How is 30min Godslayer title fair for console.......

code65536

Consoles? Pfft. Join the PCMR.

Okay, now that's out of the way, Sunspire is a shoddy trial. Players on PC have the tools to paper over Sunspire's flaws, but that doesn't excuse the problems in Sunspire.

• Time limit: No, ZOS did not test the feasibility of the time limit for speed run. Instead, what ZOS does is looks at data during PTS. They had access to every group's esologs during the PTS. They looked at what DPS were like in general (they really like looking at people's iron atronach parses), and from all that, they mathematically estimate whether or not Godslayer is possible. There is some amount of guesswork and extrapolation. Yes, Godslayer did turn out to be possible... if you had a group stacked to the brim with necros, using unorthodox strategies that nobody had even considered during PTS (for example, the strategy of keeping the statues alive was so unorthodox that people actually asked ZOS if that was legit or if that was the result of an overlooked mechanical loophole that ZOS would soon close, and after some deliberation, ZOS decided to leave it alone; in contrast, the unorthodox strategy of tanks using CC immunity to avoid Wing Thrash was shut down).
• Addons, pt 1: High-level play requires detailed tracking of game mechanics. Things like timers for your DoTs in a way that's visually sensible are important, yet ZOS doesn't provide the tools for this (the in-game tracker is a visual mess that doesn't even provide the information that you need). Things like coordinating Major Force or Major Vulnerability is made a lot easier with addons. The worst example would be Asylum, where miniboss enrage timing is extremely important, yet the only in-game indicator of this is the boss turning a subtle shade of red once the enrage has taken effect (i.e., when it's too late). That's bad design--there should've been in-game warnings of impending enrage. But there isn't, and what I hear is that people on console would literally use physical stopwatches to track this. Or, for a more recent example, look at the Heal Absorption mechanic. This is a relatively new game mechanic and is basically completely unsupported by the game's UI. Until Purge Tracker was updated to support the reporting of this game mechanic, there was literally no way for a healer to tell how much Heal Absorption is on each player, which is insane considering how central this mechanic is to the Hard Mode of vMGF. This is a general design problem because the game at its core tries to be casual and immersive and having a variety of numbers and bars on your screen does not fit that vision. And, frankly, people going for vet DLC hardmodes are a small niche group. So we're left to our own devices. Which isn't an option for console.
• Addons, pt 2: Console players like to paint mechanical alerts from addons as "cheating". I see it as overcoming the game's shortcomings. Take, for examples, the head thrash on Nahviintaas. This was one of the first mechanics to be alerted by addons and it was something that virtually everyone requested. Why? Well, for contrast, look at Maarselok's Headbutt, which has a clear, visual ground telegraph. It's hard to miss. Nahviintaas's Thrash, despite being essentially the same ability, has absolutely no telegraph. Most people could not see it coming. Or the Lava Geysers on Yolnahkriin. The telegraphs for those have always been very faint and easy to lose amidst all the other visual effects. The poor visual clarity of this telegraph is something that multiple people gave feedback about during PTS. That feedback was never addressed, and so players are left to fix this on our own by turning to an addon. Can we do Sunspire without addons? Of course we can--no addons existed for any of this when we first cleared it on PTS. But addons, which came later, addressed the pain points that were left unaddressed.
• Addons, pt 3: The main impetus for the gutting of ground effects in Update 24 was that ZOS wanted people to use AoE skills for AoE and single-target skills for single-target. They didn't like this idea of using skills that were good for both. Personally, I find all this senselessly pedantic, but that's not a topic for this thread. Implicit in this change, though, is the expectation that people use different setups for AoE and single-target fights. Of course, this is something that competitive players already did. But now, it's something that they want the mainstream to adopt as well. Yet, there is no built-in way to equip preset skills and gear. This is poor game design. That fortunately PC users can fix on their own.

My point is this: The complaint shouldn't be about PCs and the addons that we have. The complaint should be about the game itself. The 30-minute time limit is unreasonable--it is a tighter time limit than either IR or GH. This feedback during PTS was ignored (in part because some groups countered it with feedback of their own welcoming this "challenge"; I disagree--when the target audience for an achievement is less than 100 people across the entire game, that's just a poor design decision). The lack of decent in-game DoT/buff trackers is a long-standing unaddressed issue. So is the lack of a system for preset gear/skills, particularly as the game moves towards more specialized loadouts. Mechanical problems exist, whether they are the result of poor design (e.g., lack of warning for vAS miniboss enrage) or poor telegraph (e.g., Lava Geyser). And addons serve to fix these problems.

As an addon author, it would be great if none of my addons had a reason to exist. It would be great if the game didn't have these shortcomings and I could just enjoy the game instead of spending my time shoring up these neglected pain points. And as for the console players... well, I'll refer back to the first line of this post.

Somber97866

No, I think they are the opposite of idiots. I think they have been dealing with this game so long that either they're tired of it or just don't care anymore.

Somber97866

It's pretty impossible to do without the add-ons to save time. Look at the fact that no one has completed it on console.
If you take a group of 12 without add-ons I'm betting it will not get done. The gear loadouts themselves save so much time. Much less all the others for efficiency .

