Why do people want to turn ESO into WOW?

Tigerseye

Thechuckage wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Taunky wrote: »

AOE taunting should be a thing though. Queues take forever because nobody wants to tank in this game.

Or because tanks do not want to PUG. An AOE taunt wouldn't solve the issues that keep tanks out of the GF.

I think it would exacerbate the worst problems of the PuG dungeon experience. The "leet player" who rushes ahead to grab stuff would be more upset if the tank got overwhelmed / or would try to pull as much as possible if the tank DOES survive.

Do NOT want to play as a combo walking aggro post and perma-block machine.

But, an "aggro post" is kind of what a tank is...

Otherwise, they're just a bad DPS.

I'm not "leet", I'm just quite high CP and I try, out of courtesy, to stop myself rushing ahead of the tank.

But, if you can (easily) solo the dungeon as DPS, know it well and have been doing it repeatedly to try to get a lead (for example), it is very hard to stop yourself running ahead and just clearing some mobs.

Especially if the tank is really dawdling and lagging behind, all the time.

So, if even relatively considerate, well mannered players do that anyway, sometimes, I don't really see how making the tank's life easier and the tank role a bit more more attractive would be a bad thing?

Especially as there is a severe shortage of tanks in this game, relative to games like WoW.

Another thing they could do, which they do in WoW, is to give a small incentive (like an extra goody bag) to tanks to do dungeons, especially at quieter times.

They could also make it far easier and free to change specs and gear.

I don't think any of those suggestions would either break the game, or make it indistinguishable from WoW.

They're just common sense.

Athyrium93

I think a lot of the "take this thing from this other MMO" would die down if we had a few quality of life improvements.

-Server performance
-Slightly reduce the advantage that animation canceling gives. (Maybe by standardizing animation length to match the skills actual time, and reducing the damage of LA by something like 20%)
-Make riding speed/stamina/slots account wide.
-Give people the ability to buy or earn new pet skins.
-Add a search feature to the guild trader, maybe from banks, that just lists the closest trader to have that item but not the price (to find rare items without using addons)

Most people asking for those things are newer players, and newer players have a habit of not sticking around, so give them a taste of what they want to encourage them to stay, but without annoying the existing player base.

FlopsyPrince

I don't seek a central AH because I want the game to be like WoW. I want that because the current system sucks.

I am sure someone will feel compelled to reply about how wonderful it is, but the reason those threads keep happening is because it doesn't work as well as some claim.

I would love a hunter-like class (which was my focus in WoW), but I have not made a single request for that here.

The OP's point is not accurate in the slightest. I want a game that is fun and enjoyable and not too many things that are like work. I do not want ESO to be WoW in any way.

FlopsyPrince

ToxicFireWolf wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Honestly I think its always worthwile discussing features and therefore looking at other games, trying to incoporate what works and leave behind what doesnt work...thats a good way to progress without too much of a gamble if it works or not...doesnt mean you have to adapt everything, but why not look at and try things and see if it works...if the game doesnt evolve it will eventually die

True, if the game doesnt evolve it will die, but adding more skill spaces would make game so much more different, adding an AH would change the economy forever, aoe taunt ability would add a "press for easy win" button for tanking, and automatic light attacks would destroy the combat system that eso has, these are only a few examples. So its not always "look at WoW, the game thats almost 16 years old and add things from there".

Changing the economy forever is not a bad thing.

Some changes are really good. Arguing against it merely because it is in WoW doesn't prove anything.

Agenericname

Tigerseye wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Taunky wrote: »

AOE taunting should be a thing though. Queues take forever because nobody wants to tank in this game.

Or because tanks do not want to PUG. An AOE taunt wouldn't solve the issues that keep tanks out of the GF.

I think it would exacerbate the worst problems of the PuG dungeon experience. The "leet player" who rushes ahead to grab stuff would be more upset if the tank got overwhelmed / or would try to pull as much as possible if the tank DOES survive.

Do NOT want to play as a combo walking aggro post and perma-block machine.

But, an "aggro post" is kind of what a tank is...

Otherwise, they're just a bad DPS.

I'm not "leet", I'm just quite high CP and I try, out of courtesy, to stop myself rushing ahead of the tank.

But, if you can (easily) solo the dungeon as DPS, know it well and have been doing it repeatedly to try to get a lead (for example), it is very hard to stop yourself running ahead and just clearing some mobs.

Especially if the tank is really dawdling and lagging behind, all the time.

So, if even relatively considerate, well mannered players do that anyway, sometimes, I don't really see how making the tank's life easier and the tank role a bit more more attractive would be a bad thing?

Especially as there is a severe shortage of tanks in this game, relative to games like WoW.

Another thing they could do, which they do in WoW, is to give a small incentive (like an extra goody bag) to tanks to do dungeons, especially at quieter times.

They could also make it far easier and free to change specs and gear.

I don't think any of those suggestions would either break the game, or make it indistinguishable from WoW.

They're just common sense.

WoW also has a qualification system, or they did when I played. In order to queue you needed to pass it. If they did that, they would also need one for healers and a DDs. I doubt many would be happy about that. If they did not, then we would see exactly what they're talking about and more fake tanks for the rewards. Even a qualification system couldn't stop them so its really sort of moot anyway.

