Pet sorcs officially extinct

BrightOblivion

I'll admit, I'm really disappointed to see all the fire damage in that parse. I mean, I get that fire's supposed to be better for single target, but lightning damage is one of sorc's main attributes, right up there with the utilization of daedric entities. Fire seems more like a card better suited for the dk deck. I'll also echo a previous comment that, with ele weapon, barbed trap, wall, and even destructive reach, this setup looks extremely bland and cookie cutter for mag builds. In point of fact, the only sorc skills I see any evidence of are Frags, Prey, and the Atro.

Notice how I didn't mention a second (if you can consider atro as a pet - I'll get into this later) pet? That's because within the entirety of that damage readout, down to skills doing a maximum of 2.6% of your damage, there is ZERO indication of any pet damage there. Given that, even if you never proc the special ability of whatever pet you're using, its passive damage is still referenced by the name of whatever pet you're using (I just checked this on both morphs of the familiar and the twilight to be sure), that means that, even with Daedric Prey, any non-atro pets did less than 2.6% of your total dps (less than 1956 of that 75.9k dps) in that 21m parse. Basically, any other pet that was there might as well not have been for the amount of damage it dished out. Even your Fiery Weapon and what I gather to be the proc when Unstable Wall is allowed to explode at the end of its cast dealt more damage. As for the atro, calling him a pet is a stretch, given that even non-petsorcs will use him in PvE since, with his synergy, he's the best available single target ult they have. Not surprising, since your other options are Ele Rage, Overload, Negate, or Shooting Star. In a pinch, you might go with that last one, but Atro has a synergy giving it group utility that makes it a better option. When someone is referring to a one-pet or two-pet build, they're referring either to using the familiar or a twilight morph, or to using both at the same time. Otherwise, every sorc who uses the atro could be considered a petsorc, which I think we could all agree just isn't the case.

Further, looking at your gear, you're using Mother's Sorrow, pFG, and Zaan. The issue with this is that, unless I'm mistaken, pets still scale primarily off of max stats (mag for Vol Familiar and the Twilights, stam for the Clannfear). Your only source of that with those two gear sets is a single two-piece bonus on Mother's Sorrow and any Max Mag enchants on your gear. Because a petsorc derives, or intends to derive, a significant percentage of their overall DPS from the damage of their pets (making them different from a regular magsorc in this regard) they would want at least one Max Mag set like Necropotence or even Crafty Alfiq to give the pets more damage.

To put it bluntly, calling the build exhibited in those two parses a petsorc build, especially a two-pet build, and then using the parses to claim that everything's fine and this only costs petsorcs 3.9k dps on the 21m dummy is at best misguided, and at worst blatantly misleading. You aren't building to support the pets with your gear. You don't appear to be using their special abilities, which are also impacted by Daedric Prey, which now increases all damage caused by any of your pets by 20% less than it used to. As such, the picture you're painting is extremely incomplete.

And it doesn't even go into sustain issues caused by increasing the familiar's proc activation cost from 2808 to 4500 in Week 1, meaning that you're draining an additional 99 mag/s (2808/8 vs 4500/10) this patch than you were last patch, making keeping up a stable spammable rotation like you're indicating in your parse that much more difficult. Provided, of course, that you actually use the pet and don't just let it sit there tapping on whatever you're targeting while still claiming to be using a petsorc build.

Dalsinthus

Aerenel wrote: »

Why would you not use a spammable

Because with two pets you lack the bar space for one. On top of that building around lightning heavy attacks gives (or used to give) adequate sustain to go all in on max magic and spell damage, ignoring regen. It's also a nice change of pace from the homogenized builds organized around laying down dots and then casting a few spammable attacks, with light weaving every second. You're still light weaving, but you add a heavy attack once all dots are activated.

Dalsinthus

ZonasArch wrote: »

Aerenel wrote: »

Why would you not use a spammable

So things look worse than they are to create more of a wave. It's the doomsday style of doing things... Remember the tooltip for vigor and rapid regen last update? No one had those tooltips in actual build, but the discourse was bad on "VIGOR TOOLTIP OF 40K OHH EMM GEEEE!"

Hey what I'm saying? I think the word for it is "fallacy". Argument based on a somewhat untruthful premise, that would make sense of the premise was true.

Same with people back in 5.2.0 crying "oh no, 30% dps loss!" But they were using their exactly same builds and rotations as live, instead of adapting and then comparing to achieve actual nerf numbers.

Tldr? Forum people do anything to make their point look more valid, even going as fast as borderline lying.

Instead of accusing people of "borderline lying" perhaps you could give us a parse that demonstrates that the sky is in fact not falling on this build? Just a suggestion.

Many pet sorc builds have been organized around substituting 1-2 heavy attacks for a spammable for many patches now. It's hardly unreasonable, let alone a fallacy or lying, for people to want to see how the play style they've used looks with the changes.

ZonasArch

BrightOblivion wrote: »

I'll admit, I'm really disappointed to see all the fire damage in that parse. I mean, I get that fire's supposed to be better for single target, but lightning damage is one of sorc's main attributes, right up there with the utilization of daedric entities. Fire seems more like a card better suited for the dk deck. I'll also echo a previous comment that, with ele weapon, barbed trap, wall, and even destructive reach, this setup looks extremely bland and cookie cutter for mag builds. In point of fact, the only sorc skills I see any evidence of are Frags, Prey, and the Atro.

Notice how I didn't mention a second (if you can consider atro as a pet - I'll get into this later) pet? That's because within the entirety of that damage readout, down to skills doing a maximum of 2.6% of your damage, there is ZERO indication of any pet damage there. Given that, even if you never proc the special ability of whatever pet you're using, its passive damage is still referenced by the name of whatever pet you're using (I just checked this on both morphs of the familiar and the twilight to be sure), that means that, even with Daedric Prey, any non-atro pets did less than 2.6% of your total dps (less than 1956 of that 75.9k dps) in that 21m parse. Basically, any other pet that was there might as well not have been for the amount of damage it dished out. Even your Fiery Weapon and what I gather to be the proc when Unstable Wall is allowed to explode at the end of its cast dealt more damage. As for the atro, calling him a pet is a stretch, given that even non-petsorcs will use him in PvE since, with his synergy, he's the best available single target ult they have. Not surprising, since your other options are Ele Rage, Overload, Negate, or Shooting Star. In a pinch, you might go with that last one, but Atro has a synergy giving it group utility that makes it a better option. When someone is referring to a one-pet or two-pet build, they're referring either to using the familiar or a twilight morph, or to using both at the same time. Otherwise, every sorc who uses the atro could be considered a petsorc, which I think we could all agree just isn't the case.

Further, looking at your gear, you're using Mother's Sorrow, pFG, and Zaan. The issue with this is that, unless I'm mistaken, pets still scale primarily off of max stats (mag for Vol Familiar and the Twilights, stam for the Clannfear). Your only source of that with those two gear sets is a single two-piece bonus on Mother's Sorrow and any Max Mag enchants on your gear. Because a petsorc derives, or intends to derive, a significant percentage of their overall DPS from the damage of their pets (making them different from a regular magsorc in this regard) they would want at least one Max Mag set like Necropotence or even Crafty Alfiq to give the pets more damage.

