Update 26 Combat Preview

Crunkanaut

Flaminir wrote: »

I can honestly say I have never seen messages like the ones going around Discord right now...

Experienced players, officers in guilds... lots cancelling ESO+... many saying they will leave if this goes through.

And these are players who aren't really prone to drama.

The straw that broke the camels back...

And as far as I can see, all for zero benefit to anyone? And certainly not for the health of the game in any way shape or form.

its business man. they gonna add "upgrade your item" buyable options with U27. im telling you.

T3hasiangod

code65536 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert - if somebody were to make such a statement regarding the issue with old arena weapons:

Wouldn´t you agree that this is kind of a slippery slope?

I mean the equavalent would be that the 2018 car that you bought is now discounted at 10% of the original price (you can earn it in normal mode) - effectively devaluing that you earned massively.

It would also mean that the car company at some point went and downgraded your engine from 200 to 150 horsepower for standardization reasons (took away 1p bonuses of existing arena weapons).

Then the company came up a year later with the same car you bought in 2018 - that you no longer have because they then downgraded it in 2019 - and said you can buy it again for the original 2018 price?

In the real world calling that a scam would probably the nicest way to put it no - heh

@ZOS_RichLambert

My main issue with that line of argument is that the means of acquisition is not new. Sure, there's new power in itemization each patch. That require running new content (new trial, new dungeon, etc.) or at least different content.

For example, in 2016 when old VR14 content was upgraded to VR16/CP160, yes, we had to re-run old content to get "new" gear. But the content had also changed. It was rescaled and buffed. It wasn't the same thing and was, in a way, new.

Now, if this introduction of Perfected vMA weapons was accompanied by a re-buffing of vMA to counter the years of power creep or if the conditions of acquisition was somehow different (e.g., requiring a single-sitting run or whatever), then your argument that this is "new" would hold more water. But if the means of acquisition remains identical, then it's a hollow argument that I think few would accept.

As counter-intuitive as it may seem, because it would mean more pain for me, I would actually be okay with having to re-acquire Perfected vMA weapons if, say, you had also buffed the difficulty of vMA.

Honestly, if they made Perfected vMA weapons only drop from Flawless runs, that'd be great.

If they introduced a Hard Mode for vMA, and you could only get Perfected vMA weapons there, that'd be great.

Code pretty much nailed it on the head. If the Perfected versions could only be obtained by doing some sort of challenge or some new buffed version of Maelstrom, I think that'd be fine. Yeah, it'd be a grind, but it'd be a new grind. As it stands, for a lot of veteran players, this is just going to be another 123098 hour grind to get enough Perfected weapons for all their DPS because we're too lazy to move gear from one toon to another.

You could have made Perfected weapons a leaderboard only drop. You could have made it be obtained only via a Flawless run. You could have made it so you had to do Flawless with no sigils. You could have introduced a Hard Mode.

But no, it's the same content with new rewards. Probably not even new rewards (technically speaking), since vMA and vDSA weapons had these 1-piece bonuses in the past.

Crunkanaut

bharathitman wrote: »

I am not playing another RNG game with vMA ever again, it has sucked 100s of hours from my life. If there is a really good software reason for not migrating the weapons (which as an engineer, I don't think there is one) there has to be another compromise that respects the time / mats / stones spent in vMA.

cant upgrade the weapons because spagetti code, they are sooorrryyyy

themaddaedra

T3hasiangod wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

This literally makes no sense. We already need to finish both arenas on Veteran to get our current sets. To get the new Perfected versions, we need to clear the arenas on Veteran. So shouldn't we just get our current weapons upgraded to the new Perfected versions?

Honestly, I suspect that you can't do this because you don't know how to do this without possibly breaking the code of the game.

As Code said, it's not that we can't do this. It's that we don't want to do this. Many of us only log in to raid because there's nothing else for us to do in the game. If this change is to revitalize old content, this isn't how you get old players to play old content...

