How the LA/HA changes fail to fulfill ZOS's stated goals and what could be done instead?

Elsonso

SilverKatz wrote: »

Good thoughs about the changes.
But i dont think ZOS care about player feedbacks....
We are just waisting time .

They do care. I have seen it in action because I have been in a position to witness it. However, they have some sort of phobia about communication that prevents them from showing any affection at all about player feedback. That makes them look cold and impersonal, when they are not.

Thoragaal

Elsonso wrote: »

They do care. I have seen it in action because I have been in a position to witness it. However, they have some sort of phobia about communication that prevents them from showing any affection at all about player feedback. That makes them look cold and impersonal, when they are not.

I think the Devs care.
But I don't think it's "the suits" priority.

Elsonso

Thoragaal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

They do care. I have seen it in action because I have been in a position to witness it. However, they have some sort of phobia about communication that prevents them from showing any affection at all about player feedback. That makes them look cold and impersonal, when they are not.

I think the Devs care.
But I don't think it's "the suits" priority.

That, I cannot speak to. I guess that it is the "Producers" that make all the really important decisions, like what they spend money on. They sound sincere to me, but I have not seen that they are. Of course, they have to make tough decisions, too. They don't have an bottomless bucket of money, but they do have a wide variety of things to spend it on and they need to do that wisely.

Pip3dr3ams

This seems to be the only consistent thing about Zos. Consistently pulling random numbers and ideas out, to either nerf or increase players. I agree with the OP about 95%. There is a skill gap and steps should be taken to narrow that skill gap. However these changes do the opposite of what Zos intended and will ultimately hurt all players whilst maintaining the skill gap that exists, if not increasing it. I do however dislike that it seems that Zos is punishing the players that have taken the time to practice and learn the play style of the game to achieve the dps that they do to allow them to clear the hardest end game content. These players are the loyal player base that pay to play this game we all love and, that spent years to practice and learn the game to get to the level that they are at. Catering to lower skill level players that are not willing to put the effort in or just want things handed to them because it is "too hard" by nerfing content and dps is not the way to go.

A suggestion: instead of these drastic changes every 3 months that force us all to go through tedious grinds, build changes and learn new rotations. Let the game be and deliver some of the promises that have already been put forward to us, eg; "performance update" my performance is significantly worse since this update. I have, along with others, issues of LA/abilities not firing, longer or endless load screens and lower frame rates and higher ping. I wont begin to get into class identity....StamDK RIP!

Please listen to the feedback from the OP and all that have posted regarding this topic.
Thanks

Shantu

This has been said before and bears repeating. Just boost the hell out of heavy attack damage and their relative builds, and leave everything else alone. The fast APM crowd keeps their high DPS. The low APM group gets enough of a boost in damage compete in harder content. The best stay the best. The worst get a lot better. Result: Floor raised, skill gap decreased, ceiling remains the same. Everyone is happy. Why is this so hard to understand?

Dubhliam

No matter what kind of changes go through, they should never be so drastic to completely rework a basic and fundamental game mechanic,

One of the basic guiding thought that come to my mind is:
Casual players don't follow changes as well as full time players.

This was very apparent in the Morrowind fiasco, and it will be even more if these proposed changes go live.
There are players that to-this-day run around in Night Mother and Hunding, with Caltrops backbar.
WHY?
Because there are tons of guides online, of various degrees of outdated variants that have had these kinds of builds.
And casual players don't look up guides each and every update.
They build their character that one time, and that is it.
They are here to play, not to theorycraft and follow every single change ZOS chunks at them in 3 month increments.

Hell, even long term players are exhausted from last year swing changes, many are very hesitant to come back to the game.

Basically, don't make drastic gameplay changes, it will never sit well with any of your players.

Jeremy

code65536 wrote: »

Note: This a repost of post #222 of the official discussion thread.

