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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Why weren't pre patch vDSA and vMA weapons upgraded to perfected?
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mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Slapping a new bonus line on it and renaming it doesn't make something a new weapon (as can be seen patch after patch after patch, including U26 with the perfected asylum destro which had an added bonus line that didn't previously exist).
This time, it did, as can be seen by the fact that the old weapon is still around.The vMA weapon was the reward for beating vet.
Yes, and people got that weapon for beating Vet. That was the reward for doing the content, and they get to keep it.
Look, you might not like it, but there were multiple decisions that could have been taken here, and ZOS chose one of them. That is actually the end of the story. This battle is over. You can continue to talk about it, but I think you are wasting your time.
In the end, you are either going to continue playing, or take your marbles to some other game. That is your choice.
Yes, THIS time. Which is a new direction for the team to take and one that most players don't like. We can absolutely keep voicing our opinion on the matter. This decision might be a done deal, as you say, but that doesn't mean we can't make it well known that we don't want them to continue down this route of decision making.
"Suck it up or leave" aren't the only two options. If you want to implement change, you speak up.
It just seems that every decision lately has to be realised through monkey paw logic, or result in winners and losers. As you say, there are many ways to deliver what they want, and they repeatedly go down the most contested route (grant a wish with one hand, smear it with something nasty with the other), despite many voicing the alternatives which often times propose simple 'everyone wins' scenarios. Despite certain people in this thread ignoring the obvious and desperately reaching for logic kinks to prove whatever flawed point, this decision does set a new precedent, and one which flies in the face of what they've established. I don't agree with that, or what it implies, I've stated it across several threads--and I keep asking the same questions. What assurance is there this was a one off? If it was, why this particular case? Without knowing that, everything is fair game, so what's next?Edited by mairwen85 on June 15, 2020 1:46AM4 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Slapping a new bonus line on it and renaming it doesn't make something a new weapon (as can be seen patch after patch after patch, including U26 with the perfected asylum destro which had an added bonus line that didn't previously exist).
This time, it did, as can be seen by the fact that the old weapon is still around.The vMA weapon was the reward for beating vet.
Yes, and people got that weapon for beating Vet. That was the reward for doing the content, and they get to keep it.
Look, you might not like it, but there were multiple decisions that could have been taken here, and ZOS chose one of them. That is actually the end of the story. This battle is over. You can continue to talk about it, but I think you are wasting your time.
In the end, you are either going to continue playing, or take your marbles to some other game. That is your choice.
Yes, THIS time. Which is a new direction for the team to take and one that most players don't like. We can absolutely keep voicing our opinion on the matter. This decision might be a done deal, as you say, but that doesn't mean we can't make it well known that we don't want them to continue down this route of decision making.
"Suck it up or leave" aren't the only two options. If you want to implement change, you speak up.
It just seems that every decision lately has to be realised through monkey paw logic, or result in winners and losers. As you say, there are many ways to deliver what they want, and they repeatedly go down the most contested route (grant a wish with one hand, smear it with something nasty with the other), despite many voicing the alternatives which often times propose simple 'everyone wins' scenarios. Despite certain people in this thread ignoring the obvious and desperately reaching for logic kinks to prove whatever flawed point, this decision does set a new precedent, and one which flies in the face of what they've established. I don't agree with that, or what it implies, I've stated it across several threads--and I keep asking the same questions. What assurance is there this was a one off? If it was, why this particular case? Without knowing that, everything is fair game, so what's next?
