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Please dont que for veteran dungeons if....

  • xXMeowMeowXx
    xXMeowMeowXx
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    shack80 wrote: »
    You are unsure of mechanics
    You are unsure of your own abilities (need to know how to block, dodge roll etc)
    You are not able to handle you class (if you are dd please do damage)

    This will only waste every1s time and the damn que timer sucks. If you want to learn mechanics or if you need to learn how to play the game (do damage and handle you abilities) that is what the guilds are for.

    In my opinion vet que isnt the place where you go when you want to learn to play. It is just frustrating.

    Some1 say that the que is for ppl to learn the game but in my opinion it is the opposite. Guilds are for this. Go for noob friendly guild to get help, not for the que.


    If you’re running puglies then you have no say in anything, except a vote to kick. That is, if you have at least one friend which is doubtful by your post.

    The real question is, if ya so picky why are you not running vet content with a guild? And if you are, then your post is completely moot and meaningless.

    Pfffft
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  • shack80
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    Happy to hear so much actually good comments. I was awaiting of *** but there has been alot of good points.

    Also I think that there are differences with platforms you play on. I play on xbox Eu and first of all it seems really hard to find a group within atleast a decent time and when you finally do it is frustrating to see at the first ad pull that this is a no go and you need to wait like 10 minutes again at the que.

    For example I was tanking vet icereach and it took like 5 minutes for the group to kill the first add pull (dds died like 3 times as did the healer) and I did have agro from all of the adds but it was the ice atronach that was bringing the havoc for the group and this is perfect example why I made this thread.

    Please continue.
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  • r3turn2s3nd3r
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    shack80 wrote: »
    Or you can join a guild yourself and just play with them thus avoiding the queue.

    This I kinda agree, but the thing is that usually when I play all of the guilds are "dead" because of timezones so thats one reason I try the finder.

    Then might I make a suggestion? Why not form a guild of your own and as you come across folks in the group finder that you deem the type you want to run with invite them to said guild and accumulate a cherry picked group of people that you could group with. If they're in the finder at the same time you are it stands to reason that they probably share your schedule.

    But I do have to ask.... What is the point of staying in a guild that is dead at the times you play? Why not find a guild that is better matched to your play times? Surely there're some that exist?
    Edited by r3turn2s3nd3r on March 19, 2020 7:13PM
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  • FierceSam
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    Easier for you to avoid the queues and put a call out in chat for players who meet your exclusive requirements.

    Saves the rest of us from continuing to disappoint you...

    Do you ever complete any content with that kind of an attitude?
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  • JamieAubrey
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    I know I could do Vet dungeons but I wouldn't dare go into one with a pug, as I know I'd let them down, this is why I just do random normal and don't bother with the pledges
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  • shack80
    shack80
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    shack80 wrote: »
    Or you can join a guild yourself and just play with them thus avoiding the queue.

    This I kinda agree, but the thing is that usually when I play all of the guilds are "dead" because of timezones so thats one reason I try the finder.

    But I do have to ask.... What is the point of staying in a guild that is dead at the times you play? Why not find a guild that is better matched to your play times? Surely there're some that exist?

    TBH no, I live at utc +2 and usually ppl play at 08-10pm theyre time and it is 10-12pm mytime and I need to work at mornings.
    It is true that I could make up my own guild but the population here is quite small to play the game on this server. And no I dont want to buy pc or move anywhere :)

    The purpose of the thread is to make discussion what is the right place learning the game, finder or guild. In my opinion it is the guilds. Finder is something you use when you want to play when you can. Guilds are something on where you can arrange time and stuff. And remember... IMHB.


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  • Scion_of_Yggdrasil
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    If you want a certain expectation met, do not use the dungeon finder. Use a guild. Dungeon finder is a public option.

    Exactly what I was going to say. I feel like OP has it switched around...

    And am I the only one who enjoys a dungeon more the first time around? Before I know all the things? Part of the fun for me is learning in the heat of the battle!

    Granted, I understand OP frustration, and would agree its entirely reasonable to hope for better players in Vet dungeons. Key word: hope... Vet content is unlocked at lvl 50... pretty sure that speaks loud enough on its own as to what you should expect.
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  • lagrue
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    Hard disagree.

