New Moon Acolyte - 5% not enough cost inc.

Masty_Spy

According to math and thoughts from many forum threads, ZOS should change this SET TO:

(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical and Spell Critical
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage and Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1487 Physical Penetration and Spell Penetration
(5 items) Adds 500 Weapon Damage and Spell Damage.

Increase the cost of your active abilities by 8%.

WD and SD small buff and extra cost 8%

Schattenfluegel

On a MagDK, maybe Magsorc, and Stamsorc, the cost of this set are really really high. Bad Idea..

BahometZ

Naaaah, wait till people have bought the DLC, then nerf it.

Nordic__Knights

Put more then 2 response because i fell it shouldn't be there at all - the 5% cost and you have a good set for all classes mag and stam dps = balance

Vapirko

You definitely feel the drain at 5%. But it is a good set. Idk. I’m ok with it I think.

starkerealm

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

On a MagDK, maybe Magsorc, and Stamsorc, the cost of this set are really really high. Bad Idea..

That's, actually, the mistake. This set is not for a mag or stam build. This thing is designed to support hybrids, and it does, shockingly enough. This will let you hit pen cap on mag and phys simultaneously, and can turn out some disgusting damage stats.

When you're casting out of both pools, the cost increases becomes trivial.

This will get some use in select stam and mag builds that are already resource efficient, (including StamSorcs, ironically), but the major beneficiaries are going to be the hybrids.

starkerealm

Incidentally, there is an issue with the 5% cost increase, in that it's not, actually, 5%. Not sure exactly what's wrong, the modifiers are close-ish, but they're incorrect.

Schattenfluegel

starkerealm wrote: »

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

On a MagDK, maybe Magsorc, and Stamsorc, the cost of this set are really really high. Bad Idea..

That's, actually, the mistake. This set is not for a mag or stam build. This thing is designed to support hybrids, and it does, shockingly enough. This will let you hit pen cap on mag and phys simultaneously, and can turn out some disgusting damage stats.

When you're casting out of both pools, the cost increases becomes trivial.

This will get some use in select stam and mag builds that are already resource efficient, (including StamSorcs, ironically), but the major beneficiaries are going to be the hybrids.

Then yes, i was Looking from an Pve Raid DD perspective.

UrbanMonk

One decent Thing about next patch apart from all the Crap we are about to get, and people just cant wait for the patch to drop before starting to make Nerf Threads.
All of the Nerf threads for this set, not one has given any evidence or a logical reason, why this set is over performing?

Ist it strong? Yes.
Is it OP? NO

There are other sets, which give you more or less same Damage values, without the added 5% cost increase to abilities, but no one seems to care about them. Rather than crying for nerf, how about Push ZOS to make useless sets viable for PVP or PVE.
Enough with these nerf threads.

Epicasballs

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

One decent Thing about next patch apart from all the Crap we are about to get, and people just cant wait for the patch to drop before starting to make Nerf Threads.
All of the Nerf threads for this set, not one has given any evidence or a logical reason, why this set is over performing?

Ist it strong? Yes.
Is it OP? NO

There are other sets, which give you more or less same Damage values, without the added 5% cost increase to abilities, but no one seems to care about them. Rather than crying for nerf, how about Push ZOS to make useless sets viable for PVP or PVE.
Enough with these nerf threads.

For real. They already nerfed damage by a fair amount and increased the cost of skills... let's maybe not nerf damage sets too.

umagon

New moon acolyte’s penalty is too easily off set by sets like battlefield acrobat that apply cost reductions or sets that enhance resource generation. Which are exactly the kind of sets that would be paired with new moon acolyte even if it did not have a penalty. So, the penalty essentially doesn’t exist. It’s too much power for no cost. The penalty needs to be increased to point where it cannot be completely offset by cost reduction or resource regeneration sets.

