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"DPS is through the roof" thread part 2
-
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I feel like the combat team is just balancing around organized teams rather than the entire player base as a whole. I heard some elitist say that the new 23m trial dummy is the new gold standard for parses, yea ok but not everyone is going to have those buffs that the trial dummy provides running 24/7 during a trial it's just unrealistic and the ones that can are just a handful of guilds.
You've entirely missed the point why iron atro is the gold standard. It is not about hitting the numbers you hit on dummy in a dungeon/trial. But about the dummy providing everyone with the exact same playing field. Everyone on the dummy has all the buffs. So everyone can do their absolute best on it. And then you can compare between those absolute best results without questions about fracture/breach, ele drain, class buffs and so on interfering with your tests.
Then go to a real trial and wonder why their dps is not anywhere near their target dummy dps. DPS'ing the dummy with all the buffs in the world is not the same as a real fight with random players. How does that help the player base? Not everyone is going to be hitting the numbers that they are hitting on the 23m trial dummy. That's just a handful of guilds.
The worst part is that - for some completely unfathomable reason - ESO gameplay balance devs seem to quickly check Youtube videos claims and proceed to constant, asinine nerfs.
They nerf everything to the floor, yet you know some youtuber SHALL find a way to still boast 100k DPS, despite the game going ballistic wrong, boring, ugly. They take away regen, sustain, class defining skills. They nerf gear, classes, races. It does not matter. Someone SHALL somehow find a cheesy or smart or <whatever> way to boast 100k and soon enough, the devs shall nerf anyone to below amoeba status as a blind reaction. All we have left now are light attacks, something that should be a decent yet minor % of a proper class damage.
That's why "100k celebs" are so hated, because they are the source of all the endless and mindless garbage the devs are imposing on everyone else.
Yes, sure, in a normal world, 100k celebs are not guilty, the devs are meant to know what the hell they are doing. But ESO is not in a normal world and who boasts 6 figures cannot be so clueless to ignore a whole class / skill line / gear set will be nuked by those infamous "minus 69%" nerfs that inevitably come.Edited by Vahrokh on November 11, 2019 11:35PMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO7 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A dummy just teaches repetition , not how to play So spending 9 million hours a month in front of a dummy isn’t my (Anyone’s) idea of fun. Ultimately it teaches you very little - certainly not how to fight.
There isn’t a vet trial in the game where you stand still the entire fight. In addition you’d never use the same gear anyway - hence it’s ultimately pointless and just turns the numbers into a w***y waving contest . Even ppl that hit 95k on a dummy are probably closer to 50 in a trial so you Might as well Just put on trial gear and have fun And learn doing the real thing IMO
Here we go again... You know why people spend hours on a dummy? Because wether you like it or not, repetition is a way to mastery. On a dummy you can practice your rotation in a controlled environment to the point where it becomes muscle memory. And when you move to content you can focus all of your attention on movement, mechanics and all those things while still maintaining your rotation. People who spend time on a dummy can do both, its the "f*ck the dummy" guys who are either mopping the floor or are doing mighty 10k DPS for most of the fight
It's not a hard concept. It actually applies to a lot of things in life. From the most intense things like marksmanship basics which are learned at the range, with zero movement, but are stilll pretty darn valuable in a war zone. To the mundane skills like playing on a guitar or typing on a keyboard. The actual process might not be fun. But the feeling that you are getting closer to mastering something is a very enjoyable thing for many people.
You are also quite misinformed. There is little reason to use some other gear than your trial gear when you are practicing on a dummy. 70-80k DPS is also pretty common in trials. Even in places like vSS hardmodes. Check esologs, you'll be surprised. And really good players are hitting 90-100k in trials as well. You might be surprised how many of the trial fights can actuallly be transformed into a big dummy parse.
but this simply isnt true is it?
very few people who post DPS tests use anything other than cheese gear, blue food and 0 shields and self heals. id have an ounce of respect if those people are getting 100k on this patch with that on - but the fact is, they are not - not even on the last patch. everyone i know that was getting 100k was cheesing it - and thats full end game players.
if you can post an 100k parse on this patch showing a character using yellow or purple food, with a sheild and self heal slotted - and trial gear - which is what most people would run in a trial - then i will apologise to you until then.. i maintain - cheese parses on dummys are useless - because whilst you may learn "mussle memory" for your rotation - it becomes completely useless when you have to break rotation to block, sheild or move.
Oh boy, oh boy.
Thanks to T3hasiangod for posting a couple of links. I think he mistyped the first one though.
Here is the link T3hasiangod was intending to post
Here is a group where every single DD broke 100k on Zhaj’hassa
Are those "cheese parses"? "Cheese parses" from a trial, right?
You are also great at missing the point. Again... Muscle memory is there so you don't have to break your rotation to react to mechanics, *wink wink*.
Should I be waiting for this apology? Or another mildly amusing excuse?
6 -
imno007b14_ESO✭✭✭I feel like the combat team is just balancing around organized teams rather than the entire player base as a whole. I heard some elitist say that the new 23m trial dummy is the new gold standard for parses, yea ok but not everyone is going to have those buffs that the trial dummy provides running 24/7 during a trial it's just unrealistic and the ones that can are just a handful of guilds.
You've entirely missed the point why iron atro is the gold standard. It is not about hitting the numbers you hit on dummy in a dungeon/trial. But about the dummy providing everyone with the exact same playing field. Everyone on the dummy has all the buffs. So everyone can do their absolute best on it. And then you can compare between those absolute best results without questions about fracture/breach, ele drain, class buffs and so on interfering with your tests.
