Ravenwatch PC NA

AdexiTheOneEyed

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I like it with no procs. I play no cp because when I die in a 1v1 or even Zerg vs Zerg I feel like I was outplayed and not out proccd.

I love no proc, I really do. Even though there isn't much build diversity, I've really enjoyed it. I felt Raven was more about skill then what set one used.

But I love our no cp campaign more, and it's dying fast. We had more people leave after the last campaign, in both DC and EP. I don't play AD, so I have no idea if they lost some, I've seen some in other campaigns but no idea if any actually left.

As much as I've enjoyed no proc, it should have been a trial run as Heike said. Unfortunately the campaign as a whole lost too much numbers, and the pop has really suffered.

Everything needs a counter, be it a zerg, bomber, etc. The campaign has always been most fun when all 3 factions have been thriving and full of population, and they need to do something about it. Ravenwatch loses more people each campaign, and as I've said, I seriously doubt any of us actually want the campaign to die.

AdexiTheOneEyed

Ishtharo wrote: »

I'd love to see an [Edited for Baiting] badge that ZOS can give out to people on these forums.
On second thought, no, they'd make it cost crowns to use.

Even still, the creators could make a lot of money off of us PvPers if they really wanted :P
I didn't buy crowns this week and my wardens can't mount


"For the life of me, I can’t imagine Adexi saying anything that would warrant being edited for baiting. Now I’m curious what was said. lol"

I didn't actually say anything this time That was me making a joke

Dirt_Rooster

Proc sets have always been frowned upon but didn't become an actual issue until the proc set meta a while ago. Guess what, they fixed proc sets by making them scale off of stats. I really wish they would remove these restrictions, ravenwatch has no counterplay to zergs. I don't enjoy getting hit by convergence or plaguebreak but honestly, I really don't mind those nearly as much as I hate not veing able to pvp in the first place. Just a yellow Zerg running around any time I'm on.

Metemsycosis

AdexiTheOneEyed wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I like it with no procs. I play no cp because when I die in a 1v1 or even Zerg vs Zerg I feel like I was outplayed and not out proccd.

I love no proc, I really do. Even though there isn't much build diversity, I've really enjoyed it. I felt Raven was more about skill then what set one used.

But I love our no cp campaign more, and it's dying fast. We had more people leave after the last campaign, in both DC and EP. I don't play AD, so I have no idea if they lost some, I've seen some in other campaigns but no idea if any actually left.

As much as I've enjoyed no proc, it should have been a trial run as Heike said. Unfortunately the campaign as a whole lost too much numbers, and the pop has really suffered.

Everything needs a counter, be it a zerg, bomber, etc. The campaign has always been most fun when all 3 factions have been thriving and full of population, and they need to do something about it. Ravenwatch loses more people each campaign, and as I've said, I seriously doubt any of us actually want the campaign to die.

I think it has more to do with server performance than anything else. I noticed activity all night in RW since the server update. Not pop locked but nonetheless. I realized how rusty I was too since I had been in BR just constantly avoiding dark convergence.

I like both I guess and like there is pvp I can get into without the procs is all

neferpitou73

The issue with RW for me right now is the imbalance between offensive and defensive procs. If they fixed that it would be more fun to play in.

But if I'm being honest, I find np kind of boring with the limited set options. One of the things I like about this game is the ability to find unique builds and set combinations. NP just takes away half my toys. And I'd wager that's a lot of the reason that many guilds left np even before the zerg-fest of the past few months. I remember the days when you'd have LoM, Impact, Cutest, TM, AoC, RR all fighting it out on the same map. Today I think DC is down to AoC and TM? I couldn't tell you about the other factions but I get the feeling there that the groups present there now aren't of the same caliber as a lot of the above groups (not to insult anyone of course, but there were a lot of talented people in those guilds, many of whom I miss playing with/against)

I never thought the proc meta was terrible in any case. It was a few sets that were massively overtuned and ZOS decided to nerf everything instead of just those sets. As someone mentioned with the proc scaling that's now mostly fixed. Except for DC/PB which should just be removed. Ironically even with all the defensive CP large-scale fights seem to end sooner in BR than they did in RW at least when I played Raven, so I actually find combat without the procs more boring.

