an FYI about Bards in the Elder Scrolls universe

Tryxus

Unseelie wrote: »

"https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Bard

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Bards_College_(Faction)

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Bardic_Knowledge

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Bard_(Oblivion)"


Hmm....

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Lurbuk

Unseelie

Worst bard in Skyrim?
Hold my mead...

Siohwenoeht

I think folks are missing the point that was made about Bards in tes universe. It's absolutely true that they exist. It's also true they are NOT the prototypical bard from other tabletop/mmo RPGs.

I can see a bard skill line that provides buffs/debuffs, maybe even alters "charisma" characteristics for npc/justice system interactions, however there's just not enough meat in tes bardic tradition for a full blown class. The npc bards in the single player titles always describe themselves as entertainers and recorders of history.

A tes bard would (and does in the single player titles) use the same weapons that we currently have available for dd and would serve in a buff/debuff role as a support toon.

ESO is the first elder scrolls game to have a hard class structure simply because it's a MMO, but it's the outlier in the series. It shouldn't serve as a vessel to completely rewrite the series lore especially since it serves as a "prequel" game to the single player titles.

Unseelie

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I think folks are missing the point that was made about Bards in tes universe. It's absolutely true that they exist. It's also true they are NOT the prototypical bard from other tabletop/mmo RPGs.

I can see a bard skill line that provides buffs/debuffs, maybe even alters "charisma" characteristics for npc/justice system interactions, however there's just not enough meat in tes bardic tradition for a full blown class. The npc bards in the single player titles always describe themselves as entertainers and recorders of history.

A tes bard would (and does in the single player titles) use the same weapons that we currently have available for dd and would serve in a buff/debuff role as a support toon.

ESO is the first elder scrolls game to have a hard class structure simply because it's a MMO, but it's the outlier in the series. It shouldn't serve as a vessel to completely rewrite the series lore especially since it serves as a "prequel" game to the single player titles.

Who cares? Seriously who cares if it would be a stretch. We have people expecting Dragon Born bits from the Skyrim chapters. There is enough time between our timeline and the mainline game timeline to steer it toward known lore. Or who cares. When Lord of the Rings online brought in Rune seekers everyone lost their mind that it would kill lore and then after a while it didn't and nobody cared. And how is it considered a hard class line when you have mages and night blades able to tank as well as any other class. Yes there are class stat lines but you have entire builds where people do not use hardly any of their actually class skills.

Siohwenoeht

Unseelie wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I think folks are missing the point that was made about Bards in tes universe. It's absolutely true that they exist. It's also true they are NOT the prototypical bard from other tabletop/mmo RPGs.

I can see a bard skill line that provides buffs/debuffs, maybe even alters "charisma" characteristics for npc/justice system interactions, however there's just not enough meat in tes bardic tradition for a full blown class. The npc bards in the single player titles always describe themselves as entertainers and recorders of history.

A tes bard would (and does in the single player titles) use the same weapons that we currently have available for dd and would serve in a buff/debuff role as a support toon.

ESO is the first elder scrolls game to have a hard class structure simply because it's a MMO, but it's the outlier in the series. It shouldn't serve as a vessel to completely rewrite the series lore especially since it serves as a "prequel" game to the single player titles.

Who cares? Seriously who cares if it would be a stretch. We have people expecting Dragon Born bits from the Skyrim chapters. There is enough time between our timeline and the mainline game timeline to steer it toward known lore. Or who cares. When Lord of the Rings online brought in Rune seekers everyone lost their mind that it would kill lore and then after a while it didn't and nobody cared. And how is it considered a hard class line when you have mages and night blades able to tank as well as any other class. Yes there are class stat lines but you have entire builds where people do not use hardly any of their actually class skills.

I'd counter that why would you care if tes bards are different than d&d bards?

For example, Necromancer should have been a skill line instead of a class as well. Actually, necromancer as it is should've never been released as it doesn't even follow the abilities of npc necromancers in-game. Regardless, necromancer as a skill line open to all classes would have better fit how tes games have historically worked. There are too many classes as it is.

Also, we do have hard classes, just not hard roles. Even then, some classes are excellent at certain roles where others are barely adequate. Just because any class can perform any role doesn't mean they're all equal to the task.

Unseelie

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Unseelie wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I think folks are missing the point that was made about Bards in tes universe. It's absolutely true that they exist. It's also true they are NOT the prototypical bard from other tabletop/mmo RPGs.