Then go to a real trial and wonder why their dps is not anywhere near their target dummy dps. DPS'ing the dummy with all the buffs in the world is not the same as a real fight with random players. How does that help the player base? Not everyone is going to be hitting the numbers that they are hitting on the 23m trial dummy. That's just a handful of guilds.
The worst part is that - for some completely unfathomable reason - ESO gameplay balance devs seem to quickly check Youtube videos claims and proceed to constant, asinine nerfs.
They nerf everything to the floor, yet you know some youtuber SHALL find a way to still boast 100k DPS, despite the game going ballistic wrong, boring, ugly. They take away regen, sustain, class defining skills. They nerf gear, classes, races. It does not matter. Someone SHALL somehow find a cheesy or smart or <whatever> way to boast 100k and soon enough, the devs shall nerf anyone to below amoeba status as a blind reaction. All we have left now are light attacks, something that shuld be a decent yet minor % of a proper class damage.
That's why "100k celebs" are so hated, because they are the source of all the endless and mindless garbage the devs are imposing on everyone else.
Yes, sure, in a normal world, 100k celebs are not guilty, the devs are meant to know what the hell they are doing. But ESO is not in a normal world and who boasts 6 figures cannot be so clueless to ignore a whole class / skill line / gear set will be nuked by those infamous "minus 69%" nerfs that inevitably come.
As you yourself say, "100k celebs" are not responsible. Even IF everything you and others on this crazy train say here is true, all it would prove is that the devs are idiots who don't know their jobs. That is essentially what all of you are arguing. So if you believe it, place the blame where it is due, not at the feet of people who are using the only reliable means available to test and get consistent results. That's ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that if they all stopped, it would rob the rest of us of a lot of valuable info.
7 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭T3hasiangod wrote: »I feel like the combat team is just balancing around organized teams rather than the entire player base as a whole. I heard some elitist say that the new 23m trial dummy is the new gold standard for parses, yea ok but not everyone is going to have those buffs that the trial dummy provides running 24/7 during a trial it's just unrealistic and the ones that can are just a handful of guilds.
You've entirely missed the point why iron atro is the gold standard. It is not about hitting the numbers you hit on dummy in a dungeon/trial. But about the dummy providing everyone with the exact same playing field. Everyone on the dummy has all the buffs. So everyone can do their absolute best on it. And then you can compare between those absolute best results without questions about fracture/breach, ele drain, class buffs and so on interfering with your tests.
Then go to a real trial and wonder why their dps is not anywhere near their target dummy dps. DPS'ing the dummy with all the buffs in the world is not the same as a real fight with random players. How does that help the player base? Not everyone is going to be hitting the numbers that they are hitting on the 23m trial dummy. That's just a handful of guilds.
You're fixating on DPS.
NONE OF US ARE SAYING THAT THE IRON ATRO IS THE GOLD STANDARD BECAUSE IT SHOWS YOUR TRUE DPS
Let's repeat that again.
NONE OF US ARE SAYING THAT THE IRON ATRO IS THE GOLD STANDARD BECAUSE IT SHOWS YOUR TRUE DPS
We are saying that the iron atro is the gold standard because it, well, standardizes parses across classes. With this, you can accurate compare yourself to the higher-end players and see exactly what's going wrong, all without worrying about whether it's due to a difference in buff or debuff uptimes.
I can take someone's iron atro parse and point out that their DoTs are dropping off too often, or that they need to work on their LA weaving, or that they need to maintain their source of Minor Force better. It eliminates the possibility that they did not have Major Fracture or other debuffs or buffs. While you could do this with 3m or 6m dummy parses, it is far easier to discern why people are not hitting as high on an iron atro.
Again you can [snip] on the dummy all day you want. You can see what a class is capable off easier but at the same time our sight has shifted to another direction. Not everyone is going to have those buffs running all the time. Not everyone is going to be that organized. The 3m dummy parse at least showed you how good a player was good at keeping buffs/debuffs while sustaining on their own. It showed if a class was capable on their own. That was the main drive of what made eso fun it was to see what you yourself could do if you don't have the resources available to you and then knowing that your class gets better when you group up. What do we get now? it's just nerf nerf nerf, this class and that class does too good on a the atro dps nerf it on top break some skills in the game to pathetic levels while also hurting sustain. You are standardizing everyone and turning this into a boring [snip] game.
[Edit for minor profanity]Edited by ZOS_Bill on November 14, 2019 1:06AM2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭imno007b14_ESO wrote: »I feel like the combat team is just balancing around organized teams rather than the entire player base as a whole. I heard some elitist say that the new 23m trial dummy is the new gold standard for parses, yea ok but not everyone is going to have those buffs that the trial dummy provides running 24/7 during a trial it's just unrealistic and the ones that can are just a handful of guilds.
You've entirely missed the point why iron atro is the gold standard. It is not about hitting the numbers you hit on dummy in a dungeon/trial. But about the dummy providing everyone with the exact same playing field. Everyone on the dummy has all the buffs. So everyone can do their absolute best on it. And then you can compare between those absolute best results without questions about fracture/breach, ele drain, class buffs and so on interfering with your tests.
Then go to a real trial and wonder why their dps is not anywhere near their target dummy dps. DPS'ing the dummy with all the buffs in the world is not the same as a real fight with random players. How does that help the player base? Not everyone is going to be hitting the numbers that they are hitting on the 23m trial dummy. That's just a handful of guilds.
The worst part is that - for some completely unfathomable reason - ESO gameplay balance devs seem to quickly check Youtube videos claims and proceed to constant, asinine nerfs.
