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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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ZOS, you make me dread playing this game
Sorbin
✭✭✭✭
Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
69
-
Wispsister✭✭✭Yeah. The number changes look very dramatic. I almost want to believe it's some kind of weird joke.14 -
ShellaSunshine✭✭✭The game is too easy and has been for years because of the Champion Points system.
I welcome the new changes because challenge is what makes a game interesting.2 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭ShellaSunshine wrote: »The game is too easy and has been for years because of the Champion Points system.
I welcome the new changes because challenge is what makes a game interesting.
I mean that's undoubtedly true; Champion Points might as well be named "Power Creep: The Game".
But where's the CP overhaul? And more importantly, where is the challenging content? Overland is still going to be a joke. The top raid guilds are going to identify a meta and stick to it as always. We aren't getting any sort of overland worth playing for endgame characters, or new difficulties and challenges in the dungeons.
I would LOVE for this game to have more challenging content. I would happily continue my subscription/pay for Chapters that included new content that was meant for endgame builds, or meaningfully updated legacy content to contain new challenges. But attempting to make old content challenging by simply nuking every damage skill in the game has got to be the one of the most lazy, cynical approaches to game design that I can ever remember seeing. I'm not even saying this to be mean to ZOS, I'm not trying to be malicious, this just utterly makes me never want to pick this game up again. There are dozens more challenging games that don't feel like they're actively trying to pull the rug out from under their playerbase.14 -
Austinseph1✭✭✭✭✭All its going to affect is the people that only do 12k dps in a dungeon will now do 6k and make things more drawn out. Im glad I got all undaunted skill lines capped already, because group finder is going to be molasses in winter. People pulling the high numbers will complete everything just fine, newer players will just face more pressure and probably look at other games for the satisfaction.15 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShellaSunshine wrote: »The game is too easy and has been for years because of the Champion Points system.
I welcome the new changes because challenge is what makes a game interesting.
It's like you took the words right out of my mouth. ^^0 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.
Dude, who is getting melted that fast besides inexperienced players and gank/glass cannon builds that go out of position?
I see high-CP players of damn near every class and build type that have incredible damage mitigation while still being lethal. High-MMR Deathmatches already go to the time limit in basically every game, usually with scores still in the 200s. Can you even imagine CP PvP? 1v1 fights are literally not going to be possible to finish on an update like this.4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.
Dude, who is getting melted that fast besides inexperienced players and gank/glass cannon builds that go out of position?
I see high-CP players of damn near every class and build type that have incredible damage mitigation while still being lethal. High-MMR Deathmatches already go to the time limit in basically every game, usually with scores still in the 200s. Can you even imagine CP PvP? 1v1 fights are literally not going to be possible to finish on an update like this.
I was referring to PvE mostly when I said everything just gets melted.
PvP has improved significantly since the last update when they attached cast times etc. Though a good premade can still melt people I promise you. As far as 1v1 (which is largely irrelevant if you ask me) evenly matched opponents should draw. I see nothing wrong with that.Edited by Jeremy on September 17, 2019 2:37AM2 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.
Dude, who is getting melted that fast besides inexperienced players and gank/glass cannon builds that go out of position?
I see high-CP players of damn near every class and build type that have incredible damage mitigation while still being lethal. High-MMR Deathmatches already go to the time limit in basically every game, usually with scores still in the 200s. Can you even imagine CP PvP? 1v1 fights are literally not going to be possible to finish on an update like this.
I was referring to PvE mostly when I said everything just gets melted.
PvP has improved significantly since the last update when they attached cast times etc. Though a good premade can still melt people I promise you.
100% agreed. And premades coordinating definitely can wreck, but if this patch goes live that will be the only viable option. Individual effect on the game is going to be utterly squashed.
Why can we not get meaningful overland content that's challenging? Or new difficulties/challenges on the existing content? This is just insane. And it's going to effect new players and casual players the worst because they're likely playing solo and can't possibly dedicate the time to keep up with these meta shifts. I play quite a lot as it is and I can't justify it.3 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭They just do major meta changes too fast, major meta should be per chapter, minor should be per DLC....but they do MAJOR MAJOR ):Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling6 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.