I can see a bard skill line that provides buffs/debuffs, maybe even alters "charisma" characteristics for npc/justice system interactions, however there's just not enough meat in tes bardic tradition for a full blown class. The npc bards in the single player titles always describe themselves as entertainers and recorders of history.

A tes bard would (and does in the single player titles) use the same weapons that we currently have available for dd and would serve in a buff/debuff role as a support toon.

ESO is the first elder scrolls game to have a hard class structure simply because it's a MMO, but it's the outlier in the series. It shouldn't serve as a vessel to completely rewrite the series lore especially since it serves as a "prequel" game to the single player titles.

Who cares? Seriously who cares if it would be a stretch. We have people expecting Dragon Born bits from the Skyrim chapters. There is enough time between our timeline and the mainline game timeline to steer it toward known lore. Or who cares. When Lord of the Rings online brought in Rune seekers everyone lost their mind that it would kill lore and then after a while it didn't and nobody cared. And how is it considered a hard class line when you have mages and night blades able to tank as well as any other class. Yes there are class stat lines but you have entire builds where people do not use hardly any of their actually class skills.

I'd counter that why would you care if tes bards are different than d&d bards?

For example, Necromancer should have been a skill line instead of a class as well. Actually, necromancer as it is should've never been released as it doesn't even follow the abilities of npc necromancers in-game. Regardless, necromancer as a skill line open to all classes would have better fit how tes games have historically worked. There are too many classes as it is.

Also, we do have hard classes, just not hard roles. Even then, some classes are excellent at certain roles where others are barely adequate. Just because any class can perform any role doesn't mean they're all equal to the task.

I can't fathom the thought that there are enough classes. How is more choice and variety a bad thing?
And why is D&D continually being brought up? The only good bards in D&D were first edition.
A new class with a different flavor could not be a bad thing. Warden and Necromancer could easily be called Mage spin off classes because they are very similar with different effects. Bard would be a mix of NB and Mage

Siohwenoeht

Unseelie wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Unseelie wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I think folks are missing the point that was made about Bards in tes universe. It's absolutely true that they exist. It's also true they are NOT the prototypical bard from other tabletop/mmo RPGs.

I can see a bard skill line that provides buffs/debuffs, maybe even alters "charisma" characteristics for npc/justice system interactions, however there's just not enough meat in tes bardic tradition for a full blown class. The npc bards in the single player titles always describe themselves as entertainers and recorders of history.

A tes bard would (and does in the single player titles) use the same weapons that we currently have available for dd and would serve in a buff/debuff role as a support toon.

ESO is the first elder scrolls game to have a hard class structure simply because it's a MMO, but it's the outlier in the series. It shouldn't serve as a vessel to completely rewrite the series lore especially since it serves as a "prequel" game to the single player titles.

Who cares? Seriously who cares if it would be a stretch. We have people expecting Dragon Born bits from the Skyrim chapters. There is enough time between our timeline and the mainline game timeline to steer it toward known lore. Or who cares. When Lord of the Rings online brought in Rune seekers everyone lost their mind that it would kill lore and then after a while it didn't and nobody cared. And how is it considered a hard class line when you have mages and night blades able to tank as well as any other class. Yes there are class stat lines but you have entire builds where people do not use hardly any of their actually class skills.

I'd counter that why would you care if tes bards are different than d&d bards?

For example, Necromancer should have been a skill line instead of a class as well. Actually, necromancer as it is should've never been released as it doesn't even follow the abilities of npc necromancers in-game. Regardless, necromancer as a skill line open to all classes would have better fit how tes games have historically worked. There are too many classes as it is.

Also, we do have hard classes, just not hard roles. Even then, some classes are excellent at certain roles where others are barely adequate. Just because any class can perform any role doesn't mean they're all equal to the task.

I can't fathom the thought that there are enough classes. How is more choice and variety a bad thing?
And why is D&D continually being brought up? The only good bards in D&D were first edition.
A new class with a different flavor could not be a bad thing. Warden and Necromancer could easily be called Mage spin off classes because they are very similar with different effects. Bard would be a mix of NB and Mage

The argument is that there shouldn't have been classes to begin with. If every class was a skill line that you can pick abilities from, the variety could be potentially endless. Even then, you can absolutely tell that each of the classes have become more homogenized to the point they are almost the same with simply reskinned abilities.

Anhedonie

They could actually implement bards, but as you said, the focus won't be on singing and stuff. Just a mix of weaponry and enhancing magic.