To put it bluntly, calling the build exhibited in those two parses a petsorc build, especially a two-pet build, and then using the parses to claim that everything's fine and this only costs petsorcs 3.9k dps on the 21m dummy is at best misguided, and at worst blatantly misleading. You aren't building to support the pets with your gear. You don't appear to be using their special abilities, which are also impacted by Daedric Prey, which now increases all damage caused by any of your pets by 20% less than it used to. As such, the picture you're painting is extremely incomplete.

And it doesn't even go into sustain issues caused by increasing the familiar's proc activation cost from 2808 to 4500 in Week 1, meaning that you're draining an additional 99 mag/s (2808/8 vs 4500/10) this patch than you were last patch, making keeping up a stable spammable rotation like you're indicating in your parse that much more difficult. Provided, of course, that you actually use the pet and don't just let it sit there tapping on whatever you're targeting while still claiming to be using a petsorc build.

As I understand, pets now copy all your offensive attributes. Spell damage, max mag, crits, all that.

ZonasArch

Dalsinthus wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

Aerenel wrote: »

Why would you not use a spammable

So things look worse than they are to create more of a wave. It's the doomsday style of doing things... Remember the tooltip for vigor and rapid regen last update? No one had those tooltips in actual build, but the discourse was bad on "VIGOR TOOLTIP OF 40K OHH EMM GEEEE!"

Hey what I'm saying? I think the word for it is "fallacy". Argument based on a somewhat untruthful premise, that would make sense of the premise was true.

Same with people back in 5.2.0 crying "oh no, 30% dps loss!" But they were using their exactly same builds and rotations as live, instead of adapting and then comparing to achieve actual nerf numbers.

Tldr? Forum people do anything to make their point look more valid, even going as fast as borderline lying.

Instead of accusing people of "borderline lying" perhaps you could give us a parse that demonstrates that the sky is in fact not falling on this build? Just a suggestion.

Many pet sorc builds have been organized around substituting 1-2 heavy attacks for a spammable for many patches now. It's hardly unreasonable, let alone a fallacy or lying, for people to want to see how the play style they've used looks with the changes.

Exactly my point. WTF would you NOT use a spammable? Now read my post again. Carefully.

Dalsinthus

ZonasArch wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

Aerenel wrote: »

Why would you not use a spammable

So things look worse than they are to create more of a wave. It's the doomsday style of doing things... Remember the tooltip for vigor and rapid regen last update? No one had those tooltips in actual build, but the discourse was bad on "VIGOR TOOLTIP OF 40K OHH EMM GEEEE!"

Hey what I'm saying? I think the word for it is "fallacy". Argument based on a somewhat untruthful premise, that would make sense of the premise was true.

Same with people back in 5.2.0 crying "oh no, 30% dps loss!" But they were using their exactly same builds and rotations as live, instead of adapting and then comparing to achieve actual nerf numbers.

Tldr? Forum people do anything to make their point look more valid, even going as fast as borderline lying.

Instead of accusing people of "borderline lying" perhaps you could give us a parse that demonstrates that the sky is in fact not falling on this build? Just a suggestion.

Many pet sorc builds have been organized around substituting 1-2 heavy attacks for a spammable for many patches now. It's hardly unreasonable, let alone a fallacy or lying, for people to want to see how the play style they've used looks with the changes.

Exactly my point. WTF would you NOT use a spammable? Now read my post again. Carefully.

I've carefully read your post several times and we are not saying the same thing at all.

Aerenel

It sounds like you are against the idea of using pet sorc builds that don't adhere to your heavy attack and/or lightning staff setup. There's more than 1 way to do it.

Dalsinthus

Aerenel wrote: »

It sounds like you are against the idea of using pet sorc builds that don't adhere to your heavy attack and/or lightning staff setup. There's more than 1 way to do it.

I'm not sure if this is addressed at me, but that is not what I am saying. I am strongly in favor of having multiple viable playstyles for vet content. A rotation based on dots, pets, and a heavy attack for sustain/damage is just one such build.

Lord-Otto

Aerenel wrote: »

It sounds like you are against the idea of using pet sorc builds that don't adhere to your heavy attack and/or lightning staff setup. There's more than 1 way to do it.

Ah, but that's the thing: the nerf to Daedric Prey will REMOVE everything but that one way! You're even saying that in this post here!
There used to be two competitive dps builds. One with fire staves and spammable, which has recently included the Scamp. But it began as a non-pet build and IMO, still isn't a specialized or traditional pet build. That would be one with both pets, lightning staves and heavy attack instead of spammable.
The difference in dps between those two used to be somewhat small, with "non-pet" usually being slightly ahead. But now I'm afraid there will be a huge gap, the Prey nerf cuts deep into the traditional pet build. Thus eliminating variety.

Flaminir

ZonasArch wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

I'll admit, I'm really disappointed to see all the fire damage in that parse. I mean, I get that fire's supposed to be better for single target, but lightning damage is one of sorc's main attributes, right up there with the utilization of daedric entities. Fire seems more like a card better suited for the dk deck. I'll also echo a previous comment that, with ele weapon, barbed trap, wall, and even destructive reach, this setup looks extremely bland and cookie cutter for mag builds. In point of fact, the only sorc skills I see any evidence of are Frags, Prey, and the Atro.

Notice how I didn't mention a second (if you can consider atro as a pet - I'll get into this later) pet? That's because within the entirety of that damage readout, down to skills doing a maximum of 2.6% of your damage, there is ZERO indication of any pet damage there. Given that, even if you never proc the special ability of whatever pet you're using, its passive damage is still referenced by the name of whatever pet you're using (I just checked this on both morphs of the familiar and the twilight to be sure), that means that, even with Daedric Prey, any non-atro pets did less than 2.6% of your total dps (less than 1956 of that 75.9k dps) in that 21m parse. Basically, any other pet that was there might as well not have been for the amount of damage it dished out. Even your Fiery Weapon and what I gather to be the proc when Unstable Wall is allowed to explode at the end of its cast dealt more damage. As for the atro, calling him a pet is a stretch, given that even non-petsorcs will use him in PvE since, with his synergy, he's the best available single target ult they have. Not surprising, since your other options are Ele Rage, Overload, Negate, or Shooting Star. In a pinch, you might go with that last one, but Atro has a synergy giving it group utility that makes it a better option. When someone is referring to a one-pet or two-pet build, they're referring either to using the familiar or a twilight morph, or to using both at the same time. Otherwise, every sorc who uses the atro could be considered a petsorc, which I think we could all agree just isn't the case.