Yeah, I think this is the biggest thing. I've accepted that my weapons won't be upgraded. I won't be farming the new ones. When I decide it's time to get the rest of my characters their vet clears, if I get a desirable perfected weapon so be it. But I definitely want to be absolutely clear that I'm not happy. The decision was poorly thought out and poorly defended (it basically amounts to the "because I said so" reasoning) without actually addressing concerns of the players like you've stated. On top of all that, there was a HUGE amount of time where thousands of responses/inquiries about it were flat out ignored, again "because I said so and won't be changing my mind so no point even listening" leaves a huge negative impression of the team and direction the game is heading down.PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS2 -
The702Guy✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
This is a brand new weapon that has never been in the game before so in fact, we have always had to grind to get new gear added to the game so Rich's choice makes absolute sense.As far as I have read, the only reason given to us is they say these weapons are new. I'm skeptical because typically when gear is changed our gear reflects the changes. I suppose that since our previously classified vet arena weapons still exist in the game something had to be called new. The problem for us who have the weapons is that we had vet weapons but now we have normal weapons. While my weapons do not have the bonus, the fact that I ran vet content for them did not change. In my opinion the weapons should have been upgraded.
Here is the announcement thread which is currently 37 pages long with the focus being mainly on customer dissatisfaction. The thread is still open for comments as of this writing.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521860/
No, what you are saying is wrong -- it does not make "absolute sense" because what you say is easily disproved based on precedent of previous "brand new" sets.
ZOS has introduced new names for sets, new bonuses for sets, and changed sets in ways that had previously never existed before, but (since 2016) they have always done this WITHOUT players needing to re-do the exact same content to receive the updated versions. Not updating existing VMA/VDSA weapons is unprecedented -- it does not make sense with how they have handled sets in the last 3-4 years.
Not at all, The new weapon is not changing sets. It is a new weapon added to the game and nothing I said has been disproven here.
I'll say it again, when I farmed for the flame staff originally I farmed for the VETERAN LEVEL WEAPON. If the are going to make the perfected weapons the veteran level weapons then any weapons farmed pre patch need to be upgraded. Its an absolute slap to the face for those who worked for it. And to make it worse you can get the same thing for not even a fraction of the work now? Its absolutely insulting, if they had added a new level in vMA or a hard mode to get the new perfected then it would be different, but they changed the vet level weapon and added no new content. This logic of it being "new" is majorly flawed, technically everytime they buff a set or change a trait in it, it is new. So now we should just start re-farming every set that gets changed right?1 -
BazOfWar✭✭✭✭Seems to me this Greymoor expansion is Zos wanting you veterans to re run old content, that's all the antiquities system amounts to.
To the new players the zones look lively because older players are there digging stuff up.1 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭Seems to me this Greymoor expansion is Zos wanting you veterans to re run old content, that's all the antiquities system amounts to.
To the new players the zones look lively because older players are there digging stuff up.
Didn't do a very good job, since the Perfected weapons realistically only give a fraction of a percent more overall DPS. The tippy top players might rerun to squeeze just a tiny bit more damage out, but the vast majority of vets just won't bother.
In fact, they kinda pushed people in the opposite direction, because they now made it way easier to get the existing weapons, which are basically the Perfected weapons at 98% power level. Might as well run nMA to gear up alts, than spend that time banging your head on your desk in frustration with vMA.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seems to me this Greymoor expansion is Zos wanting you veterans to re run old content, that's all the antiquities system amounts to.
To the new players the zones look lively because older players are there digging stuff up.
Didn't do a very good job, since the Perfected weapons realistically only give a fraction of a percent more overall DPS. The tippy top players might rerun to squeeze just a tiny bit more damage out, but the vast majority of vets just won't bother.
In fact, they kinda pushed people in the opposite direction, because they now made it way easier to get the existing weapons, which are basically the Perfected weapons at 98% power level. Might as well run nMA to gear up alts, than spend that time banging your head on your desk in frustration with vMA.
Actually vMA is full of people these days. Leadboard rewards are above 500k on all classes (dk+warden used to be clear for leadboards) and sorc+NB are both 585k to enter leadboards.0 -
Somers23✭✭I'm not happy that they weren't, 200 spell/weapon damage nerfed, now added penatration with a regrind. What next?Edited by Somers23 on June 17, 2020 6:49AM1
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eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭Seems to me this Greymoor expansion is Zos wanting you veterans to re run old content, that's all the antiquities system amounts to.
To the new players the zones look lively because older players are there digging stuff up.
Didn't do a very good job, since the Perfected weapons realistically only give a fraction of a percent more overall DPS. The tippy top players might rerun to squeeze just a tiny bit more damage out, but the vast majority of vets just won't bother.
