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The root of all evil is the CP system. Remove it already and stop nerfing EVERYTHING else
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StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Sets are the problem, not CP. Dmg has increased while CP has been stagnant, only proof you need.
Stop trying to kill the last bit of vertical progression the game has.
Stop calling vertical progression a system that is not progression. It was supposed to be but it failed. It's just a grind for new players and a was just a formality for veterans each 3 months.
Interesting, my wife joined up 3 months back, already at 418cp. She didn't think it was a grind. Just standard 2-3hr play after kids go to bed.
Oh well, if we are discusing about Fungal Grotto then im out.
Sorry to hear that it takes you 2-3 hours to complete Fungal Grotto, but why you trying to derail and throw your own thread off topic?7 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NeoXanthus wrote: »Title
You can spend your 810 CP however you want. It adds complexity and depth to your builds. It is not the reason for the recent nerfs in fact it is not even related as most of the complaints are from the battle grounds. CP however, is not instant gratification it takes time and If you don’t have 810 CP please take the time to get it rather than putting effort via the forums to take it away from the people that have invested the time & effort. Personally, I think that cap should be 1080 so we could put a total of 120 in each sign of the 3 constellations.
WTF are you talking about. I have almost 1400CP without trying. Its not about how hard is get CP or not, its about how all the other parts of the game have been gutted to leave space for CP.
Nothing has been "gutted" for cp. CP hasn't increased in almost a year, yet dps and survivability continue to increase, why is this so hard to understand?"It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard5 -
NeoXanthus✭✭✭✭NeoXanthus wrote: »Title
You can spend your 810 CP however you want. It adds complexity and depth to your builds. It is not the reason for the recent nerfs in fact it is not even related as most of the complaints are from the battle grounds. CP however, is not instant gratification it takes time and If you don’t have 810 CP please take the time to get it rather than putting effort via the forums to take it away from the people that have invested the time & effort. Personally, I think that cap should be 1080 so we could put a total of 120 in each sign of the 3 constellations.
WTF are you talking about. I have almost 1400CP without trying. Its not about how hard is get CP or not, its about how all the other parts of the game have been gutted to leave space for CP.
I am talking about there is no CP allowed BG and that is currently were most of the DoT balance issues are felt and the reason for the large nerfs. Taking away CP will not fix BG. So the point of this is post removing CP make no sense. Congrats on 1400CP I am only at 1334 myself.4 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »Sets are the problem, not CP. Dmg has increased while CP has been stagnant, only proof you need.
Stop trying to kill the last bit of vertical progression the game has.
Stop calling vertical progression a system that is not progression. It was supposed to be but it failed. It's just a grind for new players and a was just formality for veterans each 3 months.
How is it a grind? CP 0-300 takes hardly anytime at all... The game content is balanced around 300, once you are to that point you can complete any content in the game.
How are these new op sets not the problem?
Yes, all nice until you try to get in a guild to do trials and you get asked to get CP cap or gtfo. If you are talking about pvp, ye, try to pvp against someone with 810 cp having you 300. Oh, you can play no CP pvp, yes, that only reinforces my point. If we are talking about banished cells I, again, im out.
Lol. I was having plenty of fun and killing folks in PVP at 300 CP, and lower. Still having fun now and still under the CP cap. If you've been excluded from endgame pve I'm sorry, but you need a better group or guild from the sound of it.
Just because people exclude others based on an arbitrary number like CP, doesn't mean the system is to blame."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard1 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭rotaugen454 wrote: »It has nothing to do with gear sets too?
From my pov set powercreep such as Olo, yolna, rele, false etc.. Are a much bigger problem than CP.
But you can't just nerf set like this or removing CP.
The game is balanced around, lot of content are gonna be unreachable for a vast majority of player.
Which is already the case for thing like Godslayer.[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]2 -
caperon✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »NeoXanthus wrote: »Title
You can spend your 810 CP however you want. It adds complexity and depth to your builds. It is not the reason for the recent nerfs in fact it is not even related as most of the complaints are from the battle grounds. CP however, is not instant gratification it takes time and If you don’t have 810 CP please take the time to get it rather than putting effort via the forums to take it away from the people that have invested the time & effort. Personally, I think that cap should be 1080 so we could put a total of 120 in each sign of the 3 constellations.
