There are no decisions that affect the flow in ESO quests though. You've sacrificed Sai? Nope, he is back alive and kicking.
And the story can be affected negatively by the lack of combat difficulty. When yet another "Greatest Threat to All of Tamriel™" falls over dead before they can finish their first line you just stop believing the story. Regardless of how well it's written, it just doesn't work anymore.
So long as its optional and offers no better rewards than doing the quest normally, got no problem with them adding a hard mode option.
Why would it have to offer the same rewards as regular easy mode? If something is harder then the reward should reflect that. It's part of the incentive in the first place to make you want to do something the harder way. The other reason being the challenge. Option to do it, yes. Same rewards? Nah.
So the idea is not to have more of a challenge but more of a reward it seems. With the logic above it is not the challenge that is desired but the loot.
I said it's part of the incentive. One being the challenge and the other being rewards. Of course what matters most depends on the individual. It's not a binary way of thinking. People can choose to want to do something based on more than more reason, didn't you know?
Ok, I would have thought the ability to have more of a challenge was incentive enough. After all, I raid because I enjoy the challenge of the team improving and getting better scores. It is not because of the gear. That is not the incentive by any means since we keep raiding well after we get the gear.
Not that it matters. As I said, it seems Zos sees one of two problems with this. One could be server load with any design they can come up with for delivering such a thing. The other is it could just be a business decision. After all, challenging overland questing does not seem to be a part of the modern MMORPG design. Probably something worth considering and attempting to address.
Too much trouble, they cannot very well change the world for each placer.So let's have a hard mode for quests ? When the quest starts, you have a choice to start it in hard mode or...
AgaTheGreat wrote: »I am doing Elsweyr main quest and I am sorry but you can't have something interesting if there is no challenge. When everything dies so easily it cannot be interesting. I know this is not a new complaint but the devs really need to do something about that. And main quest enemies are even easier to defeat than normal quests enemies.
So let's have a hard mode for quests ? When the quest starts, you have a choice to start it in hard mode or normal mode. In hard mode, enemies should have more health and deal more damage and even have their skills rearranged to offer a greater challenge(let's say 4men dungeon life and damage). There could also be a hardcore mode where if you die just once after starting the quest, the quest resets and you have to start over from the beginning. And of course there could be many new achievements linked to that hard mode. Rewards could be rearranged too.
It's so sad to see all these quests and being forced to play "very easy" mode all the time. Make it a DLC if you want and I would buy it.
Overland and quests are not meant to be challenging. They're designed for the average player that comes here to discover sights, do some quests, kill some mobs and pick flowers.
If you're looking for challenge there's veteran maelstrom arena and veteran dungeons and trials.
If it’s so logistically difficult to do we could just up the difficulty for all! The naysayers here are actually insulting new players - do they not have the same capacity as the rest of us to learn and improve? This decade has seen a whole lot of games launched with full-on hand-holding and golden breadcrumb trails, but also the soulsborne games and their ilk, which nicely demonstrates my point that something being more difficult is not in fact niche or unappealing to a broad market.
All the newer eso (non dungeon/trial) content is completely unmemorable because you can just blast through it with your eyes shut. Quest bosses don’t even finish their trash talking before they die!
redgreensunset wrote: »If it’s so logistically difficult to do we could just up the difficulty for all! The naysayers here are actually insulting new players - do they not have the same capacity as the rest of us to learn and improve? This decade has seen a whole lot of games launched with full-on hand-holding and golden breadcrumb trails, but also the soulsborne games and their ilk, which nicely demonstrates my point that something being more difficult is not in fact niche or unappealing to a broad market.
All the newer eso (non dungeon/trial) content is completely unmemorable because you can just blast through it with your eyes shut. Quest bosses don’t even finish their trash talking before they die!
No. And it's nothing to do with that. Some of us prefer that quest/story content not be difficult as we do that for the story itself and not for having difficult battles. It's memorable for the story, that's what I want it to be. If I want memorable battles I go do some content that have that, such as dungeons or trials. I do not want it in my stories.
So no, just no.
And I am one of those new players.
No. Do-only-once quests should never have any unique rewards that are impossible to get by doing the quest with another difficulty. And what about those who already done these quests? Should they be unable to get these rewards?Yes, the option to have a hard-mode version with better (or unique) rewards would be awesome.
oxygen_thief wrote: »you have a misconception about what is a quest. quest is a story and decisions which affect it's flow not a trial of your combat skills. from the other side if quest is badly written people skip dialogues and search for a fightI am doing Elsweyr main quest and I am sorry but you can't have something interesting if there is no challenge.
