New Moon Acolyte - 5% not enough cost inc.

Asgari

I have used this set extensively on PTS dueling people and i can say that the 5% cost increase along with other increases stam got that this is seriously felt when wearing the set.

If i take this set off and use other sets comparable without the 5% i do slightly less dmg overall but i sustain just fine the entire time. This set is pretty balanced with how costs are.

starkerealm

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

People who think this set deserves a nerf are bad and should feel bad.

We finally get a set that isn't some stupid gimmicky procset and y'all want it nerfed before pts barely started. Pathetic.

People cry about power creep.

Zos literally bring in stronger and stronger set lmao.

It gives dmg, pen, crit and then massive dmg lmao. Set gives 1.5k pen, 600 unbuffed wpn/ spell dmg and some crit. Yeah its strong af.

PvE
This video showcase very well that New Moon Acolyte isn´t as overperforming as people claim. It´s a situational set, which is more or less the case for mosts sets these days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5qMTCQgsYY

PvP
With DoT´s being nerfed to the ground, and healing being left untouched, we´re in for a "Tank META 2.0" on steroids (assuming ZOS doesn´t change too much from the initial PTS notes). And for once, ZOS gives us a set that can kinda counter this, that isn´t a stupid proc set, and that has noticable trade of (especially with the addition to numerous cost increase of a lot of other skills).

Set should stay as it is and make it to live.

I do wonder how NMA + PFGD parses versus MS + PFGD, but with a damage race (Altmer/Dunmer). You'd need a second piece of sustain (like absorb glyph) to make it work, but I'm wondering if it's stronger in that setting.

You lose damage on the absorb glyph.

That's the thing about this set, it looks hilariously good on paper, but once you start trying to run it, you find you need to give up a lot of unexpected things to make it work.

starkerealm

Asgari wrote: »

I have used this set extensively on PTS dueling people and i can say that the 5% cost increase along with other increases stam got that this is seriously felt when wearing the set.

If i take this set off and use other sets comparable without the 5% i do slightly less dmg overall but i sustain just fine the entire time. This set is pretty balanced with how costs are.

It gets really interesting with VO (and I assume False God), because it feels fine when you're dealing with popcorn trash and getting resources back from those kills, but when you move into situations where you're not getting killed, yeah, the "curse" is there. That said, NMA+FGD/VO will be very nice for vMA runs. But, that's also, vMA, where you carve through everything like popcorn.

Canned_Apples

@starkerealm

No, it's hyperbole.

Chelo

starkerealm wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Just ask a crafter and that's it... Anyone can get this in less than 2 minutes...

I am a nine trait crafter. Hell, I'm a grandmaster.

However, it's going to take a bit more than two minutes for most people to get their hands on this set.

EDIT: The point is valid, this isn't going to be difficult to obtain, however, this isn't a set that fully invalidates older sets, even if that is the hot take a lot of people are chasing.

Chelo wrote: »

Join a guild, ask a crafter... Done...

I've asked myself, and already crafted it on PTS. I'll probably ask myself again on live, if I care enough to.

To be honest, having tested it, I like this set, but it is a lot more niche than it looks at first glance.

Im getting it full legendary (even jewelry) day 1, in less than 2 minutes... So pretty much anyone could do exactly the same (craft yourself or asking someone).

The point is that this set is "too good" and "too easy" to get. Making other dps crafted sets obsolete... Julianos and Hunding both give 299 spell/weapon dmg, NMA give 481 spell/weapon dmg.

Devs should make Julianos and Hunding give at least 350 dmg, so NMA don't become the obvious choice...

Chelo

starkerealm wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

People who think this set deserves a nerf are bad and should feel bad.

We finally get a set that isn't some stupid gimmicky procset and y'all want it nerfed before pts barely started. Pathetic.

People cry about power creep.

Zos literally bring in stronger and stronger set lmao.

It gives dmg, pen, crit and then massive dmg lmao. Set gives 1.5k pen, 600 unbuffed wpn/ spell dmg and some crit. Yeah its strong af.

