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Let's have a hard mode for quests ?

  • oxygen_thief
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    Royaji wrote: »
    There are no decisions that affect the flow in ESO quests though. You've sacrificed Sai? Nope, he is back alive and kicking.

    And the story can be affected negatively by the lack of combat difficulty. When yet another "Greatest Threat to All of Tamriel™" falls over dead before they can finish their first line you just stop believing the story. Regardless of how well it's written, it just doesn't work anymore.

    ive never said that eso has good quests. its a trash game as for me a cashgrab. pvp is the only interesting part but its broken
    Edited by oxygen_thief on December 8, 2019 12:03PM
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  • Neoealth
    Neoealth
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    idk wrote: »
    Neoealth wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Neoealth wrote: »
    bmnoble wrote: »
    So long as its optional and offers no better rewards than doing the quest normally, got no problem with them adding a hard mode option.

    Why would it have to offer the same rewards as regular easy mode? If something is harder then the reward should reflect that. It's part of the incentive in the first place to make you want to do something the harder way. The other reason being the challenge. Option to do it, yes. Same rewards? Nah.

    So the idea is not to have more of a challenge but more of a reward it seems. With the logic above it is not the challenge that is desired but the loot.

    I said it's part of the incentive. One being the challenge and the other being rewards. Of course what matters most depends on the individual. It's not a binary way of thinking. People can choose to want to do something based on more than more reason, didn't you know? :)

    Ok, I would have thought the ability to have more of a challenge was incentive enough. After all, I raid because I enjoy the challenge of the team improving and getting better scores. It is not because of the gear. That is not the incentive by any means since we keep raiding well after we get the gear.

    Not that it matters. As I said, it seems Zos sees one of two problems with this. One could be server load with any design they can come up with for delivering such a thing. The other is it could just be a business decision. After all, challenging overland questing does not seem to be a part of the modern MMORPG design. Probably something worth considering and attempting to address.

    Yeah sometimes just the challenge is enough. But it's a pretty common practice in MMO's to be heavily reward based. Improving your gear via various methods, better gear only obtained through harder content is obviously a big part of that improvement.

    Not sure ZOS would ever consider doing something along the lines as OP suggested, but it's a good idea anyway in my opinion. As long as it's optional as already mentioned.
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  • chetter_hummin
    chetter_hummin
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    remove CPs and gear, keep only weapon of choice in bad trait, white and lvl 1 and abilities. change to bad mundus. there u go. hard mode. For example I use my no cp pvp chara for questing with an addon for questing gear and no cps all the time. is pretty challenging :)
    Edited by chetter_hummin on December 8, 2019 12:29PM
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  • Olauron
    Olauron
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    Talk is cheap. I would gladly watch a video of Kaalgrontiid at the end of Year of the Dragon quest line fall dead before he finishes first line.
    The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
    One mer to rule them all,
    one mer to find them,
    One mer to bring them all
    and in the darkness bind them.
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  • Scottfree2
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    Gotta agree that overland presents no challenges to high cp chars, but i have run around on my lvl 50 chars w no cp points, and it is somewhat more difficult .. so the suggestion to be able to turn cp points on or off seems a viable option to me.

    Cba resetting cp points regularly but a simple switch to disable or enable, or even the ability to save several different cp points allocations would be a decent quality of life change so u could switch between depending on what u were doing.
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  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
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    Czinczar wrote: »
    So let's have a hard mode for quests ? When the quest starts, you have a choice to start it in hard mode or...
    Too much trouble, they cannot very well change the world for each placer.
    But...
    ...they could change each player for the world!

    They -could- implement a "handicap setting", that lowers your full combat power, but raises your rewards depending on how much of a "handicap" you play with...

    Of course, it would be far more fun if we had softcaps back instead, then we would not see that many "kill everything before they even finish the villain monologing" builds...

    Or if more midbosses had special rules in their fights.

    Oh, well...
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  • FierceSam
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    Czinczar wrote: »
    I am doing Elsweyr main quest and I am sorry but you can't have something interesting if there is no challenge. When everything dies so easily it cannot be interesting. I know this is not a new complaint but the devs really need to do something about that. And main quest enemies are even easier to defeat than normal quests enemies.

    So let's have a hard mode for quests ? When the quest starts, you have a choice to start it in hard mode or normal mode. In hard mode, enemies should have more health and deal more damage and even have their skills rearranged to offer a greater challenge(let's say 4men dungeon life and damage). There could also be a hardcore mode where if you die just once after starting the quest, the quest resets and you have to start over from the beginning. And of course there could be many new achievements linked to that hard mode. Rewards could be rearranged too.