    It depends on etiquette. Back when I was learning my dungeon mechanics, I made sure to say in text chat I didn't know what to do for a part, and if somebody could explain it to me, I would appreciate it.

    Only one single time in the 30+ dungeons of the game did I ever see a player get actively upset at me for not knowing, and he left - the guy who replaced him happily explained the next encounter and we finished without the enraged vet in the squad.

    Ever since I learned, I always make sure to ask before bosses "everybody know the mechanics?" - and if somebody doesn't, I walk them through it.

    Just because you are too inconsiderate to want to spend 2 minutes explaining something, doesn't mean everybody should bow to your will and jump out of queue.

    The real solution is actually the opposite - if you don't want to deal with green players, YOU join a guild for focused dungeon content and use pre-made squads. You're the one with the problem, and you can proactively solve it. Trying to police public instances is laughable, and impossible task.
    Edited by lagrue on March 19, 2020 8:00PM
    PSN ID (NA only): Zuzu_With_a_Z
    *GRAND MASTER CRAFTER*

    "You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"
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  • MEBengalsFan2001
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    shack80 wrote: »
    You are unsure of mechanics
    You are unsure of your own abilities (need to know how to block, dodge roll etc)
    You are not able to handle you class (if you are dd please do damage)

    This will only waste every1s time and the damn que timer sucks. If you want to learn mechanics or if you need to learn how to play the game (do damage and handle you abilities) that is what the guilds are for.

    In my opinion vet que isnt the place where you go when you want to learn to play. It is just frustrating.

    Some1 say that the que is for ppl to learn the game but in my opinion it is the opposite. Guilds are for this. Go for noob friendly guild to get help, not for the que.


    Vet Dungeons are not where you learn the mechanics, that happens in regular dungeons. Vet dungeons require a bit more understand and better execution of mechanics to ensure a smooth run.

    If someone does que up for a vet and doesn't know mechanics, I have no issue if someone doesn't know mechanics, because that can be taught, well hopefully.

    My biggest issues is when a DD ends up queing as tank or healer and are not even good at being a DD. I have seen this regularly and it causes frustration as it puts extra strain on the other group members.
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  • Arunei
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    shack80 wrote: »
    TBH no, I live at utc +2 and usually ppl play at 08-10pm theyre time and it is 10-12pm mytime and I need to work at mornings.
    It is true that I could make up my own guild but the population here is quite small to play the game on this server. And no I dont want to buy pc or move anywhere :)

    The purpose of the thread is to make discussion what is the right place learning the game, finder or guild. In my opinion it is the guilds. Finder is something you use when you want to play when you can. Guilds are something on where you can arrange time and stuff. And remember... IMHB.
    Actually no, your opinion on something doesn't make it the 'right place learning the game'. Guilds exist both for people learning the game and for people wanting to run with specific people, not just for the former group. Also you do realize that using the LFG tool puts you in a random group of people, who will have a random amount of experience with the game, right? You're claiming other people should have the onus of teaching newer players stuff, why are you exempt from doing what you're saying other people should have the responsibility of doing?

    You're also saying you can't join any guilds that run when you do, yet you're claiming other people need to get in guilds to even be allowed to learn mechanics? Have you perhaps considered many other people may not be able to find guilds that play when they do?

    I just don't understand this mindset. Pug groups are random, the system is designed and meant for groups formed by the LFG tool to be random. Why do people always want to try and control who does what content with a random group? If you don't want to deal with getting someone who doesn't meet your standards, don't pug. Otherwise just accept the fact that you can't control who does what content, nor do you have the right to try. And that goes for anyone who has specific expectations, be it wanting to go slowly to experience the story, or people wanting to speed through everything and not stop for trash mobs, etc. If you want to do things a certain way or have people of a certain skill, form a group of like-minded people. But don't expect people who just want to play the game normally and enjoy the content they paid for to automatically bend over backwards to live up to your standards and play the way you want them to.

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    Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
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  • idk
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    inMori;c-6663609"]
    zvavi wrote: »
    Disagree. I pug a lot and many times (not most) "learning" dds and tanks and heals preform better than experienced ones. It is especially true for healers. Dont know what eledrain or orbs are. a problem that i do encounter though, is language barrier.