Further, looking at your gear, you're using Mother's Sorrow, pFG, and Zaan. The issue with this is that, unless I'm mistaken, pets still scale primarily off of max stats (mag for Vol Familiar and the Twilights, stam for the Clannfear). Your only source of that with those two gear sets is a single two-piece bonus on Mother's Sorrow and any Max Mag enchants on your gear. Because a petsorc derives, or intends to derive, a significant percentage of their overall DPS from the damage of their pets (making them different from a regular magsorc in this regard) they would want at least one Max Mag set like Necropotence or even Crafty Alfiq to give the pets more damage.

To put it bluntly, calling the build exhibited in those two parses a petsorc build, especially a two-pet build, and then using the parses to claim that everything's fine and this only costs petsorcs 3.9k dps on the 21m dummy is at best misguided, and at worst blatantly misleading. You aren't building to support the pets with your gear. You don't appear to be using their special abilities, which are also impacted by Daedric Prey, which now increases all damage caused by any of your pets by 20% less than it used to. As such, the picture you're painting is extremely incomplete.

And it doesn't even go into sustain issues caused by increasing the familiar's proc activation cost from 2808 to 4500 in Week 1, meaning that you're draining an additional 99 mag/s (2808/8 vs 4500/10) this patch than you were last patch, making keeping up a stable spammable rotation like you're indicating in your parse that much more difficult. Provided, of course, that you actually use the pet and don't just let it sit there tapping on whatever you're targeting while still claiming to be using a petsorc build.

As I understand, pets now copy all your offensive attributes. Spell damage, max mag, crits, all that.

@ZonasArch Not quite no. They scale with max magicka and are affected by crit chance and crit damage. They do NOT scale with spell damage just to be clear.

ZonasArch

Flaminir wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

I'll admit, I'm really disappointed to see all the fire damage in that parse. I mean, I get that fire's supposed to be better for single target, but lightning damage is one of sorc's main attributes, right up there with the utilization of daedric entities. Fire seems more like a card better suited for the dk deck. I'll also echo a previous comment that, with ele weapon, barbed trap, wall, and even destructive reach, this setup looks extremely bland and cookie cutter for mag builds. In point of fact, the only sorc skills I see any evidence of are Frags, Prey, and the Atro.

Notice how I didn't mention a second (if you can consider atro as a pet - I'll get into this later) pet? That's because within the entirety of that damage readout, down to skills doing a maximum of 2.6% of your damage, there is ZERO indication of any pet damage there. Given that, even if you never proc the special ability of whatever pet you're using, its passive damage is still referenced by the name of whatever pet you're using (I just checked this on both morphs of the familiar and the twilight to be sure), that means that, even with Daedric Prey, any non-atro pets did less than 2.6% of your total dps (less than 1956 of that 75.9k dps) in that 21m parse. Basically, any other pet that was there might as well not have been for the amount of damage it dished out. Even your Fiery Weapon and what I gather to be the proc when Unstable Wall is allowed to explode at the end of its cast dealt more damage. As for the atro, calling him a pet is a stretch, given that even non-petsorcs will use him in PvE since, with his synergy, he's the best available single target ult they have. Not surprising, since your other options are Ele Rage, Overload, Negate, or Shooting Star. In a pinch, you might go with that last one, but Atro has a synergy giving it group utility that makes it a better option. When someone is referring to a one-pet or two-pet build, they're referring either to using the familiar or a twilight morph, or to using both at the same time. Otherwise, every sorc who uses the atro could be considered a petsorc, which I think we could all agree just isn't the case.

Further, looking at your gear, you're using Mother's Sorrow, pFG, and Zaan. The issue with this is that, unless I'm mistaken, pets still scale primarily off of max stats (mag for Vol Familiar and the Twilights, stam for the Clannfear). Your only source of that with those two gear sets is a single two-piece bonus on Mother's Sorrow and any Max Mag enchants on your gear. Because a petsorc derives, or intends to derive, a significant percentage of their overall DPS from the damage of their pets (making them different from a regular magsorc in this regard) they would want at least one Max Mag set like Necropotence or even Crafty Alfiq to give the pets more damage.

To put it bluntly, calling the build exhibited in those two parses a petsorc build, especially a two-pet build, and then using the parses to claim that everything's fine and this only costs petsorcs 3.9k dps on the 21m dummy is at best misguided, and at worst blatantly misleading. You aren't building to support the pets with your gear. You don't appear to be using their special abilities, which are also impacted by Daedric Prey, which now increases all damage caused by any of your pets by 20% less than it used to. As such, the picture you're painting is extremely incomplete.

And it doesn't even go into sustain issues caused by increasing the familiar's proc activation cost from 2808 to 4500 in Week 1, meaning that you're draining an additional 99 mag/s (2808/8 vs 4500/10) this patch than you were last patch, making keeping up a stable spammable rotation like you're indicating in your parse that much more difficult. Provided, of course, that you actually use the pet and don't just let it sit there tapping on whatever you're targeting while still claiming to be using a petsorc build.

As I understand, pets now copy all your offensive attributes. Spell damage, max mag, crits, all that.

@ZonasArch Not quite no. They scale with max magicka and are affected by crit chance and crit damage. They do NOT scale with spell damage just to be clear.

Ohhh... I see. It's just the percentage buffs that get carried over... Ish.

FrancisCrawford

ZonasArch wrote: »

As I understand, pets now copy all your offensive attributes. Spell damage, max mag, crits, all that.

Since when????????????????

ZonasArch

Flaminir wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

I'll admit, I'm really disappointed to see all the fire damage in that parse. I mean, I get that fire's supposed to be better for single target, but lightning damage is one of sorc's main attributes, right up there with the utilization of daedric entities. Fire seems more like a card better suited for the dk deck. I'll also echo a previous comment that, with ele weapon, barbed trap, wall, and even destructive reach, this setup looks extremely bland and cookie cutter for mag builds. In point of fact, the only sorc skills I see any evidence of are Frags, Prey, and the Atro.

Notice how I didn't mention a second (if you can consider atro as a pet - I'll get into this later) pet? That's because within the entirety of that damage readout, down to skills doing a maximum of 2.6% of your damage, there is ZERO indication of any pet damage there. Given that, even if you never proc the special ability of whatever pet you're using, its passive damage is still referenced by the name of whatever pet you're using (I just checked this on both morphs of the familiar and the twilight to be sure), that means that, even with Daedric Prey, any non-atro pets did less than 2.6% of your total dps (less than 1956 of that 75.9k dps) in that 21m parse. Basically, any other pet that was there might as well not have been for the amount of damage it dished out. Even your Fiery Weapon and what I gather to be the proc when Unstable Wall is allowed to explode at the end of its cast dealt more damage. As for the atro, calling him a pet is a stretch, given that even non-petsorcs will use him in PvE since, with his synergy, he's the best available single target ult they have. Not surprising, since your other options are Ele Rage, Overload, Negate, or Shooting Star. In a pinch, you might go with that last one, but Atro has a synergy giving it group utility that makes it a better option. When someone is referring to a one-pet or two-pet build, they're referring either to using the familiar or a twilight morph, or to using both at the same time. Otherwise, every sorc who uses the atro could be considered a petsorc, which I think we could all agree just isn't the case.