I would be perfectly fine with making gear swaps more widely accessible. I believe that was mentioned a while back and something possibly to look forward to.

The reasons that you stated for rushing ahead are at least part of the reason why I do not PUG as much. I'll PUG the vet DLCs occasionally, but that's about it. As a tank I can group the adds into small little bundles, apply crusher, alkosh, warhorn, minor courage, and in general make the DPS even higher. That doesn't mean much in a normal dungeon, so I do not run them at al all. To be perfectly honest tanks are a necessity in many base game vets either, but we can make the runs faster and smoother. When they run ahead, and often struggle, it just slows everything down. If they're learning, that's fine. We all started somewhere, but that's not always the case. Its far smoother, less conflict, and usually much faster to run with a group.

Most of the guilds that I am a part of have an abundance of tanks. So many that we can't always tank. We often need to change to DPS to run. The common denominator is that nobody wants to PUG, it isn't that nobody wants to tank. An AOE taunt wouldn't solve that and it adds something that most tanks in the game do not want.

Many of the suggestions made for tanks on the forums are made by DDs and do not address the reasons why they avoid the DF.

Kadoin

To be fair, it's already heading there with the kind of "balance " the game is getting...

Minyassa

Some of us never played WoW and some of the changes that we like suggestions for are just things that we think would improve the flow of the game, without having ever seen it in other games. Like AoE taunt; as a frequent tank I've just often wished that was a thing, because it would be really nice to have. Just because I decide I'd like to own a hex wrench doesn't mean I want to work at Autozone, it just means I have hex nuts I'd like to not have to use an open-end wrench on anymore.

Tigerseye

Agenericname wrote: »

WoW also has a qualification system, or they did when I played. In order to queue you needed to pass it. If they did that, they would also need one for healers and a DDs.

Yes, it did and I would add that too.

I doubt many would be happy about that.

Honestly, I don't really care if people using groupfinder to queue as a fake tank, purely to skip the queue, would be happy, or not, as long as it meant more real tanks queuing.

There would then be less of a queue for everyone, anyway.

So, less reason to fake it.

If they desperately want a 4 DPS run, they can make their own group.

They could always wave the groupfinder requirement for a fully pre-formed group, anyway.

Even a qualification system couldn't stop them

Why not?

I would be perfectly fine with making gear swaps more widely accessible. I believe that was mentioned a while back and something possibly to look forward to.

Oh nice, let's hope so.

The reasons that you stated for rushing ahead are at least part of the reason why I do not PUG as much. I'll PUG the vet DLCs occasionally, but that's about it. As a tank I can group the adds into small little bundles, apply crusher, alkosh, warhorn, minor courage, and in general make the DPS even higher. That doesn't mean much in a normal dungeon, so I do not run them at al all. To be perfectly honest tanks are a necessity in many base game vets either, but we can make the runs faster and smoother. When they run ahead, and often struggle, it just slows everything down. If they're learning, that's fine. We all started somewhere, but that's not always the case. Its far smoother, less conflict, and usually much faster to run with a group.

I, personally, think a good tank (like you) is invaluable pretty much anywhere, but the truth is, there are very few of them around.

As a DPS, you often have to wait half an hour for a normal dungeon, with any old tank (or fake tank), let alone a good one.

Yes, of course if the DPS are dying by running ahead, that is an issue, but if they are high CP and can mow down mobs pretty fast, without dying, while a tank is still hanging around in the previous boss room, for some reason, then inevitably some people will do that.

Especially if it's a tank that can't hold aggro, or group mobs, anyway, because they have no AOE taunt (or taunt, at all, sometimes) and are not tanking experts, with 2 different taunts (and maybe also the 5 set bonus one) permanently on their bars.

Most of the guilds that I am a part of have an abundance of tanks. So many that we can't always tank. We often need to change to DPS to run. The common denominator is that nobody wants to PUG, it isn't that nobody wants to tank. An AOE taunt wouldn't solve that and it adds something that most tanks in the game do not want.

Many of the suggestions made for tanks on the forums are made by DDs and do not address the reasons why they avoid the DF.

Well, whatever the case in your guild, clearly the problem (in general) isn't that people across the board don't want to PUG.

Otherwise, there would be a shortage of all roles; not just tanks (and healers).

Some people don't want to PUG, some do, but either way, we need more people, who do want to PUG, to play tanks.

That isn't going to happen, unless it is easier to become adequate sooner (via, I would suggest, an AOE taunt) and easy (and free) to swap specs, at will.

Tigerseye

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I don't seek a central AH because I want the game to be like WoW. I want that because the current system sucks.

I am sure someone will feel compelled to reply about how wonderful it is, but the reason those threads keep happening is because it doesn't work as well as some claim.

I would love a hunter-like class (which was my focus in WoW), but I have not made a single request for that here.

The OP's point is not accurate in the slightest. I want a game that is fun and enjoyable and not too many things that are like work. I do not want ESO to be WoW in any way.

Warden is supposed to be like Hunter, but you can only have a bear pet and can't tame other ones...

Also, it has a Frost Mage type tanking spec, that really shouldn't be there and only is, from what I understand, because people (who really wanted a Mage class) begged for it.

Most of the people who asked probably don't even main Warden, now...

idk

Agenericname wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Taunky wrote: »

AOE taunting should be a thing though. Queues take forever because nobody wants to tank in this game.