There are no decisions that affect the flow in ESO quests though. You've sacrificed Sai? Nope, he is back alive and kicking.
And the story can be affected negatively by the lack of combat difficulty. When yet another "Greatest Threat to All of Tamriel™" falls over dead before they can finish their first line you just stop believing the story. Regardless of how well it's written, it just doesn't work anymore.
So long as its optional and offers no better rewards than doing the quest normally, got no problem with them adding a hard mode option.
Why would it have to offer the same rewards as regular easy mode? If something is harder then the reward should reflect that. It's part of the incentive in the first place to make you want to do something the harder way. The other reason being the challenge. Option to do it, yes. Same rewards? Nah.
So the idea is not to have more of a challenge but more of a reward it seems. With the logic above it is not the challenge that is desired but the loot.
I said it's part of the incentive. One being the challenge and the other being rewards. Of course what matters most depends on the individual. It's not a binary way of thinking. People can choose to want to do something based on more than more reason, didn't you know?
Ok, I would have thought the ability to have more of a challenge was incentive enough. After all, I raid because I enjoy the challenge of the team improving and getting better scores. It is not because of the gear. That is not the incentive by any means since we keep raiding well after we get the gear.
Not that it matters. As I said, it seems Zos sees one of two problems with this. One could be server load with any design they can come up with for delivering such a thing. The other is it could just be a business decision. After all, challenging overland questing does not seem to be a part of the modern MMORPG design. Probably something worth considering and attempting to address.
Yeah sometimes just the challenge is enough. But it's a pretty common practice in MMO's to be heavily reward based. Improving your gear via various methods, better gear only obtained through harder content is obviously a big part of that improvement.
Not sure ZOS would ever consider doing something along the lines as OP suggested, but it's a good idea anyway in my opinion. As long as it's optional as already mentioned.
DaveMoeDee wrote: »Do you need a book to be hard to understand to enjoy it? I'm not opposed to hard mode. I just find the generalized logic absurd.
The suggestion of the OP is not doable. The game can't change the stats of quest mobs based on what I select. They can only change my stats. I am sharing the world with other people. In fact, I can kill a mob without even picking up a quests that also involves killing that mob. And what about all the mobs I pass along the way. I also have 20 quests open at the same time. Most towns have at least 2 quests you could be doing at the same time. They could be a mix of hard and normal. How is that managed?
If we are going to suggest a design, in needs to be something possible in this game. There is zero chance they give every player their own instance of whatever zone they are in and that is the only way this is possible.
And even if this was possible, your hard mode boss would die in a few seconds when a bunch of other players are doing the same quest at the same time.
redgreensunset wrote: »
No it shouldn't. OP is specifically asking for harder enemies in the story, so yeah that book analogy was spot on, story rewards shouldn't differ as you can onlt do stories (ie non daily quests) once.
I am doing Elsweyr main quest and I am sorry but you can't have something interesting if there is no challenge. When everything dies so easily it cannot be interesting. I know this is not a new complaint but the devs really need to do something about that. And main quest enemies are even easier to defeat than normal quests enemies.
So let's have a hard mode for quests ? When the quest starts, you have a choice to start it in hard mode or normal mode. In hard mode, enemies should have more health and deal more damage and even have their skills rearranged to offer a greater challenge(let's say 4men dungeon life and damage). There could also be a hardcore mode where if you die just once after starting the quest, the quest resets and you have to start over from the beginning. And of course there could be many new achievements linked to that hard mode. Rewards could be rearranged too.
It's so sad to see all these quests and being forced to play "very easy" mode all the time. Make it a DLC if you want and I would buy it.
redgreensunset wrote: »If it’s so logistically difficult to do we could just up the difficulty for all! The naysayers here are actually insulting new players - do they not have the same capacity as the rest of us to learn and improve? This decade has seen a whole lot of games launched with full-on hand-holding and golden breadcrumb trails, but also the soulsborne games and their ilk, which nicely demonstrates my point that something being more difficult is not in fact niche or unappealing to a broad market.
All the newer eso (non dungeon/trial) content is completely unmemorable because you can just blast through it with your eyes shut. Quest bosses don’t even finish their trash talking before they die!
