Update 43 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of July 15:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance - July 15

Please dont que for veteran dungeons if....

  • VelimOrthic
    VelimOrthic
    ✭✭✭
    It takes a while to learn patience, but you have to realize there's only one way for people to learn the mechanics in the first place, and that's their own trial and error. Youtube helps but every build is so different that that help only extends so far. You can know your build like the back of your hand, but the point of new, challenging content is for it to "feel new".

    The point is not to make your grind a little easier.
    Edited by VelimOrthic on March 20, 2020 5:28AM
    Options
  • AndyMac
    AndyMac
    ✭✭✭✭
    I love the Random Vet group finder - not only are you rolling the dice on the dungeon, but also the group you’ll get.

    I’ve had some insane Vet DLC groups selecting random vets. I’ve got clears of a number of hard vet DLCs plus some hard modes. I got dropped into a group attempting Fang Lair HM and we nailed it. Nuts. I would never have thought that.

    My experience is that these pugs will have at least two players who know what they’re doing and one possible carry. They are generally the silent one lol.

    It’s always nice at the end of a hard dungeon that one player is obviously particularly stoked with the clear.

    Ofc from time to time, the gamble doesn’t pay off and it’s a wipe fest at an early boss even after some pointers.

    That’s the risk I happily take though and all I can do is shrug, tell the group I’m out of time and leave.

    Yeah, I’ll keep running them for sure.
    Andymac - Magicka DK - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror
    Options
  • kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
    kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay I just have to ask who goes to the que for a smooth run? I mean yeah it works for dailies but that’s about it. I have had to give quick tips before a fight like don’t be next to the edge boss will kick down or having to break a boss fight down piece by piece.

    I have had to leave the dungeon make a player a piece of armor or craft a whole or two just cause they were wearing trash drops. Hell you once did that for all three people that was RL friends that just started the game. It’s a free for all you get what you get.

    Instead of getting mad and making a post about it you could just help them get better and maybe they can help someone else. If you did you would have more pugs that’s know what to do.
    Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
    Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
    Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
    Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
    Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
    Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
    Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
    Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
    Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
    Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
    Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
    Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
    Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
    Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master

    For the King of Argonia
    May Sithis hold back his Void
    Options
  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    LOM tree boss , FV laser room , MHK card room , all are PUG killer .

    Learn to play in a hour , it's pretty hard . Those players will give up the dungeons at the end .

    When I pug , I expect I carry the team .
    Options
  • shack80
    shack80
    ✭✭✭
    I might need to change my opinion about dont que if you dont know the mechs. Those ones are easily explained thru the chat but the other two points I still keep.
    Options
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Anyone can queue up and play with me. Sometimes it's fun to struggle and go past your own limits!
    Options
  • Eifleber
    Eifleber
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I blame it on Zenimax.

    Why? The normal/veteran tier system is severely flawed. Starting players that just did FG1 vet may think the rest of the vet dungeons are of similar difficulty. There is no way of knowing the absolute difficulty of dungeons and most people don' t care to find out on the web.

    Dungeons should be divided into say 4 categories
    tier 1: easy
    tier 2: medium
    tier 3: hard
    tier 4: very hard

    Fg1 and Fg1 vet could both be in "easy" and MHK in "hard" and vMHK in "very hard" for example.
    That way new players have a broad idea of the difficulty of a dungeon and may be reluctant to queue for tier 4 runs.
    Edited by Eifleber on March 20, 2020 9:55AM

    Playing since dec 2019 | PC EU
    Options
  • thissocalledflower
    thissocalledflower
    ✭✭✭
    shack80 wrote: »
    Please dont queue for vet dungeons if you cant seem to remember that you were carried when you were new because there are a lot of new players trying to learn and they don't deserve to be treated smugly by people who act like they were never in that position before..






    There. corrected that for you.
    Edited by thissocalledflower on March 20, 2020 12:08PM
    After careful consideration (and oh! so much deliberation) we have concluded that you circumstance sounds too much like a l2p issue for it to be just a mere coincidence.
    Options
  • mobicera
    mobicera
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    As long as you have an appropriate build and are doing appropriate dps and support, know base game mechanics ie. Weaving, dodge, block, ice staff heavies, etc. Then I personally don't care if you don't know the dungeons mechanics. As long as the person is willing to get into chat and learn I will teach dungeon mechanics.
    I will not teach you build or base game mechanics in vet dlc dungeons though, just dungeon mechanics...
    Options
  • GreenhaloX
    GreenhaloX
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    shack80 wrote: »
    You are unsure of mechanics
    You are unsure of your own abilities (need to know how to block, dodge roll etc)
    You are not able to handle you class (if you are dd please do damage)

    This will only waste every1s time and the damn que timer sucks. If you want to learn mechanics or if you need to learn how to play the game (do damage and handle you abilities) that is what the guilds are for.