Or because tanks do not want to PUG. An AOE taunt wouldn't solve the issues that keep tanks out of the GF.

I think it would exacerbate the worst problems of the PuG dungeon experience. The "leet player" who rushes ahead to grab stuff would be more upset if the tank got overwhelmed / or would try to pull as much as possible if the tank DOES survive.

Do NOT want to play as a combo walking aggro post and perma-block machine.

But, an "aggro post" is kind of what a tank is...

Otherwise, they're just a bad DPS.

I'm not "leet", I'm just quite high CP and I try, out of courtesy, to stop myself rushing ahead of the tank.

But, if you can (easily) solo the dungeon as DPS, know it well and have been doing it repeatedly to try to get a lead (for example), it is very hard to stop yourself running ahead and just clearing some mobs.

Especially if the tank is really dawdling and lagging behind, all the time.

So, if even relatively considerate, well mannered players do that anyway, sometimes, I don't really see how making the tank's life easier and the tank role a bit more more attractive would be a bad thing?

Especially as there is a severe shortage of tanks in this game, relative to games like WoW.

Another thing they could do, which they do in WoW, is to give a small incentive (like an extra goody bag) to tanks to do dungeons, especially at quieter times.

They could also make it far easier and free to change specs and gear.

I don't think any of those suggestions would either break the game, or make it indistinguishable from WoW.

They're just common sense.

WoW also has a qualification system, or they did when I played. In order to queue you needed to pass it. If they did that, they would also need one for healers and a DDs. I doubt many would be happy about that. If they did not, then we would see exactly what they're talking about and more fake tanks for the rewards. Even a qualification system couldn't stop them so its really sort of moot anyway.

I would be perfectly fine with making gear swaps more widely accessible. I believe that was mentioned a while back and something possibly to look forward to.

The reasons that you stated for rushing ahead are at least part of the reason why I do not PUG as much. I'll PUG the vet DLCs occasionally, but that's about it. As a tank I can group the adds into small little bundles, apply crusher, alkosh, warhorn, minor courage, and in general make the DPS even higher. That doesn't mean much in a normal dungeon, so I do not run them at al all. To be perfectly honest tanks are a necessity in many base game vets either, but we can make the runs faster and smoother. When they run ahead, and often struggle, it just slows everything down. If they're learning, that's fine. We all started somewhere, but that's not always the case. Its far smoother, less conflict, and usually much faster to run with a group.

Most of the guilds that I am a part of have an abundance of tanks. So many that we can't always tank. We often need to change to DPS to run. The common denominator is that nobody wants to PUG, it isn't that nobody wants to tank. An AOE taunt wouldn't solve that and it adds something that most tanks in the game do not want.

Many of the suggestions made for tanks on the forums are made by DDs and do not address the reasons why they avoid the DF.

These are good points. While I have not seen the qualification system in WoW because I could not stand to play the game long enough I did see some of them in FF14. It is not a bad idea though it is still rudimentary.

You are also correct that this game does not have a shortage of tanks. Just shortage of tanks willing to deal with GF groups. If tanks could be more assured the group was at least minimally competent more might use the GF.

ToxicFireWolf

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

[removed for baiting]

So the whole post then? No one here's trying to turn this game into WOW and the OP is just using random threads that are valid to justify a new thread instead of posting in those threads.

If your main objection to a suggestion to make the game better is "then the game will turn into WOW" then you really don't have much of an objection.

If you think redoing the whole trading system, the whole combat system and basically redoing the whole game just to appeal to a few people would be "ImPrOvInG tHe GaMe", u should go and play a different game, the one u maybe care about.

The fact that i dont want ESO to turn into WoW is bc WoW is a generic mmo, and ESO is different from WoW in a lot of things, just the fact i wanna keep it as it is (and ofc add QOL changes) doesnt mean i dont want to improve the game.

Pink_Pixie

I've never played WoW and would never put that obscene thing on my hard drive. I do care about ESO as the time I have put into it and money, shows that ESO has an enjoyment factor for me. However, asking for changes that help the player base on a whole, is not a bad thing at all.

And no, I don't agree with an AoE taunt, but I feel the current taunt system pigeon holes tanks into generic builds, which are a ranged taunt, chain and a melee taunt. Although, asking for a better trade system doesn't turn the game into another MMO, in fact it offers a much more flexible approach and saves a lot of time for players.

I really didn't read every point that was made by the OP, but suggesting players wish to turn ESO into another game I care not to mention, is far off the mark as far as I am concerned.

vibeborn

ToxicFireWolf wrote: »

vibeborn wrote: »

I've been wanting an AOE taunt ever since someone whispered to me that I should use one.
Never in a million years does that equal to me wanting to play WOW.

And even if ESO are taking ideas from WOW, so what? What's wrong with being inspired when it comes to features?

AoE tanking would be [snip], you would have idiots go in a room use aoe taunt and sit doing nothnig, if that is tanking to you plz dont tank.

its not that eso takes ideas from wow, its that people who came from wow want to change major parts of the game just because its not like wow.

Ah, valid point indeed Doesn't deny the fact though that someone still whispered to me that I should use one, causing me to look it up and finding out no such thing exists in ESO. Of course such a feature shouldn't me misused.