Further, looking at your gear, you're using Mother's Sorrow, pFG, and Zaan. The issue with this is that, unless I'm mistaken, pets still scale primarily off of max stats (mag for Vol Familiar and the Twilights, stam for the Clannfear). Your only source of that with those two gear sets is a single two-piece bonus on Mother's Sorrow and any Max Mag enchants on your gear. Because a petsorc derives, or intends to derive, a significant percentage of their overall DPS from the damage of their pets (making them different from a regular magsorc in this regard) they would want at least one Max Mag set like Necropotence or even Crafty Alfiq to give the pets more damage.

To put it bluntly, calling the build exhibited in those two parses a petsorc build, especially a two-pet build, and then using the parses to claim that everything's fine and this only costs petsorcs 3.9k dps on the 21m dummy is at best misguided, and at worst blatantly misleading. You aren't building to support the pets with your gear. You don't appear to be using their special abilities, which are also impacted by Daedric Prey, which now increases all damage caused by any of your pets by 20% less than it used to. As such, the picture you're painting is extremely incomplete.

And it doesn't even go into sustain issues caused by increasing the familiar's proc activation cost from 2808 to 4500 in Week 1, meaning that you're draining an additional 99 mag/s (2808/8 vs 4500/10) this patch than you were last patch, making keeping up a stable spammable rotation like you're indicating in your parse that much more difficult. Provided, of course, that you actually use the pet and don't just let it sit there tapping on whatever you're targeting while still claiming to be using a petsorc build.

As I understand, pets now copy all your offensive attributes. Spell damage, max mag, crits, all that.

@ZonasArch Not quite no. They scale with max magicka and are affected by crit chance and crit damage. They do NOT scale with spell damage just to be clear.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

As I understand, pets now copy all your offensive attributes. Spell damage, max mag, crits, all that.

Since when????????????????

I was mistaken!

bol

BrightOblivion wrote: »

Notice how I didn't mention a second (if you can consider atro as a pet - I'll get into this later) pet? That's because within the entirety of that damage readout, down to skills doing a maximum of 2.6% of your damage, there is ZERO indication of any pet damage there. Given that, even if you never proc the special ability of whatever pet you're using, its passive damage is still referenced by the name of whatever pet you're using (I just checked this on both morphs of the familiar and the twilight to be sure), that means that, even with Daedric Prey, any non-atro pets did less than 2.6% of your total dps (less than 1956 of that 75.9k dps) in that 21m parse.

That is not true at all. In those parses, the matriarch does 6.7k damage, down to 6.2k with nerfed prey. It is in the parse as 'Zap'.
The Familiar attack is called 'Entropic Touch' as is 3.5k down to 3.0k with nerfed prey.
So the loss from these 2 pets due to prey nerf on his parses account for 1k of damage loss.

The attro damage is down from 7k to 5.7k. I think it would be outperformed by destro ulti at this point, and could get some of that damage back. So the rest of the loss is due to other factors not just prey nerf.

What I don't understand is WHY they would nerf prey, instead of buffing it? I think prey should give +100% damage to pets, but at the same time the base damage of pets should be nerfed more. That way there would be a greater difference between just having the pet tagging along doing damage while you do nothing, or your damage being the result of your action, the cast of daedric prey in this case. It would award skill, by keeping the buff uptime high, and it would prevent ppl from complaining that pets do way too much passive damage as you could always counter that its actually the curse that does that and not the pets, and the curse can be cleansed in pvp.

universal_wrath

Decimus wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Literally no one (who's worth mentioning) on Live: "pet sorc needs buffs".

Literally no one before PTS update 5.2.3: "I wish they'd increase pet damage"

PTS Update 5.2.3

Summon Unstable Familiar:
Increased the damage per hit of this ability and its morphs’ basic attacks by 20%.
Increased the damage of the pulse attack from this morph and the Volatile Familiar morph by 20%.

Summon Winged Twilight: Increased the damage per hit of this ability and its morphs by 20%.

Literally no one afterwards "oh, what a nice change"

PTS Update 5.2.4

Daedric Curse
Daedric Prey (morph): Reduced the bonus damage for pets to 20%, down from 40%.

Sorcs: WAAAH pEt sOrc EXtiNCT!!


...sometimes I wonder if people really understand things like math or logic.

Sorc pets will be amongst the strongest "DoTs" in game after this patch and are still buffed compared to what they do on Live (in particular the burst heal on Twilight, which I managed to get up to 17,3k tooltip with zero points in Blessed...).

Here's why:
2000 (random base number we'll use)+20% (the buff in 5.2.3)=2400+20% (new Daedric Prey)=2880
2000+40% (old Daedric Prey)=2800


...in other words, the damage done by pet sorc is increased compared to Live (particularly when curse is not on target). The healing from Matriarch is up by about 70% & is now the strongest burst heal in the game by far.


Stop crying.

Literally ignores 5.2.0 changes. Stop lying

Not at all, why do you think I brought up twilight having 17,3k tooltip on the heal (with zero points in Blessed)? That change was made in 5.2.0 & literally makes sorc have the strongest burst heal in the game.

Summon Unstable Familiar:
Reduced the damage of this ability and its morphs’ basic attack by approximately 17%.
Increased the cost of the special activate of this ability and the Volatile Familiar morph to 4500, up from 2808.
Increased the duration of the special activate to 10 seconds, up from 8.

If you refer to this, then yes - your scamp (which almost no one uses in PvP anyway) will deal a little bit less damage (-14,2%) when pet curse is on target, and about the same dmg (-0,4% to be precise!) when pet curse isn't active.

Meanwhile almost every other DoT in the game got nerfed by almost 50% and most of them remain weaker than damage done by pets (curse or no curse) after the patch.

Also newsflash: almost every other AoE damage "DoT" got a cost increase in patch 5.2.0

Blade Cloak:
Increased the base duration of this ability and its morphs to 10 seconds, up from 8.
Increased base cost to 4950, up from 3024.
Reduced the damage per tick by approximately 32%.

Spear Shards:
This ability and its morphs now last 10 seconds, up from 8.
Increased the base cost to 4950, up from 3024.

Fiery Breath:
This ability and its morphs now last 10 seconds at base, up from 8 seconds.
Increased base cost to 3510, up from 2808.

...but let me guess, pets should be exempt from this "injustice" - dealing more damage than those skills isn't enough?


I'd suggest reading through the patch notes again, and not just the sorcerer ones.

Yes, because unlike other skills and dots, sorcerer pets needs to be dauble bar in order to be used. I'm not sure why are still being compared to 1 slot skills. Never forget the fact that they die and need to be channel summon used again, they may not die in PvE or PvP no CP, but they are very easy to kill in CP PvP. As for the "dots" part, i use scamp or atleast summon it for the active skill since its base dmg is laughable and that dmg was reduces. Twilight tormentor is still a joke qctive ability only work on targets above 50% HP and no other unique mechanics for it, 2 slots for useless pet. Twlight matriachs is only usefull pet next patch as healer, dmg is even work that scamp I think. Heal got increased, but cost got increased as well. Healing scales on max magicka and not spell dmg only. So you would use matraich for heals only and it still takes 2 slots to use for heals. Good thing it is the strongest burst heal in the game because it value the 2 slots sacrificed.