DBZVelena

And everybody forgot the house of Reveries. *sniff*

imo, i'd prefer the single skill line approach for bards. Then i wouldn't have to reroll my healer. I could just do that quest line, unlock the skills and add them to my build as needed/useful.

And yes i do think a skill line dedicated to buffs/debuffs could be fun. And might help both dps builds as well as tank or healing builds. Balance might be interesting, but if the numbers were dependant on how high in the skill line you are. would at least make it so that only dedicated to getting those skills some use would do it.

Do i think there's no room for a full bard class? No, if the devs are creative enough to turn necromancy in to a full class. they can do so with Bard too. But it might make things harder to balance, since its 3 times as many skills and passives.

In the end it is ZoS choice.

Unseelie

I am sincerely curious what caused everyone to crawl out of the woodwork to rage on the a bard class. Did this happen when Necro was hinted at or any other class?

I mean, we have established that yes bards exist.
Yes there is even a bard college and a skill listed (the spectral drum that buffs)
We also see that bards were similar to rogues. And we see that they also had an illusion skill line.
Everything else is filling in lines and creative vision.

There is even history of tonal architecture and sword singing, affecting reality via sound

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Tonal_Architecture

Unseelie

Certain people are obsessed with Jaskier/Dandelion or Alan a Dale version of bards up in here. Bards and Skalds in history and lore were far more than just bar musicians.

Bradyfjord

ESO is an MMO. While it's setting is Tamriel, it must still be a good game. Good games don't have overlap in their classes. Each choice needs to be unique.

An example of a successfully implemented (MMO)Bard was in EQ1. They could fight and cast a few spells, but had buffs unique to them. Their unique buffs were why people wanted a few in every raid. Some of their buffs included:

• Increased overland walking speed (no mounts in those days)
• Improved defense/offense for their allies.
• Improved resource sustain for their allies (recharging mana/stamina took a long time in that game).

All of these mechanics are already covered by various skill lines introduced in ESO. I wouldn't tell someone how to play, but there are several ways to rp/play a bard that works. You could use existing mechanics and costumes/motifs to play a bard.

TL;DR- In ESO, there is little reason to have a class based around support/buffs for allies. These buffs have already been in the game, and most can be gained through non-class specific ways (Alchemy/Provisioning).

jircris11

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

...and a D&D class like the Bard just would not thematically fit Elder Scrolls.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Classes#Bard
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Classes
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Bard
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Bard
...you were saying?

But yeah, it is quite true that in the elder scrolls universe "bards" are... all-rounder characters focussing on social interaction and storytelling. With a mix of rogueish and magical skills.

BUT!

It is a very, very small step from "casting spells through mystic gestures and mumbles incantations" to "casting spells through playing musical instruments and singing"!
And thus... as long as any such "spellsongs" still use magica to power their effects... its well within the elder scrolls understanding of bards! And if ZOS so chooses, they can pick up the concept and run with it, a great many people (as you noted) would be happy to see it (and pay for it). Me, I hope they will, as a guild skill line akin to Psijic... but then I would, would I not: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387560/additional-guild-ideas-mk-ii

Bards where more typically assassins

Unseelie

Bradyfjord wrote: »

ESO is an MMO. While it's setting is Tamriel, it must still be a good game. Good games don't have overlap in their classes. Each choice needs to be unique.

An example of a successfully implemented (MMO)Bard was in EQ1. They could fight and cast a few spells, but had buffs unique to them. Their unique buffs were why people wanted a few in every raid. Some of their buffs included:

• Increased overland walking speed (no mounts in those days)
• Improved defense/offense for their allies.
• Improved resource sustain for their allies (recharging mana/stamina took a long time in that game).

All of these mechanics are already covered by various skill lines introduced in ESO. I wouldn't tell someone how to play, but there are several ways to rp/play a bard that works. You could use existing mechanics and costumes/motifs to play a bard.

TL;DR- In ESO, there is little reason to have a class based around support/buffs for allies. These buffs have already been in the game, and most can be gained through non-class specific ways (Alchemy/Provisioning).

By that logic why do we have Nightblades? Anyone can steal, anyone can assassinate, anyone can stealth. What do they bring that is unique? Anyone can role play a Nightblade.
What do necromancers bring that you can not get from Wardens and Mages?
LotRO bards while some of their effects are silly and they do have some buffs, also have a vast array of offense.
Again it strikes me as rather daft that a percentage of people are so against something new and another choice.

