PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Wardens

Tivnael

Range of arctic Blast is too low!
And its too expensive to cast it permanently, so longer duration would be good, as it should not be too cheap for its burst heal

ESO_Nightingale

I've done a rework list using previous changes as a sort of template for what i think should happen to the class.

A lot of what is in here is the removal of "raw damage" passive and passive slot effects for inbuilt synergy on the class with it's damage skill, i've tried to explain them in the way that the Patch Notes are delivered. Some ideas are a bit unrefined such as on the new expansive frost cloak and some things may be clearly imbalanced but I did my best given limited feedback.

What i wanted to achieve with this was the creation of 2-3 playstyles of warden. Single target warden using mainly animal companions skills and the fire staff, AoE warden using a shock staff. Essentially what a lot of people are running for 1vX builds, and Frost warden using winter's embrace and the frost staff. I've got a few example bars listed down the bottom of my google doc to give you an idea.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fWoOX0S4yrR_KFZcjBAvHvR2K6T__6LrIGiaERV8NQA/edit?usp=sharing

I really think the best thing they could do right now is just take what i've done with dive and just use that word for word as it will eliminate most of dives current problems and everything else would come over the course of a year or 3 patches. but that's just wishful thinking. i mainly just like suggestions.

let me know what you guys think.

reasons for why i removed a large portion of the raw damage bonuses are that they are a bandaid to patch up our class's poor design, with this rework roadmap thingy I've done my best to combat the design and make the skills come out on top. as a result i have removed a lot of the raw damage bonuses in favour of other more unique effects. the skills may be underpowered as a result of the changes, but i think i've done a decent job at least.

fierackas

While I have 4 wardens inc a tank, healer and magden, my main is a bow/bow stamden and I see nothing particularly helpful to him there I'm afraid. I really hate being forced to look to non-class ultimates and would love to maintain class identity but the double barred bear really isn't great at the moment.

LeHarrt91

fierackas wrote: »

While I have 4 wardens inc a tank, healer and magden, my main is a bow/bow stamden and I see nothing particularly helpful to him there I'm afraid. I really hate being forced to look to non-class ultimates and would love to maintain class identity but the double barred bear really isn't great at the moment.

For PvP no the bear isnt good, but you should probably use Ballista on Bow/Bow in PvP anyway. In PvE its bear or nothing.

Canned_Apples

I value class identity so much that I actually use the bear in most pvp scenarios- except for the "re-imagined" Istirus Outpost.
That stage is the WORST. Bomb groups and dot spamming is king. I don't know, and DON'T want, what @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam were smoking when they thought of that. THE WORST.

Arctic Wind is worse now than when it as an "awkward" stun. The duration is too low and hitting a target, outside or pve trash mobs, three times in one cast is next to impossible.
They should just make it function similar to hurricane- without resolve/ward.

Lughlongarm

Something to consider:
If your build has around 30k hp in PvP(with toughness), Gripping Shards(the utility morph that immob) will do a competitive damage to 'Elemental Blockade' and cost 33% less.

juhislihis19

I don't want to be a debbie downer but isn't the new Netch extremely overloaded? It was a great skill to begin with, but now it purges as well? And not only once but every 5 seconds?

Stamina morph:

Bull Netch (morph):
These abilities now remove 1 negative effect from you every 5 seconds.
This morph reinstates the Stamina restore functionality.
Reduced the final duration to 25 seconds, down from 27 seconds
Also Major Brutality, and it's free.


So for a free cast skill you get Brutality/Sorcery, restore stamina/magicka, passive purge every 5 seconds (5 purges) and from passives: minor heal when recast, 2% damage and 12% recovery when slotted.

I mean I use Stamden, it's my second most used character and it has never been in a bad spot. I would've understood the purge addition when DoTs were a thing but they are heavily nerfed so this passive purge seems too excessive. Am I missing something here?

ESO_Nightingale

juhislihis19 wrote: »

I don't want to be a debbie downer but isn't the new Netch extremely overloaded? It was a great skill to begin with, but now it purges as well? And not only once but every 5 seconds?

Stamina morph:

Bull Netch (morph):
These abilities now remove 1 negative effect from you every 5 seconds.
This morph reinstates the Stamina restore functionality.
Reduced the final duration to 25 seconds, down from 27 seconds
Also Major Brutality, and it's free.


So for a free cast skill you get Brutality/Sorcery, restore stamina/magicka, passive purge every 5 seconds (5 purges) and from passives: minor heal when recast, 2% damage and 12% recovery when slotted.

I mean I use Stamden, it's my second most used character and it has never been in a bad spot. I would've understood the purge addition when DoTs were a thing but they are heavily nerfed so this passive purge seems too excessive. Am I missing something here?

i didn't like this buff either. i think stamden's bull netch could have used a unique effect, but i wouldn't have buffed the purge and given it to both. magden lost a little more of it's uniqueness with this change, and a lot more of it's uniqueness with stamden getting flies too. not saying stamden shouldn't have flies, but magdens have been wanting a new damage skill for a long ass time.

vesselwiththepestle

I like the buff to the Netch very much.