They nerf everything to the floor, yet you know some youtuber SHALL find a way to still boast 100k DPS, despite the game going ballistic wrong, boring, ugly. They take away regen, sustain, class defining skills. They nerf gear, classes, races. It does not matter. Someone SHALL somehow find a cheesy or smart or <whatever> way to boast 100k and soon enough, the devs shall nerf anyone to below amoeba status as a blind reaction. All we have left now are light attacks, something that shuld be a decent yet minor % of a proper class damage.
That's why "100k celebs" are so hated, because they are the source of all the endless and mindless garbage the devs are imposing on everyone else.
Yes, sure, in a normal world, 100k celebs are not guilty, the devs are meant to know what the hell they are doing. But ESO is not in a normal world and who boasts 6 figures cannot be so clueless to ignore a whole class / skill line / gear set will be nuked by those infamous "minus 69%" nerfs that inevitably come.
As you yourself say, "100k celebs" are not responsible. Even IF everything you and others on this crazy train say here is true, all it would prove is that the devs are idiots who don't know their jobs. That is essentially what all of you are arguing. So if you believe it, place the blame where it is due, not at the feet of people who are using the only reliable means available to test and get consistent results. That's ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that if they all stopped, it would rob the rest of us of a lot of valuable info.
You miss the point where we have NO POWER to stop the devs, only to finger point at those who keep "breaking the system" and cause the devs compulsively react and nuke everything out of orbit.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭
About those 21m dummy parses. I wish you guys would actually parse with some semblance of how you would actually run. Actually that goes mostly for mag characters. In most cases, stam setups are pretty close to actual game-play setups, but mag ???? Lol. Total cheese. I wish you guys would parse mag characters more realistically, so that ZOS can get a more accurate reading of how far behind mag actually is. ***especially with sustain***T3hasiangod wrote: »MotokoHutt wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »MotokoHutt wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »I call BS on this thread.
But hey that's just my opinion.
Change my mind, show a video of you doing this, I don't mean a stream of your screen, I mean a video of you playing in front of your screen pulling off these stats.
Than I will be impressed.
You can literally go on Twitch and find end-game PvE DPS playing and hitting those high numbers. Or go to esologs and find public logs from those same high-end PvE players.
I don't think you get what she is saying mate
she doesn't want some stream or a YouTube video with a face cam amd screen cap.
She wants footage of you... Hands, pc screan and all. Showing off what programs you have up, while ideally with like a regular £5 keyboard and mouse, Playing the game showing you able to pull the numbers proposed.
That's easily doable. If it means squashing rumors and misinformation.
Go ahead, and don't scrimp, I am curious myself now, to see if you can do it. I wanna see you on a bargain bin keyboard and mouse, with no addons, camera showing yourself, hands screen and all, all programs shut down in the background pulling 50k dps on a 3mil dummy.
Make it happen
See, I don't see the whole point of this.
1. A "bargain bin" keyboard and mouse doesn't make things different. Using Cherry MX keys is no different for your rotation than using rubber dome keys.
2. No add-ons don't make sense either. Add-ons don't do anything for your rotation; they aren't macros. Do they make learning your rotation easier? Sure, but they don't make the rotation easier itself.
3. A 3m dummy shows literally nothing about DPS. There's a reason why 21m dummies are the "gold standard".
You have an agenda, and I doubt that when I do release this video people like you would be convinced. You'd probably just say "oh, he's just mimicking what going on screen" or "oh, these were recorded separately".
Keep up the good work btw. Your videos are informative.
Edited by carlos424 on November 12, 2019 12:02AM2 -
Kolzki✭✭✭✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »I feel like the combat team is just balancing around organized teams rather than the entire player base as a whole. I heard some elitist say that the new 23m trial dummy is the new gold standard for parses, yea ok but not everyone is going to have those buffs that the trial dummy provides running 24/7 during a trial it's just unrealistic and the ones that can are just a handful of guilds.
You've entirely missed the point why iron atro is the gold standard. It is not about hitting the numbers you hit on dummy in a dungeon/trial. But about the dummy providing everyone with the exact same playing field. Everyone on the dummy has all the buffs. So everyone can do their absolute best on it. And then you can compare between those absolute best results without questions about fracture/breach, ele drain, class buffs and so on interfering with your tests.
Then go to a real trial and wonder why their dps is not anywhere near their target dummy dps. DPS'ing the dummy with all the buffs in the world is not the same as a real fight with random players. How does that help the player base? Not everyone is going to be hitting the numbers that they are hitting on the 23m trial dummy. That's just a handful of guilds.
You're fixating on DPS.
NONE OF US ARE SAYING THAT THE IRON ATRO IS THE GOLD STANDARD BECAUSE IT SHOWS YOUR TRUE DPS
Let's repeat that again.
NONE OF US ARE SAYING THAT THE IRON ATRO IS THE GOLD STANDARD BECAUSE IT SHOWS YOUR TRUE DPS
We are saying that the iron atro is the gold standard because it, well, standardizes parses across classes. With this, you can accurate compare yourself to the higher-end players and see exactly what's going wrong, all without worrying about whether it's due to a difference in buff or debuff uptimes.
I can take someone's iron atro parse and point out that their DoTs are dropping off too often, or that they need to work on their LA weaving, or that they need to maintain their source of Minor Force better. It eliminates the possibility that they did not have Major Fracture or other debuffs or buffs. While you could do this with 3m or 6m dummy parses, it is far easier to discern why people are not hitting as high on an iron atro.