Dude, who is getting melted that fast besides inexperienced players and gank/glass cannon builds that go out of position?
I see high-CP players of damn near every class and build type that have incredible damage mitigation while still being lethal. High-MMR Deathmatches already go to the time limit in basically every game, usually with scores still in the 200s. Can you even imagine CP PvP? 1v1 fights are literally not going to be possible to finish on an update like this.
I was referring to PvE mostly when I said everything just gets melted.
PvP has improved significantly since the last update when they attached cast times etc. Though a good premade can still melt people I promise you.
100% agreed. And premades coordinating definitely can wreck, but if this patch goes live that will be the only viable option. Individual effect on the game is going to be utterly squashed.
Why can we not get meaningful overland content that's challenging? Or new difficulties/challenges on the existing content? This is just insane. And it's going to effect new players and casual players the worst because they're likely playing solo and can't possibly dedicate the time to keep up with these meta shifts. I play quite a lot as it is and I can't justify it.
I doubt new players or casuals care much about meta shifts Sorbin.
Which nerfs have you so upset? It would probably help if I knew specifically which one you were referring to.2 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭They just do major meta changes too fast, major meta should be per chapter, minor should be per DLC....but they do MAJOR MAJOR ):
This is what I'm saying. They literally don't give this community even remotely enough time to adjust to metas or develop counter-play. Why not just try some smaller changes first and see the results? We literally just entered a relative damage meta (relative to previous update, people are still tanky af) and we are already staring down the barrel of what looks like the tankiest meta to date.
This kind of utterly drastic change is not within the realm of sanity.6 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.
Dude, who is getting melted that fast besides inexperienced players and gank/glass cannon builds that go out of position?
I see high-CP players of damn near every class and build type that have incredible damage mitigation while still being lethal. High-MMR Deathmatches already go to the time limit in basically every game, usually with scores still in the 200s. Can you even imagine CP PvP? 1v1 fights are literally not going to be possible to finish on an update like this.
I was referring to PvE mostly when I said everything just gets melted.
PvP has improved significantly since the last update when they attached cast times etc. Though a good premade can still melt people I promise you.
100% agreed. And premades coordinating definitely can wreck, but if this patch goes live that will be the only viable option. Individual effect on the game is going to be utterly squashed.
Why can we not get meaningful overland content that's challenging? Or new difficulties/challenges on the existing content? This is just insane. And it's going to effect new players and casual players the worst because they're likely playing solo and can't possibly dedicate the time to keep up with these meta shifts. I play quite a lot as it is and I can't justify it.
I doubt new players or casuals care much about meta shifts Sorbin.
Which nerfs have you so upset? It would probably help if I knew specifically which one you were referring to.
I mean, they've essentially just nuked damage and sustain across the board. Dizzy has more counter-play than almost any skill in the game and people have been used to that for literally 5 years now, but this will make it utterly obsolete. Dots are going right back into the dustbin of ESO history in PvP, instead of offering any sort of counter-play options (a stam Purge, a milder nerf, ANYTHING). And as of now, mitigation and heals are mostly untouched. This patch is the death of 1v1 right now.
And ironically, the most overtuned *** in this patch hasn't even been addressed. Onslaught should've been the first item on the list for an adjustment and it isn't even mentioned. The Stamplar Onslaught-Jabs-POTL combo is completely intact. I can't honestly take their vision of balance seriously.
1 -
Philtho✭✭✭I got in on the free weekend because it's fun to play single player. I ended up buying because this is a great chill single player game with some multiplayer on top. The last thing I was expecting is huge nerfs left and right this far into the games lifecycle. That kind of stress is why I play games to get away from.
It looks like many of these are because of PvP which EQ and WoW learned long ago, never balance for PvP.
DoTs are meant to be low cost high damage with the downside of taking forever to do the damage. It's looking like instant casts are as good as DoTs, so why have DoTs to begin with?
Pretty much watch any of the streamers and they're all saying how terrible this is on the PTR. Total meltdowns, these dudes can't even breathe they're so stressed.11 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭I got in on the free weekend because it's fun to play single player. I ended up buying because this is a great chill single player game with some multiplayer on top. The last thing I was expecting is huge nerfs left and right this far into the games lifecycle. That kind of stress is why I play games to get away from.