I don't think any pet sorc user would mind pets sraying as they are now if they did not take 2 slots wach to use, which is the whole point and argument. You simply cannot compare a skill that takes 2 slots to use to a skill that only takes 1 slot.

BrightOblivion

bol wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

Notice how I didn't mention a second (if you can consider atro as a pet - I'll get into this later) pet? That's because within the entirety of that damage readout, down to skills doing a maximum of 2.6% of your damage, there is ZERO indication of any pet damage there. Given that, even if you never proc the special ability of whatever pet you're using, its passive damage is still referenced by the name of whatever pet you're using (I just checked this on both morphs of the familiar and the twilight to be sure), that means that, even with Daedric Prey, any non-atro pets did less than 2.6% of your total dps (less than 1956 of that 75.9k dps) in that 21m parse.

That is not true at all. In those parses, the matriarch does 6.7k damage, down to 6.2k with nerfed prey. It is in the parse as 'Zap'.
The Familiar attack is called 'Entropic Touch' as is 3.5k down to 3.0k with nerfed prey.
So the loss from these 2 pets due to prey nerf on his parses account for 1k of damage loss.

The attro damage is down from 7k to 5.7k. I think it would be outperformed by destro ulti at this point, and could get some of that damage back. So the rest of the loss is due to other factors not just prey nerf.

What I don't understand is WHY they would nerf prey, instead of buffing it? I think prey should give +100% damage to pets, but at the same time the base damage of pets should be nerfed more. That way there would be a greater difference between just having the pet tagging along doing damage while you do nothing, or your damage being the result of your action, the cast of daedric prey in this case. It would award skill, by keeping the buff uptime high, and it would prevent ppl from complaining that pets do way too much passive damage as you could always counter that its actually the curse that does that and not the pets, and the curse can be cleansed in pvp.

I considered that and, admittedly, I could not figure out the source for either of those skills. But, as I said, I tested it on the PTS with the most current version of CMX, using no other skills than Prey and the Familiar Pulse with both the familiar and the Matriarch summoned, using the Precursor because anything else would have been too boring. This is what I saw:

Then, to double-check, I did this same test on Live. Familiar and Matriarch. Just using the Familiar Pulse and Prey. On the Precursor. And saw this:

No Zap. No Entropic Touch. I'm not sure where those two skills came from, but what I'm seeing is exactly what I said I'm seeing. Pet damage labeled as being from the pet it came from. On the Live version, it even goes as far as to clearly specify the Familiar's Pulse vs Melee attack.

Regarding Prey, I've given up trying to understand ZOS's reasoning for what they do. One thing I'm sure of? Absolutely nothing is going to prevent people from complaining, particularly when it comes to sorcs and their pets.

Saltisol

If they had a good reason and explained why they felt the need to reduce the damage from pets and ultimate with 50% we would have a chance to argue our case.
I have played a pet sorc in pve using 1 pet and the atronach as ultimate I can't say if it's overperforming and had to be nerfed but with 50% has to be over the top.

Ender1310

I understand the annoyance with pet sorcs. I wish balance could be found to keep the spec alive.

Decimus

universal_wrath wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Literally no one (who's worth mentioning) on Live: "pet sorc needs buffs".

Literally no one before PTS update 5.2.3: "I wish they'd increase pet damage"

PTS Update 5.2.3

Summon Unstable Familiar:
Increased the damage per hit of this ability and its morphs’ basic attacks by 20%.
Increased the damage of the pulse attack from this morph and the Volatile Familiar morph by 20%.

Summon Winged Twilight: Increased the damage per hit of this ability and its morphs by 20%.

Literally no one afterwards "oh, what a nice change"

PTS Update 5.2.4

Daedric Curse
Daedric Prey (morph): Reduced the bonus damage for pets to 20%, down from 40%.

Sorcs: WAAAH pEt sOrc EXtiNCT!!


...sometimes I wonder if people really understand things like math or logic.

Sorc pets will be amongst the strongest "DoTs" in game after this patch and are still buffed compared to what they do on Live (in particular the burst heal on Twilight, which I managed to get up to 17,3k tooltip with zero points in Blessed...).

Here's why:
2000 (random base number we'll use)+20% (the buff in 5.2.3)=2400+20% (new Daedric Prey)=2880
2000+40% (old Daedric Prey)=2800


...in other words, the damage done by pet sorc is increased compared to Live (particularly when curse is not on target). The healing from Matriarch is up by about 70% & is now the strongest burst heal in the game by far.


Stop crying.

Literally ignores 5.2.0 changes. Stop lying

Not at all, why do you think I brought up twilight having 17,3k tooltip on the heal (with zero points in Blessed)? That change was made in 5.2.0 & literally makes sorc have the strongest burst heal in the game.

Summon Unstable Familiar:
Reduced the damage of this ability and its morphs’ basic attack by approximately 17%.
Increased the cost of the special activate of this ability and the Volatile Familiar morph to 4500, up from 2808.
Increased the duration of the special activate to 10 seconds, up from 8.

If you refer to this, then yes - your scamp (which almost no one uses in PvP anyway) will deal a little bit less damage (-14,2%) when pet curse is on target, and about the same dmg (-0,4% to be precise!) when pet curse isn't active.

Meanwhile almost every other DoT in the game got nerfed by almost 50% and most of them remain weaker than damage done by pets (curse or no curse) after the patch.

Also newsflash: almost every other AoE damage "DoT" got a cost increase in patch 5.2.0

Blade Cloak:
Increased the base duration of this ability and its morphs to 10 seconds, up from 8.
Increased base cost to 4950, up from 3024.
Reduced the damage per tick by approximately 32%.

Spear Shards:
This ability and its morphs now last 10 seconds, up from 8.
Increased the base cost to 4950, up from 3024.

Fiery Breath:
This ability and its morphs now last 10 seconds at base, up from 8 seconds.
Increased base cost to 3510, up from 2808.

...but let me guess, pets should be exempt from this "injustice" - dealing more damage than those skills isn't enough?


I'd suggest reading through the patch notes again, and not just the sorcerer ones.

Yes, because unlike other skills and dots, sorcerer pets needs to be dauble bar in order to be used. I'm not sure why are still being compared to 1 slot skills. Never forget the fact that they die and need to be channel summon used again, they may not die in PvE or PvP no CP, but they are very easy to kill in CP PvP. As for the "dots" part, i use scamp or atleast summon it for the active skill since its base dmg is laughable and that dmg was reduces. Twilight tormentor is still a joke qctive ability only work on targets above 50% HP and no other unique mechanics for it, 2 slots for useless pet. Twlight matriachs is only usefull pet next patch as healer, dmg is even work that scamp I think. Heal got increased, but cost got increased as well. Healing scales on max magicka and not spell dmg only. So you would use matraich for heals only and it still takes 2 slots to use for heals. Good thing it is the strongest burst heal in the game because it value the 2 slots sacrificed.