Bradyfjord

Unseelie wrote: »

By that logic why do we have Nightblades? Anyone can steal, anyone can assassinate, anyone can stealth. What do they bring that is unique? Anyone can role play a Nightblade.
What do necromancers bring that you can not get from Wardens and Mages?
LotRO bards while some of their effects are silly and they do have some buffs, also have a vast array of offense.
Again it strikes me as rather daft that a percentage of people are so against something new and another choice.

They each bring unique mechanics and interactions. The point of classes is to bring something unique with their package of abilities. Some of this has been eroded with homogenization unfortunately.

Unless they are bringing in new buffs/debuffs for bards to do, there is little reason to bring the bard as a class into the game. You already can play a bard if you choose. It would be unfortunate to see the classes lose what they have so another weak class could be added to the game.

If they did bring in a bard class, I hope it would be with a new mechanic.

Unseelie

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Unseelie wrote: »

By that logic why do we have Nightblades? Anyone can steal, anyone can assassinate, anyone can stealth. What do they bring that is unique? Anyone can role play a Nightblade.
What do necromancers bring that you can not get from Wardens and Mages?
LotRO bards while some of their effects are silly and they do have some buffs, also have a vast array of offense.
Again it strikes me as rather daft that a percentage of people are so against something new and another choice.

They each bring unique mechanics and interactions. The point of classes is to bring something unique with their package of abilities. Some of this has been eroded with homogenization unfortunately.

Unless they are bringing in new buffs/debuffs for bards to do, there is little reason to bring the bard as a class into the game. You already can play a bard if you choose. It would be unfortunate to see the classes lose what they have so another weak class could be added to the game.

If they did bring in a bard class, I hope it would be with a new mechanic.

Absolutely a new mechanic or something new to the table is I would think what anyone would want in any new class. Even if it is more flavor than substance.

Iccotak

@Unseelie
We're not against something new to choose from.
We have already pointed out viable skills & abilities from Elder Scroll games that would be interesting to have.

What we're saying is that the Bard class that you're looking for - the one that uses Music themed magical abilities like a Bard inspiration song - is not something TES Bards actually do.
They are primarily Illusion/Alteration users that had benefits to the speech system. None of their magical abilities involved them singing or playing an instrument.

Yes, TES was originally conceived as a tabletop RPG, a D&D setting, but at this point the current setting of ES video games is not compatible with the modern D&D class system.
That is why homemade tabletop Elder Scroll game often don't use 5E D&D, or they often have to heavily modify it.

Bradyfjord

Unseelie wrote: »

Absolutely a new mechanic or something new to the table is I would think what anyone would want in any new class. Even if it is more flavor than substance.

Hopefully the new mechanic will be interesting to use. Necros, as the exist in ESO, aren't what I was hoping for in terms of 'gameplay depth'. Warden is fine, but just barely.

Unseelie

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Unseelie wrote: »

Absolutely a new mechanic or something new to the table is I would think what anyone would want in any new class. Even if it is more flavor than substance.

Hopefully the new mechanic will be interesting to use. Necros, as the exist in ESO, aren't what I was hoping for in terms of 'gameplay depth'. Warden is fine, but just barely.

My problem with Wardens is that their skills are kind of all the same and i think that is the same with alot of classes. I would like some cosmetic variation. Perhaps "Warden animation pack 1 , 2, and 3" which changes the colors of your effects and changes your bear. Or something similar for Necros, Mages and others.

Unseelie

Iccotak wrote: »

@Unseelie
We're not against something new to choose from.
We have already pointed out viable skills & abilities from Elder Scroll games that would be interesting to have.

What we're saying is that the Bard class that you're looking for - the one that uses Music themed magical abilities like a Bard inspiration song - is not something TES Bards actually do.
They are primarily Illusion/Alteration users that had benefits to the speech system. None of their magical abilities involved them singing or playing an instrument.

Yes, TES was originally conceived as a tabletop RPG, a D&D setting, but at this point the current setting of ES video games is not compatible with the modern D&D class system.
That is why homemade tabletop Elder Scroll game often don't use 5E D&D, or they often have to heavily modify it.