WTF are you talking about. I have almost 1400CP without trying. Its not about how hard is get CP or not, its about how all the other parts of the game have been gutted to leave space for CP.
Nothing has been "gutted" for cp. CP hasn't increased in almost a year, yet dps and survivability continue to increase, why is this so hard to understand?
That's not true. From the top of my head: Streak, dodge roll fatigue, crit on proc sets, sustain, even the CP system itself was gutted from 25% to 13 on some stars, the way that buffs apply (additive vs multiplicative), permablock. CP created so many problems that ZOS needed years to balance the game around it and still now, CP amplify any problems you can have with itemization or skills. To the point that this supposed progresion system has been put on hold by ZOS themselves. 2 wrongs wont make it right. Remove the root of the problem and start balancing from there, better late than never!
Always will be power creep, mmo need progression to last, but CP fails to give that and created so many problems its past time it get scraped. ZOS decided to some sort of horizontal progression but i don't think it works very well.0 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »NeoXanthus wrote: »Title
You can spend your 810 CP however you want. It adds complexity and depth to your builds. It is not the reason for the recent nerfs in fact it is not even related as most of the complaints are from the battle grounds. CP however, is not instant gratification it takes time and If you don’t have 810 CP please take the time to get it rather than putting effort via the forums to take it away from the people that have invested the time & effort. Personally, I think that cap should be 1080 so we could put a total of 120 in each sign of the 3 constellations.
WTF are you talking about. I have almost 1400CP without trying. Its not about how hard is get CP or not, its about how all the other parts of the game have been gutted to leave space for CP.
Nothing has been "gutted" for cp. CP hasn't increased in almost a year, yet dps and survivability continue to increase, why is this so hard to understand?
That's not true. From the top of my head: Streak, dodge roll fatigue, crit on proc sets, sustain, even the CP system itself was gutted from 25% to 13 on some stars, the way that buffs apply (additive vs multiplicative), permablock. CP created so many problems that ZOS needed years to balance the game around it and still now, CP amplify any problems you can have with itemization or skills. To the point that this supposed progresion system has been put on hold by ZOS themselves. 2 wrongs wont make it right. Remove the root of the problem and start balancing from there, better late than never!
Always will be power creep, mmo need progression to last, but CP fails to give that and created so many problems its past time it get scraped. ZOS decided to some sort of horizontal progression but i don't think it works very well.
Lol again... Show me the dev post that says those things were "gutted" because of cp.
I do agree that CP does a poor job of vertical progression, but it's the only vertical progression the game has. What has to stop are the op sets that drop every new patch only to be nerfed the following patch. Gear churn is not progression."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard5 -
caperon✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »Sets are the problem, not CP. Dmg has increased while CP has been stagnant, only proof you need.
Stop trying to kill the last bit of vertical progression the game has.
Stop calling vertical progression a system that is not progression. It was supposed to be but it failed. It's just a grind for new players and a was just formality for veterans each 3 months.
How is it a grind? CP 0-300 takes hardly anytime at all... The game content is balanced around 300, once you are to that point you can complete any content in the game.
How are these new op sets not the problem?
Yes, all nice until you try to get in a guild to do trials and you get asked to get CP cap or gtfo. If you are talking about pvp, ye, try to pvp against someone with 810 cp having you 300. Oh, you can play no CP pvp, yes, that only reinforces my point. If we are talking about banished cells I, again, im out.
Lol. I was having plenty of fun and killing folks in PVP at 300 CP, and lower. Still having fun now and still under the CP cap. If you've been excluded from endgame pve I'm sorry, but you need a better group or guild from the sound of it.
Just because people exclude others based on an arbitrary number like CP, doesn't mean the system is to blame.
Thanks for your interest, but this has never been an issue for me personally, i've been above the cap since the 1st cap got introduced and i reached it, denying any sense of progression btw.
High end groups don't exclude people because arbitrary reasons, they do because you have to kill 400m hp in sunspire to do the hard modes, because you get hit for 15k (after CP mitigation) unavoidable dmg, because you get 5k/s dots in cloudrest. As I said, the game has been balanced around CP, and yes, removing CP would need rescaling the game in some way, but Brian Wheeler was willing to do it last patch when they tried to nerf healing (btw, healing is somehow stronger now, someone explain me).0 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They have to change it, evolve it, even nerf it, whatever - but you can't erase those CP. Lots of players would flip the F out if it got removed without a replacement. Upheaval like that is too risky to their profits when the status quo works for the majority of players.