    It's so sad to see all these quests and being forced to play "very easy" mode all the time. Make it a DLC if you want and I would buy it.

    Overland and quests are not meant to be challenging. They're designed for the average player that comes here to discover sights, do some quests, kill some mobs and pick flowers.

    If you're looking for challenge there's veteran maelstrom arena and veteran dungeons and trials.

    Actually, they're not. They are designed for the below average. They are designed to ensure that even very new players with only a rudimentary understanding of how the game works (like we all were when we started) can follow the storyline relatively easily.

    The design skill required is to make it easy enough for these new players so they can actually complete the content and will continue to play the game and move on to more difficult content (delves, World Bosses, dungeons, etc) rather than leave in frustration, AND still enough of a challenge that the majority of players will still feel they have some kind of a fight to deal with.

    Clearly there are some players who have become so adept or have such powerful characters that they don't feel there is any kind of a fight. Maybe the only solution is massive nerfs all round :)
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  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    It already scales, that is the hardness they want the story mode at. Which is fine.
    Main: (PvP & PvE)
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP:
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: (Specialty)
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade

    Leveling...
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
    ======
    Passives of another race used. (RP)
    *Breton
    **Imperial




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion

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  • redgreensunset
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    Jack-0 wrote: »
    If it’s so logistically difficult to do we could just up the difficulty for all! The naysayers here are actually insulting new players - do they not have the same capacity as the rest of us to learn and improve? This decade has seen a whole lot of games launched with full-on hand-holding and golden breadcrumb trails, but also the soulsborne games and their ilk, which nicely demonstrates my point that something being more difficult is not in fact niche or unappealing to a broad market.

    All the newer eso (non dungeon/trial) content is completely unmemorable because you can just blast through it with your eyes shut. Quest bosses don’t even finish their trash talking before they die!

    No. And it's nothing to do with that. Some of us prefer that quest/story content not be difficult as we do that for the story itself and not for having difficult battles. It's memorable for the story, that's what I want it to be. If I want memorable battles I go do some content that have that, such as dungeons or trials. I do not want it in my stories.
    So no, just no.
    And I am one of those new players.
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  • Neoealth
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    Jack-0 wrote: »
    If it’s so logistically difficult to do we could just up the difficulty for all! The naysayers here are actually insulting new players - do they not have the same capacity as the rest of us to learn and improve? This decade has seen a whole lot of games launched with full-on hand-holding and golden breadcrumb trails, but also the soulsborne games and their ilk, which nicely demonstrates my point that something being more difficult is not in fact niche or unappealing to a broad market.

    All the newer eso (non dungeon/trial) content is completely unmemorable because you can just blast through it with your eyes shut. Quest bosses don’t even finish their trash talking before they die!

    No. And it's nothing to do with that. Some of us prefer that quest/story content not be difficult as we do that for the story itself and not for having difficult battles. It's memorable for the story, that's what I want it to be. If I want memorable battles I go do some content that have that, such as dungeons or trials. I do not want it in my stories.
    So no, just no.
    And I am one of those new players.

    If it was optional though then it would not concern you. How new are you? Because if you have all your CP then normal world mobs are just brain dead boring. You will soon feel a need for a little spice after 1 million npcs slaughtered with your eyes shut. I love the story also, that is why I quest, but hell, if there was a little danger here and there as well I'd welcome it!
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  • Adernath
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    Yes, the option to have a hard-mode version with better (or unique) rewards would be awesome.

    Just recently I was in Southern Elsweyr, where I did a dungeon quest just by walking from A to B without being contested by any of the hostile inhabitants ......

    I would love to have all such HM Quests on the same level as -- for example -- Skyreach Catacombs (when running them solo).
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  • Olauron
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    Adernath wrote: »
    Yes, the option to have a hard-mode version with better (or unique) rewards would be awesome.
    No. Do-only-once quests should never have any unique rewards that are impossible to get by doing the quest with another difficulty. And what about those who already done these quests? Should they be unable to get these rewards?