Metemsycosis

I get what you mean about build diversity / unique combinations but the fact is there are builds only really good in Ravenwatch. For example there was a streamer I watched that ran diagna back bar and nobody could convince me there's a ton of that in GH and BR. Of course they work in GH/BR but are outshined by sets like the ones you mentioned. Personally I don't think they should be removed.

As I see it the proc campaigns are those that more or less push meta (new) sets and yeah you can be successful with what whatever if you're good but at a certain point you acknowledge you are gimping your potential by running non meta sets especially if you end up dying to them a lot (lol, like I do, against dark convergence).

Ishtharo

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I get what you mean about build diversity / unique combinations but the fact is there are builds only really good in Ravenwatch. For example there was a streamer I watched that ran diagna back bar and nobody could convince me there's a ton of that in GH and BR. Of course they work in GH/BR but are outshined by sets like the ones you mentioned. Personally I don't think they should be removed.

As I see it the proc campaigns are those that more or less push meta (new) sets and yeah you can be successful with what whatever if you're good but at a certain point you acknowledge you are gimping your potential by running non meta sets especially if you end up dying to them a lot (lol, like I do, against dark convergence).

I tend to agree with this, which is why I like no proc.
On the other hand, it makes groups stronger since there is no threat of VD, Plague, DC, ect. When it comes to map control, the biggest numbers win, as has been seen over the past couple camps where AD and EP have won.

No Proc makes even small man or solo fights more skill based. But it makes the larger fights more skill-less. As much as I love running around solo, I rarely get 1v1s or even a 3v1. Its usually zergV1, and why not? Numbers are the way to win in Raven.

YandereGirlfriend

Population numbers are slightly up for Ravenwatch since the server refresh as far as I can tell. We actually have some zone players most nights doing random things on the map and that is quite different from the last several campaigns. Of course, DC (and especially EP...) are still almost always badly outnumbered during prime time - but you have to sort of accept that as a constant if you're going to home the campaign.

As others have mentioned, the bias toward allowing the defensive proc sets and the longstanding population imbalance have created a sort of forced evolution for those non-AD players that have remained in the campaign. Builds have had to become better, players have had to become better, teamwork has had to become better - otherwise you are completely dunzo against those numbers.

However - and this may be news to those who have fled the campaign - it is completely possible, even against the current odds, for a single tight group to succeed against (and to farm) the faction stack. So, if you are a good group that has become bored with Dark Convergence doing your bombing for you - come to Ravenwatch for the greater challenge. DC will certainly welcome you... but if you want truly Hardest Mode PvP then come to the campaign and play for EP.

Also, I - and everyone that I know in the campaign - still miss the Bowz and hope for their eventual return.

neferpitou73

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Population numbers are slightly up for Ravenwatch since the server refresh as far as I can tell. We actually have some zone players most nights doing random things on the map and that is quite different from the last several campaigns. Of course, DC (and especially EP...) are still almost always badly outnumbered during prime time - but you have to sort of accept that as a constant if you're going to home the campaign.

As others have mentioned, the bias toward allowing the defensive proc sets and the longstanding population imbalance have created a sort of forced evolution for those non-AD players that have remained in the campaign. Builds have had to become better, players have had to become better, teamwork has had to become better - otherwise you are completely dunzo against those numbers.

However - and this may be news to those who have fled the campaign - it is completely possible, even against the current odds, for a single tight group to succeed against (and to farm) the faction stack. So, if you are a good group that has become bored with Dark Convergence doing your bombing for you - come to Ravenwatch for the greater challenge. DC will certainly welcome you... but if you want truly Hardest Mode PvP then come to the campaign and play for EP.

Also, I - and everyone that I know in the campaign - still miss the Bowz and hope for their eventual return.

Of this I have no doubt. But unfortunately there's not too many other balls to fight.

QuintusVaLari

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Population numbers are slightly up for Ravenwatch since the server refresh as far as I can tell. We actually have some zone players most nights doing random things on the map and that is quite different from the last several campaigns. Of course, DC (and especially EP...) are still almost always badly outnumbered during prime time - but you have to sort of accept that as a constant if you're going to home the campaign.

As others have mentioned, the bias toward allowing the defensive proc sets and the longstanding population imbalance have created a sort of forced evolution for those non-AD players that have remained in the campaign. Builds have had to become better, players have had to become better, teamwork has had to become better - otherwise you are completely dunzo against those numbers.