Onefrkncrzypope

Somber97866 wrote: »

It's pretty impossible to do without the add-ons to save time. Look at the fact that no one has completed it on console.
If you take a group of 12 without add-ons I'm betting it will not get done. The gear loadouts themselves save so much time. Much less all the others for efficiency .

I have swap sets between add and final boss before.. on console.. It just takes an organized inventory. Its not addons because telegraphs are easy enough to know what mechanic is coming next. Its the quality of the game. Honestly you are showing your naivety. Please, they listened to some random guy about stonefist spammable, I am not about to have them waste resources on adding crappy addons that we won't use anyway....

Somber97866

After reading the patch notes I don't even ****ing care anymore! Probably leaving so it doesn't matter! Go find other dumb*** to do your magic DPS for you ppl. Tired of getting ****Ed over by ZOS

TriangularChicken

srsly DoTs got nerfed - yes. blockade and some other aoe skills got cost increase - yes (it's still not a problem to sustain if your healers know what they are doing). it's not the end of the world...how did you play pre scalebreaker? do you even play the game? stop crying and adapt.

starkerealm

TriangularChicken wrote: »

srsly DoTs got nerfed - yes. blockade and some other aoe skills got cost increase - yes (it's still not a problem to sustain if your healers know what they are doing). it's not the end of the world...how did you play pre scalebreaker? do you even play the game? stop crying and adapt.

Also worth remembering, AOE damage is still up from this time last year. All of this crying is, literally, about the previous buff being walked back a bit.

Edziu

VaranisArano wrote: »

It would be unfair if ZOS designed that achievement with those PC advantages in mind.

Presumably, ZOS realizes that Consoles exist - especially since some of the Dev Team play on Console - and designed the requirements with consoles in mind. Presumably ZOS also tests their content without add-ons - it would be hilarious, though unlikely, if even ZOS needs addons to do their trials.

Also, word of advice, don't compare PC and Console content records. Ever. Not only does PC have add-ons, they also have PTS Access and ESO Logs. Its just not even a fair competition, even if PC had no add-ons.

and yet it seems like ZOS not balance around they experience of testing but around hardcore PC endgamers which are doing world recods in ESO and nerfing things mainly for them without even caring as average player get more pain of these nerfs than any other endgame player which is capable of adapting to this while every other average player is not

p00tx

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Somber97866 wrote: »

It's pretty impossible to do without the add-ons to save time. Look at the fact that no one has completed it on console.
If you take a group of 12 without add-ons I'm betting it will not get done. The gear loadouts themselves save so much time. Much less all the others for efficiency .

I have swap sets between add and final boss before.. on console.. It just takes an organized inventory. Its not addons because telegraphs are easy enough to know what mechanic is coming next. Its the quality of the game. Honestly you are showing your naivety. Please, they listened to some random guy about stonefist spammable, I am not about to have them waste resources on adding crappy addons that we won't use anyway....

You have Godslayer then? Because that's what the author was referring to. Of course we can change sets between pulls. That's what any intelligent player would do in Sunspire. What we don't have time to do is change gear by hand while completing the Godslayer timed portion.



On another note, I don't think the answer is to dumb down PC to the level of Console. You do NOT bring baseline down to the lowest common denominator. You ask that the lowest common denominator be brought up to the level of the baseline. If ZoS is going to continue to use PTS feedback to determine what is or is not feasible for content, then they either need to disallow feedback that uses add-ons, or they need to integrate these add-on features into basegame (preferred), or...and I know this is freaking wild...they could actually create a console PTS so they can test the effects of their code on the actual platform it will be used on. I know a LOT of players who would engage with that PTS on Xbox, myself included.

sudaki_eso

idk wrote: »

However, titles like Godslayer are not intended to be easy to achieve and Zos probably expects less than 1% of players will obtain that within the first year or two of the trial being released.

Thats the problem OP wants to address, afaik right now there are exactly 0% of the ps4 eu players who got the title. It doesnt have to be easy but i guess some adjustments of the requirements for us peasants wouldnt hurt.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Like so many people, your original premise is not unreasonable, but then you use outright lies to support your position.

A better question might be, is it reasonable to make a title that so few people are capable of achieving? A title that requires people run a new class which must be purchased? A title that just got that much harder to obtain on any platform thanks to recent DPS nerfs? But yeah, keep spreading nonsense.

I am curious if there are any estimates about how many people have this title per platform and server.

Odovacar

The same thing imo with DD, tick tock, IR, Gryphon, etc... everyone said it could but probably wouldn't happen or it would take years...it's not fair...and they all have been conquered (by a small % but still)... there are very skilled console guilds out there practicing and mastering the trial for the ultimate achievement rn.

It will take some time but it will be done. When it does happen it will be a big accomplishment. I myself will probably never don the title of Godslayer but I will tip my hat to all that earn it regardless of PC or consoles.

Somber97866

Ok so for all of you ppl on mars, this post was made before the new patch update! And tbh with all the nerf's this title on console just became even more unrealistic! So.........

Somber97866

Also, quit defending the mods on PC as if they aren't an advantage over console. The time you save with character loadouts alone ( to switch between sets after fights) are such a Time saver. Which makes them crucial on a timed challenge! That's just one of the many mods to help in this challenge that make this unrealistic for console player's. Plus DPS took a big nerf...........my argument is even more warranted than before.