In fact, they kinda pushed people in the opposite direction, because they now made it way easier to get the existing weapons, which are basically the Perfected weapons at 98% power level. Might as well run nMA to gear up alts, than spend that time banging your head on your desk in frustration with vMA.
Actually vMA is full of people these days. Leadboard rewards are above 500k on all classes (dk+warden used to be clear for leadboards) and sorc+NB are both 585k to enter leadboards.
The question is, are those people actually rerunning vMA specifically for the weapons, or are they running vMA for other reasons? You can't just look at the leaderboard and go "see, vMA is so active, people are grinding the new weapons!" because you have no way of knowing why those people are in there.
My point was more specifically that the Perfected weapons are barely an upgrade over existing weapons, so I seriously doubt many people will go out of their way to refarm them, just to get a fraction of a percent more overall DPS.
103 weapon damage is pretty much meaningless, same with 3% crit. Pen is completely meaningless when you're already pen capped, even if you spread your CP out a bit more to compensate. Then consider that these are only active on the back bar, which you're on only for a few seconds at most.
Tippy top players will go after them to wring as much DPS out of their builds as possible, some players might go after them despite not really receiving much benefit, and some might be waiting until a double drop event. But I seriously think that a good portion of players just aren't going to bother.Edited by eKsDee on June 17, 2020 7:02AM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
This is a brand new weapon that has never been in the game before so in fact, we have always had to grind to get new gear added to the game so Rich's choice makes absolute sense.As far as I have read, the only reason given to us is they say these weapons are new. I'm skeptical because typically when gear is changed our gear reflects the changes. I suppose that since our previously classified vet arena weapons still exist in the game something had to be called new. The problem for us who have the weapons is that we had vet weapons but now we have normal weapons. While my weapons do not have the bonus, the fact that I ran vet content for them did not change. In my opinion the weapons should have been upgraded.
Here is the announcement thread which is currently 37 pages long with the focus being mainly on customer dissatisfaction. The thread is still open for comments as of this writing.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521860/
No, what you are saying is wrong -- it does not make "absolute sense" because what you say is easily disproved based on precedent of previous "brand new" sets.
ZOS has introduced new names for sets, new bonuses for sets, and changed sets in ways that had previously never existed before, but (since 2016) they have always done this WITHOUT players needing to re-do the exact same content to receive the updated versions. Not updating existing VMA/VDSA weapons is unprecedented -- it does not make sense with how they have handled sets in the last 3-4 years.
Not at all, The new weapon is not changing sets. It is a new weapon added to the game and nothing I said has been disproven here.
I'll say it again, when I farmed for the flame staff originally I farmed for the VETERAN LEVEL WEAPON. If the are going to make the perfected weapons the veteran level weapons then any weapons farmed pre patch need to be upgraded. Its an absolute slap to the face for those who worked for it. And to make it worse you can get the same thing for not even a fraction of the work now? Its absolutely insulting, if they had added a new level in vMA or a hard mode to get the new perfected then it would be different, but they changed the vet level weapon and added no new content. This logic of it being "new" is majorly flawed, technically everytime they buff a set or change a trait in it, it is new. So now we should just start re-farming every set that gets changed right?
While I can understand the desire to not have to grind content for the new weapon, it is still a new weapon and as such it make sense we have to farm it like any other new piece of gear that has been added to the game. Rich's logic is very sound on that matter.
Tweaking/buffing/nerfing traits or set bonuses is irrelevant as this is clearly a new weapon as the old weapon is still in the game. I am stating facts, not an opinion.0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seems to me this Greymoor expansion is Zos wanting you veterans to re run old content, that's all the antiquities system amounts to.
To the new players the zones look lively because older players are there digging stuff up.
Didn't do a very good job, since the Perfected weapons realistically only give a fraction of a percent more overall DPS. The tippy top players might rerun to squeeze just a tiny bit more damage out, but the vast majority of vets just won't bother.