---

I want to start off by saying that I am in complete 100% agreement with the "mission statement" of these PTS changes. Specifically, the following paragraph:

There are, however, several drawbacks to this model as well. First, it tends to reward players for pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible. Players with high Actions Per Minute (APM) significantly outperform those with low APM, as they have better up-time of abilities, higher mitigation, much higher DPS, and can simply move around the battlefield better in both PVE and PVP. While we believe it’s good to have a skill gap that promotes mastery, we also believe the gap as it currently exists is too wide, and that many players aren’t finding satisfaction in the climb. Additionally, we believe the over-reliance on a specific mechanic (light attack weaving) leaves less room for playstyle diversity, including lower-APM options. This is particularly evident in veteran content and PvP. Finally, the concept of using light attacks for damage and heavy attacks for restore is, quite simply, unintuitive – especially for less experienced players.

I agree with all of this, and I agree that something needs to be done, and I applaud ZOS for taking action. But I strongly dislike the solution that is being tried out here.

I consider that the two overall goals here are:

1. Reducing the effect of the skill gap. To be clear, it is good to have a skill gap. The amount by which that skill gap translates into power is the thing that needs some adjustment.
2. Making light and heavy attacks more intuitive.

PART 1: ADDRESSING THE POWER GAP

First, as a broad generalization, I like to think about players being put into three categories.

1. Players who mostly use their basic weapon attacks. The so-called "light-attack spammers" or "heavy-attack spammers".
   • Keep in mind that in most games, your basic weapon attacks--e.g., pointing and shooting your gun--is the primary way you do damage and that abilities are things that you cast every now and then to augment that damage or for utility. In ESO, abilities make up most of your damage and basic weapon attacks augment that damage, which can be counter-intuitive for someone who's used to, say, shooters, but is new to ESO, so it's perfectly understandable to see a new player just doing "light-attack spam" because that's kinda natural, if you think about it.
2. Players who use abilities and try to weave them, but aren't very good at it. This might be due to a lack of practice. Or, in many cases, people simply aren't able to; e.g., for older players, it can even be a little physically painful. When we look at people's DPS parses, the first thing we look at is their LA/s rate. And if it's something like 0.5, we'd say, "You need to light-attack more"; i.e., get better at weaving. I myself am only around 0.7 LA/s. I can't hit the 0.8 or 0.9+ LA/s that elite players can get, and I probably will never get there; I have my limits.
3. Elite players who have very high APM, whose rotations are fast and fluid and who don't miss their LA-weaves.

So how do the proposed changes affect each of these skill tiers?

Based on my testing on the PTS, someone who just spams heavy attacks will get a modest boost to their damage. Heavy attack damage has been increased by a modest amount, and the cast times have been reduced a little. The end result, based on some quick casual testing on the PTS is a small increase in the ballpark of around 10-20%. For someone spamming light attacks, well, it's not pretty. The fight duration tripled, so the DPS was cut by around 2/3 (less than the 78% nominal nerf because of damage from things like weapon enchantments).

I don't think that these changes help the proverbial "floor". On Live, both heavy-attack spam and light-attack spam does similar amounts of overall DPS. On the PTS, heavy-attack spam was mildly buffed, while light-attack spam was thrown into the gutter. I don't see how this helps the "floor". At all. If anything, I would argue that these changes hurt them more than it helps them, as it strips away combat options and forces these kinds of players into using only heavy attacks.

But what about the "middle class"? What about the people who try to weave abilities, but aren't able to do so that well? The amount of resource return from light attacks is immense. Without the CP buff, it's equivalent to about 400 regen for someone who weaves perfectly. Obviously, it's more once you figure in Tenacity. So while missing light attacks won't result in as much of a direct loss of damage, it still represents a significant indirect loss of damage because that sustain can be translated into damage. Choosing bi-stat food over regen food. Picking a "damage" race like Orc instead of a "sustain" race like Redguard. Using a "damage" set like New Moon Acolyte instead of a "sustain" set like Vicious Ophidian. But these kinds of shifts away from other sources of sustain will be available only to people who can weave well.

For the "upper class", yes, it's an outright nerf to power. That can be somewhat compensated for by shifting their builds further away from sustain.

But what does this do for the power gap between the "middle class" and the "upper class". Both groups will be hit hard by this, and it's not clear that they will be affected in a way that reduces the relative power gap.

