The skill gap is too great due to twitch-based reflex type combat like weaving and animation cancel.

Knowledge

colossalvoids

No, the skill gap is fine.

If you're trying to push your opinions this way just make one post and not myriads of not well though out polls.

Bradyfjord

No, the skill gap is fine.

Combat in eso is built on fast paced action combat. The limit of one's ability is resource management. Skill gap will always exist, but that doesn't mean there aren't things to improve on.

What I really want is for the game to work well when lots of players are gathered in large groups for pve or pvp. I think this will allow for the developers to have a more reasonable baseline to guage the player skill gap. I think this due to some of us not being fully aware of opponents (pvp/pve) are doing, and so cannot react or plan for it.

Lumenn

Your title confuses me. You speak of skill, then mindless twitch reflex that people practice over and over like a waltz. 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4. I suppose mindless muscle memory can be a "skill" but in my mind the skill is in planning your gear, abilities, and knowing which combinations to use. The "twitch" is just flipping the switch.

NinchiTV

The game has never been slower. What do you mean twitch reflex? Weaving and ani cancel were in the game since day one, but since people have the reaction of a sloth they took away that.

TheFM

No, the skill gap is fine.

2 button presses per 1 second is far FAR from twitch based combat. That tic toc you hear on an old school clock. Thats how fast we weave. And that is not quick at all.

Dusk_Coven

Allowing the use of an unintended combat feature instead of ZOS calling it what it is -- an exploit of programming deficiency -- led this to this debacle. Probably the worst combat design decision they ever made. Their short-sightedness has had repercussions ever since and is slowly coming to a head now.

Wihuri

No, the skill gap is fine.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Allowing the use of an unintended combat feature instead of ZOS calling it what it is -- an exploit of programming deficiency -- led this to this debacle. Probably the worst combat design decision they ever made. Their short-sightedness has had repercussions ever since and is slowly coming to a head now.

Would you prefer waiting every time a light attack goes off so that it can finish it's animation and then you would be able to activate an ability? So you would choose whether to use another light attack or use an ability? You think that would be a fun game?

Starlock

I mean, yes, but the true measure of skill in this game isn't your reflexes. It's how much creativity you put into designing your characters and not looking like a walking fashion abomination. Priorities, people! Sheesh!

Sanguinor2

No, the skill gap is fine.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Allowing the use of an unintended combat feature instead of ZOS calling it what it is -- an exploit of programming deficiency -- led this to this debacle. Probably the worst combat design decision they ever made. Their short-sightedness has had repercussions ever since and is slowly coming to a head now.

Something the Devs want us to use cannot be an exploit.

idk

No, the skill gap is fine.

colossalvoids wrote: »

If you're trying to push your opinions this way just make one post and not myriads of not well though out polls.

Every aspect of the poll is based and therefore worthless. Not to mention the OP is woefully ill-informed.

If you want to get Zos' attention then a well-thought constructive reply is the answer. We have seen that as they have replied to the best suggestion made during the past week and probably ignore rants and other nonconstructive threads like this.

xXMeowMeowXx

No, the skill gap is fine.

How much more do you want ESO to be dumbed down, Cx??

So you want a competitive game that is not competitive. Plus, you’re upset that people who have played the game longer than you and bothered to get better, are better than you

Seems like you just want people to punished with a boring combat system for being good at a game.

idk

No, the skill gap is fine.

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

How much more do you want ESO to be dumbed down, Cx??

So you want a competitive game that is not competitive. Plus, you’re upset that people who have played the game longer than you and bothered to get better, are better than you

Seems like you just want people to punished with a boring combat system for being good at a game.

Changing LA/basic attacks is not really dumbing down the game. We did not see it as a great change to combat when Zos buffed LAs back in Morrowind. Heck, top raiders that adjusted to the change just fine thought the change back then was a dumb idea. Just being real about it.

Jeremy

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

How much more do you want ESO to be dumbed down, Cx??