    If additional challenge is not a reward in itself for you then you do not deserve additional developer time on implementing such feature at all.
    The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
    One mer to rule them all,
    one mer to find them,
    One mer to bring them all
    and in the darkness bind them.
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  • alanmatillab16_ESO
    alanmatillab16_ESO
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    How does a new player learn when to block?
    How does a new player learn when to dodge?
    How does a new player learn to not stand in the proverbial fire?
    How does a new player learn what skills are useful?
    How does a new player learn what gear is better?

    They learn through the levelling process so by the time they hit maximum level and start to maybe look at veteran mode instances they have a pretty decent grasp of the above.

    Where this fails is that it doesn't matter if you block, dodge, stand in the fire, use the wrong skills for a situation or wear white quality junk for gear because the levelling process is so easy even without CP that there is no need to learn.

    No one wants every fight with anonymous bandit #253 to be an epic fight. Cannon fodder mobs are there for exactly that purpose: Cannon Fodder but end of questline "bosses" should be a bit more of a challenge in the lower level areas leading up to a damned good fight in the higher level areas.

    Anyone remember the Doshia fight back in beta and when the game was released? That was a pretty much impossible fight until you learned, or looked up, what tactics to use. Even then it still wasn't easy it was pretty much the first time you came across that type of Daedra and lessons learned there certainly helped later on when encountering them as unnamed mobs out in the world. They are now nerfed to the point that you don't need to pop the orbs or avoid the forward cone wave and can just faceroll them down. That has nothing to do with player knowledge as some will claim, it is to do with not needing to learn that knowledge.
    Edited by alanmatillab16_ESO on December 8, 2019 1:59PM
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  • ProfessorKittyhawk
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    Having made a second account and leveling a new character without all the cp and other goodies I have on my main account, quest enemies and what not felt a bit more difficult to take down. Not overly so. But I remember when the game originally came out in 2014 how hard some of the bosses were. Pre-nerf Doshia, Lyris Doppleganger, Mannimarco, heck, even Molag Bal put up a bit more of a fight. I'm not sure how much of it has to do with me/us learning the mechanics and how to fight, but it would be nice if we could have another zone like Craglorn where it's mostly soloable but still a bit of a challenge. Ran through that a while back for the first time and even doing the group content solo was fun and engaging. I understand the difficulty is low on the majority of the game for those who aren't as proficient at it, but having some story content that is still a challenge would be nice and fun for those of us interested in it.
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  • TheFM
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    I just wear gear that doesnt make the game easy for overland

    On my magicka sorc I use, in overland

    Shadow Mundus

    Mad Tinkerer Set in Jewelry and Weapons
    Thunderbug set for body, 5 piece heavy
    and Infernal Guardian

    With that setup i found, even with cp allocated, that the mobs are no longer face roll easy, and some bosses I will actually have to put effort into. Plus its fun to have an army of daedra always swarming around you.
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  • TheFM
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    Royaji wrote: »
    Czinczar wrote: »
    I am doing Elsweyr main quest and I am sorry but you can't have something interesting if there is no challenge.
    you have a misconception about what is a quest. quest is a story and decisions which affect it's flow not a trial of your combat skills. from the other side if quest is badly written people skip dialogues and search for a fight

    There are no decisions that affect the flow in ESO quests though. You've sacrificed Sai? Nope, he is back alive and kicking.

    And the story can be affected negatively by the lack of combat difficulty. When yet another "Greatest Threat to All of Tamriel™" falls over dead before they can finish their first line you just stop believing the story. Regardless of how well it's written, it just doesn't work anymore.

    Certain choices will always be what they build off of, as is with every game ever in TES. Once choice always becomes canon.
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  • idk
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    Neoealth wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Neoealth wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Neoealth wrote: »
    bmnoble wrote: »
    So long as its optional and offers no better rewards than doing the quest normally, got no problem with them adding a hard mode option.

    Why would it have to offer the same rewards as regular easy mode? If something is harder then the reward should reflect that. It's part of the incentive in the first place to make you want to do something the harder way. The other reason being the challenge. Option to do it, yes. Same rewards? Nah.

    So the idea is not to have more of a challenge but more of a reward it seems. With the logic above it is not the challenge that is desired but the loot.

    I said it's part of the incentive. One being the challenge and the other being rewards. Of course what matters most depends on the individual. It's not a binary way of thinking. People can choose to want to do something based on more than more reason, didn't you know? :)

    Ok, I would have thought the ability to have more of a challenge was incentive enough. After all, I raid because I enjoy the challenge of the team improving and getting better scores. It is not because of the gear. That is not the incentive by any means since we keep raiding well after we get the gear.