And so I would like to take a moment now to talk about the Morrowind combat changes. Back when those changes were made, @ZOS_RichLambert said on ESO Live that they had two goals with the Morrowind combat changes. First, they wanted people to think about sustain again. And second, they wanted to reduce the power gap. Well, these changes seem to fly in the face of the notion that sustain should be relevant. But more importantly, the Morrowind combat changes increased the power gap between players. Yes, the sustain nerfs hit the power of the "upper class" hard. But it also hit the "middle class" even more. If you think about it, when resources are tight, then players who are more efficient at resource usage will have an advantage. Instead of using a dynamic rotation, are you using an easy static rotation that results in a couple of DoTs being recast a little early? That's wasted resources. Did you accidentally step into red and thus need to cast a self-heal to compensate for your mistake? That's wasted resources. Did you miss a light attack and thus miss out on its resource-free damage? That's less damage per resource spent.

Can you say, without any doubt, that these light/heavy attack changes will hurt the "upper class" more than it hurts the "middle class"? If not, then you're not actually closing the power gap, and this will be a repeat of the Morrowind fiasco.

But hey there's more to this game than just DPS! What about something like PvE tanking? A lot of tanking is about resource management. Wouldn't it be great if, as a tank, you could get stamina as you light-weave everything? It would trivialize resource management! Hooray! But oh wait, that means you have to drop block to weave every ability instead of block-casting, and if you're a new tank or even an experienced tank who's tanking new unfamiliar content, that's pretty darn risky. So what this means is that experienced tanks can get easy resource management, but beginner tanks who are told, "when in doubt, hold block" can't reap the benefits of this. And of course, if a tank needs an emergency injection of stamina, the old option of getting a burst of about 2.8K stamina from a single 0.8s heavy attack channel is gone. All of this simply punishes less experienced players and dramatically increase the effects of the skill gap.


PART 2: LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS SHOULD BE INTUITIVE

You're right: Heavy attacks restoring resources, while light attacks do not, is not intuitive. But... How on earth is the opposite intuitive?! A new player is going to be just as confused about light-attacks restoring resources as they are with the current arrangement on Live.

So what would be intuitive?

Simple: Stop treating light and heavy attacks differently!

Both light and heavy attacks should restore resources. A light attack should restore a very small, token amount (50?). And heavy attacks should restore the same amount as they do now. And medium attacks should restore somewhere between the two, scaled with the duration of the channel.

That's how you make intuitive mechanics. A heavy attack should just be a heavier, stronger light attack. Period. Don't have some silly nonsense where a light attack restores resources, but if a players holds onto the button for just a fraction of a second too long and it turns into a medium attack, then they get nothing. Don't have some silly nonsense where if someone is charging a heavy attack because they are out of resources, but if they let go of that attack just a fraction of a second too soon and it turns into a medium attack, then they get nothing.

Light attacks should do a modest amount of damage and return a small amount of resources. And heavy attacks should do the same, except more: more damage, more resource return. And medium attacks should scale between the two and do a medium amount of damage and return a medium amount of resources. This is the logical, straightfoward thing to do, and it bewilders me that it doesn't work like this.

A heavy attack is slow and requires a channel, so it should be more rewarding in all aspects. How does "hey, you do more damage as a tradeoff for this annoying channel, but oh no, you don't get any resources back" make any sense?


PART 3: WHAT I WOULD DO IF I WAS A COMBAT DESIGNER

1. Reduce light attack damage. Not by 78%. But by something more modest. 30%?
2. Increase the damage on consecutive (non-weaved) light/medium/heavy attacks.
3. All light attacks restore resources. Something small like 50. (So for someone weaving perfectly, this would be a modest 100 regen.)
4. Keep the current Live levels of heavy attack resource return.
5. Medium attack damage and resource return will be somewhere between that of a light attack and heavy attack, scaling with the duration of the channel.
6. Make Empower affect all basic weapon attacks: light/medium/heavy.
7. Edited to add: Increase the damage of spammable abilities by an amount comparable to the reduction to light attack damage. This would maintain the current power level for people who weave successfully (thus effectively shifting damage from the basic attack to the ability), while increasing the power level for those who miss weaves (they would still do less damage, but the gap would be smaller).