That's what i first thought as well, but then again they don't have this issue when it comes to things that restrict players (like making two seperate types of same jewellery for Summerset, deconable and undeconable). So the answer is more like: idk lol

technohic

mav1234 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Guys, relax. We haven't seen the patch notes yet. Sounds like this is just small, out of context details to just give us the heads up. Don't worry. I'm sure the big picture is much worse.

the sad thing is, I love all the changes,

right up until I found out that if I want to actually have good vMA weapons again, I have to spend the next X weeks of my life farming them on 5 characters again.

I like giving the built in crit resist in battle spirit, but they miss by reducing the value of impen gear if it leaves seasoned players in a spot where they need to reform or transmute all their gear.

I like that they are trying to address super tankiness, but I think healing is not it as CP adds to part of it along with the other sources of mitigation that gives flat percent resists .

Those might be fine if they were not already dancing around a veteran community that's already fed up with performance issues. Stirring them up when they are already swarming is bad. But then they add in the vMA stuff and I am sure there are going to be a lot of other gear nerfs that they just gave a couple of examples of.

This stuff is not going to land well.

blkjag

You guys just love pissing off the end game community or what?

Moridin_82

Add a npc that trade old vma wpn for New ones

tmbrinks

$10 says they "walk back" this change due to "player feedback" and this is a ploy so they can say "Hey, we listen to player feedback!"

NK656

This is hilarious, it's like this is the game for you; making some absolutely stupid comment like that, and expecting a positive reaction. The vast majority of the comments are entirely directed at Wheeler's comment over anything else listed. Why won't you update old weapons? You've changed set bonuses in the past, hell you've even removed bonuses off of Maelstrom weapons before, but now that you want to add them back suddenly it's too much work for you? Who actually said "Yes please!, I want to re-farm Maelstrom and Dragonstar all over again, it would be SUPER fun and enjoyable."

Reminder to buy more Crown Crates and Houses that cost more than the game itself.

WrathOfInnos

Lol at some of the comments here. Nobody’s weapons are being “downgraded”, they will be the same as before patch in name and function. Nobody is being “forced” to farm the new version, it will be a very small difference especially on the most commonly used back bar weapons (vMA Inferno and bow).

It’s also not a matter of returning the extra set bonuses these weapons once had. Back when they had these, you could not apply an enchant to the weapon. The extra set bonus was removed when they became enchantable (without removing the primary effect), for most builds this meant giving up one back bar set bonus to gain a Berserker enchant (452 Weapon and Spell Damage with infused). The previous change to remove the set bonus was a buff, and the new change to add them back is again a buff (this one just requires a little effort from the players).

These reactions are why we can’t have nice things. The devs are not aiming to give us a gift of free DPS buffs, they are trying to revitalize content that is largely dead (when was the last time anyone ran Dragonstar?), while hopefully increasing build diversity with some new viable gear options (Master or Maelstrom Daggers coming back?). Make use of the opportunity or don’t, it doesn’t really matter.

mav1234

technohic wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Guys, relax. We haven't seen the patch notes yet. Sounds like this is just small, out of context details to just give us the heads up. Don't worry. I'm sure the big picture is much worse.

the sad thing is, I love all the changes,

right up until I found out that if I want to actually have good vMA weapons again, I have to spend the next X weeks of my life farming them on 5 characters again.

I like giving the built in crit resist in battle spirit, but they miss by reducing the value of impen gear if it leaves seasoned players in a spot where they need to reform or transmute all their gear.

I like that they are trying to address super tankiness, but I think healing is not it as CP adds to part of it along with the other sources of mitigation that gives flat percent resists .

Those might be fine if they were not already dancing around a veteran community that's already fed up with performance issues. Stirring them up when they are already swarming is bad. But then they add in the vMA stuff and I am sure there are going to be a lot of other gear nerfs that they just gave a couple of examples of.

This stuff is not going to land well.

honestly, healing needed a nerf overall. there are certain classes that may need a buff in response, but healing overall is too strong. that said, I don't thinks this change will actually do much to change the tanky meta. but glad they are trying to do something, and that it is not a monumental change, but 10%.