I'd like to see it evolve before making it extinct.
Fear is the Mindkiller1 -
caperon✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »NeoXanthus wrote: »Title
You can spend your 810 CP however you want. It adds complexity and depth to your builds. It is not the reason for the recent nerfs in fact it is not even related as most of the complaints are from the battle grounds. CP however, is not instant gratification it takes time and If you don’t have 810 CP please take the time to get it rather than putting effort via the forums to take it away from the people that have invested the time & effort. Personally, I think that cap should be 1080 so we could put a total of 120 in each sign of the 3 constellations.
WTF are you talking about. I have almost 1400CP without trying. Its not about how hard is get CP or not, its about how all the other parts of the game have been gutted to leave space for CP.
Nothing has been "gutted" for cp. CP hasn't increased in almost a year, yet dps and survivability continue to increase, why is this so hard to understand?
That's not true. From the top of my head: Streak, dodge roll fatigue, crit on proc sets, sustain, even the CP system itself was gutted from 25% to 13 on some stars, the way that buffs apply (additive vs multiplicative), permablock. CP created so many problems that ZOS needed years to balance the game around it and still now, CP amplify any problems you can have with itemization or skills. To the point that this supposed progresion system has been put on hold by ZOS themselves. 2 wrongs wont make it right. Remove the root of the problem and start balancing from there, better late than never!
Always will be power creep, mmo need progression to last, but CP fails to give that and created so many problems its past time it get scraped. ZOS decided to some sort of horizontal progression but i don't think it works very well.
Lol again... Show me the dev post that says those things were "gutted" because of cp.
I do agree that CP does a poor job of vertical progression, but it's the only vertical progression the game has. What has to stop are the op sets that drop every new patch only to be nerfed the following patch. Gear churn is not progression.
I don't need any dev post. I was playing when CP got introduced and saw the rise of permastreak, permarolling, permablock, instagibs, etc. I was playing when they nerfed the CP system because it was even more ridiculous with 25% stars and 15% cost reduction or when they had to change the damage and mitigation formulas to additive because CP catapulted everything out of control.
About the sets, yes, new patch always brings stronger sets, that's because there is not any other vertical progression, since CP failed at that and horizontal progression doesn't work to retain players.1 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've proposed a fix for CP that would tie CP to the Major/Minor buff system, cap its power, make bonuses conditional and require upkeep, and preserve the best utility passives. This would eliminate all major gripes about the system and require smarter build strategies to take advantage of it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/492739/how-to-fix-cp-easy-and-balanced0 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »NeoXanthus wrote: »Title
You can spend your 810 CP however you want. It adds complexity and depth to your builds. It is not the reason for the recent nerfs in fact it is not even related as most of the complaints are from the battle grounds. CP however, is not instant gratification it takes time and If you don’t have 810 CP please take the time to get it rather than putting effort via the forums to take it away from the people that have invested the time & effort. Personally, I think that cap should be 1080 so we could put a total of 120 in each sign of the 3 constellations.
WTF are you talking about. I have almost 1400CP without trying. Its not about how hard is get CP or not, its about how all the other parts of the game have been gutted to leave space for CP.
Nothing has been "gutted" for cp. CP hasn't increased in almost a year, yet dps and survivability continue to increase, why is this so hard to understand?
That's not true. From the top of my head: Streak, dodge roll fatigue, crit on proc sets, sustain, even the CP system itself was gutted from 25% to 13 on some stars, the way that buffs apply (additive vs multiplicative), permablock. CP created so many problems that ZOS needed years to balance the game around it and still now, CP amplify any problems you can have with itemization or skills. To the point that this supposed progresion system has been put on hold by ZOS themselves. 2 wrongs wont make it right. Remove the root of the problem and start balancing from there, better late than never!
Always will be power creep, mmo need progression to last, but CP fails to give that and created so many problems its past time it get scraped. ZOS decided to some sort of horizontal progression but i don't think it works very well.
Lol again... Show me the dev post that says those things were "gutted" because of cp.