PvE
This video showcase very well that New Moon Acolyte isn´t as overperforming as people claim. It´s a situational set, which is more or less the case for mosts sets these days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5qMTCQgsYY

PvP
With DoT´s being nerfed to the ground, and healing being left untouched, we´re in for a "Tank META 2.0" on steroids (assuming ZOS doesn´t change too much from the initial PTS notes). And for once, ZOS gives us a set that can kinda counter this, that isn´t a stupid proc set, and that has noticable trade of (especially with the addition to numerous cost increase of a lot of other skills).

Set should stay as it is and make it to live.

I do wonder how NMA + PFGD parses versus MS + PFGD, but with a damage race (Altmer/Dunmer). You'd need a second piece of sustain (like absorb glyph) to make it work, but I'm wondering if it's stronger in that setting.

You lose damage on the absorb glyph.

That's the thing about this set, it looks hilariously good on paper, but once you start trying to run it, you find you need to give up a lot of unexpected things to make it work.

I going to use it with False God Devotion and problem solved...

Also just to clarify, I prefer a rework to old sets (to make them more competitive with all the new stuff we got over the years) than a nerf to new sets. I didn't like the nerf to Curse Eater months ago, it was an interesting set at start and became another trash set when it went live.

Just give people more options, don't make NMA the obvious choice...

sly007

Chelo wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Uh. For the people saying older sets will become obsolete, are you new and if you're not, what rock have you been living under? Sets that use to be go to or BiS are no longer such with the introduction of newer sets. That's an inevitability shown over the years. It is good to have diversity but for the purposes of what is the absolute best, there will always be one irrefutable set that's best.

Yeah but not for a crafted set. If it was a trial set or requiere a high end ultra rare material, it would be ok but, Literally anyone can craft this in less than 2 minutes.

This is too powerful (compare to other crafted sets) and too easy to get. There's not a equivalent relation between Difficulty and Reward.

You can be a new player, first character 160cp, get this set, pair it with an overland set and that's it... You are ready for everything. For a Casual point of view, this set will take out all the work of farming.

So you rather keep crafting irrelevant? A major part of the game that everyone participates. While keeping trails even more relevant, that very few participate. Hmm.

starkerealm

Canned_Apples wrote: »

@starkerealm

No, it's hyperbole.

@Canned_Apples, hey, you know what these boards really need more of, right now, with everyone losing their minds over the nerfs, running around, screaming about how they're the end times?

starkerealm

Chelo wrote: »

I going to use it with False God Devotion and problem solved...

Also just to clarify, I prefer a rework to old sets (to make them more competitive with all the new stuff we got over the years) than a nerf to new sets. I didn't like the nerf to Curse Eater months ago, it was an interesting set at start and became another trash set when it went live.

Just give people more options, don't make NMA the obvious choice...

That's the thing here, if you're going with NMA, you're "stuck" with FGD (or VO) if you want to get around the cost increase. Which, of course gets back to the point where FGD and VO are two of the best sustain sets in the game if you can splatter trash while you fight. Compare, contrast, to something like Briarheart or Mother's Sorrow, where you can mix in whatever other set you want. You're not chained to having another set boost your sustain.

NMA looks like a more obvious choice than it is, because it does leave you with gaps in your build that you'd normally not have to worry about. If it goes live, as it is, we're going to see a lot of people crying about how bad sustain is this patch, while they slot this in over their Warmaiden, Hundings, Briar, or whatever.

Chelo wrote: »

Im getting it full legendary (even jewelry) day 1, in less than 2 minutes... So pretty much anyone could do exactly the same (craft yourself or asking someone).

I'd recommend against going weapons/jewelry with this set unless you absolutely have to (for some reason), and instead run body. Especially on a mag build.

As paired with FGD, there are some cost increase jump points. One of those jump points is 2 gold/3 purple. So, if you're wanting to run this set, you'll be paying lower costs for all your abilities at 5 purple, or 1 gold/4 purple. Which lends itself to your body slots. If you try weapons and jewels, golding your weapon alone will push you into the full legendary bracket.