Honestly, I like the crit resist change overall, and I have less problem with vet players needing to farm / re-craft gear that has the impen trait, than the vMA change. Yes, both are time sinks, but the vMA change is frustrating because vMA drops were such rng frustration in the first place. Farming transmute stones isn't *fun*, but at least it is controlled and, frankly, relatively easy.

xaraan

[snip]

If upcoming changes to this game are going to focus on "how can we cater to players that want the game easy as can be and earn everything with minimal effort while we screw over all vet players that have worked for their earnings" then what reason do those of us that have played this game have to stick around? Why give you my money? It's obviously not good enough compared to some new players money that is more ripe for screwing over multiple times I guess.

The idea of having to refarm the same horrible content (and yes, MA is terrible, not because it's hard, because it's just not good - it's not even that hard. Don't care if some of you think it's the bees knees.) Do you know how many trial players hate running certain trials just because of how boring and poorly designed they are to redo constantly? We can't get half of our vets to run Sunspire anymore the trial is so blah. That's Maelstrom. And combine that with the horrible RNG in this game forcing you into that same boring grind to finish a set. BUT NOW, let's go back and say all your hard work was for nothing guys. Now you can redo that same boring grind to get the same perfected gear we took away from you a couple years ago because all your old veteran gear is going to be downgraded to normal.

Well, congrats zos, I've been waiting for the straw that broke the camels back from you guys. Just more irritated I already pre-bought Greymoor.

[edited for bashing]

zarocco26

Other than frustrating players, what is the point of making us farm VMA again? This is beyond ridiculous, and literally ruined Greymore for me. New expansion is supposed to be an exciting time in a mmo, but the combat team is ruining this one. So I get to grind 4 year old content, that isn’t even particularly challenging anymore, instead of enjoying the new content? I’m glad I didn’t preorder, since instead of playing Skyrim, I get to spend the next few months grinding Wrothgar again. I guess instead of paying more money, I have to grind stale, easy content...wonderful

pod88kk

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Took me an others over a year of farming VMA to get the inferno staff, now you want me to go and do that all over again? You've got to be kidding!!!!!!

Either adjust the RNG of weapon drops/ introduce a token system or you can say goodbye to this player and I'd think many others also

Jaimeh

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

What is the reasoning behind this decision @ZOS_BrianWheeler? We've farmed for these weapons doing the veteran mode of the arenas, why on earth won't they be upgraded to the perfected version, since the perfected versions will also drop from veteran mode? There's only two explanation I can think of, and they are both terrible: 1) you can't change the weapons technically, which I'm not buying, and 2) you want people to spend time grinding to keep them playing more, despite the RNG nature of the weapon drops, for which people have been complaining for years, and asking for a token system. Also, besides time spent farming, we've used transmute crystals, and upgrade materials, so we 'll have to do this again, just to get the same exact weapon at the end. It doesn't add up. This a very bad, and very hostile towards players, decision, please reconsider it.

regime211

So no changes to Snipe? When it legit Desyncs you and has you sliding on the floor? Or better yet when you LOS and it still follows you into a keep or behind a rock? I love the direction this game has been going..might as well put a rocket launcher in the game as a new weapon skill line as well.

Greevir

I look forward to running vDSA 100x to get a perfected Master Resto staff! Oh wait, no one runs a healer in vDSA anymore...

OWLTHEMAD

Thats kind of absurd. I liked vma the first 80 times i did it, not sure id want to do it another 80 times just to get the flame staff. And dsa with all the bugs is a several hour commitment.

Then considering the ease of normal maelstrom for the amount of power you obtain when completed, I would expect them to nerf the heck out of the normal versions too.

I like the idea of adding perfected ver sions bug not upgrading the ones we have is insulting

The more i hear about the changes this chapter the more bummed i get. I was really excited too.

Its like rather than getting to play new content and use new and interesting tools, im having to regrind old content just so i can fix the stuff that zos arbitrarily decided to break or make obsolete.

llElLoboll

It is absolutely astounding how many good ideas have such horrible implementation. The essential reverting of bonuses taken away from vet vma/dsa weapons to bring them back in line with newer "special" weapons is amazing. The fact the devs can't realize on their own that making everyone refarm them all again is going to be met with huge backlash, kinda par for the course these days.