I don't think any pet sorc user would mind pets sraying as they are now if they did not take 2 slots wach to use, which is the whole point and argument. You simply cannot compare a skill that takes 2 slots to use to a skill that only takes 1 slot.

I think you missed the part of the post where the "two skill slots" fallacy was debunked:

And they are - even more than twice as efficient.

With Matriarch you get a "DoT" that is amongst the strongest in the game after almost everything else is nerfed in this update and you get a burst heal that is almost double that of Honor the Dead.

A DoT and a burst heal - two skill slots, two "skills".


This on top of having a hitbox to hide inside in PvP, making it essentially RNG for the opponent if they hit you with ranged abilities (melee is a bit more reliable on hitting the right target, though not 100% either) or if they hit the pet instead.

Scamp? You get a "DoT" (again, stronger than most other DoTs after nerfs) and an AoE activate DoT (stronger than most other DoTs after nerfs) with a CC attached to it - again, essentially worth two skill slots.

For reference, on PTS my mDK with a build balanced for survivability/sustain gets 15,9k over 14 seconds tooltip on Embers, i.e. 1135 dmg per second.

My pet sorc on PTS with a build balanced for survivability/sustain gets 2,4k tooltip on Matriarch's zap (every 2s), meaning 1200 damage per second or 1440dps when pet curse is active.

This without ever having to actually spend a GCD & cast it on target.

So that's one skill.

Second part of the skill? 17,3k tooltip heal that heals the pet itself and two others - this is much stronger than Honor the Dead or any other non-ultimate burst heal in the game.

Summa summarum, you get two skill slots' worth of "value" by having Matriarch.


I will confess though that Tormentor is very disappointing in comparison, since the extra damage you'd get from the activate would be worth only 760dps & only functions above 50% health, making it a very inefficient morph.

Scamp? I have a 2543 tooltip (every 2s), meaning 1271dps - 1525 with per curse.

That's a "DoT" already, the activate on the other hand is dealing 4008 damage every 2 seconds (4809 with pet curse) which, needless to say, compares very favourably to other DoTs as well - so consider scamp to be worth two DoTs skills if not more.

I think closest comparison would be Deadly Cloak (just instead of Major Evasion you get a stun) - on my stamblade (25k stam 4,2k wpn dmg) Deadly Cloak is 1,2k damage per second - 2,4k every 2 seconds.

Yes, you can get the tooltip higher than that, but not to 4k every 2s...



Of course in PvP their efficiency goes down in scenarios where you're outnumbered and controlling the pets becomes difficult, but I don't think that's where most people find pet sorcs strong/annoying.


So if you want pets that don't consume two skill slots they'd have to be significantly weaker than they are right now.

Dagoth_Rac

ZonasArch wrote: »

I will confess though that Tormentor is very disappointing in comparison, since the extra damage you'd get from the activate would be worth only 760dps & only functions above 50% health, making it a very inefficient morph.

Doesn't Tormentor have a higher base damage number than Matriarch? The active ability of the Tormentor is garbage (you are better off using a regular damage skill with that GCD than using the Tormentor active skill). Nonetheless, a higher base tooltip may be worthwhile if you do not need the Matriarch heal.

Aerenel

Yeah tormentor base still does more than matriarch base.

Overall I think people just need to prepare for their petsorcs to be either not wanted in mixed raids or relegated to a healer/tank role in mag raids.

Stamsorcs obviously should be fine.

Just the way the balance swings sometime.

universal_wrath

BrightOblivion wrote: »

bol wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

Notice how I didn't mention a second (if you can consider atro as a pet - I'll get into this later) pet? That's because within the entirety of that damage readout, down to skills doing a maximum of 2.6% of your damage, there is ZERO indication of any pet damage there. Given that, even if you never proc the special ability of whatever pet you're using, its passive damage is still referenced by the name of whatever pet you're using (I just checked this on both morphs of the familiar and the twilight to be sure), that means that, even with Daedric Prey, any non-atro pets did less than 2.6% of your total dps (less than 1956 of that 75.9k dps) in that 21m parse.

That is not true at all. In those parses, the matriarch does 6.7k damage, down to 6.2k with nerfed prey. It is in the parse as 'Zap'.
The Familiar attack is called 'Entropic Touch' as is 3.5k down to 3.0k with nerfed prey.
So the loss from these 2 pets due to prey nerf on his parses account for 1k of damage loss.

The attro damage is down from 7k to 5.7k. I think it would be outperformed by destro ulti at this point, and could get some of that damage back. So the rest of the loss is due to other factors not just prey nerf.

What I don't understand is WHY they would nerf prey, instead of buffing it? I think prey should give +100% damage to pets, but at the same time the base damage of pets should be nerfed more. That way there would be a greater difference between just having the pet tagging along doing damage while you do nothing, or your damage being the result of your action, the cast of daedric prey in this case. It would award skill, by keeping the buff uptime high, and it would prevent ppl from complaining that pets do way too much passive damage as you could always counter that its actually the curse that does that and not the pets, and the curse can be cleansed in pvp.

I considered that and, admittedly, I could not figure out the source for either of those skills. But, as I said, I tested it on the PTS with the most current version of CMX, using no other skills than Prey and the Familiar Pulse with both the familiar and the Matriarch summoned, using the Precursor because anything else would have been too boring. This is what I saw:

Then, to double-check, I did this same test on Live. Familiar and Matriarch. Just using the Familiar Pulse and Prey. On the Precursor. And saw this:

No Zap. No Entropic Touch. I'm not sure where those two skills came from, but what I'm seeing is exactly what I said I'm seeing. Pet damage labeled as being from the pet it came from. On the Live version, it even goes as far as to clearly specify the Familiar's Pulse vs Melee attack.

Regarding Prey, I've given up trying to understand ZOS's reasoning for what they do. One thing I'm sure of? Absolutely nothing is going to prevent people from complaining, particularly when it comes to sorcs and their pets.

Do same parse but choose twilight tormentor instead matriach and ise ita special ability. Twilight tormentor is dd morph and twiloght matriach is healing morph.

KageNin

Finally!

universal_wrath

Decimus wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Literally no one (who's worth mentioning) on Live: "pet sorc needs buffs".

Literally no one before PTS update 5.2.3: "I wish they'd increase pet damage"

PTS Update 5.2.3

Summon Unstable Familiar:
Increased the damage per hit of this ability and its morphs’ basic attacks by 20%.
Increased the damage of the pulse attack from this morph and the Volatile Familiar morph by 20%.

Summon Winged Twilight: Increased the damage per hit of this ability and its morphs by 20%.

Literally no one afterwards "oh, what a nice change"

PTS Update 5.2.4

Daedric Curse
Daedric Prey (morph): Reduced the bonus damage for pets to 20%, down from 40%.