Again, where did I or anyone mention musical abilities? It keeps being mentioned but I know I sure did not mention it.
There is more to bards than that. NOBODY but the OP brought up D&D. Alot could be done with an illusion line as well as other known and acknowledged skills that exist in ES

Thevampirenight

Given the pattern when it comes to chapters. Morrowind gave us a new class Summerset didn't it gave us a new skill line. Then Elswyer gave us Necromancers. Which means that Skyrim whatever they are doing for that will not be a class. Given what we know now its likely the dlc or chapters will be located in the Pale/Winterhold or White Run reigion. Mainly I think the Pale. Dawnstar.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/507380/thanks-to-alcast-we-got-a-map-of-the-secret-coded-message-map-seems-to-suggest-the-pale-dawnstar/p1
Someone made mention in that decipher thread about this map looking like it had several dwemer ruin entrances I made the connection that it could be the pale so I did make that thread several days or more ago.. Where those entrances are it seems would be in the pale reigion. The map looks to be more of the Pale maybe even Winterhold reigions. While the black marker could be a falmer ruin or white run. Since we do know there might be cave theme to this. So the skilline will have to relate to the Pale,Winterhold region or white run region. Bards College isn't in those reigions maybe it could be in this era but in the forth its solely in solitude. Going by what makes chapters differant, is they add a new class or skill line or skill lines. This I think will be what we are going to see in Skyrim Dark Heart. Otherwise they couldn't have the excuse not to sell it as a chapter.

Bards would have to be done to make them unique enough to stand out and fit as a class one possiblties is they could do it like they did the warden base it on a concept. Warden was Bosmeri Green and Y'ffre related. They could base it on music altering reality or something. Maybe like the Dwemer were able to do. Maybe a Lost Dwemeri art that was recovered somehow. Even with the race being gone maybe some of their lost magical arts have been recovered and revived. Something like that would be how I think they would play it if they did do it.

There are several possibilities of what they might do. If they got for the demand for playable vampire lords I see vampire lords more likely then the bard class for Skyrim I don't think they are going to do vampire lord but there is always that possibility. I personally wish for Werebears. But if not that there is also the Sword And Rune Skill line plus maybe a form of spellcrafting they could do. Otherwise I don't know what they could add to this chapter as a skill line. I'm sure they have come up with something though. They kinda have to make it more then just a dlc which it truly is but under a different name.

Deter1UK

VaranisArano wrote: »

For that matter, Tamriel is a fantasy RPG that came out of the developers' interest in pen-and-paper RPG games. Did you really expect there wouldn't be substantial influence from D&D lurking in every nook and cranny?

Much more Runequest in style than D&D I think.

There is space for a Bard's Guild but it's not a class in TES (so far).

I do miss the four schools of Magica though. BTW Almeras's Lantern makes for a decent light spell on a quickslot for loot hunting in gloomy corners - and doesn't take up a slot on your bar.

MrGhosty

If it's a new class that does something fun and interesting to play, I don't really care what was substantiated prior. The ideal would be to drop classes altogether and allow players to mix and match to their hearts content but we won't get that. So if we want new stuff to play with it needs to either be a skill line or a class.

I think a bard line would make sense as a guild line ala psjiic. It could draw from all the different storytellers across tamriel and could be illusion/alteration based. I don't think Zos has any interest in just applying the schools of magic because they've already cannibalized so much to make the current skills and class we have now. Putting illusion/alteration under a header of "Bard" would open these schools up to use and give them a bit of thematic flare much in the way the pjsiic line did with their skills.

Loves_guars

I really don't understand the point of this thread, other than pure hate. You are almost making me assume that a bard class or skill line has been leaked in datamine, because it makes even less sense that you start a thread only to hate in other's players interests and wishes.
Second: Lore is important, but it can always be expanded. Yes maybe the bards you know from Skyrim aren't like D&D but they perfectly can be, or be another new brand thing too.
Third: You realize non of the classes has any relation to TES games, right? In fact, the very concept of class goes against it.
So, again, I don't understand this. It just reads "hate" to me.

Thevampirenight

We did get warden and necromancer. Players wanted Necromancers. But Warden was something that was left over from beta. It was the nature class they gave it a unique chapter theme vibe to it and then released it. If bard is highly in demand they might find some way to add it as the next class next year. If the pattern of class releases holds. As for this year I really doubt we will see such a class. Given were just given the Necromancer.

TheNuminous1

Correct me if im wrong but isnt the maw of lorkahj dungeon filled with singing priests that use songmagic?

Iccotak

@Loves_guars
- No this is not a hate thread, don't go making an assumptions or throwing accusations. Also looking at all the existing classes - they all have pre-existing lore that supports them.