It looks like many of these are because of PvP which EQ and WoW learned long ago, never balance for PvP.
DoTs are meant to be low cost high damage with the downside of taking forever to do the damage. It's looking like instant casts are as good as DoTs, so why have DoTs to begin with?
Pretty much watch any of the streamers and they're all saying how terrible this is on the PTR. Total meltdowns, these dudes can't even breathe they're so stressed.
Thank you for this perspective. This is the kind of thing that needs to be heard. No one likes to see their build potentially getting utterly nuked to Oblivion no matter what type of content you enjoy. And the smartest solution for ZOS would have been to balance PvP and PvE separately YEARS ago. But, in lieu of that, if these two elements of the game are going to be balanced simultaneously, why such drastic changes? Why not subtly tweak things and introduce counter-play? If PvE difficulty is the problem, why not add a new difficulty level to high-end content, or just outright buff some of the mobs? Especially when you have a sizable portion of players asking every week for more challenging content!
ZOS, do you realize that a player on console has not even been playing this patch for a month? The overwhelming majority of console players have probably NOT downloaded the PTS on a PC and been playing builds there, so they've had roughly 3 weeks of real time to actual be hands-on with the current meta. And now builds are being destroyed.
As a balance measure, it seems like it was honestly created in the midst of a manic episode. And if this is the way you want to hook players into the endless grind, I can't imagine people are going to want to tolerate having playstyles they enjoy made obsolete for very much longer.11 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.
Dude, who is getting melted that fast besides inexperienced players and gank/glass cannon builds that go out of position?
I see high-CP players of damn near every class and build type that have incredible damage mitigation while still being lethal. High-MMR Deathmatches already go to the time limit in basically every game, usually with scores still in the 200s. Can you even imagine CP PvP? 1v1 fights are literally not going to be possible to finish on an update like this.
I was referring to PvE mostly when I said everything just gets melted.
PvP has improved significantly since the last update when they attached cast times etc. Though a good premade can still melt people I promise you.
100% agreed. And premades coordinating definitely can wreck, but if this patch goes live that will be the only viable option. Individual effect on the game is going to be utterly squashed.
Why can we not get meaningful overland content that's challenging? Or new difficulties/challenges on the existing content? This is just insane. And it's going to effect new players and casual players the worst because they're likely playing solo and can't possibly dedicate the time to keep up with these meta shifts. I play quite a lot as it is and I can't justify it.
I doubt new players or casuals care much about meta shifts Sorbin.
Which nerfs have you so upset? It would probably help if I knew specifically which one you were referring to.
I mean, they've essentially just nuked damage and sustain across the board. Dizzy has more counter-play than almost any skill in the game and people have been used to that for literally 5 years now, but this will make it utterly obsolete. Dots are going right back into the dustbin of ESO history in PvP, instead of offering any sort of counter-play options (a stam Purge, a milder nerf, ANYTHING). And as of now, mitigation and heals are mostly untouched. This patch is the death of 1v1 right now.
And ironically, the most overtuned *** in this patch hasn't even been addressed. Onslaught should've been the first item on the list for an adjustment and it isn't even mentioned. The Stamplar Onslaught-Jabs-POTL combo is completely intact. I can't honestly take their vision of balance seriously.
I just don't get it. These forums were aflame over DoTs being too powerful. Now it's up in arms because they nerfed them.
1v1 was never much of thing anyway. It's nearly irrelevant outside of Duels. So PvP should not be balanced around that. At worse - you'll simply draw your friends more when you duel them. Where is the harm in that? I really can't think of any.
Mitigation and heals needed to be left untouched because defensive options are not out of control on this game. You can't stack defense with other players like you can offense. Try building a defensive character capable of living through a coordinated attack in battlegrounds then get back with me. You'll find it's not easy, and certainly no where close to approaching overpowered.
Now maybe you're right in respect to Onslaught. But I've never really understood what all the fuss was over when it came to jabs. That ability just isn't that powerful in my experience. It may be a serious threat to glass cannons is all I can guess. But Templars generally are just exaggerated way too much on this forum. That or they just shine in CP PvP or something (which I don't participate in). But in none CP PvP they just aren't all that.Edited by Jeremy on September 17, 2019 3:19AM1 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.