    What you said here is nonsensical.

    Someone is not experienced if they do not know what to do. Therefore your argument is nonsense.[/quote]

    I have seen bad tanks that were CP capped. They would not block the heavy attack, bad at keeping their taunt up on the boss, and more. Yet I have run with a CP 10 player as a tank with only 20k HP running their first vet dungeon and they had not even seen it on normal. I explained the basics of the fights and they did great. I have seen a near CP capped stam melee DPS that insisted they did not have an interrupt.

    tldr, just because someone is experienced does not mean they have a clue what they are doing.

    You might think that was a nonsensical post, but in reality, it is a perfectly legit response even if it could use a little more clarity.
    Edited by idk on March 19, 2020 8:52PM
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  • grkkll
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    My problem with pugging is the critic who complains about low damage, doesn't specify who and when asked doesn't reply and runs as soon as dung is finished. Happened to me yesterday on my stamdk built for pvp. I never use a dummy as dummies don't fight back so I don't use them. I don't know what my dps is and I don't care. By all means give constructive criticism, not "ffs where's your damage". Maybe I was found wanting but tell me, don't hide behind a generalism. Pugging is a team game and if evry1 is trying their best then that's fine. If you're an elitist form a group with 3 other elitists and bask together in the glory of elity heaven
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  • Agenericname
    Agenericname
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    shack80 wrote: »
    shack80 wrote: »
    Or you can join a guild yourself and just play with them thus avoiding the queue.

    This I kinda agree, but the thing is that usually when I play all of the guilds are "dead" because of timezones so thats one reason I try the finder.

    But I do have to ask.... What is the point of staying in a guild that is dead at the times you play? Why not find a guild that is better matched to your play times? Surely there're some that exist?
    8
    The purpose of the thread is to make discussion what is the right place learning the game, finder or guild. In my opinion it is the guilds. Finder is something you use when you want to play when you can. Guilds are something on where you can arrange time and stuff. And remember... IMHB.


    We can discuss it until the cows come home, but not change it. You cannot dictate how another players plays. You can opt to not play with them or to vote to kick them, but the extent of the control that ZOS allows us. It's a public venue and regardless of your or my opinion on it, it is open to players of all skill levels.

    That said, it is my opinion that it is a box of chocolates. I can reasonably expect a clear with 3 random strangers, which is exactly what the dungeon finder is going to give me. When I expect more than that, I'll go with a guild.

    You could spend a year in normal dungeons and still not learn it all simply because one strong or even moderate DD can negate the majority of the mechanics. You can easily recover if someone isn't interupted or if positioning isn't what it needs to be. Doing a dungeon on normal first or even 5 times isn't a garauntee that you'll learn.

    Take some time to help them along, and if they do not want it, move along to another group, it's not your problem anymore, but they're more than likely not going to learn much in a normal. And overland certainly isn't going to teach them anything other than you make sure the "loot all" prompt comes up before you hit "R."

    Edited by Agenericname on March 19, 2020 9:09PM
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  • Vaoh
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    There is a tutorial at the start of the game that teaches blocking, light attacks, heavy attacks, stealth, etc.

    There is a PvP tutorial teaching you how to use siege weaponry.

    There is no tutorial to prepare you for Undaunted dungeon roles. Players have to learn on their own how to heal, tank, do damage etc..... overland content is so easy that you can faceroll 95% of the content while naked with no champion points. There is a fundamental lack of understanding for actual combat roles in ESO since ZOS failed to teach players anywhere.

    While I do think it’s selfish to join a run where you know you are going to be almost entirely useless, dungeon finder tends to be where a lot of players attempt to start doing harder content. We were all noobs once lol.
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  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    I queue as tank just to laugh at the DDs for not even being able to do 20K :)
    Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
    vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor

    PC-EU CP 3000+
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    Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
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    Characters:
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  • FrancisCrawford
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    Hippie4927 wrote: »
    Royaji wrote: »
    This is going to be a great thread. I've brought some popcorn.

    @Royaji

    Sharing?