John_Falstaff

I do not have problems with farming new weapons. [snip] Thank you, @ZOS_BrianWheeler , for showing how little ZOS cares about the time I've invested into running content. You really hate your established player community, don't you. You've changed (and renamed) sets before, you have every technical possibility to rename current weapons to perfected and modify their bonuses, so no point denying by now that this is a premeditated, calculated slap in the face of vet players and attempt to make people re-run already stale, outdated content without investing any effort into refreshing it at least to provide any other incentive than bonuses you yourself took from us before.

It's not a problem with farming gear. [snip] No point being surprised that so many people despise you so much and feel so little attachment to the game; ZOS does everything to make investing time into anything other than housing a Very Bad Idea. Invest time into getting something, and you can be sure you'll get a slap in your face a patch or two down the road. When game starts providing such experiences, it's time to find new game.

[edited for bashing]

naga.

At most, I went into vDSA once in the last year. I only go into vMA to get an easy 9 transmutes per character each week. Beyond this, there's not much point for me doing either arena since I have a 60-slot coffer of vMA, vDSA and vBRP weapons. While not all of them have the right traits, I could easily equip a few characters with minimal effort.

I have absolutely no intention of refarming all that crap because you want to appeal to people who have been moaning they have been locked out from obtaining some gear. This is utterly pointless since after a few weeks, a couple of months tops, they will start playing the exact same tune. You don't exactly have to be competent to figure this out. This makes me think that maybe the entire point of this is to lock all end-game players into solo instances for a few weeks or months while you address the current instancing issues. Nobody's going to complain about Olms breathing or doing storm of heavens mid-flight, if we're all stuck refarming vMA.

Either upgrade existing weapons or introduce a hard mode version of MA so that obtaining the perfected versions of the weapons makes old content feel like a challenge again. Otherwise, for the love of ESO, consider a career change.

blkjag

You guys had to know you were kicking the hornets nest with this one. I mean c’mon

Phreeki

All but a few of the people i used to play with have quit this game because of ZoS and their craptastic changes to this game. So do i just Pug the new vDSA?
Tell me @ZOS_BrianWheeler have you ever even completed vDSA? Have you ever run it with randoms AND completed it in a reasonable amount of time?

I echo the sentiments of others in this thread "As if there were not enough reasons to stop playing this game."
This change is short sighted and ignorant, it's like you have never even played this game.

carlos424

Why not have the “regular” version give lower stats than the current. Leave the current alone, then add stats for the new versions completed on vet? Basically, you would have 3 tiers. Seems like a fair trade off.

macsmooth

With the actual real life time spent in that place getting every weapon that I needed and the pain that was endured doing it, I have been trying to find a reason to buy the next chapter and this just isn’t going to make me spend money to have to go through that place again not to mention I actually don’t have the real life time to commit to that content again, never thought I would type it but it may just be time

This decision it just not going to be cool with anyone

All they have to do is run a script that changes every current weapon to perfected and then any subsequent weapon obtained in the level difficulty is at its new state after that update it’s not difficult to do

LiquidPony

blkjag wrote: »

You guys had to know you were kicking the hornets nest with this one. I mean c’mon

Well yeah but then they can later "change their minds" and everyone will be happy and complain less about the rest of the garbage updates that will inevitably be in this patch.

Env_t

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

thanks for this! i welcome this decigion
and i like it

transmute system fit well too, dont listen to this whiney players, keep going!

BrotherSpark

I've spent thousands of hours and thousands of dollars on ESO and my reward is they perma-nerf my stamblade and then MAKE ME RUN MAELSTROM ARENA ANOTHER TWO HUNDRED TIMES???

There's a neat fix for this, you can cancel ESO Plus and delete ESO, but I guess the joke's on me, [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Flaminir

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Lol at some of the comments here. Nobody’s weapons are being “downgraded”, they will be the same as before patch in name and function. Nobody is being “forced” to farm the new version, it will be a very small difference especially on the most commonly used back bar weapons (vMA Inferno and bow).