However - and this may be news to those who have fled the campaign - it is completely possible, even against the current odds, for a single tight group to succeed against (and to farm) the faction stack. So, if you are a good group that has become bored with Dark Convergence doing your bombing for you - come to Ravenwatch for the greater challenge. DC will certainly welcome you... but if you want truly Hardest Mode PvP then come to the campaign and play for EP.

Also, I - and everyone that I know in the campaign - still miss the Bowz and hope for their eventual return.

I dont completely disagree with you, I miss Ravenwatch, and like playing without procs and CP, honestly.

I will just say this: tightly formed ball groups don't keep a campaign alive. The other 95% of the PvP population (the casuals, the solos, the small mans, the pug groups, etc) do.
Alot of the players in our EP groups (Lords, Scourge, Bowz, etc) are not ball group players and just have not been having as much fun with some of the volatile population numbers which has prompted many to find fun in other camps, myself included.

It sucks to log in the last couple weeks and be gated pretty often, but ultimately it's not a AD, or DC, or EP problem - its a ZOS problem. There should be better campaign rewards, cosmetics, or even seasonal rewards for participating in PVP. Until ZOS invests in PvP, Campaigns will suffer, and the camp with the fragile populations that feels these pains the most acutely is always Raven.

Yasha

BrianEno wrote: »

Lord_Bashu wrote: »

Nite Capping in No CP, NA has been around a long time. AD is the only faction that has not done it on a reg basis. Cyro is not about equal numbers, you want to do something positive for your faction? Start a Guild, recruit lots of folks, train them!

Blaming the other side is pointless, I am sure they wish you had more folks too. I know I do..

Honestly Cyro is really about Guild Leaders, not groups of 1's 2's. z's….. etc... Its about Guild Leaders and Guilds... So start one today!!

Quoting here the great and absolute DC leader of the masses and my beautiful friend Lord Bashu, aka shu shu: "Nite Capping in No CP, NA has been around a long time. AD is the only faction that has not done it on a reg basis."
For you new players to understand that a faction always dominates the map for some period. AD has been in the same place as you, it's part of the game. For older players, learn from the absolute Lord shu shu wisdom. Stop whining and get packed with honor.

I was just think

Ishtharo wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I get what you mean about build diversity / unique combinations but the fact is there are builds only really good in Ravenwatch. For example there was a streamer I watched that ran diagna back bar and nobody could convince me there's a ton of that in GH and BR. Of course they work in GH/BR but are outshined by sets like the ones you mentioned. Personally I don't think they should be removed.

As I see it the proc campaigns are those that more or less push meta (new) sets and yeah you can be successful with what whatever if you're good but at a certain point you acknowledge you are gimping your potential by running non meta sets especially if you end up dying to them a lot (lol, like I do, against dark convergence).

I tend to agree with this, which is why I like no proc.
On the other hand, it makes groups stronger since there is no threat of VD, Plague, DC, ect. When it comes to map control, the biggest numbers win, as has been seen over the past couple camps where AD and EP have won.

No Proc makes even small man or solo fights more skill based. But it makes the larger fights more skill-less. As much as I love running around solo, I rarely get 1v1s or even a 3v1. Its usually zergV1, and why not? Numbers are the way to win in Raven.

I agree that the no-proc campaign is more skill based, but you are wrong about groups. Proc sets make organized groups, especially ball groups, far more powerful, to the point that they are almost unstoppable. As soon as proc sets were disabled, the ball groups in Raven started losing because they could no longer just use earthgore etc. as a crutch to survive.

The majority of the noise you are seeing on the forums about bringing back proc sets is spearheaded by the leaders or officers of those ball groups, because they can't win without them. They were winning not through skill but because they got carried by sets.

blktauna

Yasha wrote: »

The majority of the noise you are seeing on the forums about bringing back proc sets is spearheaded by the leaders or officers of those ball groups, because they can't win without them. They were winning not through skill but because they got carried by sets.

Wow... just wow.
no CP and procs were the best for bringing in new pvpers. our guild had training runs all the time and help people build for the 'big league' as it were. And no not ball groups. Most of our folks were single or small group players. CP makes far more difference than your sets. We got folks used to the environment and they had sufficient survivability in that campaign to actually learn something and become more proficient.