    Not that it matters. As I said, it seems Zos sees one of two problems with this. One could be server load with any design they can come up with for delivering such a thing. The other is it could just be a business decision. After all, challenging overland questing does not seem to be a part of the modern MMORPG design. Probably something worth considering and attempting to address.

    Yeah sometimes just the challenge is enough. But it's a pretty common practice in MMO's to be heavily reward based. Improving your gear via various methods, better gear only obtained through harder content is obviously a big part of that improvement.

    Not sure ZOS would ever consider doing something along the lines as OP suggested, but it's a good idea anyway in my opinion. As long as it's optional as already mentioned.

    True about risk vs reward. However, it is pretty common practice that open world has one difficulty in major MMORPGs.

    And yes, we are all entitled to our opinion and I could really care less either way. I will say it is good that you are not condescending towards those have posted differing opinions in this thread.
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  • Araneae6537
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    I don’t think that overland should be more difficult, because then just getting from point A to point B or exploring and collecting resources would become a tedious slog. Plus it would definitely hurt new players.

    What I would like to see is delve bosses and especially individually instanced quest areas scale more, including scaling with CP. I would like taking on quests and taking on major enemies to still provide a challenge. I’m there to experience the story but an interesting challenging fight adds to this while the big bad going down effortlessly diminishes it.
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  • NoxFace
    NoxFace
    Soul Shriven
    I won't be coming back to ESO until they fix the end game.

    It needs real end game progression, and a "hard mode"/proper scaling of difficulty for overland and questing.
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  • Sewyr
    Sewyr
    When questing, I literally just swap my main skills on my front bar with random skills I want to level and just spam 1 offensive skill...

    I think atleast a slight difficulty increase would be nice, so that one would just slightly put some effort.
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  • exeeter702
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    bmnoble wrote: »
    So long as its optional and offers no better rewards than doing the quest normally, got no problem with them adding a hard mode option.

    It absolutely should offer better rewards as incentive, wtf...
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  • exeeter702
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Do you need a book to be hard to understand to enjoy it? I'm not opposed to hard mode. I just find the generalized logic absurd.

    The suggestion of the OP is not doable. The game can't change the stats of quest mobs based on what I select. They can only change my stats. I am sharing the world with other people. In fact, I can kill a mob without even picking up a quests that also involves killing that mob. And what about all the mobs I pass along the way. I also have 20 quests open at the same time. Most towns have at least 2 quests you could be doing at the same time. They could be a mix of hard and normal. How is that managed?

    If we are going to suggest a design, in needs to be something possible in this game. There is zero chance they give every player their own instance of whatever zone they are in and that is the only way this is possible.

    And even if this was possible, your hard mode boss would die in a few seconds when a bunch of other players are doing the same quest at the same time.

    Books aren't interactive video games.....
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  • exeeter702
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    MattT1988 wrote: »
    bmnoble wrote: »
    So long as its optional and offers no better rewards than doing the quest normally, got no problem with them adding a hard mode option.

    Harder content should yield better rewards. If a hard mode toggle for quests is implemented, absolutely there should be some better rewards.

    No it shouldn't. OP is specifically asking for harder enemies in the story, so yeah that book analogy was spot on, story rewards shouldn't differ as you can onlt do stories (ie non daily quests) once.

    The analogy was trash because there is still a failure state to questing for a particular demographic of player. Because it's the easiest of pve content doesnt automatically equate it to a "story mode". And even then, it being a "story mode" still has nothing do with a peice of literature or music that is intended to be experienced by the recipient. At the end of the day this is still a video game.
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  • huntgod_ESO
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    As mentioned by a few folks, the OP is asking for a great deal of work to do something they can do themselves.

    If you want a harder experience, use non set items gear, just basic cp160 white armor and weapons with no set bonus, maybe no jewelry at all. Unspend your CP, use abilities that are not optimal but are instead entertaining. Problem solved.

    I would definitely support a toggle for turning CP on and off for free.
    --- HuntGod ---
    Officer of the Unrepentant
    www.unrepentantgaming.com
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  • Jeremy
    Jeremy
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    Czinczar wrote: »
    I am doing Elsweyr main quest and I am sorry but you can't have something interesting if there is no challenge. When everything dies so easily it cannot be interesting. I know this is not a new complaint but the devs really need to do something about that. And main quest enemies are even easier to defeat than normal quests enemies.