I do agree that CP does a poor job of vertical progression, but it's the only vertical progression the game has. What has to stop are the op sets that drop every new patch only to be nerfed the following patch. Gear churn is not progression.
I don't need any dev post. I was playing when CP got introduced and saw the rise of permastreak, permarolling, permablock, instagibs, etc. I was playing when they nerfed the CP system because it was even more ridiculous with 25% stars and 15% cost reduction or when they had to change the damage and mitigation formulas to additive because CP catapulted everything out of control.
About the sets, yes, new patch always brings stronger sets, that's because there is not any other vertical progression, since CP failed at that and horizontal progression doesn't work to retain players.
So no evidence other than your own assumptions...
Gotcha."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard5 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The vast majority of dps increases comes from:
1) new, stronger sets, usually attached to DLC
2) changes to game mechanics, LA damage buff, enchant changes, off balance changes, changes to damage calculations
3) Players getting better
Used to have a little bit of that increase come from CP but that hasn’t been the case for nearly a year. Even then it hardly made much difference. The shift from cp501 (the launch cap) and cp801 was honestly less impactful that the LA buffs on their own.5 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZarkingFrued wrote: »Oh wow, people get really upset at dying in this game, dont they? Half my Xes come from Battlegrounds with no CP. There is absolutely nothing you can do that will stop you from getting bursted. Dizzy nerf? Not saving you. Ani cancel nerfs? Not saving you. Dot nerfs? Not saving you. Every time you nerf players that are better than you the nerf hits you as well. Just stop lol. At least explain why you feel it's a problem, because making statements with no supporting information is just sad.
I would like to disagree with this....
but I Can't
It covers everything
2 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Sets are the problem, not CP. Dmg has increased while CP has been stagnant, only proof you need.
Stop trying to kill the last bit of vertical progression the game has.
Stop calling vertical progression a system that is not progression. It was supposed to be but it failed. It's just a grind for new players and a was just a formality for veterans each 3 months.
Interesting, my wife joined up 3 months back, already at 418cp. She didn't think it was a grind. Just standard 2-3hr play after kids go to bed.
Oh well, if we are discusing about Fungal Grotto then im out.
I have no idea what your point here is 2 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We haven't had a CP increase in a year, and yet somehow DPS goes up and up.
Yet somehow, people are still under the assumption that CP is the reason and cause of everything plaguing ESO.
It's mind boggling....7 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NeoXanthus wrote: »Title
You can spend your 810 CP however you want. It adds complexity and depth to your builds. It is not the reason for the recent nerfs in fact it is not even related as most of the complaints are from the battle grounds. CP however, is not instant gratification it takes time and If you don’t have 810 CP please take the time to get it rather than putting effort via the forums to take it away from the people that have invested the time & effort. Personally, I think that cap should be 1080 so we could put a total of 120 in each sign of the 3 constellations.
So very true^1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It seems OP is really just upset they are not at the CP cap. Of course I had to gleam from another post OP made because said nothing in their OP.
To OP. Zos will ignore this thread because of the pointless OP saying only title and the pretty meaningless title itself. If you really think about it they cannot read your mind and your OP is fairly void of actual thought and comes off as a pointless rant, though a very short one.
If you have something to say then say it. As it is it appears you do not consider your complain even worth explaining what you are actually complaining about.Edited by idk on September 24, 2019 11:19PM4 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »Sets are the problem, not CP. Dmg has increased while CP has been stagnant, only proof you need.
Stop trying to kill the last bit of vertical progression the game has.
Stop calling vertical progression a system that is not progression. It was supposed to be but it failed. It's just a grind for new players and a was just formality for veterans each 3 months.
How is it a grind? CP 0-300 takes hardly anytime at all... The game content is balanced around 300, once you are to that point you can complete any content in the game.
How are these new op sets not the problem?
Yes, all nice until you try to get in a guild to do trials and you get asked to get CP cap or gtfo. If you are talking about pvp, ye, try to pvp against someone with 810 cp having you 300. Oh, you can play no CP pvp, yes, that only reinforces my point. If we are talking about banished cells I, again, im out.
Lol. I was having plenty of fun and killing folks in PVP at 300 CP, and lower. Still having fun now and still under the CP cap. If you've been excluded from endgame pve I'm sorry, but you need a better group or guild from the sound of it.