[snip] Training runs get overrun by thirsty 'skilled' players just looking to farm. They run the training group down and repeatedly kill them until we don't have a training run anymore. Don't wonder why there's no population, its pretty obvious why.

And please don't say 'use under 50' because we all know that's the worst of the set.

I don't know why there isn't an additional no cp full proc set campaign available. All the population run off from nocp no proc would love to have it back.

[Edit for minor bait.]

neferpitou73

Yasha wrote: »

BrianEno wrote: »

Lord_Bashu wrote: »

Nite Capping in No CP, NA has been around a long time. AD is the only faction that has not done it on a reg basis. Cyro is not about equal numbers, you want to do something positive for your faction? Start a Guild, recruit lots of folks, train them!

Blaming the other side is pointless, I am sure they wish you had more folks too. I know I do..

Honestly Cyro is really about Guild Leaders, not groups of 1's 2's. z's….. etc... Its about Guild Leaders and Guilds... So start one today!!

Quoting here the great and absolute DC leader of the masses and my beautiful friend Lord Bashu, aka shu shu: "Nite Capping in No CP, NA has been around a long time. AD is the only faction that has not done it on a reg basis."
For you new players to understand that a faction always dominates the map for some period. AD has been in the same place as you, it's part of the game. For older players, learn from the absolute Lord shu shu wisdom. Stop whining and get packed with honor.

I was just think

Ishtharo wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I get what you mean about build diversity / unique combinations but the fact is there are builds only really good in Ravenwatch. For example there was a streamer I watched that ran diagna back bar and nobody could convince me there's a ton of that in GH and BR. Of course they work in GH/BR but are outshined by sets like the ones you mentioned. Personally I don't think they should be removed.

As I see it the proc campaigns are those that more or less push meta (new) sets and yeah you can be successful with what whatever if you're good but at a certain point you acknowledge you are gimping your potential by running non meta sets especially if you end up dying to them a lot (lol, like I do, against dark convergence).

I tend to agree with this, which is why I like no proc.
On the other hand, it makes groups stronger since there is no threat of VD, Plague, DC, ect. When it comes to map control, the biggest numbers win, as has been seen over the past couple camps where AD and EP have won.

No Proc makes even small man or solo fights more skill based. But it makes the larger fights more skill-less. As much as I love running around solo, I rarely get 1v1s or even a 3v1. Its usually zergV1, and why not? Numbers are the way to win in Raven.

I agree that the no-proc campaign is more skill based, but you are wrong about groups. Proc sets make organized groups, especially ball groups, far more powerful, to the point that they are almost unstoppable. As soon as proc sets were disabled, the ball groups in Raven started losing because they could no longer just use earthgore etc. as a crutch to survive.

The majority of the noise you are seeing on the forums about bringing back proc sets is spearheaded by the leaders or officers of those ball groups, because they can't win without them. They were winning not through skill but because they got carried by sets.

As opposed to the zerg getting carried by Pariah? Or the people now getting carried by brokensoul?

Mega_Nova

Just want to say best wishes to @Lord_Bashu. After almost a decade of being a GM and a non cp DC leader you will be missed. Awesome battles and great memories! Enjoy whatever it is you do next!

ArdenLightBringer

I feel like most of the people that supposedly use pariah actually don't lol, at least I know this patch it seems pretty bad since you will get burned through anyways.

Qrähe

All light armor and no health, lets goooooo.

Aka_

I'm looking forward to MYM in the coming weeks! I hope we can see a boost that lasts beyond the event! A little tip when it comes to new players you encounter who haven't done any PvP: From my experience, it's best to make a group of one to three regulars in the campaign and then add anyone else that is new and looking for a group. This way, you can introduce more people to Cyrodiil, your guild, and how things work. If anyone has more tips to retaining people beyond the event, now is a great time to share as well. A more populated campaign is healthier for everyone's enjoyment!

As a side note, I've been noticing a pattern of the more established guilds' members being more positive, respectful, and cognizant of the map and health of the campaign, either through tells I receive or strategies I'm seeing. I want to thank you for that, I know none of us are perfect in balancing how aggressive we should be when a faction starts to steamroll, but there are many more people I've talked to who are being gracious and kind to me, at least. Happy howls for those competitors and friends

AdexiTheOneEyed

I'm also looking forward to MYM! I've had mostly a good experience making new friends in other factions as of late. I wish EP had more on during primetime so I could get some great fights out of emp

I've had some great field fights though against some of you and those were a blast.