Now, I"m not sure what these look like if you've got, say, Mother's Sorrow, instead of FGD, but at the moment, weapons and jewelry for this set is a bit of a noob trap.

katorga

To be honest, having tested it, I like this set, but it is a lot more niche than it looks at first glance.

Bingo. Hybrid damage builds just don't work well due to splitting CP, unbalanced crit chance, and needing both types of pen. Where it might work is going hybrid for magicka heals on a stamina class build...Stamplar with back bar honor the dead burst heals for example. I used to do that with Pelinals....5K spell damage back bar. It never really panned out.

5% cost increase is a lot for only a 181 or so more weapon damage than run of the mill sets.

Chelo

sly007 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Uh. For the people saying older sets will become obsolete, are you new and if you're not, what rock have you been living under? Sets that use to be go to or BiS are no longer such with the introduction of newer sets. That's an inevitability shown over the years. It is good to have diversity but for the purposes of what is the absolute best, there will always be one irrefutable set that's best.

Yeah but not for a crafted set. If it was a trial set or requiere a high end ultra rare material, it would be ok but, Literally anyone can craft this in less than 2 minutes.

This is too powerful (compare to other crafted sets) and too easy to get. There's not a equivalent relation between Difficulty and Reward.

You can be a new player, first character 160cp, get this set, pair it with an overland set and that's it... You are ready for everything. For a Casual point of view, this set will take out all the work of farming.

So you rather keep crafting irrelevant? A major part of the game that everyone participates. While keeping trails even more relevant, that very few participate. Hmm.

Why not rework old sets? Why are they introducing clearly superior sets available to craft only in DLC zones? $$$....

Chelo

starkerealm wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I going to use it with False God Devotion and problem solved...

Also just to clarify, I prefer a rework to old sets (to make them more competitive with all the new stuff we got over the years) than a nerf to new sets. I didn't like the nerf to Curse Eater months ago, it was an interesting set at start and became another trash set when it went live.

Just give people more options, don't make NMA the obvious choice...

That's the thing here, if you're going with NMA, you're "stuck" with FGD (or VO) if you want to get around the cost increase. Which, of course gets back to the point where FGD and VO are two of the best sustain sets in the game if you can splatter trash while you fight. Compare, contrast, to something like Briarheart or Mother's Sorrow, where you can mix in whatever other set you want. You're not chained to having another set boost your sustain.

NMA looks like a more obvious choice than it is, because it does leave you with gaps in your build that you'd normally not have to worry about. If it goes live, as it is, we're going to see a lot of people crying about how bad sustain is this patch, while they slot this in over their Warmaiden, Hundings, Briar, or whatever.

Chelo wrote: »

Im getting it full legendary (even jewelry) day 1, in less than 2 minutes... So pretty much anyone could do exactly the same (craft yourself or asking someone).

I'd recommend against going weapons/jewelry with this set unless you absolutely have to (for some reason), and instead run body. Especially on a mag build.

As paired with FGD, there are some cost increase jump points. One of those jump points is 2 gold/3 purple. So, if you're wanting to run this set, you'll be paying lower costs for all your abilities at 5 purple, or 1 gold/4 purple. Which lends itself to your body slots. If you try weapons and jewels, golding your weapon alone will push you into the full legendary bracket.

Now, I"m not sure what these look like if you've got, say, Mother's Sorrow, instead of FGD, but at the moment, weapons and jewelry for this set is a bit of a noob trap.

Just want the absolute possible damage of NMA hahaha 😆 and I love FGD, it's my fav PvE set, its just so versatile!

starkerealm

Chelo wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Uh. For the people saying older sets will become obsolete, are you new and if you're not, what rock have you been living under? Sets that use to be go to or BiS are no longer such with the introduction of newer sets. That's an inevitability shown over the years. It is good to have diversity but for the purposes of what is the absolute best, there will always be one irrefutable set that's best.

Yeah but not for a crafted set. If it was a trial set or requiere a high end ultra rare material, it would be ok but, Literally anyone can craft this in less than 2 minutes.

This is too powerful (compare to other crafted sets) and too easy to get. There's not a equivalent relation between Difficulty and Reward.