If you look at the current lower-APM options--what people hawk as "easy" builds--they're often light-attack-spam (werewolf) or heavy-attack-spam builds. Let's reinforce these options and make them more effective. That's why I propose increasing the damage from consecutive, non-weaved attacks. Of course, these things should not be too effective that they outclass "high-APM" options (we still want a skill gap!), but they should be more effective than they are now (thus lowering the effect of the skill gap). The increase for non-weaved attacks should more than compensate for the 30% nerf to light attack damage that I am proposing.

As for the "middle class" vs. "upper class", an outright nerf to light attack damage (without adding some secondary effect like a ridiculous 400 regen to perfect weavers) will slightly narrow the gap between the two because it will affect those with higher LA/s more than those with lower LA/s.

And finally, on the consistency/intuitiveness front, it makes no sense to apply a resource return to light attacks but not heavy attacks, just as it makes no sense to do the opposite. What makes sense, though, is for a heavy attack to just be a stronger light attack in every way--in both damage and resource return--as compensation for it being a slow channel.

Ultimately, the end result should be...

1. A raising of the bottom floor, in which people who just spam basic attacks are better off than they are on Live. A buff to consecutive, non-weaved damage will help with this (and should more than compensate for the LA damage nerf) and reinforce the current popular low-APM options. ZOS's proposal doesn't help the floor at all, since a severe nerf to LA damage with no compensation simply serves to deprive the "lower class" of combat options and forces them into only using heavy attacks.
2. A narrowing of the gap between the "middle" and "upper" classes. Reducing the damage of weaved light attacks is the key here. In contrast, ZOS's proposal just replaces the lost direct damage with indirect damage in the form of massive sustain.
3. A system where heavy attacks are more desirable, but not so desirable that people who prefer high APM feel compelled into sluggish heavy-attack rotations. While ZOS's current proposal doesn't quite push people into a HA-meta, it does come dangerously close with that insane 78% damage nerf to LAs.
4. Heavy and medium attacks should be rewarded for their cast times, which not only means more damage, but also more resource return. Be consistent.

Addendum: A number of people have pointed out that having any basic attack return resources is unintuitive in and of itself. And while I'm inclined to agree, I also feel that there needs to be a way for players to actively restore resources if needed, and resource return from basic attacks fit that bill quite well. I elaborate on this in post #89.

I think I agree with most of what you said. These changes do almost nothing to address the necessity of weaving or the advantages of animation of canceling. If anything, it actually makes weaving more necessary. So it's likely to do the exact opposite and make the skill gap even wider.

These changes are really just another sustain nerf from what I can tell. The whole skill gap argument seems more like a disingenuous excuse to me at this point.

Lord_Eomer

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

I like the new changes and may come back play ESO.

Clicking 10 times mouse in a second is bad example of Combat system. Getting rid of light attack meta is a best choice.

Thats not what Zos changes will do. Instead you will have to light attack weave for Sustain since heavies dont restore resources anymore, you´ll just have less Damage doing so.

Huh! Just an excuse who was really doing heavy attack before?

It died long ago, sustain is already good

heaven13

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

I like the new changes and may come back play ESO.

Clicking 10 times mouse in a second is bad example of Combat system. Getting rid of light attack meta is a best choice.

Thats not what Zos changes will do. Instead you will have to light attack weave for Sustain since heavies dont restore resources anymore, you´ll just have less Damage doing so.

Huh! Just an excuse who was really doing heavy attack before?

It died long ago, sustain is already good

Healers and tanks. Lowbies. Heavy attack undaunted infiltrator sorcs. Etc.

mairwen85

Still no response from ZOS on any of the feed back offered here, and greymoor pts looming close. I wonder what their take away from this thread is... Its so far the only alternative proposed that actually achieves what they stated their goal was.

idk

JinMori wrote: »

I think it's a good idea, but i also think that if they are gonna reduce light attack damage, they should give the damage back to abilities to balance it out.