    In my opinion vet que isnt the place where you go when you want to learn to play. It is just frustrating.

    Some1 say that the que is for ppl to learn the game but in my opinion it is the opposite. Guilds are for this. Go for noob friendly guild to get help, not for the que.


    I know it can be frustrating, and in a perfect world, people would be better to comply. However, in our current great gaming world, ahhh.. good luck with this.. ha ha
    Edited by GreenhaloX on March 20, 2020 1:02PM
    Options
  • kathandira
    kathandira
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    shack80 wrote: »
    You are unsure of mechanics
    You are unsure of your own abilities (need to know how to block, dodge roll etc)
    You are not able to handle you class (if you are dd please do damage)

    Zos says we can play our own way. So it is what it is.
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
    Options
  • Lady_Linux
    Lady_Linux
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    shack80 wrote: »
    If you think you are too good for pugs. If you are too good for pugs then by all means join a guild and make some friends and form a group to do vet dungeons with people who are like minded, otherwise you will just frustrate yourself and make posts on forums to stir up unnecessary controversy and to complain about things you could easily fix by being proactive in choosing to play differently. Because really, the only person's behavior you can control is your own.

    <3

    I too fixed that for you. Have a wonderful day <3<3
    I simply must protest. There are no Penguin avatars for me to use in the forums.

    BTW, I use arch too
    Options
  • daemonor
    daemonor
    ✭✭✭✭
    Okay I just have to ask who goes to the que for a smooth run? I mean yeah it works for dailies but that’s about it. I have had to give quick tips before a fight like don’t be next to the edge boss will kick down or having to break a boss fight down piece by piece.

    I have had to leave the dungeon make a player a piece of armor or craft a whole or two just cause they were wearing trash drops. Hell you once did that for all three people that was RL friends that just started the game. It’s a free for all you get what you get.

    Instead of getting mad and making a post about it you could just help them get better and maybe they can help someone else. If you did you would have more pugs that’s know what to do.

    I agree that you're supposed to help others so they can do the same which would on paper make the community more skilled...but damn when you're leveling you 16th char's undauted to 9 thru dailies it gets old.
    Options
  • Lady_Linux
    Lady_Linux
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    daemonor wrote: »
    Okay I just have to ask who goes to the que for a smooth run? I mean yeah it works for dailies but that’s about it. I have had to give quick tips before a fight like don’t be next to the edge boss will kick down or having to break a boss fight down piece by piece.

    I have had to leave the dungeon make a player a piece of armor or craft a whole or two just cause they were wearing trash drops. Hell you once did that for all three people that was RL friends that just started the game. It’s a free for all you get what you get.

    Instead of getting mad and making a post about it you could just help them get better and maybe they can help someone else. If you did you would have more pugs that’s know what to do.

    I agree that you're supposed to help others so they can do the same which would on paper make the community more skilled...but damn when you're leveling you 16th char's undauted to 9 thru dailies it gets old.

    sounds like burnout
    I simply must protest. There are no Penguin avatars for me to use in the forums.

    BTW, I use arch too
    Options
  • shack80
    shack80
    ✭✭✭
    TBH this has been a good thread. Great comments and opinions.

    I really enjoy the game and I am not the elitist as some reclaim here. I just want todo the content. I dont mind going thru the mechanics but if it takes over an hour to complete the que that in my opinion is too much. Just make sure you can do enough dps , like 30k on the 3m dummy and know your role. That is all I want. But if ppl hit like 15k and it takes ages to kill even add pulls, thats the thing that makes me angry.
    Edited by shack80 on March 20, 2020 3:04PM
    Options
  • MajThorax
    MajThorax
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do 12k dps, queue on vet dlc dungeons for the first time and still don't know what roll dodge is. SUE ME
    Options
  • 5cript
    5cript
    ✭✭✭✭
    I always give others a chance.
    Lately I have been healing mostly. Because this is the only way for me to find a group as a solo player.

    Whenever my group struggles too much, I switch to DPS + burst heal and dps with them and burst heal people to full when they are on the brink of death. This usually works to carry almost any group through a dungeon including dlc.
    Obviously not hard mode.

    And if people refuse to understand mechanics at a boss, I leave eventually.
    There is nothing for me to wine about. I dont need pledge keys from vet dlc dungeons on hm.
    If thats the goal with randoms, f*** off.
    Options
  • Agenericname
    Agenericname
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Eifleber wrote: »
    I blame it on Zenimax.

    Why? The normal/veteran tier system is severely flawed. Starting players that just did FG1 vet may think the rest of the vet dungeons are of similar difficulty. There is no way of knowing the absolute difficulty of dungeons and most people don' t care to find out on the web.