Again you can sh*t on the dummy all day you want. You can see what a class is capable off easier but at the same time our sight has shifted to another direction. Not everyone is going to have those buffs running all the time. Not everyone is going to be that organized. The 3m dummy parse at least showed you how good a player was good at keeping buffs/debuffs while sustaining on their own. It showed if a class was capable on their own. That was the main drive of what made eso fun it was to see what you yourself could do if you don't have the resources available to you and then knowing that your class gets better when you group up. What do we get now? it's just nerf nerf nerf, this class and that class does too good on a the atro dps nerf it on top break some skills in the game to pathetic levels while also hurting sustain. You are standardizing everyone and turning this into a boring $ss game.
Just wow. Is this thread about about figuring out what contributes to dps or bashing the people who are trying to help? I really can't tell anymore.5 -
T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭
About those 21m dummy parses. I wish you guys would actually parse with some semblance of how you would actually run. Actually that goes mostly for mag characters. In most cases, stam setups are pretty close to actual game-play setups, but mag ???? Lol. Total cheese. I wish you guys would parse mag characters more realistically, so that ZOS can get a more accurate reading of how far behind mag actually is. ***especially with sustain***T3hasiangod wrote: »MotokoHutt wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »MotokoHutt wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »I call BS on this thread.
But hey that's just my opinion.
Change my mind, show a video of you doing this, I don't mean a stream of your screen, I mean a video of you playing in front of your screen pulling off these stats.
Than I will be impressed.
You can literally go on Twitch and find end-game PvE DPS playing and hitting those high numbers. Or go to esologs and find public logs from those same high-end PvE players.
I don't think you get what she is saying mate she doesn't want some stream or a YouTube video with a face cam amd screen cap.
She wants footage of you... Hands, pc screan and all. Showing off what programs you have up, while ideally with like a regular £5 keyboard and mouse, Playing the game showing you able to pull the numbers proposed.
That's easily doable. If it means squashing rumors and misinformation.
Go ahead, and don't scrimp, I am curious myself now, to see if you can do it. I wanna see you on a bargain bin keyboard and mouse, with no addons, camera showing yourself, hands screen and all, all programs shut down in the background pulling 50k dps on a 3mil dummy.
Make it happen
See, I don't see the whole point of this.
1. A "bargain bin" keyboard and mouse doesn't make things different. Using Cherry MX keys is no different for your rotation than using rubber dome keys.
2. No add-ons don't make sense either. Add-ons don't do anything for your rotation; they aren't macros. Do they make learning your rotation easier? Sure, but they don't make the rotation easier itself.
3. A 3m dummy shows literally nothing about DPS. There's a reason why 21m dummies are the "gold standard".
You have an agenda, and I doubt that when I do release this video people like you would be convinced. You'd probably just say "oh, he's just mimicking what going on screen" or "oh, these were recorded separately".
Keep up the good work btw. Your videos are informative.
If you watch any of my Twitch streams where I play magicka DPS (and there are many), you'll find that I am within melee range in nearly all fights. The builds presented on my channel are trials-ready and trials-accurate builds.4 -
imno007b14_ESO✭✭✭imno007b14_ESO wrote: »I feel like the combat team is just balancing around organized teams rather than the entire player base as a whole. I heard some elitist say that the new 23m trial dummy is the new gold standard for parses, yea ok but not everyone is going to have those buffs that the trial dummy provides running 24/7 during a trial it's just unrealistic and the ones that can are just a handful of guilds.
You've entirely missed the point why iron atro is the gold standard. It is not about hitting the numbers you hit on dummy in a dungeon/trial. But about the dummy providing everyone with the exact same playing field. Everyone on the dummy has all the buffs. So everyone can do their absolute best on it. And then you can compare between those absolute best results without questions about fracture/breach, ele drain, class buffs and so on interfering with your tests.
Then go to a real trial and wonder why their dps is not anywhere near their target dummy dps. DPS'ing the dummy with all the buffs in the world is not the same as a real fight with random players. How does that help the player base? Not everyone is going to be hitting the numbers that they are hitting on the 23m trial dummy. That's just a handful of guilds.
The worst part is that - for some completely unfathomable reason - ESO gameplay balance devs seem to quickly check Youtube videos claims and proceed to constant, asinine nerfs.
They nerf everything to the floor, yet you know some youtuber SHALL find a way to still boast 100k DPS, despite the game going ballistic wrong, boring, ugly. They take away regen, sustain, class defining skills. They nerf gear, classes, races. It does not matter. Someone SHALL somehow find a cheesy or smart or <whatever> way to boast 100k and soon enough, the devs shall nerf anyone to below amoeba status as a blind reaction. All we have left now are light attacks, something that shuld be a decent yet minor % of a proper class damage.
That's why "100k celebs" are so hated, because they are the source of all the endless and mindless garbage the devs are imposing on everyone else.
Yes, sure, in a normal world, 100k celebs are not guilty, the devs are meant to know what the hell they are doing. But ESO is not in a normal world and who boasts 6 figures cannot be so clueless to ignore a whole class / skill line / gear set will be nuked by those infamous "minus 69%" nerfs that inevitably come.
As you yourself say, "100k celebs" are not responsible. Even IF everything you and others on this crazy train say here is true, all it would prove is that the devs are idiots who don't know their jobs. That is essentially what all of you are arguing. So if you believe it, place the blame where it is due, not at the feet of people who are using the only reliable means available to test and get consistent results. That's ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that if they all stopped, it would rob the rest of us of a lot of valuable info.
You miss the point where we have NO POWER to stop the devs, only to finger point at those who keep "breaking the system" and cause the devs compulsively react and nuke everything out of orbit.