Zos did not take damage from abilities to buff LAs. They took the damage from HAs when they buffed LAs so it makes more sense to return back to the design that makes more sense.

Ashgard23

PART 3: WHAT I WOULD DO IF I WAS A COMBAT DESIGNER
Reduce light attack damage. Not by 78%. But by something more modest. 30%?
Increase the damage on consecutive (non-weaved) light/medium/heavy attacks.
All light attacks restore resources. Something small like 50. (So for someone weaving perfectly, this would be a modest 100 regen.)
Keep the current Live levels of heavy attack resource return.
Medium attack damage and resource return will be somewhere between that of a light attack and heavy attack, scaling with the duration of the channel.
Make Empower affect all basic weapon attacks: light/medium/heavy.
Edited to add: Increase the damage of spammable abilities by an amount comparable to the reduction to light attack damage. This would maintain the current power level for people who weave successfully (thus effectively shifting damage from the basic attack to the ability), while increasing the power level for those who miss weaves (they would still do less damage, but the gap would be smaller).

I agree with some of your proposals,but I do think you are overlooking the main problem...
I was on PTS and I tried heavy attack rotation with weaves for skills and standard light attack rotation.Light attack rotation still does more dmg and now you have even more sustain...
Thats when I was starting to think about it,you reduce light attack dmg by 78%! increase heavy attack dmg by alot and LA still out performs HA?!.I have no idea whay no 1 is mentioning this but a real problem here is weaveing...
You say treat all attacks the same and I agree but HA and MA are governed by same criteria and its CT same goes for non weaved LA.But weaved LA is not in that category it has no CT,it has no cost,you cant even see it and yet it gives all the dmg,procs your ench and now even restore resources...
Its alot of benefits for a free attack.I have no idea whay ZOS are not mentioning this but if they want to close the gap they have to do something about free LA spam.
I agree with you to reward consecutive non weaved attacks.Increased stacking dmg bonus for swords up to 3 times,stacking intensity of bleed dmg for axe and stacking AP for mace all up to 3 max.
I would suggest new heavy attack animation and/or animation packs for consecutive attacks increasing in speed as they progress to 3rd stack.This would make heavy attacks more enjoyable imo.Some weapons have terrible heavy attack animations so ZOS should add new more enjoyable ones like zann effect for fire staff(fire staff frost staff comes to mind).
I agree empower should affect all attacks but not weaved LA,again weave makes problems...
I agree with your proposal of resources gain on all attacks but I would exclude weaved LA from resource gain.
Imo if ZOS wants to close the gap they will have to do something with weaving.Its not just skill as they say in post,it depends heavy on latency and general game responsiveness(PC also)...
DPS I do in my house on dummy with 200 latency and 50fps will never match dmg I do in raid with 600 latency and 10fps...
I am EU player on NA server,been playing from the start and game performance is just going south.So I know how problematic is to weave and even cast skills in raids and AvA.
People who buy the game should be able to experience all the content,because we all pay the same price.Whats the point of adding new dungeons if only small number of players will run them?I love ESO and new players are key to good ESO in the years to come so I trust ZOS will do anything for them to stay and enjoy the game as we all do(mostly hehe...).

Skjaldbjorn

Ashgard23 wrote: »

People who buy the game should be able to experience all the content,because we all pay the same price.Whats the point of adding new dungeons if only small number of players will run them?I love ESO and new players are key to good ESO in the years to come so I trust ZOS will do anything for them to stay and enjoy the game as we all do(mostly hehe...).

@Ashgard23 Here's the thing, yes, players who buy the game deserve to experience the content, for sure. And they can. On normal. If they want to experience vet content, they need to improve. That's not a ridiculous request. Let's take the very object we're all typing on as an example.

Anyone who buys a computer gets to experience computer content. Depending on user knowledge/experience level, that content can change drastically. Should every computer come with a "coding for idiots" program that lets them spew garbage into an IDE and crap out viable code? No. That's a terrible idea.