    So let's have a hard mode for quests ? When the quest starts, you have a choice to start it in hard mode or normal mode. In hard mode, enemies should have more health and deal more damage and even have their skills rearranged to offer a greater challenge(let's say 4men dungeon life and damage). There could also be a hardcore mode where if you die just once after starting the quest, the quest resets and you have to start over from the beginning. And of course there could be many new achievements linked to that hard mode. Rewards could be rearranged too.

    It's so sad to see all these quests and being forced to play "very easy" mode all the time. Make it a DLC if you want and I would buy it.

    I would agree that this game's landscape content needs an optional veteran version. It's too easy, currently. But I don't like the idea of turning into some kind of course the player has to start over if they die. That sounds like it could get annoying.

    It would be sufficient for me just to scale the monsters adequately to where they posed enough of a threat to challenge players, instead of us just being able to mindlessly kill them.
    Edited by Jeremy on December 9, 2019 3:36AM
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  • Linaleah
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    Neoealth wrote: »
    Jack-0 wrote: »
    If it’s so logistically difficult to do we could just up the difficulty for all! The naysayers here are actually insulting new players - do they not have the same capacity as the rest of us to learn and improve? This decade has seen a whole lot of games launched with full-on hand-holding and golden breadcrumb trails, but also the soulsborne games and their ilk, which nicely demonstrates my point that something being more difficult is not in fact niche or unappealing to a broad market.

    All the newer eso (non dungeon/trial) content is completely unmemorable because you can just blast through it with your eyes shut. Quest bosses don’t even finish their trash talking before they die!

    No. And it's nothing to do with that. Some of us prefer that quest/story content not be difficult as we do that for the story itself and not for having difficult battles. It's memorable for the story, that's what I want it to be. If I want memorable battles I go do some content that have that, such as dungeons or trials. I do not want it in my stories.
    So no, just no.
    And I am one of those new players.

    If it was optional though then it would not concern you. How new are you? Because if you have all your CP then normal world mobs are just brain dead boring. You will soon feel a need for a little spice after 1 million npcs slaughtered with your eyes shut. I love the story also, that is why I quest, but hell, if there was a little danger here and there as well I'd welcome it!

    bolded is where you are dead wrong. for you. for you and people like you it may apply, but you are NOT everyone, and you cannot possibly claim that someone else who is not you will feel the need that you apparently feel.

    its a very individual thing.

    I have been playing this game for years now. i absolutely do NOT feel the need for a bit of spice in my story questing. what i DO feel the need for is proper solo mode for dungeons and pve mode for imperial city/Cyrodil quests so that i could appreciate their story and setting in peace without feeling rushed or distracted.

    P.S. I'm very much for separate veteran zones so that those who are into challenge in their video games - can have it and leave the rest of us be.
    Edited by Linaleah on December 9, 2019 3:58AM
    dirty worthless casual.
    Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
    Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"
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  • wild_kmacdb16_ESO
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    Would prefer the already resource starved dev team not allocate resources on this, when there are already methods to do what you want.

    Wear white tier gear
    Unallocate CP
    Remove attribute points
    Don't eat food
    Dont use enchantments
    Etc.

    There are lots of handicaps you can give yourself to make the experience more challenging
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  • Imryll
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    It would involve a LOT of work to redo zones providing difficulty levels. It seems to me a lower priority than many things that need to be done to improve game functionality. However, if difficulty-oriented players would prefer that ZOS add optional challenge to questing zones rather than develop new trials and hard modes for DLC dungeons, such a shift in priorities wouldn't affect me.
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  • DaveMoeDee
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    Czinczar wrote: »
    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Do you need a book to be hard to understand to enjoy it? I'm not opposed to hard mode. I just find the generalized logic absurd.

    The suggestion of the OP is not doable. The game can't change the stats of quest mobs based on what I select. They can only change my stats. I am sharing the world with other people. In fact, I can kill a mob without even picking up a quests that also involves killing that mob. And what about all the mobs I pass along the way. I also have 20 quests open at the same time. Most towns have at least 2 quests you could be doing at the same time. They could be a mix of hard and normal. How is that managed?

    If we are going to suggest a design, in needs to be something possible in this game. There is zero chance they give every player their own instance of whatever zone they are in and that is the only way this is possible.

    And even if this was possible, your hard mode boss would die in a few seconds when a bunch of other players are doing the same quest at the same time.