In fact, they kinda pushed people in the opposite direction, because they now made it way easier to get the existing weapons, which are basically the Perfected weapons at 98% power level. Might as well run nMA to gear up alts, than spend that time banging your head on your desk in frustration with vMA.
Actually vMA is full of people these days. Leadboard rewards are above 500k on all classes (dk+warden used to be clear for leadboards) and sorc+NB are both 585k to enter leadboards.
The question is, are those people actually rerunning vMA specifically for the weapons, or are they running vMA for other reasons? You can't just look at the leaderboard and go "see, vMA is so active, people are grinding the new weapons!" because you have no way of knowing why those people are in there.
My point was more specifically that the Perfected weapons are barely an upgrade over existing weapons, so I seriously doubt many people will go out of their way to refarm them, just to get a fraction of a percent more overall DPS.
103 weapon damage is pretty much meaningless, same with 3% crit. Pen is completely meaningless when you're already pen capped, even if you spread your CP out a bit more to compensate. Then consider that these are only active on the back bar, which you're on only for a few seconds at most.
Tippy top players will go after them to wring as much DPS out of their builds as possible, some players might go after them despite not really receiving much benefit, and some might be waiting until a double drop event. But I seriously think that a good portion of players just aren't going to bother.
Personally my only reason to return was because I wanted my perfected version of the bow and inferno, single drop for each, purely for the have (first weekend of greymoor, that was my mission, back-to-back until I had both perfects, just for the have)--not going to waste weeks re-farming for all my characters; especially now that they drop in normals, future gearing will be most probably be done in there. That said, give it a few months however, and I have a sneaky suspicion that perfect bonus will probably change to a more appropriate stat and it will make the difference. They've softened the blow somewhat by making the difference negligible now, but whether they hold true to that down the line is anyone's guess. So we'll see how many times in how many ways they can bend us over on this.1 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
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Even if we follow that logic, the decision to make it work this way - define the veteran set as "new", and the normal set as "old" - is purely arbitrary. There is no inherent necessity to do it like that, instead of the other way around.it is still a new weapon and as such it make sense we have to farm it like any other new piece of gear that has been added to the game. Rich's logic is very sound on that matter.
On the contrary, they took extra steps to [snip] players over. They had veteran, dropping a weapon, and normal, dropping no weapon. Instead of adding a drop to normal and rename the vet drop, they removed it from vet, added it to normal, and added a new one to vet.
I disagree with the "logic" of how Rich is looking at this change - for me, it's about "veteran drop" vs "normal drop". Here as well: It is entirely arbitrary of how you look at this.
And there was still no reason given why we should look at it Rich's way, and why they decided to implement the change in this manner.
Except "I'm the boss, suck it up".
[Minor Edit for Censor Bypass]Edited by Psiion on June 17, 2020 7:27PM0 -
butterrum222✭✭✭Because it’s always fun to run VMA drunk and high early in the day waiting for the pvp crowd to get on during prime time0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Even if we follow that logic, the decision to make it work this way - define the veteran set as "new", and the normal set as "old" - is purely arbitrary. There is no inherent necessity to do it like that, instead of the other way around.it is still a new weapon and as such it make sense we have to farm it like any other new piece of gear that has been added to the game. Rich's logic is very sound on that matter.
The real issue is that it makes zero sense that Zos would add a new weapon in the game, as they did with the perfected MA and Master weapons, and just start giving it to people. That is where the "purely arbitrary" argument loses any standing because it makes sense we have to farm the new weapons as we do any other new gear Zos adds to the game. It would have been purely arbitrary for Zos to do something different here if we are to label anything arbitrary.0 -
zergbase_ESO✭✭✭✭Its pretty frustrating considering it took me almost 20 runs to get a flame staff and now you can do it on normal to get the same exact flame staff. Now I have to rely on rng again to get the vet level weapon? Thats pretty crappy to do to those who grinded it pre-patch.
Because they want you to go back in and regrind the RNG system.0 -
Somers23✭✭But I really don't care anyway. Got the new dlc, played it the first day after returning from a 2 month break no desire to play still.0