HP overtime making the SPC proc far less consistent in a moment where you NEED the damage buff.

If you want SPC to outshine you'll have to use more healing skill or healing modifier and that will just be another dps loose for less uptime on other support set like MK/Z'en/Roar/Ele Cata etc..

Olo was a lazy and easy set providing one of the most powerful buff in the game at 100% uptime at no cost and no effort.
Now it's gonna be harder to reach the 100% uptime and it's not a bad thing.

Both set will be good depending of the encounter, that all.

ItsJustHashtag

Jaimeh wrote: »

Most healers already proc this everywhere but the stack, the duration carried the uptimes. At least it will bring back SPC which is easier to get.

And this is why it got changed the way it did.

Olupajmibanan

I love how people in this thread think that only 6 players will receive Major Courage from Olorime.

When 12 people stand in Olorime, the first tick will apply Major Courage to 6 people and the second to other 6. No overwriting will happen because game prioritizes targets that do not have the buff already.

jescerwin

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

I love how people in this thread think that only 6 players will receive Major Courage from Olorime.

When 12 people stand in Olorime, the first tick will apply Major Courage to 6 people and the second to other 6. No overwriting will happen because game prioritizes targets that do not have the buff already.

That's how we would like the buffs to work, unfortunately, in raid situations, that is not true. The buffs in the game do not target whomever does not have it currently. If you've every tried to get combat prayer to apply the minor berserk buff to a group, it will sometimes continuously proc on the same person, while never applying to other people directly in front of you. You could argue that combat prayer prioritizes the heal, and gives the buff only to people who need healing, but the buff remains problematic even when people aren't taking damage.

I personally have no faith that major courage will only apply to people who do not currently have it. Especially if you use a heal to proc it. Since the buff will typically associate with the heal and prioritize whomever needs healing.

carlos424

Azorean wrote: »

wastelandexplorer1 wrote: »

Not so much of a rip just gotta predict more less lee way still perfect set for almost anytlhing and if not spellpower can be a place holder

How?
SCP just became better, just put an HS and you give Major Courage to all raid is not that hard to overheal someone. Put an HS with Olorime you put MC on 6 people.

Also even if it is 6 per tick, you still need to be on the circle to receive the buff. Since is RNG can give the buff always to the same 6 players.

SCP put a blood altar and you give MC all the time \o/

Having a 6 player cap on a trial set makes 0 sense, especially when you need to stack to receive said bonus. There is no benefit at all to use atm Olorime vs SCP in trial setup

Exactly. Same benefit. Same duration. No need to find and stand in the buff zone. Why ever use olorime?

Svenja

jescerwin wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

I love how people in this thread think that only 6 players will receive Major Courage from Olorime.

When 12 people stand in Olorime, the first tick will apply Major Courage to 6 people and the second to other 6. No overwriting will happen because game prioritizes targets that do not have the buff already.

That's how we would like the buffs to work, unfortunately, in raid situations, that is not true. The buffs in the game do not target whomever does not have it currently. If you've every tried to get combat prayer to apply the minor berserk buff to a group, it will sometimes continuously proc on the same person, while never applying to other people directly in front of you. You could argue that combat prayer prioritizes the heal, and gives the buff only to people who need healing, but the buff remains problematic even when people aren't taking damage.

I personally have no faith that major courage will only apply to people who do not currently have it. Especially if you use a heal to proc it. Since the buff will typically associate with the heal and prioritize whomever needs healing.

This!
The buffs in this game are not "intelligent". The amount of times I had DDs in my group with a horrible below-20% uptime of combat prayer while others had 100%, even though they were both standing in front of me while i combat prayered like a madman...
In score runs we would always form two groups, positioned a few metres apart from each other, even on bosses where the group could stack. Just so that each healer would not hit more than 6 people with combat prayer, as it applies to the same people over and over again, and then others never get the buff at all.
There were other skills like that too. In a dungeon, Mutagen/Rapid Regeneration would always hit the same two people, the other players in the group would never get a HoT from it and that was the reason why you would get ridiculed and laughed at if you walked into a trial as a healer with that skill slotted. I think it took ZOS around 2 years to fix that skill.
The Purge from the alliance war was working like that too for some time, always hitting the same 6 people, depending on who joined the group first. For our first vHoF progression when Morrowind had just released, we would coordinate the order in which people joined the raid group and ported to the instance, to make sure the Tanks and Healers were the first ones inside and thus always receive a purge for the poison on first boss. Rather a DD dies than a tank...