You can be a new player, first character 160cp, get this set, pair it with an overland set and that's it... You are ready for everything. For a Casual point of view, this set will take out all the work of farming.

So you rather keep crafting irrelevant? A major part of the game that everyone participates. While keeping trails even more relevant, that very few participate. Hmm.

Why not rework old sets? Why are they introducing clearly superior sets available to craft only in DLC zones? $$$....

They have reworked some old sets. Though the crafting sets could use some love. I thought I remembered someone mentioning another pass at the crafting sets, but that was awhile ago. I've got the weird suspicion that any set reworks are going to be after the combat audit. Looking at some of the changes and sets (including NMA), I've got a feeling that there's some very major stat changes in the near future, which would make changes right now a bit premature. But, that's a guess.

I don't think this is going to render Hundings/Juli irrelevant, especially because of the cost increase. That said, I do think this and Ancient Dragonguard are going to replace Hundings/Juli for sets on leveling characters. The cost increases will be less important (especially since they scale with level and rarity), while the set bonuses will lend themselves nicely to low level characters, especially ones who don't have access to stam morphs for some of the class abilities they're going to be using.

Chelo

starkerealm wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Uh. For the people saying older sets will become obsolete, are you new and if you're not, what rock have you been living under? Sets that use to be go to or BiS are no longer such with the introduction of newer sets. That's an inevitability shown over the years. It is good to have diversity but for the purposes of what is the absolute best, there will always be one irrefutable set that's best.

Yeah but not for a crafted set. If it was a trial set or requiere a high end ultra rare material, it would be ok but, Literally anyone can craft this in less than 2 minutes.

This is too powerful (compare to other crafted sets) and too easy to get. There's not a equivalent relation between Difficulty and Reward.

You can be a new player, first character 160cp, get this set, pair it with an overland set and that's it... You are ready for everything. For a Casual point of view, this set will take out all the work of farming.

So you rather keep crafting irrelevant? A major part of the game that everyone participates. While keeping trails even more relevant, that very few participate. Hmm.

Why not rework old sets? Why are they introducing clearly superior sets available to craft only in DLC zones? $$$....

They have reworked some old sets. Though the crafting sets could use some love. I thought I remembered someone mentioning another pass at the crafting sets, but that was awhile ago. I've got the weird suspicion that any set reworks are going to be after the combat audit. Looking at some of the changes and sets (including NMA), I've got a feeling that there's some very major stat changes in the near future, which would make changes right now a bit premature. But, that's a guess.

I don't think this is going to render Hundings/Juli irrelevant, especially because of the cost increase. That said, I do think this and Ancient Dragonguard are going to replace Hundings/Juli for sets on leveling characters. The cost increases will be less important (especially since they scale with level and rarity), while the set bonuses will lend themselves nicely to low level characters, especially ones who don't have access to stam morphs for some of the class abilities they're going to be using.

You have no idea how many obsolete sets I have in my bank "just in case" they actually do a rework hahaha 😆 I even still holding that Martial Knowledge (even with the last rework they did, the set still NOT worth wearing).

starkerealm

Chelo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Uh. For the people saying older sets will become obsolete, are you new and if you're not, what rock have you been living under? Sets that use to be go to or BiS are no longer such with the introduction of newer sets. That's an inevitability shown over the years. It is good to have diversity but for the purposes of what is the absolute best, there will always be one irrefutable set that's best.

Yeah but not for a crafted set. If it was a trial set or requiere a high end ultra rare material, it would be ok but, Literally anyone can craft this in less than 2 minutes.

This is too powerful (compare to other crafted sets) and too easy to get. There's not a equivalent relation between Difficulty and Reward.

You can be a new player, first character 160cp, get this set, pair it with an overland set and that's it... You are ready for everything. For a Casual point of view, this set will take out all the work of farming.

So you rather keep crafting irrelevant? A major part of the game that everyone participates. While keeping trails even more relevant, that very few participate. Hmm.

Why not rework old sets? Why are they introducing clearly superior sets available to craft only in DLC zones? $$$....