No. And it's nothing to do with that. Some of us prefer that quest/story content not be difficult as we do that for the story itself and not for having difficult battles. It's memorable for the story, that's what I want it to be. If I want memorable battles I go do some content that have that, such as dungeons or trials. I do not want it in my stories.
So no, just no.
And I am one of those new players.
If it was optional though then it would not concern you. How new are you? Because if you have all your CP then normal world mobs are just brain dead boring. You will soon feel a need for a little spice after 1 million npcs slaughtered with your eyes shut. I love the story also, that is why I quest, but hell, if there was a little danger here and there as well I'd welcome it!
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
DaveMoeDee wrote: »Do you need a book to be hard to understand to enjoy it? I'm not opposed to hard mode. I just find the generalized logic absurd.
The suggestion of the OP is not doable. The game can't change the stats of quest mobs based on what I select. They can only change my stats. I am sharing the world with other people. In fact, I can kill a mob without even picking up a quests that also involves killing that mob. And what about all the mobs I pass along the way. I also have 20 quests open at the same time. Most towns have at least 2 quests you could be doing at the same time. They could be a mix of hard and normal. How is that managed?
If we are going to suggest a design, in needs to be something possible in this game. There is zero chance they give every player their own instance of whatever zone they are in and that is the only way this is possible.
And even if this was possible, your hard mode boss would die in a few seconds when a bunch of other players are doing the same quest at the same time.
Wow, your analogy with a book is so bad. We are talking gameplay, challenges to overcome, you know, video games. It's like you're saying "do you need your opponent to be a good player to enjoy a chess game?". Of course the opponent needs to be a good player.
The problems you speak about could be solved. For example there could only be one hard mode quest active at a time, and enemies would do normal damage to players around that don't have the quest activated in hard mode, etc.. No one is asking to have a new instance for every player. And after all it's a mmo, if people want to band together to defeat some hard to kill boss, then let them do it. That's not the problem. But you have to admit that even in instances created for the player during a quest, where he is alone, enemies are too easy to defeat, there is no challenge at all.
redgreensunset wrote: »If it’s so logistically difficult to do we could just up the difficulty for all! The naysayers here are actually insulting new players - do they not have the same capacity as the rest of us to learn and improve? This decade has seen a whole lot of games launched with full-on hand-holding and golden breadcrumb trails, but also the soulsborne games and their ilk, which nicely demonstrates my point that something being more difficult is not in fact niche or unappealing to a broad market.
All the newer eso (non dungeon/trial) content is completely unmemorable because you can just blast through it with your eyes shut. Quest bosses don’t even finish their trash talking before they die!
No. And it's nothing to do with that. Some of us prefer that quest/story content not be difficult as we do that for the story itself and not for having difficult battles. It's memorable for the story, that's what I want it to be. If I want memorable battles I go do some content that have that, such as dungeons or trials. I do not want it in my stories.
So no, just no.
And I am one of those new players.
If it was optional though then it would not concern you. How new are you? Because if you have all your CP then normal world mobs are just brain dead boring. You will soon feel a need for a little spice after 1 million npcs slaughtered with your eyes shut. I love the story also, that is why I quest, but hell, if there was a little danger here and there as well I'd welcome it!
I am doing Elsweyr main quest and I am sorry but you can't have something interesting if there is no challenge. When everything dies so easily it cannot be interesting. I know this is not a new complaint but the devs really need to do something about that. And main quest enemies are even easier to defeat than normal quests enemies.
So let's have a hard mode for quests ? When the quest starts, you have a choice to start it in hard mode or normal mode. In hard mode, enemies should have more health and deal more damage and even have their skills rearranged to offer a greater challenge(let's say 4men dungeon life and damage). There could also be a hardcore mode where if you die just once after starting the quest, the quest resets and you have to start over from the beginning. And of course there could be many new achievements linked to that hard mode. Rewards could be rearranged too.
It's so sad to see all these quests and being forced to play "very easy" mode all the time. Make it a DLC if you want and I would buy it.
I would agree that this game's landscape content needs an optional veteran version. It's too easy, currently. But I don't like the idea of turning into some kind of course the player has to start over if they die. That sounds like it could get annoying.
It would be sufficient for me just to scale the monsters adequately to where they posed enough of a threat to challenge players, instead of us just being able to mindlessly kill them.