    Wow, your analogy with a book is so bad. We are talking gameplay, challenges to overcome, you know, video games. It's like you're saying "do you need your opponent to be a good player to enjoy a chess game?". Of course the opponent needs to be a good player.

    The problems you speak about could be solved. For example there could only be one hard mode quest active at a time, and enemies would do normal damage to players around that don't have the quest activated in hard mode, etc.. No one is asking to have a new instance for every player. And after all it's a mmo, if people want to band together to defeat some hard to kill boss, then let them do it. That's not the problem. But you have to admit that even in instances created for the player during a quest, where he is alone, enemies are too easy to defeat, there is no challenge at all.

    You really didn't get the point. The analogy is fine. This isn't chess. This is a video game with lore and a story. People can enjoy the stories without caring about the challenge of the combat. You seem unable to understand that other people can look for different things from video games than you do. Stop talking in absolutes.

    You say the problems could be solved, but what you suggest still leaves enemies melting to other people doing the same quest. And which mobs will hit you harder? There is no clear way to delineate which mobs are part of your quest and which aren't. Hard mode has to be either on or off globally. And it would be implemented by nerfing your character. I have no problem with ZOS implementing that, but a lot of players will complain about that approach due to finding nerfs triggering.
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  • DaveMoeDee
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    Neoealth wrote: »
    Jack-0 wrote: »
    If it’s so logistically difficult to do we could just up the difficulty for all! The naysayers here are actually insulting new players - do they not have the same capacity as the rest of us to learn and improve? This decade has seen a whole lot of games launched with full-on hand-holding and golden breadcrumb trails, but also the soulsborne games and their ilk, which nicely demonstrates my point that something being more difficult is not in fact niche or unappealing to a broad market.

    All the newer eso (non dungeon/trial) content is completely unmemorable because you can just blast through it with your eyes shut. Quest bosses don’t even finish their trash talking before they die!

    No. And it's nothing to do with that. Some of us prefer that quest/story content not be difficult as we do that for the story itself and not for having difficult battles. It's memorable for the story, that's what I want it to be. If I want memorable battles I go do some content that have that, such as dungeons or trials. I do not want it in my stories.
    So no, just no.
    And I am one of those new players.

    If it was optional though then it would not concern you. How new are you? Because if you have all your CP then normal world mobs are just brain dead boring. You will soon feel a need for a little spice after 1 million npcs slaughtered with your eyes shut. I love the story also, that is why I quest, but hell, if there was a little danger here and there as well I'd welcome it!

    They are boring because it just takes too long to mow them down with my tank. I don't need fights lasting even longer and I'll pass on filling up inventory with additional gear sets (beyond my multiple tanking sets) or respecing for questing apart from switching a few skills.

    Again, I am not against a hardmode that nerfs your character and does not give any additional rewards. It can't give additional rewards for zone quests because those quests can't be repeated for people who did normal the first time through (since there is no second time).

    People complain when some suggest self-nerfing, but hard mode will just be nerfing you anyway. They aren't going to change the mobs or bosses.
    Jeremy wrote: »
    Czinczar wrote: »
    I am doing Elsweyr main quest and I am sorry but you can't have something interesting if there is no challenge. When everything dies so easily it cannot be interesting. I know this is not a new complaint but the devs really need to do something about that. And main quest enemies are even easier to defeat than normal quests enemies.

    So let's have a hard mode for quests ? When the quest starts, you have a choice to start it in hard mode or normal mode. In hard mode, enemies should have more health and deal more damage and even have their skills rearranged to offer a greater challenge(let's say 4men dungeon life and damage). There could also be a hardcore mode where if you die just once after starting the quest, the quest resets and you have to start over from the beginning. And of course there could be many new achievements linked to that hard mode. Rewards could be rearranged too.

    It's so sad to see all these quests and being forced to play "very easy" mode all the time. Make it a DLC if you want and I would buy it.

    I would agree that this game's landscape content needs an optional veteran version. It's too easy, currently. But I don't like the idea of turning into some kind of course the player has to start over if they die. That sounds like it could get annoying.

    It would be sufficient for me just to scale the monsters adequately to where they posed enough of a threat to challenge players, instead of us just being able to mindlessly kill them.

    They wouldn't scale monsters. They would scale you. You would be nerfed. Bosses would remain the same. I don't see them splitting zones instances into hard mode on/off.
    Edited by DaveMoeDee on December 9, 2019 6:21AM
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This discussion has been closed.