So, from my raid experience, I have absolutely no faith in Olorime applying its buff intelligently to people who don't have it instead of reapplying to the same DDs over and over again while the others get nothing.
But I will be very, very pleasantly suprised and superhappy if tests from the PTS show the opposite.

peacenote

Aznarb wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

It's a good change.

Olo was way to powerful for how easy to use it was.
1 Healer with Olo could keep a 100% uptime on M.Courage even on a split group, that just braindead.
Now you'll have to think better where to place it and on who and in some Raid probably 2 people would use it.

SPC is not gonna replace it, it just a viable alternative and that good.
You can't always overheal in some burst phase so SPC won't shine here.

Olo is not dead at all, just requiert more skill to use.
And have to be put on 2 heal.
Same if you wanna use SPC, with 10sec duration + overheal required, you'll need another heal wear it (or olo) for a better consistency.

I'm not going to debate the too powerful thing (though I don't agree) but I WILL outright disagree with you that this will require more "skill." If it won't be possible for one healer to keep up Olo (which in some fights was a fun challenge) it will be extremely boring and annoying at the same time. If two healers bring SPC ...YAWN... if two healers bring Olo... that's coordinating buff drop placements... YUCK. And in both cases it makes the healing role less versatile as that's one less set between the two roles that we can provide the group. That's not good for anyone.

You contradict yourself.
Olo was already "YAWN" any decent healer don't have problem to keep 99%+ uptime on this buff without even trying.
That how easy it is actually.
Same for the 30sec duration, even if you're bad, you could have 2 time a back up.

How, in the hell, is this "skilled" ?

Now you've only 1 chance.
And coordinated with the other healer is "YUCK" ?
No dude, that is what we call "skill".

SPC is gonna be the same, in many burst phase all your team is gonna lose HP overtime making the SPC proc far less consistent in a moment where you NEED the damage buff.

If you want SPC to outshine you'll have to use more healing skill or healing modifier and that will just be another dps loose for less uptime on other support set like MK/Z'en/Roar/Ele Cata etc..

Olo was a lazy and easy set providing one of the most powerful buff in the game at 100% uptime at no cost and no effort.
Now it's gonna be harder to reach the 100% uptime and it's not a bad thing.

Both set will be good depending of the encounter, that all.

I didn't intend to contradict myself and I'm not sure I did. I personally don't think one healer keeping up Olo is yawn in harder content if you are also trying to balance providing orbs, combat prayer, ele drain, PoTL, and supplentary DPS, especially in fights where DPS is not stacked. I played with SPC for YEARS and it was so brainless.. spamming regeneration and making sure hots were on to get the buff instead of thinking about placement and timing while adding other value.

And as for coordinating with the other healer of course that can be a fun and it requires skill but it seems redundant and boring if we are now both doing something one of us could do before. Swapping horns on cool down and coordinating worn sets? Great. Constantly talking over the raid about where to drop the buff seems tiresome and too much focus on one mechanic when we have LOTS of things to coordinate.

Which is WHY everyone will probably default to two SPC setups in many cases, which is why I think this proposed change is taking us in the wrong direction from a healing perspective. It feels like we are going back to 2015.

Don't get me wrong. Olo isn't perfect and I didn't even like it when it came out. I just think healers deserve something better than a slight improvement to a set that takes us back to overhealing and nerfs to almost everything else. A new mechanic to open up MORE choices would have been better instead of reducing what we can bring and having to coordinate doing the same thing in an overly complicated and unnecessary way.

But. We will see what happens as PTS updates.

Styxius

I'm in agreement with Ozby, I think Olorime should be left as is with SPC receiving it's buff to still create a sense of progression from SPC>Olo>Perfected Olo. With SPC still having uses e.g vAS+2

IonicKai

The reason olo eclipsed SPC originally was that only one healer needed to wear it and the buff was guaranteed as long as DPS stepped in the circle. On live if you stand in olo it will refresh the buff every tick but lasting 30 seconds allowed it to be spread out through a soft stack or multi-stack situation which happens a lot in trials. SPC on live requires both healers run it and has a proc chance. Removing that proc chance and making it a guarantee while also nerfing olo takes away the choice. Overheals absolutely happen often enough to keep spc uptime and with olo's reduced uptime and target count spc will out perform on buff uptime in almost all content in the game if you have an actual healer running it. ZOS needs to leave olo changes on the drawing board because they go against why the set became a staple. SPC buff is fine as it makes olo not as mandatory (player choice is a good thing).