[edited to remove quote]

SickleCider

I never played WoW, don't know anything about WoW (it has trolls or something), and I want certain QoL features because they just sound good. Taaaaadaaaaaa.

asuzab16_ESO

Players usually try to bash WoW because they believe they look cool doing so, but if you look at most of the threads on this forum, you can see that most of them actually like its features: easy overland content, repeatable veteran dungeons and raids, etc... Any suggestion to break away from the systems that WoW created and that affect ESO today is instantly faced with raising shields to protect them. Over the years, I noticed that the ESO community is extremely fond of stuff coming from WoW, as long as you don't mention the name, because you know... You got to keep appearances.

ToxicFireWolf

Versispellis wrote: »

I never played WoW, don't know anything about WoW (it has trolls or something), and I want certain QoL features because they just sound good. Taaaaadaaaaaa.

QOL features are good to have, and i support most, but changing major parts of the game is what im against. Taaaaaaadaaaaaa.

ZOS_Lunar

Greetings!
We've removed some posts from this thread as they violated our rules on baiting. We understand that everyone has their own opinions they want to express, but we also want the forums to be a constructive platform for ESO and its community. Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.

Agenericname

Tigerseye wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

WoW also has a qualification system, or they did when I played. In order to queue you needed to pass it. If they did that, they would also need one for healers and a DDs.

Yes, it did and I would add that too.

I doubt many would be happy about that.

Honestly, I don't really care if people using groupfinder to queue as a fake tank, purely to skip the queue, would be happy, or not, as long as it meant more real tanks queuing.

There would then be less of a queue for everyone, anyway.

So, less reason to fake it.

If they desperately want a 4 DPS run, they can make their own group.

They could always wave the groupfinder requirement for a fully pre-formed group, anyway.

Even a qualification system couldn't stop them

Why not?

I would be perfectly fine with making gear swaps more widely accessible. I believe that was mentioned a while back and something possibly to look forward to.

Oh nice, let's hope so.

The reasons that you stated for rushing ahead are at least part of the reason why I do not PUG as much. I'll PUG the vet DLCs occasionally, but that's about it. As a tank I can group the adds into small little bundles, apply crusher, alkosh, warhorn, minor courage, and in general make the DPS even higher. That doesn't mean much in a normal dungeon, so I do not run them at al all. To be perfectly honest tanks are a necessity in many base game vets either, but we can make the runs faster and smoother. When they run ahead, and often struggle, it just slows everything down. If they're learning, that's fine. We all started somewhere, but that's not always the case. Its far smoother, less conflict, and usually much faster to run with a group.

I, personally, think a good tank (like you) is invaluable pretty much anywhere, but the truth is, there are very few of them around.

As a DPS, you often have to wait half an hour for a normal dungeon, with any old tank (or fake tank), let alone a good one.

Yes, of course if the DPS are dying by running ahead, that is an issue, but if they are high CP and can mow down mobs pretty fast, without dying, while a tank is still hanging around in the previous boss room, for some reason, then inevitably some people will do that.

Especially if it's a tank that can't hold aggro, or group mobs, anyway, because they have no AOE taunt (or taunt, at all, sometimes) and are not tanking experts, with 2 different taunts (and maybe also the 5 set bonus one) permanently on their bars.

Most of the guilds that I am a part of have an abundance of tanks. So many that we can't always tank. We often need to change to DPS to run. The common denominator is that nobody wants to PUG, it isn't that nobody wants to tank. An AOE taunt wouldn't solve that and it adds something that most tanks in the game do not want.

Many of the suggestions made for tanks on the forums are made by DDs and do not address the reasons why they avoid the DF.

Well, whatever the case in your guild, clearly the problem (in general) isn't that people across the board don't want to PUG.

Otherwise, there would be a shortage of all roles; not just tanks (and healers).

Some people don't want to PUG, some do, but either way, we need more people, who do want to PUG, to play tanks.

That isn't going to happen, unless it is easier to become adequate sooner (via, I would suggest, an AOE taunt) and easy (and free) to swap specs, at will.

Just to highlight what you said, but not necessarily point a finger at you specifically, the bolded is part of the reason why when a new player asks a question on the forums concerning tanking they're quickly told to find a good guild. The potential to learn is much greater.

New tanks can easily find themselves in an unneeded and often unwanted role in normal dungeons and when they get to vet they're expected to know enough to not be an absolute noob. The easiest and most efficient way to do that is to run with a guild, group, or friends. This environment is created at least partially by the DDs themselves.

When a tank moves slowly through a instance there can be many reasons why, but here are a couple; they're unfamiliar with that instance or their role. I say "role" in the more general sense as it's entirely possible for tanks to move through dungeons very quickly while maintaining their resource pools, but it often takes time to get to that point. If you're being impatient and denying that tank the opportunity to learn, you're likely contributing to the reasons why they avoid the DF in the first place.

I meant to say that tanks "aren't" an absolutely necessity is base game vets in the previous post.

I primarily split my time between a tank and a DD. I can and have solo'd most on vet. I'm well aware of just how boring Arx Corinium can be after the eleventy-first time, even on vet HM. A little patience can still go a long way though.