On to a more serious note, I truly understand a faction cannot help that it has more people than the other factions. Unfortunately, this campaign and MYM I currently have as my last hurrah. If Raven continues to go down the road it's been forced to go, I'll be playing in Blackreach except to run WW night and during Police nights.

I'm hoping MYM brings back some pop for all the factions though, Ravenwatch was always most fun when we had all 3 factions thriving and we had amazing fights all day long. I miss that.

To AD and DC, I genuinely thank you guys for the great fights we've had, I'm here for the fights not the scoreboard. Every time we have a close fight no matter who wins, I walk away smiling. That's what I want Raven to return to, if it means bringing proc sets back, by all means. I just want pop back so we can have our fights, no more dead periods of nothing to do.

Qrähe

Anyone else smell gas?

Aka_

Qrähe wrote: »

Anyone else smell gas?

Huh?

Sindrik8x

My guild in EP has noticed AD tone it down a lot this campaign with the gate keep stuff, but I think EP numbers are up too. Seems we got quite a few good players who moved over and it seems they continue to bring guildies with them. Almost looks like a balance shift might be imminent. EP has remained competitive this entire campaign thus far. Though, I have also seen some players form last campaign not return on AD and DC's side too. So, may be a combo.

In any sense, Wrath and Ruin Gaming in EP started last campaign. My son and I began it as a mostly No-CP PvP guild and are working to bring back a good, healthy, and fun population to Ravenwatch. In 1.5 campaigns now, we've managed to recruit about 60 players. We stream probably once or twice a week (just for fun) @Wrath_and_Ruin_Gaming on Twitch, and get a consistent group of 5 - 12 players evening prime time hours. We coordinate with other EP guilds as well where it makes sense and strive to be open with communication, but mostly just having a good time.

Not sure if others have seen me about but my tag is @Sindrik8x, and my main Pvp'er is "Ralen Hlaalu" (Stamblade) and my other Pvp'er is "Moon Suga" (Mag dk). My son @ThorinIIx plays mostly on his Magsorc "Sorc that Can't Die". Really have enjoyed fights with many of you here, and seen some awesome builds and skill from many as well. Always appreciate the competition in Ravenwatch, and really my only objective is to see it thrive across the alliances.

I agree that we need more guilds inviting new blood in and training folks up to bring back life and balance to Cyrodil. Appreciate all everyone here does to keep it alive!

Aka_

In one week, Midyear Madness returns! Let the chaos begin! Time to also help those who are interested in PvP by being open to inviting, leading, and orienting them with the systems and strategies we have experience with. This is a good chance for Raven to be in a healthier state in the long run!

AWOOOOO

Aka_

I'm marking this comment for deletion, if any mod is so willing to help out, thanks!

Aka_

Have a good campaign lol

ArdenLightBringer

Aka_ wrote: »

Have a good campaign lol

Thanks! you too
Lets all do our best for a good last few days!

QuintusVaLari

Hello Ravenwatch.

Just wanted to stop by and give a personal thank you. I started playing 9 months ago and this camp is where I learned to PvP, Emp’d eight times, made friends, and cultivated my excitement for this amazing game.

However, myself and most of <Scourge Alliance> are moving to another camp, probably Blackreach. This move is bittersweet. We are all excited about playing a camp with more population and stability, but Ravenwatch has always been our home. Until ZOS does something to rekindle excitement in PvP overall, Ravenwatch will continue to suffer its perpetual unhealthy population swings.

This decision is one heavily weighed and discussed by the guild as a whole. You may see some of us still around, but your Wednesdays will likely have noticeably less howling over the castle walls.

From a personal perspective, I greatly appreciate those of you that have been friendly and fun on the other side, and loved the good fights we’ve had. I hope to brawl with all of you again! I’m off to chase squirrels in another place. When we all look up, no matter where we find ourselves, we will see the same moon, and you can rest assured that Quintus will still be out there, trying to figure out how to catch that glowing giant ball in the sky.

Awoo!
The “Floofy Emp!” as some AD call me
~Quintus

@QuintusVa’Lari

YandereGirlfriend

Judging by the bars over the last two weeks it looks as though it's finally time to stick a fork into Raven.