    Only with those who have the Cornpopper achievement.
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  • snoozy
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    disagree with 'unsure about mechanics'
    the other 2 are fair.

    if you don't like the risk of PUG, queue up with friends or guildies or ask in zone chat like everyone else does ;)
    PC EU
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  • Iskiab
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    I think the main thing is just to understand your class and how your role works.

    There are too many dungeons to remember everything, I usually wing it because I don’t do PvE often enough to remember them all.

    I’d say a more accurate pace would be:

    Do normals until you have two 5 piece sets and are CP300.

    Do normal Vets from CP300+

    Do DLC Vets once you have orbs and proper gear, preferably CP600 but not required.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
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  • thegreat_one
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    I think the game in it current state is the issue, making everything harder for inexperienced players with basic knowledge of mechs.
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  • akdave0
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    If youre a DD then do damage and don't stand in stupid then blame the healer.
    Don't agro a mile of enemies and then expect everyone to kill everything because that's how you roll with your team or guildmates. Show your girth and fight them all tough guy.
    If you go into a PUG vdungeon expect the players to be green.
    NEVER expect a ND, SR, or HM.
    Keep in mind that, at the end of the day, this is just a game. No quarters required. What may be important to you, doesn't mean crap to the millionaire or the military vet playing. Yes, both play this game.
    Edited by akdave0 on March 19, 2020 10:56PM
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  • Tigerseye
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    Yes, well your opinion is clearly illogical, because when you queue for a random dungeon, you get random people, with random skillsets and random levels of ability.

    Whereas, when you make your own group, you can stipulate what you want.

    It's a bit like you can't control who you might bump into in a (public) bar, but you can control who you invite to a private party, which you have organised.
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  • zvavi
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    idk wrote: »
    JinMori wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    Disagree. I pug a lot and many times (not most) "learning" dds and tanks and heals preform better than experienced ones. It is especially true for healers. Dont know what eledrain or orbs are. a problem that i do encounter though, is language barrier.

    What you said here is nonsensical.

    Someone is not experienced if they do not know what to do. Therefore your argument is nonsense.

    I have seen bad tanks that were CP capped. They would not block the heavy attack, bad at keeping their taunt up on the boss, and more. Yet I have run with a CP 10 player as a tank with only 20k HP running their first vet dungeon and they had not even seen it on normal. I explained the basics of the fights and they did great. I have seen a near CP capped stam melee DPS that insisted they did not have an interrupt.

    tldr, just because someone is experienced does not mean they have a clue what they are doing.

    You might think that was a nonsensical post, but in reality, it is a perfectly legit response even if it could use a little more clarity.

    I though i made it obvious with the healer example, thanks for helping clarify it.
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  • Tsar_Gekkou
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    Seeing as how we're allowed to "play as you want" since we all paid for the game, if you see people in the dungeon who are 810cp and just running around light attacking with a bow, join them. Why should you play your part if other people won't? If you're a healer, stop healing them and just throw out random skills like they are. Same goes for the tank, just stop tauting and "play how you want." since you queued up for the same content as them, you should play like them too.
    Xbox NA healer main
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  • RiskyChalice863
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    Some of the best experiences I’ve had in dungeons is with random groups in a veteran dungeon where all of us either didn’t know the mechanics or had forgotten them, and we worked through it together in an upbeat, positive manner. I had one of these yesterday actually. Was doing a vet dungeon I’d done once or twice before but had almost entirely forgotten the mechanics for. Another person remembered them a bit better than me and coached us on it but she was still a bit hazy on the mechanics too, and the two others had never done the dungeon before. It took us a long time to get through the dungeon but everyone was super positive and upbeat and we eventually did complete it. It was definitely far more fun and satisfying than if we’d just facerolled the dungeon easily. Completing it felt like an accomplishment.

    That said, there have been times where I’ve farmed the same dungeon countless times to try to get certain specific items, and it can be a bit frustrating in that circumstance to have groups that don’t know what they’re doing, since at that point I know the mechanics and just want to speed run the thing. But honestly, if you’re wanting to farm a dungeon, I think that’s where guilds are meant to come in to help you do that quickly. And otherwise, if your group is good then enjoy an easy dungeon clear, and if they’re not good, get on voice and coach them through it—those experiences can be fun.
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  • Starlock
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    No, no, no... ya have it all wrong.

