PTS Patch Note Livestream - 9/16 @ 4pm EDT

gepe87

Seems balanced, although Templar have too many overloaded abilities.
DK could have a usable class purge effect skill.

I'm ok with MagSorc (which i main) changes.

Varana

Moloch1514 wrote: »

So they skipped all the parts about the nerfs? Did they ever come back to that, or just pat themselves on the back for the few non-nerf changes?

They conveniently quickly passed over them with "here's another DoT change" and assumed no-one would notice.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Varana wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

So they skipped all the parts about the nerfs? Did they ever come back to that, or just pat themselves on the back for the few non-nerf changes?

They conveniently quickly passed over them with "here's another DoT change" and assumed no-one would notice.

If it fell under a larger change we had already discussed, then yes, we didn't want to spend too much time on it since we had a lot to get through in a limited amount of time.

Varana

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

So they skipped all the parts about the nerfs? Did they ever come back to that, or just pat themselves on the back for the few non-nerf changes?

They conveniently quickly passed over them with "here's another DoT change" and assumed no-one would notice.

If it fell under a larger change we had already discussed, then yes, we didn't want to spend too much time on it since we had a lot to get through in a limited amount of time.

But you had not discussed that earlier.
What you* had mentioned were skills buffed in the last update being cut down.
What you did not discuss were skills that did not fall under this category and were still nerfed.
I understand that thought of having a ratio between single-target and AoE skills. What you never spoke about is why all of them were cut down. There are skills that were nerfed in Scalebreaker, and nerfed again in Dragonhold.

To be honest, I was quite disappointed with how that was handled. I mean, you planned that stream. Shouldn't you be able to plan what you'll be talking about, and address the general issues, instead of poetry-slamming** around the patch notes?

* "You", as in ZOS, i.e. more specifically Brian Wheeler and Gilliam.
** Sorry.

Flaminir

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

So they skipped all the parts about the nerfs? Did they ever come back to that, or just pat themselves on the back for the few non-nerf changes?

They conveniently quickly passed over them with "here's another DoT change" and assumed no-one would notice.

If it fell under a larger change we had already discussed, then yes, we didn't want to spend too much time on it since we had a lot to get through in a limited amount of time.

To be honest Gina, I do think that commentary about the overall nerfs should have been front & centre when doing this show. It was the elephant in the room & all we got was a single mumbled & vague comment from Gill about 'Its fine... You can still complete content'.

If you're going to make these kind of big sweeping changes then address it head on... Explain why, and the future goals/direction so we can understand. Otherwise it just generates the animosity you see from people on the forums/discord now, because it was brushed under the carpet on the stream, which is kind of counterintuitive when it was supposed to explain the notes.

Dagoth_Rac

Did they really defend the damage nerfs by saying Gilliam can still clear dungeons? That is like the NBA moving the 3-point line to midcourt and defending it by saying Steph Curry can still hit 3-pointers.

Elsonso

Flaminir wrote: »

If you're going to make these kind of big sweeping changes then address it head on... Explain why, and the future goals/direction so we can understand. Otherwise it just generates the animosity you see from people on the forums/discord now, because it was brushed under the carpet on the stream, which is kind of counterintuitive when it was supposed to explain the notes.

I agree. As much fun as it is to watch the forum panic, people rage quit, and generally act with distress, ZOS should do better trying to minimize such things. If they can't simply stop doing stuff they know is going to *** people off, at least they should calmly walk through it in detail and explain it rationally. That won't solve the problem, there will always be those who hurl rotten fruit any chance they can get, but it would certainly let others rest more easy.

Varana

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

That is like the NBA moving the 3-point line to midcourt and defending it by saying Steph Curry can still hit 3-pointers.

To be honest, I have absolutely no idea what any of that means.

iris56

lordrichter wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

If you're going to make these kind of big sweeping changes then address it head on... Explain why, and the future goals/direction so we can understand. Otherwise it just generates the animosity you see from people on the forums/discord now, because it was brushed under the carpet on the stream, which is kind of counterintuitive when it was supposed to explain the notes.

I agree. As much fun as it is to watch the forum panic, people rage quit, and generally act with distress, ZOS should do better trying to minimize such things. If they can't simply stop doing stuff they know is going to *** people off, at least they should calmly walk through it in detail and explain it rationally. That won't solve the problem, there will always be those who hurl rotten fruit any chance they can get, but it would certainly let others rest more easy.

I agree with this so much. I was really excited because I thought thats what the stream would be. I really wanted to understand what the overall plan and timeline for these huge game breaking changes is. I want to see that ZOS hears our complaints and there's a logic behind responses. I want to know that the lead combat designer is actually taking PVE into account too, not just PVP. Sure you can clear overland and normal dungeons, but hard content? It keeps getting more out of reach for lots of folks - even when they're actively trying to do it. I love playing this game and I want to be able to invest my time and money for a sense of progression. These massive swings in meta are wearing me and a lot of the player base out. Show us the plan, timeline and end goals for balancing so we don't just give up.

January1171

Varana wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

So they skipped all the parts about the nerfs? Did they ever come back to that, or just pat themselves on the back for the few non-nerf changes?

They conveniently quickly passed over them with "here's another DoT change" and assumed no-one would notice.

If it fell under a larger change we had already discussed, then yes, we didn't want to spend too much time on it since we had a lot to get through in a limited amount of time.