    Dungeons should be divided into say 4 categories
    tier 1: easy
    tier 2: medium
    tier 3: hard
    tier 4: very hard

    Fg1 and Fg1 vet could both be in "easy" and MHK in "hard" and vMHK in "very hard" for example.
    That way new players have a broad idea of the difficulty of a dungeon and may be reluctant to queue for tier 4 runs.

    To an extent we have that now, it's just not always easy, or possible, to see. As you're leveling dungeons will open to you at varying levels (easy). At 45 the normal DLCs (easy-medium). At 50 some base game vets (easy-medium). At CP160 more base game vets like vCoA2 (mostly medium) and at 300CP the vet DLCs (hard). Finally vDLC HM (very hard).

    If you follow the progression as they become available to you it's a good indicator of the level of difficulty. When you get to the DLCs the rule becomes; the later, the more difficult. The last 2 are the exception but it holds pretty true until that point.

    A player who starts doing dungeons +300CP wouldn't be able to see that or necessarily know the order of the DLCs. ZOS could spell that out, but I think if they wanted to provide some relief they could address why some feel so much harder than others.

    The vet DLCs are easily the most complained about, but not always for the right reasons. What most people struggle with are the mechanics. Not always the dungeon mechanics, but when they're coupled with player mechanics like dodge, break free, interrupt/bash, or block it can be very difficult. Since MHK was your example, and it's a good one, look at vMHK. 2 of the bosses need an interrupt/bash and some of the trash. You can get a clear easily without obscenely high DPS but without something as simple as an interupt you will not get one at all unless you have obscenely high DPS.

    The game does teach us how to do these but does a poor job of reinforcing the need them and creates content where they are crucial. It makes the transition less smooth than it could be.

    Unfortunately I do not know of an easy or practical solution and I do not want to see the challenge watered down, so I'll do what I can to help when people are receptive (and that's usually the case) and move on when they're not.
    Options
  • Pajor
    Pajor
    ✭✭✭✭
    I pugged veteran fang lair last night. My first time and the tank never been there either. We cleared it and stuck to it. Was a lot of fun.
    Options
  • Steveowatt
    Il be honest I have on occasions checked out mechanic guides for dungeons and then gone to said dungeon... forgotten and died a few times. There is (i find) something rewarding of going into a dungeon with people who are willing to try and you defeat the dungeon.

    Sometimes on the job training is the only way you get better at things. Then when I am in dungeons I know well and I can see someone is struggling or does not know a certain mechanic I tell them what they need to do.. simples.

    All I would like is what has been mentioned if your a tank... queue as a tank healer queue as healer etc etc.

    Options
  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Get over yourself. Many times as the group finder screwed me over with the Superbad, I’ll bring whatever the heck I feel like into it. On vet. With eso+ for dlc dungeons.


    I don’t group finder pug a whole lot anymore
    Options
  • regime211
    regime211
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    shack80 wrote: »
    You are unsure of mechanics
    You are unsure of your own abilities (need to know how to block, dodge roll etc)
    You are not able to handle you class (if you are dd please do damage)

    This will only waste every1s time and the damn que timer sucks. If you want to learn mechanics or if you need to learn how to play the game (do damage and handle you abilities) that is what the guilds are for.

    In my opinion vet que isnt the place where you go when you want to learn to play. It is just frustrating.

    Some1 say that the que is for ppl to learn the game but in my opinion it is the opposite. Guilds are for this. Go for noob friendly guild to get help, not for the que.


    The only thing I agree on is wait nvm nothing of what you said. How about you use your guild for veteran dungeons, so you're not wasting your time.
    Options
  • Danksta
    Danksta
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Don't queue for vet dungeons if you can't carry me while I spam light attacks.
    BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA

    Options
  • Shantu
    Shantu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    This subject has been discussed in one form or the other to the point it's absurd. The DF is a "public" option...meaning just about anyone of any skill can use it for whatever reason they want. To try to shape it or have it adjusted to meet personal needs is pointless. If you want to run with a competent group, run with guild members you know. You run with the DF, you take your chances. That's never going to change. Better to just get over it.
    Options
  • shack80
    shack80
    ✭✭✭
    MajThorax wrote: »
    I do 12k dps, queue on vet dlc dungeons for the first time and still don't know what roll dodge is. SUE ME

    LOL, something I love :)
    Options
  • shack80
    shack80
    ✭✭✭
    Shantu wrote: »
    That's never going to change. Better to just get over it.