    Do not queue for a veteran dungeon if you have a deplorable deficit in fashion sense. Nobody wants to look at your horrendously hideous “outfit” for fifteen minutes and its garish lack of taste distracts everyone from watching for mechanics!

    ;)
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  • Kittytravel
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    shack80 wrote: »
    You are unsure of mechanics
    You are unsure of your own abilities (need to know how to block, dodge roll etc)
    You are not able to handle you class (if you are dd please do damage)
    This will only waste every1s time and the damn que timer sucks. If you want to learn mechanics or if you need to learn how to play the game (do damage and handle you abilities) that is what the guilds are for.
    In my opinion vet que isnt the place where you go when you want to learn to play. It is just frustrating.
    Some1 say that the que is for ppl to learn the game but in my opinion it is the opposite. Guilds are for this. Go for noob friendly guild to get help, not for the que.

    Please don't que for veteran dungeons if...
    1. You want a fast run.
    2. You want people to know the dungeon.
    3. You want high DPS beyond the average 20-30k
    4. You have no patience to teach mechanics.

    This only wastes new players time and the damn que timer sucks. If you want to speed run dungeons or do a really quick daily pledge run that is what the guilds are for.
    In my opinion vet que is the place to go to learn how to play. It's just frustrating when you're new and don't have a guild to do this stuff with.
    Some1 say that the que isn't for people to learn the game, but in my opinion it's the opposite. Guilds are for speed runs and easy runs, after all if you were any good at the game to begin with why aren't you running with your trial guild.
    Go for trial and dungeon guilds to get your quick runs, not que.
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  • Iskiab
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    shack80 wrote: »
    You are unsure of mechanics
    You are unsure of your own abilities (need to know how to block, dodge roll etc)
    You are not able to handle you class (if you are dd please do damage)
    This will only waste every1s time and the damn que timer sucks. If you want to learn mechanics or if you need to learn how to play the game (do damage and handle you abilities) that is what the guilds are for.
    In my opinion vet que isnt the place where you go when you want to learn to play. It is just frustrating.
    Some1 say that the que is for ppl to learn the game but in my opinion it is the opposite. Guilds are for this. Go for noob friendly guild to get help, not for the que.

    Please don't que for veteran dungeons if...
    1. You want a fast run.
    2. You want people to know the dungeon.
    3. You want high DPS beyond the average 20-30k
    4. You have no patience to teach mechanics.

    This only wastes new players time and the damn que timer sucks. If you want to speed run dungeons or do a really quick daily pledge run that is what the guilds are for.
    In my opinion vet que is the place to go to learn how to play. It's just frustrating when you're new and don't have a guild to do this stuff with.
    Some1 say that the que isn't for people to learn the game, but in my opinion it's the opposite. Guilds are for speed runs and easy runs, after all if you were any good at the game to begin with why aren't you running with your trial guild.
    Go for trial and dungeon guilds to get your quick runs, not que.

    I almost always solo queue for dungeons. I primarily pvp, guild runs for PvE in a pvp guild can be more painful than the random queue.

    There are actually a lot of good players who use the random queue. I queue as a healer so maybe that makes it easier, there have been non-DLC vets where I’ve been more than half the group’s damage, but even then they’re smooth... just not the fastest. I’ve tried doing randoms as a tank and it was pretty painful.
    Edited by Iskiab on March 20, 2020 4:07AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
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  • worrallj
    worrallj
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    shack80 wrote: »
    If you want to learn mechanics or if you need to learn how to play the game (do damage and handle you abilities) that is what the guilds are for.

    False. Guilds are for people that want to avoid PUGs. Sounds like you need one.
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  • barney2525
    barney2525
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    I dunno. I'm level 16. I think I can handle anything .

    Where's the queue ?


    :#
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  • Nanfoodle
    Nanfoodle
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    Public Q's are always a mix bag of nuts and everyone makes fun of PUGs in every MMO. OP, you have it backwards. Guilds are for people who want a certain quantity of players. Public Q's are where people go to learn the game. Who has time to watch and memorize 30-40 videos for every dungeon. IMO some vet dungeons should come with a rating of easy, hard and epic. So people know what to Q for.
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