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ZOS, you make me dread playing this game
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MojaveHeld wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.
Dude, who is getting melted that fast besides inexperienced players and gank/glass cannon builds that go out of position?
I see high-CP players of damn near every class and build type that have incredible damage mitigation while still being lethal. High-MMR Deathmatches already go to the time limit in basically every game, usually with scores still in the 200s. Can you even imagine CP PvP? 1v1 fights are literally not going to be possible to finish on an update like this.
I was referring to PvE mostly when I said everything just gets melted.
PvP has improved significantly since the last update when they attached cast times etc. Though a good premade can still melt people I promise you.
100% agreed. And premades coordinating definitely can wreck, but if this patch goes live that will be the only viable option. Individual effect on the game is going to be utterly squashed.
Why can we not get meaningful overland content that's challenging? Or new difficulties/challenges on the existing content? This is just insane. And it's going to effect new players and casual players the worst because they're likely playing solo and can't possibly dedicate the time to keep up with these meta shifts. I play quite a lot as it is and I can't justify it.
I doubt new players or casuals care much about meta shifts Sorbin.
Which nerfs have you so upset? It would probably help if I knew specifically which one you were referring to.
I mean, they've essentially just nuked damage and sustain across the board. Dizzy has more counter-play than almost any skill in the game and people have been used to that for literally 5 years now, but this will make it utterly obsolete. Dots are going right back into the dustbin of ESO history in PvP, instead of offering any sort of counter-play options (a stam Purge, a milder nerf, ANYTHING). And as of now, mitigation and heals are mostly untouched. This patch is the death of 1v1 right now.
And ironically, the most overtuned *** in this patch hasn't even been addressed. Onslaught should've been the first item on the list for an adjustment and it isn't even mentioned. The Stamplar Onslaught-Jabs-POTL combo is completely intact. I can't honestly take their vision of balance seriously.
I just don't get it. These forums were aflame over DoTs being too powerful. Now it's up in arms because they nerfed them.
1v1 was never much of thing anyway. It's nearly irrelevant outside of Duels. So PvP should not be balanced around that. At worse - you'll simply draw your friends more when you duel them. Where is the harm in that? I really can't think of any.
Mitigation and heals needed to be left untouched because defensive options are not out of control on this game. You can't stack defense with other players like you can offense. Try building a defensive character capable of living through a coordinated attack in battlegrounds then get back with me. You'll find it's not easy, and certainly no where close to approaching overpowered.
Now maybe you're right in respect to Onslaught. But I've never really understood what all the fuss was over when it came to jabs. That ability just isn't that powerful in my experience. It may be a serious threat to glass cannons is all I can guess. But Templars generally are just exaggerated way too much on this forum. That or they just shine in CP PvP or something (which I don't participate in). But in none CP PvP they just aren't all that.
It's about the amount.MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Jeremy. you're completely clueless. Combat is supposed to be balanced around what is required for the vet trials. You balance it around the mostly difficult things you ask your players to do, and if they want a challenge, they will go do that content. Overland content and normal dungeons being easy does not mean dps needs a nerf, and no sane or reasonable person who even remotely understands the game would ever claim otherwise. You've fully discredited yourself.
Nah. I disagree. That's a terrible idea in my judgement.
Veteran Trials are a tiny portion of this game and not even frequented by the vast majority of players. It's very important for developers to take into account the full scope of their game and not expect players to have to go into Veteran Trials every time they want a decent challenge.
So you can think I'm "clueless" or "fully discredited" myself all you want, or what ever. All I can say in response is I pretty much feel the same about your comments.
And it's not just the Overland and Normal dungeons that are too easy due to player damage being too powerful. Many Veteran Dungeons are as well. It's a systemic problem throughout the entire game and it needed to be addressed. So I'm glad the developers are - even if it's not my preferred method I'll still take what I can get.
You can disagree all you want, but you're objectively wrong. This is a cardinal rule of MMO design. You balance around the most difficult content you ask players to do. That's a rule you don't break. This isn't up for debate, it's a fact.
And you can disagree all you want, but it's you who are "objectively wrong". Anyone who designs an MMO under your supposed "Cardinal Rule" where a player has to join a Veteran Trial if they want a challenge is going to end up with a failed MMO. That's a ridiculous approach to any MMO.
No, breaking that rule is how failed MMOs occur. You are utterly clueless and totally irredeemable. This discussion is over, the only thing you can do with people as far gone as you is ignore them.
You can keep calling me names all you want. But if anything is utterly clueless it's your repeated nonsense that it's good design for players to be expected to join Veteran Trials every time they want a challenge. That's a terrible approach to any MMO - and especially this one.
And please: do me the favor and ignore me. I welcome it.Edited by Jeremy on September 17, 2019 7:44PM0 -
The_Lex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.
Dude, who is getting melted that fast besides inexperienced players and gank/glass cannon builds that go out of position?
I see high-CP players of damn near every class and build type that have incredible damage mitigation while still being lethal. High-MMR Deathmatches already go to the time limit in basically every game, usually with scores still in the 200s. Can you even imagine CP PvP? 1v1 fights are literally not going to be possible to finish on an update like this.
I was referring to PvE mostly when I said everything just gets melted.
PvP has improved significantly since the last update when they attached cast times etc. Though a good premade can still melt people I promise you.
100% agreed. And premades coordinating definitely can wreck, but if this patch goes live that will be the only viable option. Individual effect on the game is going to be utterly squashed.