Sorcs: WAAAH pEt sOrc EXtiNCT!!


...sometimes I wonder if people really understand things like math or logic.

Sorc pets will be amongst the strongest "DoTs" in game after this patch and are still buffed compared to what they do on Live (in particular the burst heal on Twilight, which I managed to get up to 17,3k tooltip with zero points in Blessed...).

Here's why:
2000 (random base number we'll use)+20% (the buff in 5.2.3)=2400+20% (new Daedric Prey)=2880
2000+40% (old Daedric Prey)=2800


...in other words, the damage done by pet sorc is increased compared to Live (particularly when curse is not on target). The healing from Matriarch is up by about 70% & is now the strongest burst heal in the game by far.


Stop crying.

Literally ignores 5.2.0 changes. Stop lying

Not at all, why do you think I brought up twilight having 17,3k tooltip on the heal (with zero points in Blessed)? That change was made in 5.2.0 & literally makes sorc have the strongest burst heal in the game.

Summon Unstable Familiar:
Reduced the damage of this ability and its morphs’ basic attack by approximately 17%.
Increased the cost of the special activate of this ability and the Volatile Familiar morph to 4500, up from 2808.
Increased the duration of the special activate to 10 seconds, up from 8.

If you refer to this, then yes - your scamp (which almost no one uses in PvP anyway) will deal a little bit less damage (-14,2%) when pet curse is on target, and about the same dmg (-0,4% to be precise!) when pet curse isn't active.

Meanwhile almost every other DoT in the game got nerfed by almost 50% and most of them remain weaker than damage done by pets (curse or no curse) after the patch.

Also newsflash: almost every other AoE damage "DoT" got a cost increase in patch 5.2.0

Blade Cloak:
Increased the base duration of this ability and its morphs to 10 seconds, up from 8.
Increased base cost to 4950, up from 3024.
Reduced the damage per tick by approximately 32%.

Spear Shards:
This ability and its morphs now last 10 seconds, up from 8.
Increased the base cost to 4950, up from 3024.

Fiery Breath:
This ability and its morphs now last 10 seconds at base, up from 8 seconds.
Increased base cost to 3510, up from 2808.

...but let me guess, pets should be exempt from this "injustice" - dealing more damage than those skills isn't enough?


I'd suggest reading through the patch notes again, and not just the sorcerer ones.

Yes, because unlike other skills and dots, sorcerer pets needs to be dauble bar in order to be used. I'm not sure why are still being compared to 1 slot skills. Never forget the fact that they die and need to be channel summon used again, they may not die in PvE or PvP no CP, but they are very easy to kill in CP PvP. As for the "dots" part, i use scamp or atleast summon it for the active skill since its base dmg is laughable and that dmg was reduces. Twilight tormentor is still a joke qctive ability only work on targets above 50% HP and no other unique mechanics for it, 2 slots for useless pet. Twlight matriachs is only usefull pet next patch as healer, dmg is even work that scamp I think. Heal got increased, but cost got increased as well. Healing scales on max magicka and not spell dmg only. So you would use matraich for heals only and it still takes 2 slots to use for heals. Good thing it is the strongest burst heal in the game because it value the 2 slots sacrificed.

I don't think any pet sorc user would mind pets sraying as they are now if they did not take 2 slots wach to use, which is the whole point and argument. You simply cannot compare a skill that takes 2 slots to use to a skill that only takes 1 slot.

I think you missed the part of the post where the "two skill slots" fallacy was debunked:

And they are - even more than twice as efficient.

With Matriarch you get a "DoT" that is amongst the strongest in the game after almost everything else is nerfed in this update and you get a burst heal that is almost double that of Honor the Dead.

A DoT and a burst heal - two skill slots, two "skills".


This on top of having a hitbox to hide inside in PvP, making it essentially RNG for the opponent if they hit you with ranged abilities (melee is a bit more reliable on hitting the right target, though not 100% either) or if they hit the pet instead.

Scamp? You get a "DoT" (again, stronger than most other DoTs after nerfs) and an AoE activate DoT (stronger than most other DoTs after nerfs) with a CC attached to it - again, essentially worth two skill slots.

For reference, on PTS my mDK with a build balanced for survivability/sustain gets 15,9k over 14 seconds tooltip on Embers, i.e. 1135 dmg per second.

My pet sorc on PTS with a build balanced for survivability/sustain gets 2,4k tooltip on Matriarch's zap (every 2s), meaning 1200 damage per second or 1440dps when pet curse is active.

This without ever having to actually spend a GCD & cast it on target.

So that's one skill.

Second part of the skill? 17,3k tooltip heal that heals the pet itself and two others - this is much stronger than Honor the Dead or any other non-ultimate burst heal in the game.

Summa summarum, you get two skill slots' worth of "value" by having Matriarch.


I will confess though that Tormentor is very disappointing in comparison, since the extra damage you'd get from the activate would be worth only 760dps & only functions above 50% health, making it a very inefficient morph.

Scamp? I have a 2543 tooltip (every 2s), meaning 1271dps - 1525 with per curse.

That's a "DoT" already, the activate on the other hand is dealing 4008 damage every 2 seconds (4809 with pet curse) which, needless to say, compares very favourably to other DoTs as well - so consider scamp to be worth two DoTs skills if not more.

I think closest comparison would be Deadly Cloak (just instead of Major Evasion you get a stun) - on my stamblade (25k stam 4,2k wpn dmg) Deadly Cloak is 1,2k damage per second - 2,4k every 2 seconds.

Yes, you can get the tooltip higher than that, but not to 4k every 2s...



Of course in PvP their efficiency goes down in scenarios where you're outnumbered and controlling the pets becomes difficult, but I don't think that's where most people find pet sorcs strong/annoying.


So if you want pets that don't consume two skill slots they'd have to be significantly weaker than they are right now.

Pets basic attack was adjusted to work every 1.5 secs instead of every 1 sec in Wrathstone, so you camparison in that regard is not accurate. I would rather have the "dot" removed for the skill to be 1 bar skill, because I can garntee that I can use other dots that deal more dmg. Pets only as vaible as the deadric prey skill with exception to the storm atronach. Free dots that are not as good as other dots. Only good free "dot" is tormentor pet and its active as you mentioned is disapponting. Pets in pvp only good in 1v1. No special affect to pets beaude the stun on volitile fimiliar. Burning ambers on dk is both dot and heals that scale on both spell dmg or max magicka. First part of Scamp is dot that is weaker than burn amber, scamp have chance for status effect while burning amber is garnteed. Burning ambers heals for x amount of g and scamp firdt part does not offer anything else that is special to it. Other part of scamp offers pulse every 2 secs and stun for last tick while other aoe skills get their bonuss either in first few secs or throw out the skill like firey breath or quick cloak. When it counts, scamp stun is bad in comparison to other aoe skills bonuses.

Matriach dot is weak and does not have any special effect to it like other dots. Healing part is good, but it only scale of max health and its cost is not even close to other urst heal skills and it is not effected cost reduction passive. Did I mention that pets scale of max magicka/stamina forcing the player to rely specifc sets and playstyle.