Muzzick

umagon wrote: »

New moon acolyte’s penalty is too easily off set by sets like battlefield acrobat that apply cost reductions or sets that enhance resource generation. Which are exactly the kind of sets that would be paired with new moon acolyte even if it did not have a penalty. So, the penalty essentially doesn’t exist. It’s too much power for no cost. The penalty needs to be increased to point where it cannot be completely offset by cost reduction or resource regeneration sets.

Not really sure how battlefield acrobat cancels this, that means your costs are back to baseline and you're using two 5 piece set bonuses for that 487 damage which isn't OP

Dagoth_Rac

umagon wrote: »

New moon acolyte’s penalty is too easily off set by sets like battlefield acrobat that apply cost reductions or sets that enhance resource generation. Which are exactly the kind of sets that would be paired with new moon acolyte even if it did not have a penalty. So, the penalty essentially doesn’t exist. It’s too much power for no cost. The penalty needs to be increased to point where it cannot be completely offset by cost reduction or resource regeneration sets.

Isn't needing to run a resource set instead of another damage set an offset? If you need to run New Moon + Battlefield Acrobat because New Moon + Hunding or New Moon + Spriggans or New Moon + whatever leaves you out of resources too often, that does not seem like free power.

Qbiken

umagon wrote: »

New moon acolyte’s penalty is too easily off set by sets like battlefield acrobat that apply cost reductions or sets that enhance resource generation. Which are exactly the kind of sets that would be paired with new moon acolyte even if it did not have a penalty. So, the penalty essentially doesn’t exist. It’s too much power for no cost. The penalty needs to be increased to point where it cannot be completely offset by cost reduction or resource regeneration sets.

How about no?

ketsparrowhawk

umagon wrote: »

New moon acolyte’s penalty is too easily off set by sets like battlefield acrobat that apply cost reductions or sets that enhance resource generation. Which are exactly the kind of sets that would be paired with new moon acolyte even if it did not have a penalty. So, the penalty essentially doesn’t exist. It’s too much power for no cost. The penalty needs to be increased to point where it cannot be completely offset by cost reduction or resource regeneration sets.

Wouldn't the offset be equipping the sustain set? It would presumably be replacing a damage or defensive set, so you're definitely sacrificing something there..

MaleAmazon

New moon acolyte’s penalty is too easily off set by sets like battlefield acrobat that apply cost reductions or sets that enhance resource generation. Which are exactly the kind of sets that would be paired with new moon acolyte even if it did not have a penalty. So, the penalty essentially doesn’t exist.

Err what? Youd use one 5-p bonus just to offset a penalty? Youd be better off just going hundings + other damage set.

Just adjust the skill cost to a reasonable level if 5% is too low, and lets not destroy this interesting set, shall we?

kitty79

it's not a proc set, so it's ok

WacArnold

We are going to get back into tank meta again. Wanting nerfs on sets that gives damage. If you want the 5% uped we will have to spend more on recovery and it will just even out to being another normal damage set that gives mediocre damge. I want to kill and be killed not stalemate every fight unless i join a zerg.

Lets try some heavy damage this next patch plus it would make it where if you dont want to die you have to spec into defense so much that yeah you dont die but you dont get kills like a tank should be. High damage comes with low def hi def comes with low damage not both.

Tommy_The_Gun

I can agree on more % cost, but then it should only affects skills, but not ultimates.
Abilities = skills + ultimates.

universal_wrath

Yo, my stamsorc has 5% cost reduction. I think it goes very will with this set.

umagon

Healing output still scales off spell/weapon damage and/or stam/mag pool size. New moon acolyte increases both damage output and survivability through increasing healing output without the need to invest heavily into defensive damage mitigation sets. The set gives enhancements all points of the damage output, healing output, and survivability trinity, with a 100% up time at little cost and it does this for both spell and weapon damage. If the set only increased damage output then there would not be so much of a problem with it but because the damage output and healing output use the same stats the set is a bit too much for the low penalty.

redspecter23

I'm convinced that they are replacing some of the power lost from the nerfs by upcoming sets. My net damage is still lower than current live servers so if anything, I'd be happy if they reversed it to your abilities costing 5% less. I think I'd still have lower damage than I do currently, but with at least some sort of buff to even it out.