InqueBlawt

I want some one from ZOS to explain how SPC having a cap of 12 and Olorime having a cap per tick of 6 make them inline at all?

I'm down with SPC being the run and gun approach, where it might not fire off without overheals and Olorime being reliable in stacking situations. Right now these changes and the patch notes don't align like they were written by two different people or at completely different stages of the update process internally.

Many of these set changes don't seem to offer more choice as much as they seem to be semi-random or incomplete. Either people in charge aren't QAing the updates or there is some internal fighting going on in the direction.

Aznarb

peacenote wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

It's a good change.

Olo was way to powerful for how easy to use it was.
1 Healer with Olo could keep a 100% uptime on M.Courage even on a split group, that just braindead.
Now you'll have to think better where to place it and on who and in some Raid probably 2 people would use it.

SPC is not gonna replace it, it just a viable alternative and that good.
You can't always overheal in some burst phase so SPC won't shine here.

Olo is not dead at all, just requiert more skill to use.
And have to be put on 2 heal.
Same if you wanna use SPC, with 10sec duration + overheal required, you'll need another heal wear it (or olo) for a better consistency.

I'm not going to debate the too powerful thing (though I don't agree) but I WILL outright disagree with you that this will require more "skill." If it won't be possible for one healer to keep up Olo (which in some fights was a fun challenge) it will be extremely boring and annoying at the same time. If two healers bring SPC ...YAWN... if two healers bring Olo... that's coordinating buff drop placements... YUCK. And in both cases it makes the healing role less versatile as that's one less set between the two roles that we can provide the group. That's not good for anyone.

You contradict yourself.
Olo was already "YAWN" any decent healer don't have problem to keep 99%+ uptime on this buff without even trying.
That how easy it is actually.
Same for the 30sec duration, even if you're bad, you could have 2 time a back up.

How, in the hell, is this "skilled" ?

Now you've only 1 chance.
And coordinated with the other healer is "YUCK" ?
No dude, that is what we call "skill".

SPC is gonna be the same, in many burst phase all your team is gonna lose HP overtime making the SPC proc far less consistent in a moment where you NEED the damage buff.

If you want SPC to outshine you'll have to use more healing skill or healing modifier and that will just be another dps loose for less uptime on other support set like MK/Z'en/Roar/Ele Cata etc..

Olo was a lazy and easy set providing one of the most powerful buff in the game at 100% uptime at no cost and no effort.
Now it's gonna be harder to reach the 100% uptime and it's not a bad thing.

Both set will be good depending of the encounter, that all.

I didn't intend to contradict myself and I'm not sure I did. I personally don't think one healer keeping up Olo is yawn in harder content if you are also trying to balance providing orbs, combat prayer, ele drain, PoTL, and supplentary DPS, especially in fights where DPS is not stacked. I played with SPC for YEARS and it was so brainless.. spamming regeneration and making sure hots were on to get the buff instead of thinking about placement and timing while adding other value.

And as for coordinating with the other healer of course that can be a fun and it requires skill but it seems redundant and boring if we are now both doing something one of us could do before. Swapping horns on cool down and coordinating worn sets? Great. Constantly talking over the raid about where to drop the buff seems tiresome and too much focus on one mechanic when we have LOTS of things to coordinate.

Which is WHY everyone will probably default to two SPC setups in many cases, which is why I think this proposed change is taking us in the wrong direction from a healing perspective. It feels like we are going back to 2015.

Don't get me wrong. Olo isn't perfect and I didn't even like it when it came out. I just think healers deserve something better than a slight improvement to a set that takes us back to overhealing and nerfs to almost everything else. A new mechanic to open up MORE choices would have been better instead of reducing what we can bring and having to coordinate doing the same thing in an overly complicated and unnecessary way.

But. We will see what happens as PTS updates.

Seem fair I understand better what you was saying.
For the moment when I speak with my raid squad we pretty much agree than even only 1 Olo is still gonna be meta since it's not really limited to 6 player but 6/tick.

We will see anyway, I don't mind to adapt and overcome as always ^^
(And yeah not gonna lie I'm tired to use Olo every time, that why most of the time I go for off-healer with mk/z'en even if I don't like z'en, it's good to change.