Most difficult HARD MODE of last 2 years

Masty_Spy

All of this veteran dungeons are not Puggable. It's true, but which fears you most?

Choose the most difficult HARD MODE of 2018-2019 season.

Drdeath20

Moongrave Fane

It was a toss up between this or scalecaller. You definitely cannot do them without a mic

code65536

Lair of Maarselok

Ooh, this is a really tough question. The dungeon team has done a great job of making unique, interesting hard modes that are pretty close to each other in terms of difficulty. The DLC dungeon HMs are hands-down some of the best content this game has to offer.

The easiest are MHK, DoM, and SCP.

But hardest is a different question. Which one is hardest right now, given our level of experience? I'd say they're about the same, with the exceptions of the three mentioned above.

Which one took us the longest to master? I think Fang Lair HM is the one that took me the longest to no-death.

Which one was the worst before it got any nerfs? March of Sacrifices HM during the first week of its PTS takes that crown. Strangler stun was not breakable, Fiery Remnant was not dodgeable, and the DoT from it was pretty high; we couldn't beat it at that difficulty. After that, I'd say the original PTS week 1 versions of Frostvault (2x maze phases and stronger defile) and Moongrave (health absorption was over 3x larger--though it lacked the healing/shielding debuff--and was applied to everyone during a Baleful Retreat; also, the boss's heavy attack hit so hard that dodging came close to being mandatory and hoarvors would spawn from dead players). And honorable mention would go to Scalecaller. Although it wasn't nerfed, it did have a nasty bug at launch that made it much harder than it should've been.

Favorite would have to be Maarselok. Its core mechanic requires good communication and teamwork and it's one of the best mechanics in the entire game.

quadraxis666

Fang Lair

Fang Lair imo remains the hardest hardmode on live. It's the only one where RNG plays a part that puts elements of the fight beyond any players control, during the 2nd phase with the constant ghost walls where you're never sure where the gaps are going to be, potentially putting you in lose-lose situations where you have nowhere to go.

FierceSam

Scalecaller Peak

Moonhunter Keep is a real pain if people don’t know the mechanics, but most unprepared players just bug out way before you get to them.

Ruins is long, long, long and f-ing busy, but makes clear sense (in contrast, Vykosa’s shock warden mechanic can’t be intuited, it has to be taught/explained)

Scalecaller is just nasty because the poison is so sudden, unpredictable and unforgiving and everybody wants their Zaan hat. So you have more players who want to attempt this (which is good) but who aren’t quite ready for it (which is the challenge). You might get lucky and get it first time, or you might be there all night and still not finish.

I love the last boss in DoM (although the mini bosses are complete shite). Complex mechanics, clearly displayed, it’s a genuine test of player ability, not a lottery of badly implemented, random one shots. Moreover, it can be successfully overcome using a variety of tactics, not simply one way or meltdown. And all the more satisfying when you succeed.

Rungar

I would say the real HM is zos trying to sell these things.

mocap

Masty_Spy wrote: »

All of this veteran dungeons are not Puggable. It's true, but which fears you most?

No, it's not true )

I pugged MHK HM two times and second was from first attempt. And im 100% sure that wasn't 3man premade + me random. They definitely don't know each other.

Pugged HM of SCP, MOS and DOM several times too. Nothing to say about the rest of listed dungeons though, not even a single attempt.

code65536

Lair of Maarselok

quadraxis666 wrote: »

Fang Lair imo remains the hardest hardmode on live. It's the only one where RNG plays a part that puts elements of the fight beyond any players control, during the 2nd phase with the constant ghost walls where you're never sure where the gaps are going to be, potentially putting you in lose-lose situations where you have nowhere to go.

FL is a pretty straightforward HM. It's brutally unforgiving at first, but once you get used to the cadence of the fight, it's not bad at all. People tunnel-vision and don't notice the wall. But if you put your primary focus on the wall, it's not that hard to avoid. The times when I die are the times when I lose focus--when something else distracts me. But it definitely does take some getting used to.

The two biggest problems that I see when I run this with less experienced players is (1) lack of discipline on boss health during the second phase and (2) lack of coordination for the golden circles.

For the first problem, the Colossi spawn at 40, 30, 20, and 10% boss health. A lot of people just blindly parse on the boss and end up with two Colossi running around. Which then causes distractions. Which then leads to wall deaths. Paying attention to the boss health means you can anticipate when a Colossus spawns and being careful not to over-DPS the boss (it's not a DPS race) prevents unnecessary chaos and lapses of attention.