Dude, who is getting melted that fast besides inexperienced players and gank/glass cannon builds that go out of position?
I see high-CP players of damn near every class and build type that have incredible damage mitigation while still being lethal. High-MMR Deathmatches already go to the time limit in basically every game, usually with scores still in the 200s. Can you even imagine CP PvP? 1v1 fights are literally not going to be possible to finish on an update like this.
I was referring to PvE mostly when I said everything just gets melted.
PvP has improved significantly since the last update when they attached cast times etc. Though a good premade can still melt people I promise you.
100% agreed. And premades coordinating definitely can wreck, but if this patch goes live that will be the only viable option. Individual effect on the game is going to be utterly squashed.
Why can we not get meaningful overland content that's challenging? Or new difficulties/challenges on the existing content? This is just insane. And it's going to effect new players and casual players the worst because they're likely playing solo and can't possibly dedicate the time to keep up with these meta shifts. I play quite a lot as it is and I can't justify it.
I doubt new players or casuals care much about meta shifts Sorbin.
Which nerfs have you so upset? It would probably help if I knew specifically which one you were referring to.
I mean, they've essentially just nuked damage and sustain across the board. Dizzy has more counter-play than almost any skill in the game and people have been used to that for literally 5 years now, but this will make it utterly obsolete. Dots are going right back into the dustbin of ESO history in PvP, instead of offering any sort of counter-play options (a stam Purge, a milder nerf, ANYTHING). And as of now, mitigation and heals are mostly untouched. This patch is the death of 1v1 right now.
And ironically, the most overtuned *** in this patch hasn't even been addressed. Onslaught should've been the first item on the list for an adjustment and it isn't even mentioned. The Stamplar Onslaught-Jabs-POTL combo is completely intact. I can't honestly take their vision of balance seriously.
I just don't get it. These forums were aflame over DoTs being too powerful. Now it's up in arms because they nerfed them.
1v1 was never much of thing anyway. It's nearly irrelevant outside of Duels. So PvP should not be balanced around that. At worse - you'll simply draw your friends more when you duel them. Where is the harm in that? I really can't think of any.
Mitigation and heals needed to be left untouched because defensive options are not out of control on this game. You can't stack defense with other players like you can offense. Try building a defensive character capable of living through a coordinated attack in battlegrounds then get back with me. You'll find it's not easy, and certainly no where close to approaching overpowered.
Now maybe you're right in respect to Onslaught. But I've never really understood what all the fuss was over when it came to jabs. That ability just isn't that powerful in my experience. It may be a serious threat to glass cannons is all I can guess. But Templars generally are just exaggerated way too much on this forum. That or they just shine in CP PvP or something (which I don't participate in). But in none CP PvP they just aren't all that.
I don't need to try; my Stamden is already tanky as *** in high-MMR BGs while still reaching 4.8k WD. I mean if you're talking about premades vs. premades, defense is absolutely still the meta. Premade matches are ALWAYS low-kill games, hell, at high-MMR most PUG matches are relatively low kill games.
And 1v1 shouldn't be the focal point of all PvP balance but Jesus, it should at least be POSSIBLE. I've been able to elude zergs in IC and I'm only a 590 CP console transfer; 810 CP players with PvP builds are tanking uncanny amounts of damage while still being able to dole out heavy burst. Imagine how PvP is going to feel against that kind of mitigation when huge swaths of skills are doing 50%+ less damage.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.
Dude, who is getting melted that fast besides inexperienced players and gank/glass cannon builds that go out of position?
I see high-CP players of damn near every class and build type that have incredible damage mitigation while still being lethal. High-MMR Deathmatches already go to the time limit in basically every game, usually with scores still in the 200s. Can you even imagine CP PvP? 1v1 fights are literally not going to be possible to finish on an update like this.
I was referring to PvE mostly when I said everything just gets melted.
PvP has improved significantly since the last update when they attached cast times etc. Though a good premade can still melt people I promise you.
100% agreed. And premades coordinating definitely can wreck, but if this patch goes live that will be the only viable option. Individual effect on the game is going to be utterly squashed.