If you want more new tanks, then make it easier for them to learn their role, and we as a community can contribute to that. If you want more experienced tanks back in the queue, then solve the issues that keep them out. An AOE taunt is not a solution to either.

TheImperfect

I like ESO and I like WOW but they are very different games. I used to play WOW but prefer ESO. I think there are good ideas in other games that can be implemented in this game but they have to be true to it's heart, style and spirit. I definitely don't want ESO to become WOW though.

JMadFour

I don't care if it is "Unique." The Guild Trader system sucks, and as a purchaser it is not fun to utilize and it is a time-waster.

Chuck_Finley

I've played a few MMO's, Started with WoW, then tried and loved ESO since beta and when I wanted something different than magic and castles I tried and enjoyed Star Wars the Old Republic for some space ships and ... well I guess space magic. I also looked into a few more and quite frankly your list of reasons why those changes would turn the game into WoW are misguided.

First, more games than WoW have AoE taunts, it's something tanks have been asking for since beta. (I've been here since beta, I've seen the threads and read the zone chat many times over the years) either you like the idea or not, it's not a WoW mechanic and bringing it in wouldn't turn the game into WoW.

Second, it's obvious these games are all looked at by the other dev teams. ESO introduced a crafting bag, then after a while WoW introduced their reagent bank (same thing different name) and this last year SWTOR put in their own crafting bag. Did that make WoW or SWTOR like ESO? Not from my viewpoint it didn't. I'm sure there are many such tiny changes that players can point to over the years, that is just one.

And I saw that AoE taunt thread with a lot of replies in it saying "nah it's fine, if you want an AoE taunt you want an easymode, just gitgud" I also see youtube suggest recent videos from content makers with titles like "ESO where did all the tanks go" "Why arent people tanking in ESO" and so on. Even without those videos its easy to see tanks need some changes in this game when I can wait 45 minutes or longer on a pledge day to do a vet pledge on a DPS or healer, but I get instantly qued in on my tank. There is a reason why most people dont play tank, it isn't as fun as DPS or Heals, and while fun is subjective, its very apparent there are a tiny amount of tanks and a large amount of heals/dps. The lack of tanks suggests a lack of fun playing tanks which in turn suggests some changes might be in order. But I guess "gitgud, tanking is fine as is" is an easier response or get your own premade team if you don't want a long que. Neither answer makes more people want to play tank btw.

LightningWitch

ToxicFireWolf wrote: »

If the game is too hard to play for you, because light attacking in between skills is too hard and hurts your fingers, go back to WoW where light attacking is automatic.

When the game launched, ZOS never once mentioned the weaving mechanic.

The majority of early players learned about the animation canceling, most likely because they were button mashing and just noticed it.

It took years for ZOS to acknowledge it in the game and to this day, there is still no tutorial in the game to instruct new players on its mechanic or how to do it.

This is not a feature of the game. It's bad design. Literally every other MMO which used it in the past has corrected this broken mechanic and made the game more enjoyable.

I'll gladly trade bosses having 50K+ health to make up the "challenge" of losing this idiotic mechanic.

ESO is different from other MMOs and it should stay that way.

No, it's not. The majority of the game's design is targeted at Skryim players, which not only makes it diluted, it literally pushes the Skyrim agenda with most major DLC and chapter releases.

Dragons! Woot!
Look! Western Skyrim!

I'm literally shocked they haven't changed the game to "Skyrim Online" to get the rest of the players out there.

I'm not saying that the game is perfect, its filled with bugs (FEATURES), but it sure will lose its uniqueness once some of these changes get implemented.

This is the major problem you're ignoring. The devs aren't listening to its players, who would like new features to replace the bad ones which have plaguing this game for 6 years.

It is literally inexcusable to see a development team ignore (and worse, prioritize issues based on "severity"), all the while telling everyone they've been working on a new battle mechanic with light and heavy attacks.

Are you expecting people to tolerate this, especially given many support this game financially?

That's pretty audacious, frankly.

And as a final note ... go back to your WOW forums and cry there about how the game is trash, most of ESO community hates your posts and would rather see the game die rather than having it slightly similar to WoW.

I don't agree with clearly biased rhetoric.

The majority of features people bring to ESO from other MMOs are actually quite good and can do a great service to make ESO an even better game.

Your blinded attitude ignores this because you think it's okay to have to deal with a feature where our crafting list sits outside the crafting window instead of inside it where it belongs.

That's pretty foolish, frankly.

Just to clarify: I have been playing for 3 years now...

Well, my time is bigger than yours because I've been playing for 6 years, and this game is sorely overdue from some much needed changes and features.

Far, far overdue.

I still enjoy the game, but I'm also tired of these dead "features" we're forced to deal with.

FlopsyPrince

Tigerseye wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I don't seek a central AH because I want the game to be like WoW. I want that because the current system sucks.

I am sure someone will feel compelled to reply about how wonderful it is, but the reason those threads keep happening is because it doesn't work as well as some claim.

I would love a hunter-like class (which was my focus in WoW), but I have not made a single request for that here.

The OP's point is not accurate in the slightest. I want a game that is fun and enjoyable and not too many things that are like work. I do not want ESO to be WoW in any way.

Warden is supposed to be like Hunter, but you can only have a bear pet and can't tame other ones...