It's almost as if all of those players and guilds that said that they were leaving weren't bluffing after all.

Didgerion

QuintusVaLari wrote: »

Hello Ravenwatch.

Just wanted to stop by and give a personal thank you. I started playing 9 months ago and this camp is where I learned to PvP, Emp’d eight times, made friends, and cultivated my excitement for this amazing game.

However, myself and most of <Scourge Alliance> are moving to another camp, probably Blackreach. This move is bittersweet. We are all excited about playing a camp with more population and stability, but Ravenwatch has always been our home. Until ZOS does something to rekindle excitement in PvP overall, Ravenwatch will continue to suffer its perpetual unhealthy population swings.

This decision is one heavily weighed and discussed by the guild as a whole. You may see some of us still around, but your Wednesdays will likely have noticeably less howling over the castle walls.

From a personal perspective, I greatly appreciate those of you that have been friendly and fun on the other side, and loved the good fights we’ve had. I hope to brawl with all of you again! I’m off to chase squirrels in another place. When we all look up, no matter where we find ourselves, we will see the same moon, and you can rest assured that Quintus will still be out there, trying to figure out how to catch that glowing giant ball in the sky.

Awoo!
The “Floofy Emp!” as some AD call me
~Quintus

@QuintusVa’Lari

Looking briefly at Blackreach I suspect it has the same low population problem as Ravenwatch.

But the problem is not the low population. Low population just highlights the design flaws of Cyrodiil better.
No matter what campaign you choose the overall effect is the same: all the players converge into the same point of the map. There are no incentives to split up. Higher population means you will just have a bigger zerg in one location and of course more players that surf it. And the later adds that chaotic element into the mix which hides the real problem Cyrodiil is having.

But expect to face other problems that CP campaigns are having, for example I tried one the other day, I was not able to kill a single player there solo. Was forced to surf the ongoing fights to get kills.

CP campaigns are even worse than Ravenwatch imo, the only way to play there is in a group, and your group will do fine until they are facing another bigger group and that bigger group will do fine until they face even a bigger group....and all that culminates in....drum rolls.....lag spikes. If not for the lag it all would culminate in one gigazerg gating all the map, basically same as Ravenwatch.

Mega_Nova

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Judging by the bars over the last two weeks it looks as though it's finally time to stick a fork into Raven.

It's almost as if all of those players and guilds that said that they were leaving weren't bluffing after all.

I mean... people dont want to work 8-10 hours, come home, and get slapped by 3x the number than they have at prime time lol. If Raven is to recoup and survive its going to be on the guilds who either come back or are created to put healthy rules in place. Using non prime time vs prime time for arguments on gating and pop really has become irrelevant. Most of the veteran players who have continued to play over the almost decade of ESO are now embeded in real life careers/college.

There are also those of us just waiting until people on AD just get bored and pop for them goes down too, and the nerf for Oaken to go through.

Would be nice to get a healthy 2 bars across nightly for prime time come winter time.

YandereGirlfriend

Mega_Nova wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Judging by the bars over the last two weeks it looks as though it's finally time to stick a fork into Raven.

It's almost as if all of those players and guilds that said that they were leaving weren't bluffing after all.

I mean... people dont want to work 8-10 hours. Come home, and get slapped by 3x the number than they have at prime time lol. If Raven is to recoup and survive its going to be on the guilds who either come back or are created to put healthy rules in place. Using non prime time vs prime time for arguments on gating and pop really has become irrelevant. Most of the veteran players who have continued to play over the almost decade of ESO are now embeded in real life careers/college.

There are also those of us just waiting until people on AD just get bored and pop for them goes down too, and the nerf for Oaken to go through.

Would be nice to get a healthy 2 bars across nightly for prime time come winter time.

Absolutely agree.

Months ago only a small number of our guild members ever brought up the idea of potentially switching campaigns - and when they did it was always quickly shot down. Then as things didn't change, campaign after campaign after campaign after campaign, that number began to grow. Until it finally reached a critical mass during MM. Now we all just sort of wonder why we didn't re-home campaigns sooner because it really IS much more fun outside of that campaign and its toxic dynamics.

I still like the idea of Raven in the abstract but it began to feel like a fox hunt or something where we were just there for someone else's dark amusement.