As for the golden circles, most people don't realize that there is a pattern to their spawn location. Specifically, if you divide the room into 4 rectangular quadrants, there will always be exactly one golden circle per quadrant. Within each quadrant, its position is totally random. But each quadrant is guaranteed to have exactly one, so just assign each player to each quadrant. Make sure everyone starts to make their way back to their quadrant before each golden circle phase and you'll never again run into the problem of two people running for the same circle or someone not being able to get to their circle in time.

Rexy18

Frostvault

The others don't come anywhere near this

Kadoin

Drdeath20 wrote: »

It was a toss up between this or scalecaller. You definitely cannot do them without a mic

I did it without mic in PUG group. I actually liked that the dungeon could be completed despite the overall DPS not being high as long as the healer and tank are strong enough.

Too bad ZOS loves DPS checks in the dungeon designs instead these days...

St_Anger

Fang Lair

The never ones are much to easy (frostvault and moongrave are ok I guess) and older ones are getting nerved, it is really sad for endgame players. We need a third difficulty, so that casual players can get a veteran difficulty that is challenging but doable for them and an "inferno" difficulty mode where endgameplayers can seek a challenge.

Drdeath20

Moongrave Fane

Kadoin wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

It was a toss up between this or scalecaller. You definitely cannot do them without a mic

I did it without mic in PUG group. I actually liked that the dungeon could be completed despite the overall DPS not being high as long as the healer and tank are strong enough.

Too bad ZOS loves DPS checks in the dungeon designs instead these days...

Hes talking about hard mode on the final boss.

Donny_Vito

Fang Lair

For Hard-Modes, this was the most difficult in my opinion.

You really need to have your head on a swivel the whole execution phase. A lot of damage, adds, roots, etc.. coming your way plus the ghost wall makes it a tough execute.

0lbertikus

Other:

Being able to log into the game.

Shawn_PT

Hard to say. Fang Lair was probably the one that took me the longest to get done. So many hours fighting that damnable bone dragon. So, so many soul gems and repair kits. SCP is a second close but at least that one's RNG is hilarious. I love it. FL would just make me want to punch someone.

Also ran LoM and Moongrave HMs, MG on the first try, LoM on the second. No mic. It takes group coordination and synergy, yes. But voice is definitely not an absolute need provided someone explains things on chat before the fight.

RogueShark

Moongrave Fane

My opinion may be a little skewed. The first couple nights my current group progged this, we made the mistake of doing so blind. Eventually we figured out the issues and got a system down for who moves the block, who draws the blood orb, etc. I think the night we cleared we only just then learned how the healing debuff worked exactly. As melee I didn't like dealing with the tethers or seeing the healer forced out of range of the tank.

Frostvault is kind of a pita too but only for how gimmicky it is. Not hard, just annoying.

The rest I don't think are too hard. SCP can be obnoxious with the rng of the safety synergies (the shield synergy should not overlap with the 'free ally' stone synergy as often as I've seen it do lol).

svartorn

Just returned to the game, haven’t done any of them on vet OR hard mode, haha.

I think I’ve done em all on normal though.

TriangularChicken

Fang Lair

fang lair simply because it can be difficult to see the damn ghosts

valeriiya

Fang Lair

I've pugged SCP and MoS. Fang Lair is the worst for me because of the last fight.

DLM

Moongrave Fane

People must have not run it or are unaware of the HM mechanics to reply anything other than Moongrave Fane. No other HM requires that level of coordination and communication.

code65536

Lair of Maarselok

DLM wrote: »

People must have not run it or are unaware of the HM mechanics to reply anything other than Moongrave Fane. No other HM requires that level of coordination and communication.

Every HM requires some amount of coordination. MGF HM can be done without comms. If approached with the right strategy, the fight is pretty straightforward and the only coordination is assigning who moves the box and who summons the ball, which could be done before the pull starts. Sure, more comms won't hurt and could yield faster response times, but it pales in comparison to Frostvault HM or Maarselok HM. Even Scalecaller HM requires more coordination than MGF HM.

It's definitely easier than Maarselok HM, in my experience.

ZeroXFF

Moon Hunter Keep

Logging in to PC/EU is the real hard mode.

Tiff_ar15

Depths of Malatar

I had good luck and got through most of these with random pugs. The one that really sucks with pugs is DoM (maybe because I've done that one so many times and know it so well). only had one good random run. Every other run has been absolutely terrible because people refuse to learn mechanics. If you know mechanics.. the dungeon isn't that hard

rumple9

Most difficult hard mode? Logging in to EU server

FierceSam

Scalecaller Peak

Hardest boss?