Also, it has a Frost Mage type tanking spec, that really shouldn't be there and only is, from what I understand, because people (who really wanted a Mage class) begged for it.

Most of the people who asked probably don't even main Warden, now...

Wardens don't feel anything like hunters, at least to me. I am not very impressed with that class. I have too many variants on a pet sorc, as that is the only class I can really do well at, except for the other class that has a dual wield with a self heal (I forget which now).

Definitely a different game.

I am not asking for WoW-like hunters BTW, but I wouldn't complain if they showed up.

Tigerseye

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I don't seek a central AH because I want the game to be like WoW. I want that because the current system sucks.

I am sure someone will feel compelled to reply about how wonderful it is, but the reason those threads keep happening is because it doesn't work as well as some claim.

I would love a hunter-like class (which was my focus in WoW), but I have not made a single request for that here.

The OP's point is not accurate in the slightest. I want a game that is fun and enjoyable and not too many things that are like work. I do not want ESO to be WoW in any way.

Warden is supposed to be like Hunter, but you can only have a bear pet and can't tame other ones...

Also, it has a Frost Mage type tanking spec, that really shouldn't be there and only is, from what I understand, because people (who really wanted a Mage class) begged for it.

Most of the people who asked probably don't even main Warden, now...

Wardens don't feel anything like hunters, at least to me. I am not very impressed with that class. I have too many variants on a pet sorc, as that is the only class I can really do well at, except for the other class that has a dual wield with a self heal (I forget which now).

Definitely a different game.

I am not asking for WoW-like hunters BTW, but I wouldn't complain if they showed up.

Well, Wardens are definitely quite different, I agree, but as I say I think they are supposed be the equivalent, so it might be easier to try to ask for options to make Warden feel a a bit more like Hunter, rather than asking for (or not objecting to!) a whole new Hunter class?

There again, I also wouldn't mind at all if they did take the new class path and introduced one.

Achronokey

VaranisArano wrote: »

Probably the same reason people suggest features from other games: they like those games and wish features they enjoy were in this game. Its very natural to think "I like this feature from this game and this feature from this other game. If we combine them, we get the best of both worlds!"

Unfortunately, there lies the path of trying to please everyone, which is fraught with pitfalls for game devs.

U are soooo wrong here, people(players) who have already seen some other games will always compare and if some things made better is good for ESO, however is some other gamedesign looks like bad version of similar MMO/Any online game( or even offline game) or even not existing while competitors have em, its only natural for players to complain about it and suggest to change it.

Unfortunately people tend to post more complaints then say "txh for wat u done", but it does not mean those complaints or suggestion should be bashed only by fact they use game Y like example.

Pleasing everyone is not such a problem, when u face obvious flaws and u have an example of the same feature made better with more usability, etc.

Tigerseye

Agenericname wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

WoW also has a qualification system, or they did when I played. In order to queue you needed to pass it. If they did that, they would also need one for healers and a DDs.

Yes, it did and I would add that too.

I doubt many would be happy about that.

Honestly, I don't really care if people using groupfinder to queue as a fake tank, purely to skip the queue, would be happy, or not, as long as it meant more real tanks queuing.

There would then be less of a queue for everyone, anyway.

So, less reason to fake it.

If they desperately want a 4 DPS run, they can make their own group.

They could always wave the groupfinder requirement for a fully pre-formed group, anyway.

Even a qualification system couldn't stop them

Why not?

I would be perfectly fine with making gear swaps more widely accessible. I believe that was mentioned a while back and something possibly to look forward to.

Oh nice, let's hope so.

The reasons that you stated for rushing ahead are at least part of the reason why I do not PUG as much. I'll PUG the vet DLCs occasionally, but that's about it. As a tank I can group the adds into small little bundles, apply crusher, alkosh, warhorn, minor courage, and in general make the DPS even higher. That doesn't mean much in a normal dungeon, so I do not run them at al all. To be perfectly honest tanks are a necessity in many base game vets either, but we can make the runs faster and smoother. When they run ahead, and often struggle, it just slows everything down. If they're learning, that's fine. We all started somewhere, but that's not always the case. Its far smoother, less conflict, and usually much faster to run with a group.

I, personally, think a good tank (like you) is invaluable pretty much anywhere, but the truth is, there are very few of them around.

As a DPS, you often have to wait half an hour for a normal dungeon, with any old tank (or fake tank), let alone a good one.

Yes, of course if the DPS are dying by running ahead, that is an issue, but if they are high CP and can mow down mobs pretty fast, without dying, while a tank is still hanging around in the previous boss room, for some reason, then inevitably some people will do that.

Especially if it's a tank that can't hold aggro, or group mobs, anyway, because they have no AOE taunt (or taunt, at all, sometimes) and are not tanking experts, with 2 different taunts (and maybe also the 5 set bonus one) permanently on their bars.

Most of the guilds that I am a part of have an abundance of tanks. So many that we can't always tank. We often need to change to DPS to run. The common denominator is that nobody wants to PUG, it isn't that nobody wants to tank. An AOE taunt wouldn't solve that and it adds something that most tanks in the game do not want.

Many of the suggestions made for tanks on the forums are made by DDs and do not address the reasons why they avoid the DF.

Well, whatever the case in your guild, clearly the problem (in general) isn't that people across the board don't want to PUG.