I have both Stamden (in PVP) and Magden (currently PVE only) and I will make great use of the new netch.

Our dps isn't good in PVE and getting at least some utility will be very nice.

So yes, the ability on itself seems overloaded. But if you have a look at the class as a whole I think it suits perfectly fine.

That said, I think other classes should get purges, too. For DK they could put a purge on wings or armaments. For Sorcs they could put a purge on the Matriarch.

juhislihis19

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I like the buff to the Netch very much.

I have both Stamden (in PVP) and Magden (currently PVE only) and I will make great use of the new netch.

Our dps isn't good in PVE and getting at least some utility will be very nice.

So yes, the ability on itself seems overloaded. But if you have a look at the class as a whole I think it suits perfectly fine.

That said, I think other classes should get purges, too. For DK they could put a purge on wings or armaments. For Sorcs they could put a purge on the Matriarch.

Yes, I agree! Other classes should have purge as well. And they could increase the DoTs again when all classes have access to purge. Now it kind of makes DoTs irrelevant, because some classes can purge them and they are so weak.

Necro has a good purge, but there's also a passive that increases healing done when you have a negative effect on you. I think this is great in way one can choose which way to go, purge or free bar space + get the full benefit of the healing passive.

vesselwiththepestle

The main problem I like to add: Now that netch is really good we must be in fear that it will be over-nerfed soon...

ESO_Nightingale

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

The main problem I like to add: Now that netch is really good we must be in fear that it will be over-nerfed soon...

if they nerf anything, i hope it's the purge. i'd take it back down to just the one at cast. because as it is now, it can purge a stun from you which can be kinda unfair to people trying to stun you.

juhislihis19

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

The main problem I like to add: Now that netch is really good we must be in fear that it will be over-nerfed soon...

if they nerf anything, i hope it's the purge. i'd take it back down to just the one at cast. because as it is now, it can purge a stun from you which can be kinda unfair to people trying to stun you.

And it makes DoTs quite irrelevant, as they take 2s before the firs tick..

ESO_Nightingale

juhislihis19 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

The main problem I like to add: Now that netch is really good we must be in fear that it will be over-nerfed soon...

if they nerf anything, i hope it's the purge. i'd take it back down to just the one at cast. because as it is now, it can purge a stun from you which can be kinda unfair to people trying to stun you.

And it makes DoTs quite irrelevant, as they take 2s before the firs tick..

yeah i think the class should be fair and steered in the right direction. not overly strong. i don't agree with a lot of buffs we get, including this one. i think this skill is overstacked now. and because of that it could get us unneeded nerfs we really can't afford. i really dislike all the raw damage bonuses too. it's just too much. the power should be in the skills themselves, and we should have skills that synergise with eachother. not whatever mess is happening on the class. and we need one more damage option that works in our combo.

but first they really should fix Dive and Arctic Blast. that would be a great start. i already personally spoke to Rich Lambert about these 2 in particular.

MinarasLaure

I don't understand if this change was meant for PvP or pve.
Personally I find it a nerf for PvP, because now we'll have to wait 5 full seconds before purging one debuff.
5 seconds in PvP are long long loooong time.
I was very happy with how netch worked until now, cause it was a free spammable instant purge.

UrbanMonk

Canned_Apples wrote: »

I value class identity so much that I actually use the bear in most pvp scenarios- except for the "re-imagined" Istirus Outpost.
That stage is the WORST. Bomb groups and dot spamming is king. I don't know, and DON'T want, what @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam were smoking when they thought of that. THE WORST.

Arctic Wind is worse now than when it as an "awkward" stun. The duration is too low and hitting a target, outside or pve trash mobs, three times in one cast is next to impossible.
They should just make it function similar to hurricane- without resolve/ward.

Agree. Arctic blast though "AWKWARD" was the last of 2 range stun options available for Magden, and now that's gone too and worst is being replaced by a 6m AOE stun skill which is hard to keep track of and rarely you see and oen staying in that range for more than 2 sec .

28 meter to 6 meter? wtf...

Gl chasing streaking sorcs or Bow rolldodgers moving away from you..

For Sleet storm, removing 8% passive mag is across the board ~4% damage nerf even with 30 sec of extra mag. So stop saying it's a buff for 30 sec and you can get anything good out of it.

As far as brids are concerned, no one uses them because of the delay and using a Destro staff skill is better as it ignores 10% resistance.

ESO_Nightingale

MinarasLaure wrote: »

I don't understand if this change was meant for PvP or pve.
Personally I find it a nerf for PvP, because now we'll have to wait 5 full seconds before purging one debuff.
5 seconds in PvP are long long loooong time.
I was very happy with how netch worked until now, cause it was a free spammable instant purge.

It's a nerf for both i would say. mostly for magden. they got a really unreliable proc for off balance and a morph effect that relies on range. either based on the skill hitting(SCR) or because of the off balance(CD). As a trade off the skill got a 10% damage nerf and a cost increase of a few hundred magicka/stamina. the morph effect for cutting dive is very interesting though, even if you're forced to create distance to use a slow projectile that does 10% less damage than it did last patch.