First off, I'd have to see some proof of this claim to know it's anything but paranoid hyperbole. And second, it would imply that none of the devs actually play the game. While one or both is possible, again, I'll need more convincing. 2 -
IonicKai✭✭✭✭Those that are knocking the 21 mil for being over inflated don't understand that it's more accurate to how a trial would go then trying to self buff on a 3 mil. Yes you won't have 100% uptime on things major force in trials but you also don't usually have no debuffs or the responsibility of debuffing the target yourself as you would on an isolated 3 mil parse. The 21 mil is also nearly unable to be cheesed as heavy attack builds that require something like infal to hit high on the 3 mil are also inflating the parse with minor vulnerability which is something that would be applied by support.
The way to view the 21 mil is what would I do with an ideal group in gear I plan to run (or optimal single target gear if going for highest DPS possible). It gives you a view of the ceiling and equalizes things that classes don't bring on their own such as breech, fracture, minor vulnerability, etc... It's the way to check if you actually are optimal at using your character and being able to parse decently high is a sign of being capable in content. Anyone that doesn't see that is missing a huge part of this game. Ceiling aside there is a big difference between 10-40k on the 21 mil (at this point you don't understand how to do damage in this game and while it's not inherently your fault since ZOS doesn't teach it's just a fact) and 60-100k where you have a handle on how to do damage and maybe just need refinement.6 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »
About those 21m dummy parses. I wish you guys would actually parse with some semblance of how you would actually run. Actually that goes mostly for mag characters. In most cases, stam setups are pretty close to actual game-play setups, but mag ???? Lol. Total cheese. I wish you guys would parse mag characters more realistically, so that ZOS can get a more accurate reading of how far behind mag actually is. ***especially with sustain***T3hasiangod wrote: »MotokoHutt wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »MotokoHutt wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »I call BS on this thread.
But hey that's just my opinion.
Change my mind, show a video of you doing this, I don't mean a stream of your screen, I mean a video of you playing in front of your screen pulling off these stats.
Than I will be impressed.
You can literally go on Twitch and find end-game PvE DPS playing and hitting those high numbers. Or go to esologs and find public logs from those same high-end PvE players.
I don't think you get what she is saying mate she doesn't want some stream or a YouTube video with a face cam amd screen cap.
She wants footage of you... Hands, pc screan and all. Showing off what programs you have up, while ideally with like a regular £5 keyboard and mouse, Playing the game showing you able to pull the numbers proposed.
That's easily doable. If it means squashing rumors and misinformation.
Go ahead, and don't scrimp, I am curious myself now, to see if you can do it. I wanna see you on a bargain bin keyboard and mouse, with no addons, camera showing yourself, hands screen and all, all programs shut down in the background pulling 50k dps on a 3mil dummy.
Make it happen
See, I don't see the whole point of this.
1. A "bargain bin" keyboard and mouse doesn't make things different. Using Cherry MX keys is no different for your rotation than using rubber dome keys.
2. No add-ons don't make sense either. Add-ons don't do anything for your rotation; they aren't macros. Do they make learning your rotation easier? Sure, but they don't make the rotation easier itself.
3. A 3m dummy shows literally nothing about DPS. There's a reason why 21m dummies are the "gold standard".
You have an agenda, and I doubt that when I do release this video people like you would be convinced. You'd probably just say "oh, he's just mimicking what going on screen" or "oh, these were recorded separately".
Keep up the good work btw. Your videos are informative.
If you watch any of my Twitch streams where I play magicka DPS (and there are many), you'll find that I am within melee range in nearly all fights. The builds presented on my channel are trials-ready and trials-accurate builds.
Your videos are done really well. You explain everything so it's easy to follow.3 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And look? Isn't this exactly what I was saying?
People boasting every situational glitch (like walls) to get those e-peen numbers.
Then the devs read forums where people complain "whaa mag-xyz is doing NNN DPS" and come next PTS, we read the dreaded: "nerfed xyz by 69%".Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭
I assume you’re referring to using trap. That’s not a big deal, I run it when I can over channeled acceleration. I’m more talking about everyone using ghastly eye bowl in order to sustain while still using sororia. In most scenarios people seem to be using false god’s, especially, now with the huge sustain nerfs. Using false god’s on the 21m doesn’t seem to give near the numbers that sororia does. However, with stam, you can parse with reli, loki, use arteum and sustain just fine, and that is the meta setup. I guess I’m just saying that mag needs some love : )T3hasiangod wrote: »
About those 21m dummy parses. I wish you guys would actually parse with some semblance of how you would actually run. Actually that goes mostly for mag characters. In most cases, stam setups are pretty close to actual game-play setups, but mag ???? Lol. Total cheese. I wish you guys would parse mag characters more realistically, so that ZOS can get a more accurate reading of how far behind mag actually is. ***especially with sustain***T3hasiangod wrote: »MotokoHutt wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »MotokoHutt wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »I call BS on this thread.
But hey that's just my opinion.
Change my mind, show a video of you doing this, I don't mean a stream of your screen, I mean a video of you playing in front of your screen pulling off these stats.
Than I will be impressed.
You can literally go on Twitch and find end-game PvE DPS playing and hitting those high numbers. Or go to esologs and find public logs from those same high-end PvE players.
I don't think you get what she is saying mate she doesn't want some stream or a YouTube video with a face cam amd screen cap.
She wants footage of you... Hands, pc screan and all. Showing off what programs you have up, while ideally with like a regular £5 keyboard and mouse, Playing the game showing you able to pull the numbers proposed.
That's easily doable. If it means squashing rumors and misinformation.
Go ahead, and don't scrimp, I am curious myself now, to see if you can do it. I wanna see you on a bargain bin keyboard and mouse, with no addons, camera showing yourself, hands screen and all, all programs shut down in the background pulling 50k dps on a 3mil dummy.
Make it happen
See, I don't see the whole point of this.