Otherwise, there would be a shortage of all roles; not just tanks (and healers).

Some people don't want to PUG, some do, but either way, we need more people, who do want to PUG, to play tanks.

That isn't going to happen, unless it is easier to become adequate sooner (via, I would suggest, an AOE taunt) and easy (and free) to swap specs, at will.

Just to highlight what you said, but not necessarily point a finger at you specifically, the bolded is part of the reason why when a new player asks a question on the forums concerning tanking they're quickly told to find a good guild. The potential to learn is much greater.

New tanks can easily find themselves in an unneeded and often unwanted role in normal dungeons and when they get to vet they're expected to know enough to not be an absolute noob. The easiest and most efficient way to do that is to run with a guild, group, or friends. This environment is created at least partially by the DDs themselves.

When a tank moves slowly through a instance there can be many reasons why, but here are a couple; they're unfamiliar with that instance or their role. I say "role" in the more general sense as it's entirely possible for tanks to move through dungeons very quickly while maintaining their resource pools, but it often takes time to get to that point. If you're being impatient and denying that tank the opportunity to learn, you're likely contributing to the reasons why they avoid the DF in the first place.

I meant to say that tanks "aren't" an absolutely necessity is base game vets in the previous post.

I primarily split my time between a tank and a DD. I can and have solo'd most on vet. I'm well aware of just how boring Arx Corinium can be after the eleventy-first time, even on vet HM. A little patience can still go a long way though.

If you want more new tanks, then make it easier for them to learn their role, and we as a community can contribute to that. If you want more experienced tanks back in the queue, then solve the issues that keep them out.

No, I know.

I agree with you (up to this point!) and I normally try to do all that, as I want to help people to be able to learn.

As long as I haven't already run the same instance 7 times in a row and the tank is moving at all, however slowly, I do normally manage to be patient.

I'm just trying to be honest, here - I am admitting that even I, a pretty patient person, finally tire of waiting 5 mins for a tank to decide to move from one room to another.

...and let's face it, assuming he's not brand new, he's probably not moving at all, for that long, because he is annoyed that people aren't waiting deferentially enough for him and always staying behind him.

Some tanks can be a bit like that...

I get how they feel, to an extent, as sometimes you can feel surplus to requirements as a DPS, or a healer, too.

Haven't played healer here, but have in WoW, a few years ago.

I'm only saying all this to demonstrate that even patient people can have their limits and because I know, from experience, that most people are less patient than I am; not more.

So, I would suggest it might be wise to make basic tanking easier and more attractive and adding an AOE taunt would be a big part of that.

Because, then, however impatient the DPS, the tank could quickly and easily grab aggro back from them.

Rather than relying on the pipe dream, that is everyone becoming super, super patient and always allowing the tank to pull first, however long that might take.

Achronokey

sirpz wrote: »

In my experience the people who want most of these changes are just bad at the game and want the game to adapt to them.

They bad at features they dont like? i wonder how that happened. U remind me my fellow opponent from near topic, he saying same thing:

"
No no no, its not the flaw of a game, its working as intended. Its ur problem! Ur not good enough with ur skill and understanding of a game! U just need to L2P and adapt to what u have in a game)
"

Making(or keeping unchanged) weird and uncomfortable mechanics do divide people by skill. But... Is that good? ZOS could go a different way and make, for example, vet dungeons/trials MORE difficult in terms of what bosses throw at u, not JUST in terms of u controlling ur character just right and making optimal build.

Achronokey

ToxicFireWolf wrote: »

This post is mainly targeted towards people who would want/support these changes, but any other feedback would still be nice.

I have seen so many forum posts about implementing WoW features into ESO that I'm already sick of them. And I share a lot of opinions with the comments of those posts, comments that some of these features would make the game too easy or ruin the game. And as my friend said: "Most of these posts are like: weaving bad, pvp bad, skill quantity on bar bad, lack of auction house bad, Elder Scrolls lore bad".

Posts like these:
Adding skill for a AoE taunt : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/536273/aoe-taunt
Auction house : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/534350/eso-direly-need-a-central-auction-house
Not enough skill slots : (couldn't find the post, maybe it got deleted but i sure had a good laugh)
Automatic light attacks like in WoW : (Post that I saw a few weeks ago but I still want to include it)
And much more (these are from past few days only)...

Every time I get on forums at least 2 of the posts on the front page are a "Put a WoW feature in ESO" kind of posts, and I'm just curious why do people want to change the game, is it because your favorite game, perhaps WoW, is being turned into a mess by their creators and is slowly dying? Or is it because you want to turn this game into a generic MMO that has nothing unique to offer?

These are my thoughts on these kinds of posts: If u want to play a game with certain features, mechanics or controls, find a game that suits you and dont ruin other games because you dont like how the game works. If the game is too hard to play for you, because light attacking in between skills is too hard and hurts your fingers, go back to WoW where light attacking is automatic. ESO is different from other MMOs and it should stay that way. I'm not saying that the game is perfect, its filled with bugs (FEATURES), but it sure will lose its uniqueness once some of these changes get implemented.

And as a final note ... go back to your WOW forums and cry there about how the game is trash, most of ESO community hates your posts and would rather see the game die rather than having it slightly similar to WoW.