So you want a competitive game that is not competitive. Plus, you’re upset that people who have played the game longer than you and bothered to get better, are better than you

Seems like you just want people to punished with a boring combat system for being good at a game.

Weaving is still useful and worthwhile to do. To be honest: this change is mostly just a nerf to builds that relied on heavy attacks for resource gain more than anything else. Most tanks (probably healers too) are not going to like this change, I can promise you that. It's another one of those changes that just assumes everyone is playing a DPS character and spends all their time weaving attack combos.

Ri_Khan

"Skills" lol

jadarock

No, the skill gap is fine.

Stop trying to turn this into a turn based game dam it!

IndianaJames7

No, the skill gap is fine.

A wide skill gap is good imo, it gives incentive to get better and learn the game. It also means that there is challenging content available to everyone, regardless of skill level.

Cage_Lizardman

No, the skill gap is fine.

The DPS gap could use some work though, and bash weaving should go away quietly.

carlos424

No, the skill gap is fine.

“Twitch based, reflex-type?” Lol. Every skill has a second cool down. You cannot push buttons/keys as fast as you can. That’s not how this works.

carlos424

No, the skill gap is fine.

Jeremy wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

How much more do you want ESO to be dumbed down, Cx??

So you want a competitive game that is not competitive. Plus, you’re upset that people who have played the game longer than you and bothered to get better, are better than you

Seems like you just want people to punished with a boring combat system for being good at a game.

Weaving is still useful and worthwhile to do. To be honest: this change is mostly just a nerf to builds that relied on heavy attacks for resource gain more than anything else. Most tanks (probably healers too) are not going to like this change, I can promise you that. It's another one of those changes that just assumes everyone is playing a DPS character and spends all their time weaving attack combos.

ZOS can say all they want about skill gaps and apm or whatever as the reason for this change. The truth is all about money. They simply want to sell the new chapter. All the new sets 5th piece bonuses require heavy attacks. Lol. It’s the same thing they did to the iceheart monster set. They nerf one thing and offer the shiny new thing for sale. $$$$$

Jeremy

carlos424 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

How much more do you want ESO to be dumbed down, Cx??

So you want a competitive game that is not competitive. Plus, you’re upset that people who have played the game longer than you and bothered to get better, are better than you

Seems like you just want people to punished with a boring combat system for being good at a game.

Weaving is still useful and worthwhile to do. To be honest: this change is mostly just a nerf to builds that relied on heavy attacks for resource gain more than anything else. Most tanks (probably healers too) are not going to like this change, I can promise you that. It's another one of those changes that just assumes everyone is playing a DPS character and spends all their time weaving attack combos.

ZOS can say all they want about skill gaps and apm or whatever as the reason for this change. The truth is all about money. They simply want to sell the new chapter. All the new sets 5th piece bonuses require heavy attacks. Lol. It’s the same thing they did to the iceheart monster set. They nerf one thing and offer the shiny new thing for sale. $$$$$

You might be right. All I know is their proposed reasoning for this change - to reduce the skill gap between high APM players and low APM players - just doesn't add up.

Kalik_Gold

No, the skill gap is fine.

Game is fine as is. But good players will adjust to whatever changes Zos makes.

Red_Feather

I've seen popular pve streamers fall apart when they stream themselves trying pvp. Like suddenly resorting to spamming light attacks.

Weaving is a robotic muscle memory thing.

Knowledge

Yes, I think the skill gap is too great and should be addressed

Red_Feather wrote: »

I've seen popular pve streamers fall apart when they stream themselves trying pvp. Like suddenly resorting to spamming light attacks.

Weaving is a robotic muscle memory thing.

I see the same.

Nomadic_Atmoran

No, the skill gap is fine.

Sometimes I can't help but feel anti-animation canceling peeps are the people that can't get the rotations down, get flustered, claim it has to be an exploit to do this, and then rage about cheaters instead of just accepting that they suck.