Why can we not get meaningful overland content that's challenging? Or new difficulties/challenges on the existing content? This is just insane. And it's going to effect new players and casual players the worst because they're likely playing solo and can't possibly dedicate the time to keep up with these meta shifts. I play quite a lot as it is and I can't justify it.
I doubt new players or casuals care much about meta shifts Sorbin.
Which nerfs have you so upset? It would probably help if I knew specifically which one you were referring to.
I mean, they've essentially just nuked damage and sustain across the board. Dizzy has more counter-play than almost any skill in the game and people have been used to that for literally 5 years now, but this will make it utterly obsolete. Dots are going right back into the dustbin of ESO history in PvP, instead of offering any sort of counter-play options (a stam Purge, a milder nerf, ANYTHING). And as of now, mitigation and heals are mostly untouched. This patch is the death of 1v1 right now.
And ironically, the most overtuned *** in this patch hasn't even been addressed. Onslaught should've been the first item on the list for an adjustment and it isn't even mentioned. The Stamplar Onslaught-Jabs-POTL combo is completely intact. I can't honestly take their vision of balance seriously.
I just don't get it. These forums were aflame over DoTs being too powerful. Now it's up in arms because they nerfed them.
1v1 was never much of thing anyway. It's nearly irrelevant outside of Duels. So PvP should not be balanced around that. At worse - you'll simply draw your friends more when you duel them. Where is the harm in that? I really can't think of any.
Mitigation and heals needed to be left untouched because defensive options are not out of control on this game. You can't stack defense with other players like you can offense. Try building a defensive character capable of living through a coordinated attack in battlegrounds then get back with me. You'll find it's not easy, and certainly no where close to approaching overpowered.
Now maybe you're right in respect to Onslaught. But I've never really understood what all the fuss was over when it came to jabs. That ability just isn't that powerful in my experience. It may be a serious threat to glass cannons is all I can guess. But Templars generally are just exaggerated way too much on this forum. That or they just shine in CP PvP or something (which I don't participate in). But in none CP PvP they just aren't all that.
I don't need to try; my Stamden is already tanky as *** in high-MMR BGs while still reaching 4.8k WD. I mean if you're talking about premades vs. premades, defense is absolutely still the meta. Premade matches are ALWAYS low-kill games, hell, at high-MMR most PUG matches are relatively low kill games.
And 1v1 shouldn't be the focal point of all PvP balance but Jesus, it should at least be POSSIBLE. I've been able to elude zergs in IC and I'm only a 590 CP console transfer; 810 CP players with PvP builds are tanking uncanny amounts of damage while still being able to dole out heavy burst. Imagine how PvP is going to feel against that kind of mitigation when huge swaths of skills are doing 50%+ less damage.
That hasn't been remotely my experience.
I watch Premades obliterate pug opponents in seconds (if even that) all the time. Defense isn't even a consideration for them. They just use overwhelming and coordinated offenses to obliterate people. And I can't say anything bad about them either. Because they even melt my most defensive character - and he is usually quite difficult to kill. So we are just operating from way different perspectives here. So if you're living against coordinated attacks against a premade it's not because of your mitigation I can promise you. It's because you have a highly skilled team backing you up.
And 1v1 will still be possible. PvP on this game has always suffered due to the fact you simply just died way too fast. And while this problem was significantly helped in the last update: I certainly won't oppose further measures to make it even better. The more time people spend fighting instead of dying in PvP the better.
Anyway, I gotta get off here. ^^Edited by Jeremy on September 17, 2019 3:48AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »
The game has done nothing but improve under their direction. So I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you about that.0 -
MojaveHeld✭✭✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »
The game has done nothing but improve under their direction. So I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you about that.
If by "improve" you actually mean "massively deteriorate," then yes. If not, you are off your rocker big time. Throwing gigantic nerfs around to skills you just barely buffed, that leave them worse off than before you touched anything, cannot be considered anything other than inept. You can't defend that, and any attempts to just seriously erode your own credibility.15 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭Let me start out by saying that I love ESO. I love the combat. I love the classes. I love the endless drive to tweak builds to be just a bit stronger. I love the PvP and the Alliance War.