If you want to code, you learn how. If you want to create video games, you learn how. If you want to get into graphics design, you learn how. Shockingly, you typically pay to learn how, or at least for some of the tools needed. Buying the game is not a free pass to Godslayer or IR or anything of the like.

If you're not willing to put in time/effort to improve, you don't deserve to experience the higher content. It's not a difficult concept.

And that's coming from someone who is very open to bridging the gap and acknowledges the inherent flaws in the current combat system.

Elsonso

mairwen85 wrote: »

Still no response from ZOS on any of the feed back offered here, and greymoor pts looming close. I wonder what their take away from this thread is... Its so far the only alternative proposed that actually achieves what they stated their goal was.

This is likely because they are not doing what they were showing on PTS in Greymoor.

All we have is conspiracy theories to keep us warm at night...

Vaoh

Another important topic to point out is that gaining any form of inherent stacking buffs from light attacks is very weird design, in the context of a new player or TES roleplayer. These sorts of casual questers do not play the game to become all geared up/grind CP for dungeons and trials. They’d like to commit to a fun, first person POV, TES questing experience. Having the most basic mechanics of their experience intruded on with strange balancing behaviors that throw off their damage/stamina/magicka numbers etc is a big turn off from the game.

Everyone liked pre-Morrowind balance better. In essence, sustain was handled through your Cost Reduction, Regeneration Stats, Minor Magickasteal, and Orbs synergies.
• Cost reduction was present on all builds because CP granted access to a great reduction (I believe up to 16% at 100 points). Light Armor and Medium Armor also granted greater Cost reduction than it currently does. The lowered cost of skills empowered the value of Regeneration stats since the resources you gain can be used much more effectively as opposed to Heavy Attack restore.
• Regeneration was the primary stat for PvP builds, because Minor Magickasteal was not as convenient (some builds slotted Ele Drain but mainly for Major Breach) and neither were Orbs synergies. The result was this - builds had to balance between damage, sustain, and tankiness. You couldn’t have it all, and Heavy attacks would barely sustain you. Today’s OP tanks/healbots were not even remotely as powerful back then. Furthermore, Regeneration saw up to a 25% buff from the CP system and Light Armor and Medium Armor granted much greater regeneration % buffs too. If you put on Regeneration glyphs, you were getting significantly more bonus than you currently do. Tri-stat Drinks were used on a lot of builds.
• Minor Magickasteal was helpful in PvE but it did not serve as the absolutely crucial source of Magicka return as it currently does since we could complete far more rotations before running out of Magicka. It was still beneficial though especially for dungeons.
• Orb synergies granted their Magicka return to all allies within a small radius, and because of this it was the primary source of PvE Magicka return especially in trials. You could also cast a lot more skills before you ran out of Magicka since skills costed much less in the first place.

Personally I hope they would go back to this style of gameplay which was a tried and true balancing method. Everyone liked it. No one complained - we had fun, PvP and Endgame PvE were both very popular. ZOS changed it strictly because the Devs wanted gameplay to instead become about “damage phases and regen phases”..... aka you’d do a big burst of damage, then you’d spend your time (I’m not joking) Heavy Attack spamming to get back resources. Heavily negative feedback was given regarding the changes so ZOS ignores us. This caused the big loss of longtime players in Morrowind that anyone who has joined in the past three years has only heard about.

All of these Offbalance and Light Attack resource return changes won’t ever work. It’s overly complicated and not fun. The top-end players will complete content like we always do no matter what. The groups struggling to improve will get punched in the face by drastic changes. There was a working formula back in Homestead so Imo, working toward balancing the game in a similar way to Homestead is the best choice ZOS can make.

Dusk_Coven

Vaoh wrote: »

Another important topic to point out is that gaining any form of inherent stacking buffs from light attacks is very weird design, in the context of a new player or TES roleplayer. These sorts of casual questers do not play the game to become all geared up/grind CP for dungeons and trials. They’d like to commit to a fun, first person POV, TES questing experience. Having the most basic mechanics of their experience intruded on with strange balancing behaviors that throw off their damage/stamina/magicka numbers etc is a big turn off from the game.