Just to clarify: I have been playing for 3 years now, ever since Morrowind release, since 18th of June 2017 to be precise, 10 characters later, 75% of achievement points on my main, and 3 years of seeing the game change (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worst) and I still see same types of posts like from the day I started, so I can say for myself that I've had enough of them.

[Snip]

[Edited to remove bait]

U can save "unique" feats of a game and make em better at the same time, its not so hard to do, u just need to put some thinking into that instead of simply complaining. Btw noone tells to make ESO like WoW they tell u it would be better if ZOS change some features, and making u example of WoW when same feature works differently.

Example, AOE taunt. Im a tank myself, i have no problems going with PUGS in VET dungeons. At the beginning i've noticed this game does not have AOE taunt and was speechless, the only question "WHY" was in my head for half an hour. But okay, i adapted and just use my aoe at trash and single taunt on boss and adds.

But, would it RUIN the game if ZOS add aoe taunt but make it for example cost lots of resources so u cant spam it?
I dont think so, it will make life of a tank and a group more comfortable but not so much ez then before.

ToxicFireWolf

Achronokey wrote: »

ToxicFireWolf wrote: »

This post is mainly targeted towards people who would want/support these changes, but any other feedback would still be nice.

I have seen so many forum posts about implementing WoW features into ESO that I'm already sick of them. And I share a lot of opinions with the comments of those posts, comments that some of these features would make the game too easy or ruin the game. And as my friend said: "Most of these posts are like: weaving bad, pvp bad, skill quantity on bar bad, lack of auction house bad, Elder Scrolls lore bad".

Posts like these:
Adding skill for a AoE taunt : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/536273/aoe-taunt
Auction house : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/534350/eso-direly-need-a-central-auction-house
Not enough skill slots : (couldn't find the post, maybe it got deleted but i sure had a good laugh)
Automatic light attacks like in WoW : (Post that I saw a few weeks ago but I still want to include it)
And much more (these are from past few days only)...

Every time I get on forums at least 2 of the posts on the front page are a "Put a WoW feature in ESO" kind of posts, and I'm just curious why do people want to change the game, is it because your favorite game, perhaps WoW, is being turned into a mess by their creators and is slowly dying? Or is it because you want to turn this game into a generic MMO that has nothing unique to offer?

These are my thoughts on these kinds of posts: If u want to play a game with certain features, mechanics or controls, find a game that suits you and dont ruin other games because you dont like how the game works. If the game is too hard to play for you, because light attacking in between skills is too hard and hurts your fingers, go back to WoW where light attacking is automatic. ESO is different from other MMOs and it should stay that way. I'm not saying that the game is perfect, its filled with bugs (FEATURES), but it sure will lose its uniqueness once some of these changes get implemented.

And as a final note ... go back to your WOW forums and cry there about how the game is trash, most of ESO community hates your posts and would rather see the game die rather than having it slightly similar to WoW.

Just to clarify: I have been playing for 3 years now, ever since Morrowind release, since 18th of June 2017 to be precise, 10 characters later, 75% of achievement points on my main, and 3 years of seeing the game change (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worst) and I still see same types of posts like from the day I started, so I can say for myself that I've had enough of them.

[Snip]

[Edited to remove bait]

U can save "unique" feats of a game and make em better at the same time, its not so hard to do, u just need to put some thinking into that instead of simply complaining. Btw noone tells to make ESO like WoW they tell u it would be better if ZOS change some features, and making u example of WoW when same feature works differently.

Example, AOE taunt. Im a tank myself, i have no problems going with PUGS in VET dungeons. At the beginning i've noticed this game does not have AOE taunt and was speechless, the only question "WHY" was in my head for half an hour. But okay, i adapted and just use my aoe at trash and single taunt on boss and adds.

But, would it RUIN the game if ZOS add aoe taunt but make it for example cost lots of resources so u cant spam it?
I dont think so, it will make life of a tank and a group more comfortable but not so much ez then before.

I am 99% sure that most tanks when i queue for dungeons would use the aoe taunt and just sit there ... doing NOTHING, as most still do now even without taunting most trash adds, the aoe taunt would just give them an easier time "tanking".

And from my perspective, tanking as it is isnt that bad and i enjoy it, as does most of my raiding guild. I think that an "taunt everything for easy win" skill would make tanking more boring.

Achronokey

ToxicFireWolf wrote: »

I am 99% sure that most tanks when i queue for dungeons would use the aoe taunt and just sit there ... doing NOTHING, as most still do now even without taunting most trash adds, the aoe taunt would just give them an easier time "tanking".

And from my perspective, tanking as it is isnt that bad and i enjoy it, as does most of my raiding guild. I think that an "taunt everything for easy win" skill would make tanking more boring.

Aha, so its better now when i just aoe mobs with icewall and can stay still until they done? If some trash not dead after 7 second, well its DD's problem not mine. If they have so low dps they have to deal with mobs running to them. What u expect me to do if 5+ mobs alive and not on me? taunt em all 1by1? U should try that, i promise u would have wonderful time.

Tanking IS boring in most of the dungeons regardless vet or normal mode, and only newest trials have some threat. Few of not boring wont suffer from aoe taunt at all.
I also suggested this aoe taunt with SOME limitations. Not just like in WoW when u "press X to win"