But you had not discussed that earlier.
What you* had mentioned were skills buffed in the last update being cut down.
What you did not discuss were skills that did not fall under this category and were still nerfed.
I understand that thought of having a ratio between single-target and AoE skills. What you never spoke about is why all of them were cut down. There are skills that were nerfed in Scalebreaker, and nerfed again in Dragonhold.

To be honest, I was quite disappointed with how that was handled. I mean, you planned that stream. Shouldn't you be able to plan what you'll be talking about, and address the general issues, instead of poetry-slamming** around the patch notes?

* "You", as in ZOS, i.e. more specifically Brian Wheeler and Gilliam.
** Sorry.

All of this.
My biggest question is still why damage was so drastically decreased, while costs increase. I can understand reducing one aspect if another aspect is improved. The damage and cost changes just feels like it makes it unnecessarily difficult for players, especially such drastic reductions.

I understand the goal is to reduce power creep and enforce class identity. But this isn't going to touch the people getting 100k parses. It'll just hurt the casual/semi-casual players that don't have the time to constantly practice.

I love this game. But between performance issues, increasing crown store focus, and such frequent and dramatic combat changes, it's getting harder and harder to defend.

JusticeSouldier

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

So they skipped all the parts about the nerfs? Did they ever come back to that, or just pat themselves on the back for the few non-nerf changes?

They conveniently quickly passed over them with "here's another DoT change" and assumed no-one would notice.

If it fell under a larger change we had already discussed, then yes, we didn't want to spend too much time on it since we had a lot to get through in a limited amount of time.

Thing that worry me the most is, u do too big (Very Huge) steps before and now in a things which require hign accuracy.
Like in scalebreaker lets make 2 skills a powerfull dots to the game for everyone.
Than, oh, everyone complaining because of this and loose of classes identity, Let's down than all dots damage for 60%.
(60%??? who's idea is such numbers? are we rabbits for experiments in laboratory?).
We all understand that it makes dots not balanced but cut them down to the floor.

And u do this extremly rarely.
It's too big period to suffer from your old mistakes and wait for fixing them few month or years (best example is Premade vs randoms queue for Battlegrounds- more than 3 years still not separated - wtf?)...

Why balance changes in general so close tied to new content?

I completly agree wih idea to not be able have few same type dots at the same target in PvP area...like no 2 entropia from 2 players. Good way, quality of life change.
But making them miserable with a values in addition ... why?

Please, do balance changes separately from new content.
And do them with a "small (or better to say Precise) steps" politics...
it's possible, it's a way how things really become better

ThornJagger

I haven't gotten the new gear to test, have I missed something...besides the gear?

Fischblut

Did they really defend the damage nerfs by saying Gilliam can still clear dungeons?

Oh my...

If all nerfs/buffs were done based on my opinion instead, every ability would be powerful and nothing would be nerfed :'(

I really want to watch group of developers (those who are in charge of nerfs) clear the difficult content on live - after another horrible update hits it.

JumpmanLane

Fischblut wrote: »

Did they really defend the damage nerfs by saying Gilliam can still clear dungeons?

Oh my...

If all nerfs/buffs were done based on my opinion instead, every ability would be powerful and nothing would be nerfed :'(

I really want to watch group of developers (those who are in charge of nerfs) clear the difficult content on live - after another horrible update hits it.

I want to catch some of these devs in Cyro SLIPPING! Come on @Gilliamtherogue dust that crapblade off lol. See if you can catch a DC carry!

Banana

Gilliam, you need a new calculator. Whatever you use. Its got issues.

Beardimus

Is this available to listen to still? Any links?

Keen to understand the chaos!

Elsonso

Beardimus wrote: »

Is this available to listen to still? Any links?

Keen to understand the chaos!

If you want the drama, better to read the descriptions than watch the video.

Holmarion19

Beardimus wrote: »

Is this available to listen to still? Any links?

Keen to understand the chaos!

https://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/videos

Nolic1

Beardimus wrote: »

Is this available to listen to still? Any links?

Keen to understand the chaos!

https://youtu.be/Yb9H1kwF25w

ATreeGnome

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

So they skipped all the parts about the nerfs? Did they ever come back to that, or just pat themselves on the back for the few non-nerf changes?

They conveniently quickly passed over them with "here's another DoT change" and assumed no-one would notice.

If it fell under a larger change we had already discussed, then yes, we didn't want to spend too much time on it since we had a lot to get through in a limited amount of time.

I understand that the combat team wanted to focus on the cool, new class identity focused changes and I REALLY like those changes. However, it felt like the DOT changes were glossed over without explanation as to how and why they thought it was appropriate to nerf pretty much every single target DOT by 50% or more. Yes, DOTs are over performing on live, but from the perspective of a player I can't see how it's possible to come to the conclusion DOTs are doing twice as much damage as they should. I'm trying really hard to not jump the gun and be upset but I can't see a reason for such a big change and the parses I'm seeing from the PTS are only making it harder.

When the player base asks for more communication about changes these are the exact kind of change that we're talking about. We feel like we're being left out in the dark on changes that will completely reshape the way combat is approached.

Austinseph1

If you take away the dot changes everything went so well and made sense... Until the massive sweeping damage reverts that go further than how the original standards were. Make it 20% reduction and remove the cost increase, that is balance. The current changes have a wide effect of making players feel like they are backstepping and it doesn't feel great. How a player feels about the game very well decides if they play or not. If they feel like they get weaker every patch it demotivates people.

Beardimus

I've not looked at the PvE side, doesn't sound great but my PvP setup is going to need to go back to what it was before scalebreaker, kinda weird. As I'm still adjusting lol - but prefer it that way so its not a bad thing.