Why can we not get meaningful overland content that's challenging? Or new difficulties/challenges on the existing content? This is just insane. And it's going to effect new players and casual players the worst because they're likely playing solo and can't possibly dedicate the time to keep up with these meta shifts. I play quite a lot as it is and I can't justify it.
I doubt new players or casuals care much about meta shifts Sorbin.
Which nerfs have you so upset? It would probably help if I knew specifically which one you were referring to.
I mean, they've essentially just nuked damage and sustain across the board. Dizzy has more counter-play than almost any skill in the game and people have been used to that for literally 5 years now, but this will make it utterly obsolete. Dots are going right back into the dustbin of ESO history in PvP, instead of offering any sort of counter-play options (a stam Purge, a milder nerf, ANYTHING). And as of now, mitigation and heals are mostly untouched. This patch is the death of 1v1 right now.
And ironically, the most overtuned *** in this patch hasn't even been addressed. Onslaught should've been the first item on the list for an adjustment and it isn't even mentioned. The Stamplar Onslaught-Jabs-POTL combo is completely intact. I can't honestly take their vision of balance seriously.
I just don't get it. These forums were aflame over DoTs being too powerful. Now it's up in arms because they nerfed them.
It's not so much the nerfing of DoTs. They needed nerfing. Most people are exhausted from the constant major pendulum-swinging changes from patch to patch.
Adapting is one thing. Having to take a build completely to the drawing board is quite another.
I can understand that. But I believe it's better to deal with some hardship and get a better game because of it than simply settle for mediocrity - which is what this game was rapidly progressing towards. Because the truth is players have just simply outgrown too much of this game's content and something dramatic had to be done to salvage it. It was starting to border on the edge of boredom. It's sad how easily Veteran Players can melt so much of the content. And expecting players to run to a Veteran Trial every time they want a challenge (I'm not saying you were suggesting that) is not a realistic solution.
Okay, so how much hardship should we "deal with" to get a better game? For how long? This pendulum has been swinging pretty steadily for quite some time now. Hence, the exhaustion.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Jeremy they dont listen to feedback on the pts. If they did the dot inc wouldn't have gone love as well as everything else they were told was over performing on past pts cycles.
I think it's fair to criticize them on their DoT blunder. So I don't really disagree with you about that.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.
Dude, who is getting melted that fast besides inexperienced players and gank/glass cannon builds that go out of position?
I see high-CP players of damn near every class and build type that have incredible damage mitigation while still being lethal. High-MMR Deathmatches already go to the time limit in basically every game, usually with scores still in the 200s. Can you even imagine CP PvP? 1v1 fights are literally not going to be possible to finish on an update like this.
I was referring to PvE mostly when I said everything just gets melted.
PvP has improved significantly since the last update when they attached cast times etc. Though a good premade can still melt people I promise you.
100% agreed. And premades coordinating definitely can wreck, but if this patch goes live that will be the only viable option. Individual effect on the game is going to be utterly squashed.
Why can we not get meaningful overland content that's challenging? Or new difficulties/challenges on the existing content? This is just insane. And it's going to effect new players and casual players the worst because they're likely playing solo and can't possibly dedicate the time to keep up with these meta shifts. I play quite a lot as it is and I can't justify it.
I doubt new players or casuals care much about meta shifts Sorbin.
Which nerfs have you so upset? It would probably help if I knew specifically which one you were referring to.
I mean, they've essentially just nuked damage and sustain across the board. Dizzy has more counter-play than almost any skill in the game and people have been used to that for literally 5 years now, but this will make it utterly obsolete. Dots are going right back into the dustbin of ESO history in PvP, instead of offering any sort of counter-play options (a stam Purge, a milder nerf, ANYTHING). And as of now, mitigation and heals are mostly untouched. This patch is the death of 1v1 right now.
And ironically, the most overtuned *** in this patch hasn't even been addressed. Onslaught should've been the first item on the list for an adjustment and it isn't even mentioned. The Stamplar Onslaught-Jabs-POTL combo is completely intact. I can't honestly take their vision of balance seriously.
I just don't get it. These forums were aflame over DoTs being too powerful. Now it's up in arms because they nerfed them.
It's not so much the nerfing of DoTs. They needed nerfing. Most people are exhausted from the constant major pendulum-swinging changes from patch to patch.
Adapting is one thing. Having to take a build completely to the drawing board is quite another.
I can understand that. But I believe it's better to deal with some hardship and get a better game because of it than simply settle for mediocrity - which is what this game was rapidly progressing towards. Because the truth is players have just simply outgrown too much of this game's content and something dramatic had to be done to salvage it. It was starting to border on the edge of boredom. It's sad how easily Veteran Players can melt so much of the content. And expecting players to run to a Veteran Trial every time they want a challenge (I'm not saying you were suggesting that) is not a realistic solution.
Okay, so how much hardship should we "deal with" to get a better game? For how long? This pendulum has been swinging pretty steadily for quite some time now. Hence, the exhaustion.
Well you have to keep in mind this is a new development team. So I don't believe it's fair to hold them responsible for the blunders of all the previous ones. And aside from the DoT miscalculation, I would describe the last update as a successful one. But to answer your question more directly, I believe giving them at least a few more updates to get things settled is reasonable.
It's not easy to make huge changes like this to a game and it's going to require some patience on our part. But it needed to happen - and it shows this development team actually does care about the state of the game (I had my doubts about the last one).Edited by Jeremy on September 17, 2019 7:52PM0 -
ZOS_RogerJ✭✭✭✭We've closed this thread to prevent further spiraling of the thread and given the previous notice within the thread. While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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