1. A "bargain bin" keyboard and mouse doesn't make things different. Using Cherry MX keys is no different for your rotation than using rubber dome keys.
2. No add-ons don't make sense either. Add-ons don't do anything for your rotation; they aren't macros. Do they make learning your rotation easier? Sure, but they don't make the rotation easier itself.
3. A 3m dummy shows literally nothing about DPS. There's a reason why 21m dummies are the "gold standard".
You have an agenda, and I doubt that when I do release this video people like you would be convinced. You'd probably just say "oh, he's just mimicking what going on screen" or "oh, these were recorded separately".
Keep up the good work btw. Your videos are informative.
If you watch any of my Twitch streams where I play magicka DPS (and there are many), you'll find that I am within melee range in nearly all fights. The builds presented on my channel are trials-ready and trials-accurate builds.
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T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭
I assume you’re referring to using trap. That’s not a big deal, I run it when I can over channeled acceleration. I’m more talking about everyone using ghastly eye bowl in order to sustain while still using sororia. In most scenarios people seem to be using false god’s, especially, now with the huge sustain nerfs. Using false god’s on the 21m doesn’t seem to give near the numbers that sororia does. However, with stam, you can parse with reli, loki, use arteum and sustain just fine, and that is the meta setup. I guess I’m just saying that mag needs some love : )T3hasiangod wrote: »
About those 21m dummy parses. I wish you guys would actually parse with some semblance of how you would actually run. Actually that goes mostly for mag characters. In most cases, stam setups are pretty close to actual game-play setups, but mag ???? Lol. Total cheese. I wish you guys would parse mag characters more realistically, so that ZOS can get a more accurate reading of how far behind mag actually is. ***especially with sustain***T3hasiangod wrote: »MotokoHutt wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »MotokoHutt wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »I call BS on this thread.
But hey that's just my opinion.
Change my mind, show a video of you doing this, I don't mean a stream of your screen, I mean a video of you playing in front of your screen pulling off these stats.
Than I will be impressed.
You can literally go on Twitch and find end-game PvE DPS playing and hitting those high numbers. Or go to esologs and find public logs from those same high-end PvE players.
I don't think you get what she is saying mate she doesn't want some stream or a YouTube video with a face cam amd screen cap.
She wants footage of you... Hands, pc screan and all. Showing off what programs you have up, while ideally with like a regular £5 keyboard and mouse, Playing the game showing you able to pull the numbers proposed.
That's easily doable. If it means squashing rumors and misinformation.
Go ahead, and don't scrimp, I am curious myself now, to see if you can do it. I wanna see you on a bargain bin keyboard and mouse, with no addons, camera showing yourself, hands screen and all, all programs shut down in the background pulling 50k dps on a 3mil dummy.
Make it happen
See, I don't see the whole point of this.
1. A "bargain bin" keyboard and mouse doesn't make things different. Using Cherry MX keys is no different for your rotation than using rubber dome keys.
2. No add-ons don't make sense either. Add-ons don't do anything for your rotation; they aren't macros. Do they make learning your rotation easier? Sure, but they don't make the rotation easier itself.
3. A 3m dummy shows literally nothing about DPS. There's a reason why 21m dummies are the "gold standard".
You have an agenda, and I doubt that when I do release this video people like you would be convinced. You'd probably just say "oh, he's just mimicking what going on screen" or "oh, these were recorded separately".
Keep up the good work btw. Your videos are informative.
If you watch any of my Twitch streams where I play magicka DPS (and there are many), you'll find that I am within melee range in nearly all fights. The builds presented on my channel are trials-ready and trials-accurate builds.
I've explained this before, many times. Perhaps I should reiterate it with every single build video because this is such a common complaint.
Ghastly Eye Bowl is the only food that mimics in-raid sustain (i.e. having Symphony, getting other synergies, etc.). So using Ghastly Eye Bowl in conjunction with Siroria for parses mimics, to a fairly realistic degree, a true in-raid sustain scenario. In fact, using Ghastly Eye Bowl can underestimate the amount of sustain you get in an organized group, since you can get Symphony, Hollowfang, the Master's Resto, and additional synergies.
Basically, every single one of my builds is accurate to what you would experience in a raid.
Stop making assumptions about my builds. Stop saying that what we do is cheese. What many end-game players show and create for the community is accurate and well-researched.Edited by T3hasiangod on November 12, 2019 2:40AM8 -
Morgha_Kul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well... however these things are being parsed, my concern is only that it be done the same way in each case, in order to limit the amount of possible confounding data. That's why I did my own tests always against the same foe, using the same skills. The idea was to control each possible contributer to the damage output and only vary one component at a time. Standard scientific procedure.Exploring Tamriel since 1994.0 -
mongoLC✭✭✭✭What is this some kind of troll thread? Or like many have been saying for awhile paid Zo$ shills. DPS is *** the game is pure ***!1
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Inig0✭✭✭✭
GM: Mechanically Challenged
In game - @Inig0
Sorc - Inigo- Beautiful Chocolate Man
NB - Raphiki - Beautiful Chocolate Man
Temp - Ineegø - ınıgo
DK - Inigø - Alfeus - Down for Maintenance
Warden - Help I Made a Warden
PC NA
Youtube Stuffs
Only the best memes die twice7 -
ApostateHobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ceiling aside there is a big difference between 10-40k on the 21 mil (at this point you don't understand how to do damage in this game and while it's not inherently your fault since ZOS doesn't teach it's just a fact) and 60-100k where you have a handle on how to do damage and maybe just need refinement.