It’s also not a matter of returning the extra set bonuses these weapons once had. Back when they had these, you could not apply an enchant to the weapon. The extra set bonus was removed when they became enchantable (without removing the primary effect), for most builds this meant giving up one set bonus to gain a Berserker enchant (452 Weapon and Spell Damage with infused). The previous change to remove the set bonus was a buff, and the new change to add them back is again a buff (this one just requires a little effort from the players).

These reactions are why we can’t have nice things. The devs are not aiming to give us a gift of free DPS buffs, they are trying to revitalize content that is largely dead (when was the last time anyone ran Dragonstar?), while hopefully increasing build diversity with some new viable gear options (Master or Maelstrom Daggers coming back?). Make use of the opportunity or don’t, it doesn’t really matter.

You can call it a downgrade, or a shifting of goalposts, it doesn't really matter... the end result is that they are putting in an unprecedented change that has almost universal fierce disapproval for no clear benefit for anybody, or the health of the game.

Its not like the endgame community is in a good place at the minute anyway, and this is taking a change that could be positive (Imperfect versions, bringing players into that content) and totally ruining it.

RangeRaider

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

We’d like to take a moment to share a preview of combat updates coming with Update 26 (Greymoor). The full list of changes will be revealed with the patch notes next week, but for now we’d like to provide some insight on our goals. This update is primarily focused on reinforcing itemization standards, improving quality of life for werewolves, and a few adjustments regarding PvP balance. As many of you are already aware, the team recently experimented with some significant changes to Light and Heavy Attacks. We’d like to again thank everyone who participated in the off-cycle PTS test of those changes, and remind you all that those changes will not be included with Update 26. Today, we’ll be focusing on the other changes that will be appearing next week on the PTS for Update 26.

U26 not only has Vampire updates, but Werewolf updates as well! We want to keep the “in your face” action of the Werewolf and also want to add rotation options when you’ve transformed into this ferocious form. For example, Pounce now has a follow up attack afterwards that also has an execute scaled on Bleed. We’re also making adjustments to allow buffing and debuffing to give a sense of being a pack leader. Sustain for werewolves is also something we noted needs an adjustment, so Hircine’s Bounty now has some added functionality if you’re already at full health and don’t need the heal from the ability. We believe these changes will keep the Werewolf playstyle competitive and entertaining for all players!

About a year ago, we started our standardization pass and we’re finishing that off in U26 with Monster Masks/Shoulders. Remember standards aren’t written in stone, but we now have equal measures of power and performance from these 2 piece sets; some are having their 1 piece adjusted to better suit the function of the set. Valkyn Skoria, for example, now gives Spell Penetration rather than Max Health as this is a damage-based set.

Other sets are receiving functionality adjustments (damage values, trigger conditions, cooldowns, etc.) to follow their intended functionality based on their sourcing. A good example of this is Tremorscale: enemies hit by the damaging effect of this ability are no longer snared, but instead have their Physical Resistance reduced. To help with performance, some sets are having their “chance to proc” removed and instead now have a cooldown. Again, we’ll look at Tremorscale as an example: we are removing the proc chance from this set and increasing the cooldown damage. Note that because the cooldown is increasing, the damage is also increasing.

Continuing on itemization, we are also introducing Perfected Veteran Maelstrom and Perfected Dragonstar Arena weapons. This has been a long standing request by the players, and it finally brings these two arenas up to par with others that add Perfected versions. These are earned by completing Veteran mode in each of those arenas and will have additional bonuses much like other Perfected sets. Completing Maelstrom or Dragonstar Arena will now grant Blue versions of the non-perfected weapons from these arenas. In this pass, we are making a few adjustments to ALL Arena weapons to meet standards. One example of this is the BRP weapon set Spectral Cloak: this item set now increases your damage done and reduces your damage taken whenever you deal damage with Blade Cloak, rather than granting Major Protection for 3 seconds after casting. This fits the concept of Blade cloak as it deals with damage as well as protection.

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

I want to see some of the requests for perfected maelstrom weapons. Why the hell do our maelstrom weapons arent getting upgraded. I want a reason for that.