WrathOfInnos

universal_wrath wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

bol wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

Notice how I didn't mention a second (if you can consider atro as a pet - I'll get into this later) pet? That's because within the entirety of that damage readout, down to skills doing a maximum of 2.6% of your damage, there is ZERO indication of any pet damage there. Given that, even if you never proc the special ability of whatever pet you're using, its passive damage is still referenced by the name of whatever pet you're using (I just checked this on both morphs of the familiar and the twilight to be sure), that means that, even with Daedric Prey, any non-atro pets did less than 2.6% of your total dps (less than 1956 of that 75.9k dps) in that 21m parse.

That is not true at all. In those parses, the matriarch does 6.7k damage, down to 6.2k with nerfed prey. It is in the parse as 'Zap'.
The Familiar attack is called 'Entropic Touch' as is 3.5k down to 3.0k with nerfed prey.
So the loss from these 2 pets due to prey nerf on his parses account for 1k of damage loss.

The attro damage is down from 7k to 5.7k. I think it would be outperformed by destro ulti at this point, and could get some of that damage back. So the rest of the loss is due to other factors not just prey nerf.

What I don't understand is WHY they would nerf prey, instead of buffing it? I think prey should give +100% damage to pets, but at the same time the base damage of pets should be nerfed more. That way there would be a greater difference between just having the pet tagging along doing damage while you do nothing, or your damage being the result of your action, the cast of daedric prey in this case. It would award skill, by keeping the buff uptime high, and it would prevent ppl from complaining that pets do way too much passive damage as you could always counter that its actually the curse that does that and not the pets, and the curse can be cleansed in pvp.

I considered that and, admittedly, I could not figure out the source for either of those skills. But, as I said, I tested it on the PTS with the most current version of CMX, using no other skills than Prey and the Familiar Pulse with both the familiar and the Matriarch summoned, using the Precursor because anything else would have been too boring. This is what I saw:

Then, to double-check, I did this same test on Live. Familiar and Matriarch. Just using the Familiar Pulse and Prey. On the Precursor. And saw this:

No Zap. No Entropic Touch. I'm not sure where those two skills came from, but what I'm seeing is exactly what I said I'm seeing. Pet damage labeled as being from the pet it came from. On the Live version, it even goes as far as to clearly specify the Familiar's Pulse vs Melee attack.

Regarding Prey, I've given up trying to understand ZOS's reasoning for what they do. One thing I'm sure of? Absolutely nothing is going to prevent people from complaining, particularly when it comes to sorcs and their pets.

Do same parse but choose twilight tormentor instead matriach and ise ita special ability. Twilight tormentor is dd morph and twiloght matriach is healing morph.

You should never use the Tormentor’s active ability. It’s more DPS and cheaper to just leave it doing auto-attacks and cast any spammable instead.

FrancisCrawford

universal_wrath wrote: »

Pets basic attack was adjusted to work every 1.5 secs instead of every 1 sec in Wrathstone, so you camparison in that regard is not accurate. I would rather have the "dot" removed for the skill to be 1 bar skill, because I can garntee that I can use other dots that deal more dmg. Pets only as vaible as the deadric prey skill with exception to the storm atronach. Free dots that are not as good as other dots. Only good free "dot" is tormentor pet and its active as you mentioned is disapponting. Pets in pvp only good in 1v1. No special affect to pets beaude the stun on volitile fimiliar. Burning ambers on dk is both dot and heals that scale on both spell dmg or max magicka. First part of Scamp is dot that is weaker than burn amber, scamp have chance for status effect while burning amber is garnteed. Burning ambers heals for x amount of g and scamp firdt part does not offer anything else that is special to it. Other part of scamp offers pulse every 2 secs and stun for last tick while other aoe skills get their bonuss either in first few secs or throw out the skill like firey breath or quick cloak. When it counts, scamp stun is bad in comparison to other aoe skills bonuses.

Matriach dot is weak and does not have any special effect to it like other dots. Healing part is good, but it only scale of max health and its cost is not even close to other urst heal skills and it is not effected cost reduction passive. Did I mention that pets scale of max magicka/stamina forcing the player to rely specifc sets and playstyle.

The bolded parts aren't very accurate. Pet basic attacks are said to be every 2 seconds (I haven't checked, but if that's wrong they're even slower, not faster). And pets scale off of max magicka.

ThePhantomThorn

Pet sorcs are dead?

PARTY YES FINALLY NO ZERGLINGS WITH 4 PETS MAKING YOU UNABLET TO HIT THEM BUT CAN DEAL 100000 DPS IN PVP

Lord-Otto

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Pet sorcs are dead?

PARTY YES FINALLY NO ZERGLINGS WITH 4 PETS MAKING YOU UNABLET TO HIT THEM BUT CAN DEAL 100000 DPS IN PVP

Don't worry. You'll be back complaining about shields.

universal_wrath

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Pets basic attack was adjusted to work every 1.5 secs instead of every 1 sec in Wrathstone, so you camparison in that regard is not accurate. I would rather have the "dot" removed for the skill to be 1 bar skill, because I can garntee that I can use other dots that deal more dmg. Pets only as vaible as the deadric prey skill with exception to the storm atronach. Free dots that are not as good as other dots. Only good free "dot" is tormentor pet and its active as you mentioned is disapponting. Pets in pvp only good in 1v1. No special affect to pets beaude the stun on volitile fimiliar. Burning ambers on dk is both dot and heals that scale on both spell dmg or max magicka. First part of Scamp is dot that is weaker than burn amber, scamp have chance for status effect while burning amber is garnteed. Burning ambers heals for x amount of g and scamp firdt part does not offer anything else that is special to it. Other part of scamp offers pulse every 2 secs and stun for last tick while other aoe skills get their bonuss either in first few secs or throw out the skill like firey breath or quick cloak. When it counts, scamp stun is bad in comparison to other aoe skills bonuses.

Matriach dot is weak and does not have any special effect to it like other dots. Healing part is good, but it only scale of max health and its cost is not even close to other urst heal skills and it is not effected cost reduction passive. Did I mention that pets scale of max magicka/stamina forcing the player to rely specifc sets and playstyle.

The bolded parts aren't very accurate. Pet basic attacks are said to be every 2 seconds (I haven't checked, but if that's wrong they're even slower, not faster). And pets scale off of max magicka.

First part is correct I believe, i waish I have access to previous patch notes, but I remmember it used to be every 1 secs, but devs said that it was doing more dmg that way, so they reduced the freqency of their attacks to 1.5 secs from 1 sec.

Second part is typo, I just realized that I typed health instead of magicka for both volitile and twilight, thank for correction.

Olupajmibanan

ku5h wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Haven't they promised to move pet utility to haunting and make daedric prey stamina?

Don't even joke about that.

Actually, they promised to give the pet utility to base ability and both morphs leaving Haunting Curse as it is but with pet utility and reworking Daedric Prey to a stamina morph.