Rip looks like I have no idea how to do damage in this game, and neither does the vast majority of the playerbase.3 -
Morgha_Kul✭✭✭✭✭
✭There does seem to be something going on more than weaving and light attack timing. I watched someone running around a big room in a public dungeon, gathering up all the enemies in the room... perhaps 25 or 30 foes. He then dropped ONE attack, Liquid Lightning or Lightning Flood, I'm not sure which. That ONE attack destroyed ALL the enemies instantly. This is not the only time I've seen this, either.
That's not the result of weaving or light attacks or anything like that.... Something else is providing that result.Exploring Tamriel since 1994.4 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭the only thing I truly do not understand - and this is coming from a guy who is retired and has no commitments, and thus makes his own hours for sleeping, eating and playing games, any time, day or night - WHY??????
I would not spend Half the time people here are, worrying that their DPS is "too low" (what does that even mean? If you can beat the monster your DPS should be considered just fine )and therefore spend hours on end, - using white bland gear, then using no CPs, then using CPs, then fighting left handed, then with one hand tied behind their back....
What ever happened to playing the game because it is FUN to play? When did the game become just a convoluted algebra problem?
Just curious.
My standard is - If I can beat the monsters, the character is good to go.
IMHO
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SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »the only thing I truly do not understand - and this is coming from a guy who is retired and has no commitments, and thus makes his own hours for sleeping, eating and playing games, any time, day or night - WHY??????
I would not spend Half the time people here are, worrying that their DPS is "too low" (what does that even mean? If you can beat the monster your DPS should be considered just fine )and therefore spend hours on end, - using white bland gear, then using no CPs, then using CPs, then fighting left handed, then with one hand tied behind their back....
What ever happened to playing the game because it is FUN to play? When did the game become just a convoluted algebra problem?
Just curious.
My standard is - If I can beat the monsters, the character is good to go.
IMHO
But this IS my idea of fun. I love testing builds, testing stuff like this, getting my parses down pat, and getting my DPS as high as I can. I wouldn't be doing it if I found it unenjoyable.
Also, I can't kill things if I'm dead myself, which I tend to be if I have to focus on both mechanics and rotation. It's much easier when I have the rotation down to muscle memory and know that the gear I'm wearing will produce the best results for me personally.2 -
IonicKai✭✭✭✭ApostateHobo wrote: »Ceiling aside there is a big difference between 10-40k on the 21 mil (at this point you don't understand how to do damage in this game and while it's not inherently your fault since ZOS doesn't teach it's just a fact) and 60-100k where you have a handle on how to do damage and maybe just need refinement.
Rip looks like I have no idea how to do damage in this game, and neither does the vast majority of the playerbase.
As I said not your fault. This game doesn't play like most RPGs. It plays like an MMO which almost always requires getting knowledge from outside sources.1 -
vesselwiththepestle✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Or maybe it was even the Destro Ultimate! How dare they! It is a combination of gear, CP and SKILL SELECTION. In a aoe situation you have to use aoe skills. Of course you can't get that same result with your 5k tank build! Just have a look at youtube videos of skyreach runs. There are many skills you can use to kite and kill huge groups of enemeies, especially if they are undead and/or daedra because of the huge amount of ultimate generation through your Fighter's Guild passive.Morgha_Kul wrote: »There does seem to be something going on more than weaving and light attack timing. I watched someone running around a big room in a public dungeon, gathering up all the enemies in the room... perhaps 25 or 30 foes. He then dropped ONE attack, Liquid Lightning or Lightning Flood, I'm not sure which. That ONE attack destroyed ALL the enemies instantly. This is not the only time I've seen this, either.
You are acting like it would be some giant mystery how those players do that, while it is not. All this information is available through guides made by players like Alcast, Asian and many, many, many others. I don't understand, why players are bashing so hard on those here, these players are actually contributing to the community and there are so many players who are really greatful for those contributions. It's like "Youtuber" is an insult and completely neglects that those players aren't Youtubers only, but also players who play this game.
It is of course "player skill" to understand and know, which character skills are suitable in which situation. Like, using an aoe build in a "i want to kite the whole dungeon" situation instead of a hybrid rp tank build. Many players who deal ultra low dps (10k or less with 300+ CP) are often very inflexible, they don't adapt to different situations and when something doesn't work out, they often give up instead of trying again and working it out.
And for those players who still don't understand the reason for the Iron Atro... Players have demanded such an Atro for a long time. The problem is, characters aren't equal. Some have Major Fracutre, others not, just as an example. So when a raid group demands "50k on the 6M dummy", a Stam Sorc would be in disadvantage to a Stam Den, who can easily apply Major fracture. Your only options would be to involve other players or to set different dps requirements for different classes. The Iron Atro helps with that a LOT.
Also they want not only to practice their rotation, but to know how it behaves in a raid situation. That's a reason to use the sustain food! In a raid situation you have much better sustain than on the 6M dummy and usually even better sustain than on the Iron Atro. If you want to know if your rotation works in a trial situation and is sustainable, you NEED to use the sustain food. If you would use blue max ressource food, you would probably think you have to switch out damage enchantments on jewelry for sustain enchantsments, resulting in over-sustaining in trials and thus losing dps.