But what I absolutely dread, and what I simply cannot continue to abide as someone with a life outside this game, is this constant axe looming over the head of every build I endeavor to make.
Don't get me wrong. I know some *** needs to be nerfed. Onslaught's buff could be cut in half. Living Dark could heal a bit less. Some of the dots could use maybe a 5% damage nerf, and you know what? Go ahead and nerf Dizzy 5%, too.
But these patch notes look like the work of someone with a serious case of Bipolar Disorder. 50-63% nerfs to a litany of skills is just an absolutely asinine way to balance the game. Entire skills are going to be rendered useless with this. Entire builds will be made utterly obsolete. And with the way damage skills are looking, I can't honestly see people fighting 1v1 at all anymore in PvP. People are going to build to be as tanky as possible and never run alone.
ZOS, I can't do this *** anymore. I play this game a lot, but I do not and cannot play enough to possibly stomach these kinds of radical changes. I can't play enough to be okay with knowing that every single aspect of my build could possibly be utterly ruined. I can't enjoy any particular playstyle because you may simply remove it from the game entirely in 3 months time. And this community can never even begin to adapt to a meta when you shift as hard away from it as possible in the blink of an eye.
There are a lot of games out there competing for my time right now, and that time gets more limited every year. I'd like to keep playing this one. But I can't keep up with this ***, and I highly doubt I'm alone on that.
The damage on this game has been out of control for a long time. I'm not sure what nerfs you are referring to specifically. But to be honest anything that reduces damage (both in PvE and PvP) I'm going to support. Everything just melts these days. It's ridiculous and holds back this game's excellent combat system.
Dude, who is getting melted that fast besides inexperienced players and gank/glass cannon builds that go out of position?
I see high-CP players of damn near every class and build type that have incredible damage mitigation while still being lethal. High-MMR Deathmatches already go to the time limit in basically every game, usually with scores still in the 200s. Can you even imagine CP PvP? 1v1 fights are literally not going to be possible to finish on an update like this.
I was referring to PvE mostly when I said everything just gets melted.
PvP has improved significantly since the last update when they attached cast times etc. Though a good premade can still melt people I promise you.
100% agreed. And premades coordinating definitely can wreck, but if this patch goes live that will be the only viable option. Individual effect on the game is going to be utterly squashed.
Why can we not get meaningful overland content that's challenging? Or new difficulties/challenges on the existing content? This is just insane. And it's going to effect new players and casual players the worst because they're likely playing solo and can't possibly dedicate the time to keep up with these meta shifts. I play quite a lot as it is and I can't justify it.
I doubt new players or casuals care much about meta shifts Sorbin.
Which nerfs have you so upset? It would probably help if I knew specifically which one you were referring to.
I mean, they've essentially just nuked damage and sustain across the board. Dizzy has more counter-play than almost any skill in the game and people have been used to that for literally 5 years now, but this will make it utterly obsolete. Dots are going right back into the dustbin of ESO history in PvP, instead of offering any sort of counter-play options (a stam Purge, a milder nerf, ANYTHING). And as of now, mitigation and heals are mostly untouched. This patch is the death of 1v1 right now.
And ironically, the most overtuned *** in this patch hasn't even been addressed. Onslaught should've been the first item on the list for an adjustment and it isn't even mentioned. The Stamplar Onslaught-Jabs-POTL combo is completely intact. I can't honestly take their vision of balance seriously.
I just don't get it. These forums were aflame over DoTs being too powerful. Now it's up in arms because they nerfed them.
1v1 was never much of thing anyway. It's nearly irrelevant outside of Duels. So PvP should not be balanced around that. At worse - you'll simply draw your friends more when you duel them. Where is the harm in that? I really can't think of any.
Mitigation and heals needed to be left untouched because defensive options are not out of control on this game. You can't stack defense with other players like you can offense. Try building a defensive character capable of living through a coordinated attack in battlegrounds then get back with me. You'll find it's not easy, and certainly no where close to approaching overpowered.
Now maybe you're right in respect to Onslaught. But I've never really understood what all the fuss was over when it came to jabs. That ability just isn't that powerful in my experience. It may be a serious threat to glass cannons is all I can guess. But Templars generally are just exaggerated way too much on this forum. That or they just shine in CP PvP or something (which I don't participate in). But in none CP PvP they just aren't all that.