Logging in boss PC EU

CAB_Life

Scalecaller Peak

VSP in the first two weeks when all the telegraphs were broken/ missing.

D0PAMINE

Im embarrased to say I havn't attempted any of these in HM, but Fang Lair looks crazy af. I tanked all except MHK on vet and have only DPS'ed MoS and Fang Lair. Fang Lair felt easier to DPS than to Tank, however in both runs it took us 2 tries, and I was able to coach our templar tank and we made it even though healer disconnected.

Auroan

Fang Lair

I'll admit, having all the Trifecta achievements in them, it's difficult for me to look at them as I once did, as they're no longer as difficult as I once felt they were when I first stepped foot into them. This can be due to bug fixes, nerfs, buffs, etc., but I'd say it's mainly due to the fact that I've just done them all so many times where it's just muscle memory at this point.
However, I'd probably say the Dragon Bones DLC was the very first DLC that "wow'd" me with difficulty and mechanics at the time of its release. Don't get me wrong, IC was pretty challenging when it was first released as well, but myself and many others were pretty noob back then. The DPS and understanding of the game that I and others had back then, compared to what we had when Dragon Bones released, is like night and day. So the fact that Dragon Bones DLC still challenged myself and others speaks volumes. Namely, vFL HM.
vSC HM was difficult at first because of the bugs (such as still getting 1 shot even when taking your synergy), and the 1 shots from the statues were more random than they are now (much easier to predict now, and Code's addon I think alerts you when they'll shoot). But vFL HM? Yeah, that was the first fight that was properly set up to prevent and punish people for trying to skip mechanics with high DPS. Could you skip mechanics on regular Vet? Yes, and there was an achievement for it. But skipping mechanics on HM? Good luck. You'd be swarmed with Bone Colossi. It was challenging for the tanks first time around too, especially if those shalks got a hold on you. The execute phase topped it off with those 1 shot walls. Again, I'm speaking about it's release, not how easy it is almost 2 years after its initial release. It took me a while to get into the mindset of not focusing on the boss, and instead constantly moving my camera around and focus on walls more than tanking the dragon.
vFL HM just did a lot of things right. Various mechanics, anti-skip mechanics, a blend between constantly damage and one shots, no BS filler mechanics that make the boss untargetable/immune (like the Indrick fight in vMoS), etc. I consider it the vCR +3 of dungs because it's challenging due to the fact that there's various things you have to look out for, with minimal 1 shot mechanics. While I love vSC HM, I consider it the vAS +2 of dungs because mechanically, there's very little to it, it's just challenging for some groups because what little mechanics there are, usually 1-2 shot you.
I also want to point out that I think the lore in vFL is overlooked due to the fact that it's just a large and bland looking map to most. But I felt the lore made the fight that much more enjoyable. You release the souls of the bosses prior, help each other break veils through different realms to approach the final boss, and then work together to save and assist one another from a powerful foe who eventually fuses with the dragon. While the dungeon as a whole might not be my favorite out there, the final boss fight of vFL HM is still my favorite dung fight in ESO to this day.

IndianaJames7

Fang Lair

Imma go with fang lair on this one, solely because the last time I grouped for hm the desync was so bad I was getting killed by aoes that were no where near me.

I should have taken a video of this, it was so back our group just gave up after his cone knock back hit me a full 180 degrees away from the direction of where the cone was displayed, and more than half way to the edge of the arena away from the boss.

emilyhyoyeon

Moon Hunter Keep

I'm very surprised at FL leading the vote right now since I find it to be the easiest hardmode out of this list by far. There is so little damage (I find all the damage so easy to avoid in any role), and the ghost walls and other oneshots I just don't struggle with at all. As tank I just need to focus on boss and walls, and as DD or healer I just need to focus on adds and walls. Damage from the boss is so easily mitigatable as tank and there's no other real source of damage for the other roles. The room is massive which helps me focus a lot more too, tiny spaces to work with overwhelm me I think.

Fights with a lot of damage/things going on are a lot harder for me. MHK has always been really hard for me, but the only role I've done it as is tank. So much CC from the boss combined with the need to block or dodge pretty much all attacks, the fact that there are several major enemies to manage puts more pressure on resources, etc. Dragging the boss through the shock wardens has always felt clunky too.

I feel like no one else thinks MHK is as hard as I do though, I might be doing things wrong

Strider__Roshin

I didn't see staying awake as an option.