@Thevampirenight
Necromancers - while one aspect of conjuration - have enough content & research that an entire class based on the practice is not at all a stretch.
In ES titles we run into plenty of baddies that are purely Necromancer, so a pure necromancer class fits.
Also Necromancer abilities didn't fit any of the existing class themes except maybe the Sorcerer.

@TheNuminous1
Yes there are song priests who use existing magic schools (Conjuration, Alteration, illusion, Destruction, etc ) with their cultural practice of the arts like song, and sometimes painting.
These are for rituals, cultural practice & tradition. Not necessarily something that would be used as a class. Hence why many instances of "Art magic" are mementos.

I myself have a D&D Sorcerer character that imbues art into his spells but like I said that doesn't mean that is something that should be in ESO.

TheNuminous1

Iccotak wrote: »

@Loves_guars
- No this is not a hate thread, don't go making an assumptions or throwing accusations. Also looking at all the existing classes - they all have pre-existing lore that supports them.

@Thevampirenight
Necromancers - while one aspect of conjuration - have enough content & research that an entire class based on the practice is not at all a stretch.
In ES titles we run into plenty of baddies that are purely Necromancer, so a pure necromancer class fits.
Also Necromancer abilities didn't fit any of the existing class themes except maybe the Sorcerer.

@TheNuminous1
Yes there are song priests who use existing magic schools (Conjuration, Alteration, illusion, Destruction, etc ) with their cultural practice of the arts like song, and sometimes painting.
These are for rituals, cultural practice & tradition. Not necessarily something that would be used as a class. Hence why many instances of "Art magic" are mementos.

I myself have a D&D Sorcerer character that imbues art into his spells but like I said that doesn't mean that is something that should be in ESO.

Hmmm while i understand your take on the songmages as cultural, thats just a khajiit aspect. Bosmer have spinners, and im sure lots of other races have different cultural bards.

But templars use aedric magic. Which not all races follow or adhere too. Why would a Dunmer use Aedric light? So that same rule of thumb would go toward a bard class using different cultures magic.

And honestly. To be frank. There is 0 harm that would come to any single person that does not want a bard class, if they made one.

All it would do is make alot of people happy. If you have such strong feeling towards a videogames classes and are vehemently apposed to a Bardic Class.

Then just dont play it.

Iccotak

@TheNuminous1
I do not mean to leave the impression that this is a big issue.
For me this comes down more to talking with people who may be new to the game and have expectations of what the universe could offer based on an experience from a tabletop game. So this post is more about tempering expectations with no intention of "Hating" on what others like.

On the note of Aedric magic - if you examine the various culture - they all have some form of connection to aedric beings. Some cultures worship the same gods by different names (Elves & Men can't seem to understand that *sigh*) while others have found other types of connections to them.
Examples:
- Dark Elves in the 2nd era worship the Tribunal of Almalexia, Vivec, and Sotha Sil. All God-like beings who retain powers related to Aedra. It isn't until around the late 3rd - to early 4th era that Dunmer returned to worshipping the original Tribunal of Daedric Princes.
- Argonians practice sun magic which was taught to them by the Hist. Sun worship is a part of their culture.

This is why I am sufficed with instrument emotes if I want to roleplay a bard because a class can't account for the other forms of cultural expression. Argonians & Khajiit have different bardic traditions

TheNuminous1

Iccotak wrote: »

@TheNuminous1
I do not mean to leave the impression that this is a big issue.
For me this comes down more to talking with people who may be new to the game and have expectations of what the universe could offer based on an experience from a tabletop game. So this post is more about tempering expectations with no intention of "Hating" on what others like.

On the note of Aedric magic - if you examine the various culture - they all have some form of connection to aedric beings. Some cultures worship the same gods by different names (Elves & Men can't seem to understand that *sigh*) while others have found other types of connections to them.
Examples:
- Dark Elves in the 2nd era worship the Tribunal of Almalexia, Vivec, and Sotha Sil. All God-like beings who retain powers related to Aedra. It isn't until around the late 3rd - to early 4th era that Dunmer returned to worshipping the original Tribunal of Daedric Princes.
- Argonians practice sun magic which was taught to them by the Hist. Sun worship is a part of their culture.

This is why I am sufficed with instrument emotes if I want to roleplay a bard because a class can't account for the other forms of cultural expression. Argonians & Khajiit have different bardic traditions

Also just as clarification I am perfectly happy playing a bard with just emotes id much rather see some other form of class or skill line. Preferably spellcrafting.