Everest_Lionheart

No, the skill gap is fine.

No problem with skill gaps no matter how large so long as the high skilled players are doing it legitimately. Having played, coached and refereed competitive sports for years one thing I’ve learned is that the cream always rises to the top and there is a clear gap from the best to all of the rest.

The great equalizer is practice, the most talented aren’t always top tier in these areas, but the people working hard and always practicing and tweaking almost always surpass them eventually. The same is true of games. I see streamers in many games that are average at best. They understand how to play but never really put in enough to break through to that next level and that’s OK because streaming has other responsibilities that get in the way of playing the game at that level.

Anyway players that have been putting in that effort deserve that clear advantage over the rest of us. I can’t fault anyone for the gap other than myself. I can always get better.

graybeardII

Yes, I think the skill gap is too great and should be addressed

The game is what it is but I dont thing because I dont have the finger dexterity of a concert pianist I shoud some how be excluded from content. These old hand have seen a lot of abuse in 59 years. And no I dont want to be cared I want to earn my gear and monster helm's. I came here to run dungens and learn the mechanics not have to worry about how much DPS im doing all the darn time.

xaraan

No, the skill gap is fine.

There is a skill gap, but it can be narrowed with work and practice. I'm an old guy and inexperienced at DPS and have been able to close the gap and hang with the good DPS. Not beat them mind you, but do enough that I'm often in the middle of the DPS pack when looking at logs (even if never at top) and if you cap that off by being good at the mechs, then you can be useful in several other moments in a run on top of just good dps.

Casul

graybeardII wrote: »

The game is what it is but I dont thing because I dont have the finger dexterity of a concert pianist I shoud some how be excluded from content. These old hand have seen a lot of abuse in 59 years. And no I dont want to be cared I want to earn my gear and monster helm's. I came here to run dungens and learn the mechanics not have to worry about how much DPS im doing all the darn time.

There are plenty of setups that can reach adequate DPS using a heavy attack rotation. Just because someone is unable to utilize light attack weaving doesn't mean we should get dragged down as a result. I didn't work my way from the bottom (first 300k dummy parse was 6k) to the top (42-45k on 6 mil self buff no healer, which honestly is low to be considered "top") to have someone (not you specifically) tell me that I'm abusing a mechanic that is not even hard to learn. Regardless if someone can't use it, then they shouldn't expect to complete content that requires it. Which honestly unless you are going for vet trial HM completions you won't even be disadvantaged in the slightest. Virtually all vet dungeons can be handled with 30k DPS. I believe most Vet trials require 35K (experts can chime in here if I'm wrong). Both are achievable with a heavy attack rotation

JanTanhide

No, the skill gap is fine.

Malarkey.

graybeardII

Yes, I think the skill gap is too great and should be addressed

Ok first I never said any thing about abusing any mechanic weaving and ac are part of the game. And I struggle with them daily. Around 24k on a 3m dummey if your interested. But if I was to show up in a vBrF with a 35k dps and a heavy attack rotation I'd be kicked after the first boss even if my dps was sufficient and you know it (oops that came out kinda harsh sorry) but there it is. As you said vet dungens can be done with less dps but theres (so much) emphases put on high dps that if your not flawless your not wanted even by guildys. The question was asked if I thought the gap is to big and I do.You say its easy to make 30 to 45k dps maybe for you who has 2 working hands Im not asking to all of a sudden be doing top dps,doing speed runs and hm no death that's not realistic im aking for the gap to close just enough for people like me to be wanted in vet runs not thought of as a flower picker.Oh and I could give a rip about leader boards and skins and weather or not your better than me my interest is making friends having fun runing the more challenging not the most challenging content and as stated before learning the dungon machines where Imo the real skill (should) lay not weather or not you can do 80k dps. Then maybe topics like this wouldn't get so hostile and the dungen finder would run a little more smothly