I don't need to try; my Stamden is already tanky as *** in high-MMR BGs while still reaching 4.8k WD. I mean if you're talking about premades vs. premades, defense is absolutely still the meta. Premade matches are ALWAYS low-kill games, hell, at high-MMR most PUG matches are relatively low kill games.
And 1v1 shouldn't be the focal point of all PvP balance but Jesus, it should at least be POSSIBLE. I've been able to elude zergs in IC and I'm only a 590 CP console transfer; 810 CP players with PvP builds are tanking uncanny amounts of damage while still being able to dole out heavy burst. Imagine how PvP is going to feel against that kind of mitigation when huge swaths of skills are doing 50%+ less damage.
That hasn't been remotely my experience.
I watch Premades obliterate pug opponents in seconds (if even that) all the time. Defense isn't even a consideration for them. They just use overwhelming and coordinated offenses to obliterate people. And I can't say anything bad about them either. Because they even melt my most defensive character - and he is usually quite difficult to kill. So we are just operating from way different perspectives here. So if you're living against coordinated attacks against a premade it's not because of your mitigation I can promise you. It's because you have a highly skilled team backing you up.
And 1v1 will still be possible. PvP on this game has always suffered due to the fact you simply just died way too fast. And while this problem was significantly helped in the last update: I certainly won't oppose further measures to make it even better. The more time people spend fighting instead of dying in PvP the better.
Anyway, I gotta get off here. ^^
Again, I ask you: who is dying this fast supposedly?
I have seen CP 810 players of almost every build rock absolutely incredible mitigation by themselves. The overwhelming majority of gankers aren't a threat to anyone slotting one or two defensive sets and self-heals. I mean, I have literally seen light and medium armor builds in IC absolutely facetank groups of players and still have incredible damage capability. If it's a group of high-level players coordinating to kill quickly... I mean, don't they kind of deserve that kill? Isn't that how it's supposed to work? And when those same premades run into another coordinated group, what happens? A long, massive stand-off.
You're also not addressing high-MMR BGs featuring multiple premades/coordinated groups. Games like this almost never break 300 points in a Deathmatch. How is that supposed to play out in this patch?
Again, the only people I see dying that fast are glass cannons and inexperienced players.1 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »
The game has done nothing but improve under their direction. So I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you about that.
And which direction is that? The last live patch and the current PTS patch are literally opposite directions. A month's worth of nonsense that made us respec and re-gear for nothing, brought on by a team that has no plan and no direction that's just throwing changes out there to see what happens.12 -
CipherNine✭✭✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »
The game has done nothing but improve under their direction. So I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you about that.
lol clueless. real shocker there as you usually are. ZOS themselves have stated that a very low percentage of the player base is completing vet content. So hey lets just nerf EVERYTHING. Yeah that will fix it. I guess they dont want players completing their content they come out with. That is such a great vision for the game.
They wanted to get rid of the tank meta in PvP. Now they nerf DPS to oblivion. So welcome back the tank meta.
Sure this combat team sure has a real good vision for the game and has done nothing but improve it. SURE!. just how delusional can you be?Edited by CipherNine on September 17, 2019 1:08PMPC-NA
Khajiit Templar - Healer
Argonian Necromancer - Healer
Breton Warden - Healer
Nord Necromancer - Tank
Argonian Templar - Tank
Nord Warden - Tank16 -
valeriiya✭✭✭✭✭
✭For me it's exhausting trying to keep up with the changes, major changes that happen more and more frequently.10 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO is a little bit like Scottish weather. Don’t like the meta? Wait five minutes and it will change.
I’m really glad I didn’t make any sweeping changes to any of my builds to deal with the OP Templar/DOT meta during Scalebreaker. I’m also glad I trusted my gut and opted to sit Scalebreaker out. I’ll try the next patch when it launches on console, but will be darn sure not to make any significant changes in anticipation of the next swing of the balance pendulum. 1 -
Mannix1958✭✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »
The game has done nothing but improve under their direction. So I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you about that.
If you're correct then the game's population should stay steady or even improve. Will be interesting to see if that's the case in various endgame aspects...0
This discussion has been closed.