I think players, especially new players, are also turned off by bizarre immersion breaking mechanics. Block cancellation and light attack weaving are nonsensical. If monsters did that people would think it ridiculous. In other games if you told someone you discovered a way to squeeze in an attack at no cost and virtually no time, they'd rightly think it some kind of exploit that needs to be reported.

ZOS has a fundamental inability to consider what is intuitive. For example: Woodworking materials don't come from healthy trees -- they come from rotting trunks and driftwood. WTF? You can get more leather than chitin from mudcrabs. WTF? A single carrot from an NPC vendor costs 150 gold and after you cook it in a Provisioning recipe your meal is worth 1 gold. WTF?

ZOS needs to rewind their design process. They are stuck in tweaking-numbers mode when they should be looking at what is reasonable and intuitive first, so that players automatically try to do what they need to do.

Elsonso

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

ZOS needs to rewind their design process. They are stuck in tweaking-numbers mode when they should be looking at what is reasonable and intuitive first, so that players automatically try to do what they need to do.

I will agree with this. The idea of "needed for arbitrary game play decision" always trumps "does what we are doing actually make sense in the bigger picture"

Vaoh

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Another important topic to point out is that gaining any form of inherent stacking buffs from light attacks is very weird design, in the context of a new player or TES roleplayer. These sorts of casual questers do not play the game to become all geared up/grind CP for dungeons and trials. They’d like to commit to a fun, first person POV, TES questing experience. Having the most basic mechanics of their experience intruded on with strange balancing behaviors that throw off their damage/stamina/magicka numbers etc is a big turn off from the game.

I think players, especially new players, are also turned off by bizarre immersion breaking mechanics. Block cancellation and light attack weaving are nonsensical. If monsters did that people would think it ridiculous. In other games if you told someone you discovered a way to squeeze in an attack at no cost and virtually no time, they'd rightly think it some kind of exploit that needs to be reported.

ZOS has a fundamental inability to consider what is intuitive. For example: Woodworking materials don't come from healthy trees -- they come from rotting trunks and driftwood. WTF? You can get more leather than chitin from mudcrabs. WTF? A single carrot from an NPC vendor costs 150 gold and after you cook it in a Provisioning recipe your meal is worth 1 gold. WTF?

ZOS needs to rewind their design process. They are stuck in tweaking-numbers mode when they should be looking at what is reasonable and intuitive first, so that players automatically try to do what they need to do.

@Dusk_Coven That’s not exactly what I was referring too but you are right. To new players, block cancelling and Light Attack weaving are foreign concepts because it’s unique to ESO. Either players will think it’s weird, or it will draw in players. This used to be a smooth, engaging, fast-paced combat system. ESO’s best feature used to be its combat. It’s kinda hard to explain unless you played before the animation changes and also when the game performed way better.

Animation cancelling is in nearly every game so I won’t even start on why trying to take out animation cancelling is nonsensical.

Blockcancelling and Light Attack weaving used to be very smooth. Your character did not do all these weird, jerky motions. For the most part it would skip the light attack animation and instead you’d perform perfectly smooth skill casting. If you block cancelled it was instant, also smooth, and felt great in combat because everything you clicked was happening. There was no such thing as getting self-immobilized when casting Wall of Elements, buttons not activating skills, or characters getting locked up for a sec, or skills failing to cast. CCs always showed instead of having your character stand still+unable to perform actions instead you actually being knocked down when stunned. Everything worked with the exception of a rare CC break during lag that might fail. Theres so many little things that are broken now and no matter what ZOS does, until they fix all these bugs nothing they can do will make the game feel better.

Their number tweaking is also really worrying. ESO is 6 years old and were seeing a 78% Light Attack Damage nerf? And equally drastic DOT buffs/nerfs?? They should have found their balance years ago and introduced new classes each year to spice things up alongside new systems such as Spellcrafting, 3rd morphs, etc. Instead we got two classes, a single new combat skill line, and our classes all heavily reworked in ways no one wanted.