Just because people exclude others based on an arbitrary number like CP, doesn't mean the system is to blame.
Thanks for your interest, but this has never been an issue for me personally, i've been above the cap since the 1st cap got introduced and i reached it, denying any sense of progression btw.
High end groups don't exclude people because arbitrary reasons, they do because you have to kill 400m hp in sunspire to do the hard modes, because you get hit for 15k (after CP mitigation) unavoidable dmg, because you get 5k/s dots in cloudrest. As I said, the game has been balanced around CP, and yes, removing CP would need rescaling the game in some way, but Brian Wheeler was willing to do it last patch when they tried to nerf healing (btw, healing is somehow stronger now, someone explain me).
They never nerfed healing, they reworked three skills. People cried "nerf" but it was never a nerf.1 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree completely that CP is the root of all evil...however not regarding nerfs...nerfs are always welcomed and I cant wait for more "tactical" undermining...and regarding CP its the root of all evil on the server load...all those numbers and calculations for no real benefit and the bonuses are so insignificant...I wish we had the cp system like talent trees with a lot of variation and simple passives and after certain tresholds give us either active skills or passives...and not being able to unlock all of them but a certain amount..so we should choose wisely or make hybrids...give some flavor...right now im not eager if we ever get more cp cap increase to the point of 3600 just to get that extra 0.0001% stat pools...0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Sets are the problem, not CP. Dmg has increased while CP has been stagnant, only proof you need.
Stop trying to kill the last bit of vertical progression the game has.
A lot of people don't do maths well. I blame the education system.1 -
Orjix✭✭✭✭okay, hear me out in this one, if they remove CP what will i see a constant numerical increase in? this may sound silly but being able to constantly work towards a higher number is a HUGE factor in why I still play. sure it may seem silly and kinda arbitrary as i have over the max spendable, but if they take it away what are they going to replace it with so it still "feels" like you can make progress?0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's not CP as much as people think it is lol.
The only thing CP is doing is giving people a little more survival in pvp, in non-cp it's more like CoD where first strike is usually going to win.
And it's giving people a bunch of bonuses, half of which or more were built into the base game to begin with and removed for CP.
Top guilds have run trials with no CP and burned through them no problem. It's not the CP, it's the gear. No way to always release better sets that people want to upgrade to if it's not an upgrade. You do that constantly and you have power creep.
I like some progression, so with no CP and no gear upgrades, I'd find a new game. Last thing they need to do is give people more reasons to move on.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC3 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Grind? 2hours play a night, started afresh on pc in March. CP760... that’s 6 months.
It took me much longer on console, better part of 18 months from it being introduced.
Catch up mechanic in full swing it seems.
I play on 2 platforms and have 2 accounts; that’s 2x ESO+ per months plus purchases around housing and vanity items on both platforms. Playing daily since console launch, pc account created since beta. If they pulled cp now, that would invalidate all my time, effort and investment. It would be a huge middle finger for me. If if were removed without adequate recompense in the form of an alternate system... I would exit stage left... not just me, but I’d assume many others would feel the same.
Edited by mairwen85 on September 25, 2019 6:13AM2 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭ZarkingFrued wrote: »Oh wow, people get really upset at dying in this game, dont they? Half my Xes come from Battlegrounds with no CP. There is absolutely nothing you can do that will stop you from getting bursted. Dizzy nerf? Not saving you. Ani cancel nerfs? Not saving you. Dot nerfs? Not saving you. Every time you nerf players that are better than you the nerf hits you as well. Just stop lol. At least explain why you feel it's a problem, because making statements with no supporting information is just sad.
Poorly managed game..Switch to BDO.
Better combat system for pvp. Better graphics too.0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CP certainly is the main culprit imo, but alot of gearsets 5piece bonuses and specificly proccsets are aswell. Proccsets are too strong in NOCP imo
PC EU
PvP only0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CP certainly is the main culprit imo, but alot of gearsets 5piece bonuses and specificly proccsets are aswell. Proccsets are too strong in NOCP imo
Like OP you are really not saying anything. Main culprit for what? Certainly you are not talking about power creep because the math does not support that in any means. Basically we have no idea what the issue is you are talking about.4