    But I just caaaaaaant :) lol... I am frustrated cant you see.
    Options
  • OmniDo
    OmniDo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I always "lol" at these threads.
    Struggles are typically caused by one or more of the following:
    1. Ignorance of mechanics
    2. Misperception or imperception of mechanics
    3. Sub-optimal execution of response to mechanics
    4. Miscommunication or no communication between participants
    It's not rocket science.
    1. Understand the things to look for
    2. Look for the things
    3. Respond to the things correctly and optimally
    Those who don't do all the above, and/or don't educate themselves regarding the above, will always end with sub-optimal results.
    To accomplish this, one needs to:
    1. Research what things can and do exist (google is your friend...)
    2. Setup a way to recognize the things you need to see (Familiarize yourself with information presented to you via your UI, or "User Interface" for those unfamiliar with the acronym)
    3. Do the things that are *needed*, when they need to be done (Control your character's actions by pressing your buttons, moving your mouse, and clicking)
    For normal dungeons, that's about all anyone *needs* to do. Basically just have a pulse and /faceroll your keyboard while clicking your mouse.
    Some DLC's, Veteran, and Hard Modes on the other hand have requisites that are much more strict and will likely require practice, polish, and a bit of finesse to combat the notorious R.N.G. (pun intended)
    That's the only real difference between "Normal", "Veteran", and "Hard Mode" events: The degree of baked-in tolerance for human error and/or sub-optimal performance. Note that optimal performance can also require minimum expectations, such as CP requirements (minimum 300 to queue for veteran dungeons) or minimum stat/resource requirements such as: Health, Stamina, Magicka, and related recovery rates, some of which can be compensated for by the aforementioned "finesse".

    In summary:
    One don't need to know all the mechanics by name or boss type or whatever.
    One just needs to do those things mentioned above and familiarize oneself with any "gimmick" events for specific encounters, if success is the goal.

    If the goal is to just f--- around, laugh, and enjoy the scenery/environment, then by all means disregard everything I just said and go have fun, :D but also expect that failure is more likely. ;)
    Edited by OmniDo on March 20, 2020 5:35PM
    Options
  • Kittytravel
    Kittytravel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Iskiab Oh I wasn't saying that as if there aren't good players in the rando queue.

    It was more a display that; if you make an argument and every point can be countered by the literal exact opposite side in the exact same way then it's a very poor argument. I rando queue with a tank friend all the time; we get bad groups we get okay groups we get awesome groups. I mean we got into a vet FG1 where a DPS kept dying and I literally had to take a second to remember that you can actually die in FG1. But we explained the mechanics and stuff and gave him some tips like changing the combat cues color to be pink so it's easier to notice VS red.

    But yeah my point was mostly you can't join a rando queue and expect every single member every single time to be top grade. That is exactly what hardcore dungeon/trial guilds are for... to avoid that. Random is random and you should be prepared for every scenario good or bad; the solution shouldn't be "just kick them".
    Options
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    @Iskiab Oh I wasn't saying that as if there aren't good players in the rando queue.

    It was more a display that; if you make an argument and every point can be countered by the literal exact opposite side in the exact same way then it's a very poor argument. I rando queue with a tank friend all the time; we get bad groups we get okay groups we get awesome groups. I mean we got into a vet FG1 where a DPS kept dying and I literally had to take a second to remember that you can actually die in FG1. But we explained the mechanics and stuff and gave him some tips like changing the combat cues color to be pink so it's easier to notice VS red.

    But yeah my point was mostly you can't join a rando queue and expect every single member every single time to be top grade. That is exactly what hardcore dungeon/trial guilds are for... to avoid that. Random is random and you should be prepared for every scenario good or bad; the solution shouldn't be "just kick them".

    Yea, I agree. That’s why I like queuing as a healer. You can pump out enough dps to make the dungeon bareable, carry a tank who doesn’t block and fill in group gaps.

    I don’t mind new players too, we’ve all been there.
    Edited by Iskiab on March 20, 2020 5:11PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
    Options
  • idk
    idk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Eifleber wrote: »
    I blame it on Zenimax.

    Why? The normal/veteran tier system is severely flawed. Starting players that just did FG1 vet may think the rest of the vet dungeons are of similar difficulty. There is no way of knowing the absolute difficulty of dungeons and most people don' t care to find out on the web.

    Dungeons should be divided into say 4 categories
    tier 1: easy
    tier 2: medium
    tier 3: hard
    tier 4: very hard

    Fg1 and Fg1 vet could both be in "easy" and MHK in "hard" and vMHK in "very hard" for example.
    That way new players have a broad idea of the difficulty of a dungeon and may be reluctant to queue for tier 4 runs.

    They are already set with different difficulty levels. That new player who just reached champion level on their first character and did vet FG1 does not have access to all the dungeons until they gain more CP.

    What @shack80 should have said in the thread is do not queue solo for a veteran dungeon if you do not want to run with players that are very experienced with their character and the dungeons themselves.

    If you want to have a group that is to a higher standard then form your own group. It really is that simple and easy to do.
    Options
Sign In or Register to comment.