They have reworked some old sets. Though the crafting sets could use some love. I thought I remembered someone mentioning another pass at the crafting sets, but that was awhile ago. I've got the weird suspicion that any set reworks are going to be after the combat audit. Looking at some of the changes and sets (including NMA), I've got a feeling that there's some very major stat changes in the near future, which would make changes right now a bit premature. But, that's a guess.

I don't think this is going to render Hundings/Juli irrelevant, especially because of the cost increase. That said, I do think this and Ancient Dragonguard are going to replace Hundings/Juli for sets on leveling characters. The cost increases will be less important (especially since they scale with level and rarity), while the set bonuses will lend themselves nicely to low level characters, especially ones who don't have access to stam morphs for some of the class abilities they're going to be using.

You have no idea how many obsolete sets I have in my bank "just in case" they actually do a rework hahaha 😆 I even still holding that Martial Knowledge (even with the last rework they did, the set still NOT worth wearing).

No, but I do know how many I've got. It's not a pretty sight. I don't (intentionally) have any Martial Knowledge, though I don't usually save overland stuff I'm not using. So many Asylum weapons I'll never use though, that's a different story.

Edit: also, sooo many monster shoulders that I might need some day, and don't want to fish for in the right trait and weight...

techprince

Cost increase should be at 8%.

Rungar

im pretty sure this is meant to be a pvp set to get people out of heavy armor.

starkerealm

Rungar wrote: »

im pretty sure this is meant to be a pvp set to get people out of heavy armor.

It's not going to do that, though. Because it's crafted, you can make it in heavy.

Fiktius

Questions for those who thinks the set should get a higher cost increase:
Have you actually tested it out in PTS and how did it feel like while using in combat? How did you deal with your sustain?
What kind of content you did? PvE or PvP?

I crafted in PTS medium NMA set and tested it with my Necromancer by dueling against different players (until wild guard appeared and killed me and my dueling partner).
I tried similar build which I have on live server, which is a combination of damage set + defense set. I don't need sustain set on live either, so I would rather not change my damage set if I would have to run sustain set as exchange, so that's what I wanted to find out and figure can I handle the cost.

I can say that I didn't notice much difference at early state of the combat, but when I had equally skilled opponent, fights became longer and there that 5 % cost increase started to be noticeable and I had to keep closer eye on my resources.
And there comes the situation when I thought: Why I would use NMA when another sets could offer me high damage under different conditions, without hurting my sustain?

I very likely will give NMA another round in live, if the set comes out unchanged. However if the cost will increase above 5 %,
I rather keep my gold and never craft it.

starkerealm

@Fiktius, in a world boss tour, the resource pressure did pop up on some of them.

Fiktius

@starkerealm Out of curiosity, which race you had in use while doing that world boss tour?

I did my own testing with Woodelf which got flat stam regen as passive, which I forgot to mention in previous post of mine above. I was thinking I could do testing with Redguard and Dark Elf with similar build in order to see how that 5 % cost increase feel with different races in same kind of build. 🤔

starkerealm

Fiktius wrote: »

@starkerealm Out of curiosity, which race you had in use while doing that world boss tour?

I did my own testing with Woodelf which got flat stam regen as passive, which I forgot to mention in previous post of mine above. I was thinking I could do testing with Redguard and Dark Elf with similar build in order to see how that 5 % cost increase feel with different races in same kind of build. 🤔

Did the world boss testing on an Imperial.

My first bit of testing with the set was a Stam Breton in VO, so, I didn't notice the cost increases much there.

Kolzki

It’s pretty weird that it scales from 4% to 5% cost increase when upgraded from purple to gold.

Mayrael

techprince wrote: »

Cost increase should be at 8%.

Ok so you have seducer that reduces cost of ONLY magicka skills by 10% and you would have this set to increase cost of EVERYTHING what is active to 8%. It looks for me like I would need to loose more than a 5pc bonus to get other 5pc bonus which in the end gives my less then 5pc. So why would I use this set? Nah, set is good in its current state. Even the fact that most people need to test will it affect their sustain by a lot shows it needs to be used carefully, not like Relequen or Lokkestii.