Basically, if I'm taking a huge nerf to damage, there is no flipping way I'm complaining in any way about this set.

ATreeGnome

I would like to see this set balanced around racial passives so sustain oriented races, such a Bretons and Redguards, can essentially trade most of their sustain bonuses for weapon or spell damage that would put them in line with Altermer and Orcs.

So if we use Hunding/Julianos as a base line and add the racial bonus, 299+258 = 557 weapon/spell damage.

On the sustain penalty side, 8% cost increase would seem approximately right to offset racial sustain bonuses. Possibly 9 or 10% to offset things like the 100 magicka regen that Bretons get as well.

JobooAGS

cost reduction is multiplicative, not additive. So a set like Battlefield acrobat with thus set would make the net cost be 98.7% of base.

If you are wearing 5 medium armor and you are using a weapon ability as a redguard, your cost without either set will be 71.9% the base cost. (76.5% without redguard) add in NMA and the numbers become 73.9% (80.3% without redguard) of base cost.

Emma_Overload

LOL, why are people trying so hard to get this set nerfed?

I swear, I think some people expect to gold out ONE set of gear for the entire life of the game. They get upset at the mere thought that they may have to upgrade to a new meta or piece of best-in-slot gear.

Then, of course, there are all the Bind-on-Pickup snobs who believe that crafted gear should NEVER be as good as dropped gear. LOL, how selfish can you get?

Just stop making these threads. ZOS obviously did the math and came up with a reasonable "kiss curse". If you don't think 5% cost increase is a big deal, try wearing a few pieces of heavy armor instead of medium or light for PvE and then see how good your sustain is!

jecks33

we are going back to a terrible sustain/heavy attack rotations and you ask for more cost increse? really?

Emma_Overload

Seriously, you guys know they just NERFED DPS by 20% to 25%, right?

Check out what @T3hasiangod has to say about the PTS:

https://youtu.be/ICHoRi972bI

Guys, this set could give us 1000 extra spell damage, and it's not going to make a difference. Power creep is dead!

katorga

How is this even close to overpowered?

The increase weapon and spell damage is in line with other conditional 5-piece bonuses: 400-750..

The condition for the buff is extreme, and the calculations around it will likely be buggy and incorrect. If active abilities includes block, dodge, break free, it is a non-starter for pvp.

The benefit it gives you is dubious at best, because hybrids have never been that great.

Finedaible

New Moon Acolyte is fine the way it is. Sustain is already gonna be terrible if these ability cost increases go live.

As some have pointed out, they nerfed dps across the whole game by a large amount, so new players are gonna need all the help they can get if they want to start getting into veteran content. The set doesn't even counter the damage nerfs.

Crafting has been so boring for years with very few useful sets, and some useful sets like Night Mother's Gaze even got nerfed. I am glad to finally see something good for crafters after all these years tbh.

redlink1979

How I wish consoles could have/use combat metrics...

MLGProPlayer

Emma_Overload wrote: »

LOL, why are people trying so hard to get this set nerfed?

I swear, I think some people expect to gold out ONE set of gear for the entire life of the game. They get upset at the mere thought that they may have to upgrade to a new meta or piece of best-in-slot gear.

Then, of course, there are all the Bind-on-Pickup snobs who believe that crafted gear should NEVER be as good as dropped gear. LOL, how selfish can you get?

Just stop making these threads. ZOS obviously did the math and came up with a reasonable "kiss curse". If you don't think 5% cost increase is a big deal, try wearing a few pieces of heavy armor instead of medium or light for PvE and then see how good your sustain is!

I don't like sets that make combat less fun. Reducing sustain = less fun.

This set is numerically stronger than pretty much any set in the game. I haven't tested it, but if it turns out to be viable for endgame (PvE and PvP), you can bet everyone will be using it. I don't want a meta that revolves around even less sustain than we already have. Resource management in this game isn't enjoyable.