One last word. If someone really thinks, being able to do their rotation blindfolded doesn't help in a trial situation, is wrong. The more is going on in a trial the more helpful it is to know your rotation by heart. Maybe that someone is a genius who can do 90k dps in a trial without ever practicing a rotation and probably those exist, but 99% of the players probably don't belong to them.Edited by vesselwiththepestle on November 12, 2019 7:08AM1000+ CP
PC/EU Ravenwatch Daggerfall Covenant
Give me my wings back!3 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭not sure what dps is down to, i think there must be hidden factors in back ground, i seen a post on forum a while ago and got puzzled by it, the person had different gear pieces in each slot, no duel pieces etc, so i decided to go and test this, i had 12 different pieces o gear on my mag dk, 5 of those pieces where stamina gear sets (want to see if they made a diffference) so i had 7 peces of mag and 5 stamina, and went and did dps test, i found out that i started with 32k dps on first try and ended up with nearly 50k on 5th test, dps is through the roof, but iam not sure what it is down to, i did have full cp points btw and all was in goldMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike2
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Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Put on your tinfoil hats people, for we are going to conspiracy land!!!MotokoHutt wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »At the end of the day anyone can show stats on a screen, but if you want to prove you did them without aid of any kind you need to record yourself doing it with a camera that shows everything.
The keyboard and mouse or (controller if that's your thing) with the screen also in the same view.
Once you can do this then maybe people like myself will believe it can be done.
Like I said, I will be doing this, just to shut people up. I doubt it'll actually do anything, but at least everyone else can just point to that video and tell the naysayers "see, I told you so."
Please go ahead and do, but if I see some split screen separate cam BS and you not even shpwing the game load, you having addons, not showing what programs are in the background or you not using a default £5 keyboard and mouse. Then even I will call BS and I personally will tell everyone I know and any new players, and any guild member that your a faker lol. So you better do it right or don't do it at all. Lol
My god the lengths people go to in order to mask their insecurity. Is it that hard to realize that just because you can't do it, or just because you don't have a rational explanation for it, doesn't mean that it is not humanly possible? You lot are all grasping at straws lmao. Keep attributing your inabilities to external factors, so you can serve as a textbook example of someone devolving into self-serving bias.7 -
ApostateHobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭ApostateHobo wrote: »Ceiling aside there is a big difference between 10-40k on the 21 mil (at this point you don't understand how to do damage in this game and while it's not inherently your fault since ZOS doesn't teach it's just a fact) and 60-100k where you have a handle on how to do damage and maybe just need refinement.
Rip looks like I have no idea how to do damage in this game, and neither does the vast majority of the playerbase.
As I said not your fault. This game doesn't play like most RPGs. It plays like an MMO which almost always requires getting knowledge from outside sources.
I was being snarky cause your idea of "knowing how to do damage" is a pretty high standard. I frequently look at outside sources for information for whatever build I want to go for, and tweak it to my playstyle. Even using a build pretty similar (often just using different sets) to someone that pulls dps in the 60-100k range, I still fall into the 10-40k range no matter how much I try to raise it. Part of this problem with the gap between average and top tier players I think is animation canceling because it just doesn't work for me, or a lot of other players. Closest I can get is occasionally cancelling an animation by bar swapping, but half the time that makes my bar freak out and not let me cast anything or do light/heavy attacks. Any other method I've tried the game either still goes through with the animation, or it goes "lol nope" and the skill doesn't go off at all. I can weave light attacks between skills fine, but sometimes even those don't go off. Just because somebody doesn't have top tier dps doesn't mean they don't know anything, do their research, or try. I know how to do damage, it's just that particular level of damage is near impossible for me to achieve for various reasons.
Even with me being in the low tier dps bracket I'm often doing the most damage out of the group in dungeons and whatnot, which is fine I don't mind carrying people through stuff unless they're being a royal dingleberry. Heck I've done more dps than the dps in my group while I was on my healer just laying down some aoe, and this is all in non vet content. A lot of people here really don't realize what normal/average players' dps is like, especially on console without any add-ons to help us.
I would like to add that all of the expectations around doing such high damage drives a lot of people away from even attempting vet content for fear of being kicked, berated for being "trash dps", etc. The endgame community will never grow if it's members can't be more accepting or understanding. Like below where a guild kicks you if you don't do 70k dps. Stuff like that is exactly why so many average players see endgame players as toxic and elitist.Edited by ApostateHobo on November 12, 2019 1:14PM2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ApostateHobo wrote: »Ceiling aside there is a big difference between 10-40k on the 21 mil (at this point you don't understand how to do damage in this game and while it's not inherently your fault since ZOS doesn't teach it's just a fact) and 60-100k where you have a handle on how to do damage and maybe just need refinement.
Rip looks like I have no idea how to do damage in this game, and neither does the vast majority of the playerbase.
To add insult to injury, the nerfs they keep slamming right and left weigh far more on those at your level than on those who already have insane numbers. It's a backwards minded "balance"!Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »the only thing I truly do not understand - and this is coming from a guy who is retired and has no commitments, and thus makes his own hours for sleeping, eating and playing games, any time, day or night - WHY??????
I would not spend Half the time people here are, worrying that their DPS is "too low" (what does that even mean? If you can beat the monster your DPS should be considered just fine )and therefore spend hours on end, - using white bland gear, then using no CPs, then using CPs, then fighting left handed, then with one hand tied behind their back....
What ever happened to playing the game because it is FUN to play? When did the game become just a convoluted algebra problem?
Wait until you decide to play social content (what MMOs are really about). If you decide to stop PUGging in normal trials, you are immediately asked to pass a "DPS check" test with a guild officer checking how well you perform.
In one of my guilds, if you parse less than 70k DPS (magicka and stamina alike) you are simply booted.
And no, it's not an hard core guild at all, just one of many. Even if you find a vet guild "only" demanding 50k DPS, you still have to deliver those 50k DPS or you are out.
Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO2 -
BeamsForDemacia✭✭✭Sorry but unless ur connection or pc is super bad , u didnt research properly u didn’t try properly if u hit 10k while someone else hits 60k ,IR/GH/TTT/GS [MEDUSA]2