PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Wardens

Starlock

I can't do PTS since I'm on console, but console players matter so here are some thoughts:

• The changes to betty netch are interesting and I like them overall. It's nice to be able to have the snare removal on my archer warden now because she really hates being snared.
• The off balance from dive will synergize really well with my warden since she only uses a bow, though I can see where some players will not see as much use out of it. The bleed is also an interesting change that I like.
• Growing swarm will be a really neat option to play with on my character, especially since she is really hurting for AoE damage right now. Will definitely be playing with this!
• Reverting arctic wind inspires me to consider doing my ice mage alchemist character idea again.

katorga

So the stamina swarm morph, is it considered an AOE on the primary target, ie reduced 25% by major evasion on the primary target?

jypcy

Agreed with most of what’s been posted already. It’s welcome to see an effort for more class identity and I’ve seen both minor vuln on swarm and aoe frost on arctic blast requested for a long time, so it’s nice to see those being implemented. But the changes overall simply don’t seem well thought out.

I doubt many mag players will bother to dump 75 cp into thaumaturge anymore for exploiter because of the dot nerfs, so there’s not a lot of benefit that magden get from the dive change. Couple that with the distance problems that others have pointed out and it winds up just being a nerf.

On the flipside, yes, I’m sure bow/bow stamdens are popular, but there are plenty of melee ones too who again likely won’t see any benefit from the off balance procs. At least stamden gets the bleed to slightly offset the flat damage nerf, although from what I’ve heard it’s not enough and certainly isn’t more “identity” (more like tedium).

My shining example of class identity has been dk ever since I started playing. I loved discovering the synergy that its spammable flame lash had with the rest of the class’ toolkits. Sure there’s some setup involved, and it’s based on the proc of a single morph, but you had this really cool (and powerful) move that you could unlock just by combining skills in the dragonknight skill trees. I’m not saying that every class needs to have special ability procs based off of buffs/debuffs in their toolkit, but that synergies (not the in game concept) between skills can help forge identity.

As noted above, as a magden, how do I benefit from setting a target off balance? Sure, I can heavy attack them to stun and gain resources (which might be the only semi-reliable way for wardens to stun players now... but I digress), but so can any other class. It’s a combo, but nothing about that combo makes me feel special for playing a warden. I can also just use an infused shock enchant and a lightning staff to get a pretty similar combo on any other class. I can’t think of anything in a warden’s class toolkit that synergizes with off balance such that I’m all that inclined to really want to use dive over any other decent spammable.

The story is less bleak for stamdens where they’ll likely have the exploiter cp passive regardless, and so off balance is a decent choice. I’d say the dw passive is a reason to want off balance too but can’t proc it in melee range lol. And either way, the synergies that I get from setting a target off balance have nothing to do with me being a warden.

Random, disjointed effects so that a skill “has something” aren’t identity.

TimeDazzler

Can something be done about wardens armor buff? The only thing unique about it is that you can give to your allies which is not so useful at least from a PvP perspective since everyone already is using their own source of major ward/major resolve. The minor protection is nice but falls flat when compared to other armor buffs that grant resolve/ward/some and usually two additional effects in the form of damage or a minor/major buff.

Templar: effect 1 grants 50% bonus to resists if within. effect 2 has built-in "bull-netch" giving 400 regen.
Dragonknight: effect 1 reflects damage. effect 2 grants either a DoT or a shield depending on morph.
Sorcerer: effect 1 deals damage. effect 2 grants major or minor expedition depending on morph.
Necromancer: effect 1 creates a corpse. effect 2 is either pulling in ranged enemies or reduced cost on other abilities.
Nightblade: unique in that it is a class passive so also saves on barslot which is better than having two additional effects.

Now warden: effect 1 grants resists to allies. effect 2 depends on morph minor protection on one or larger aoe from effect 1.

Clearly warden and necromancer have gotten the short end of the stick as creating a corpse or giving armor to allies aren't as strong as what the 4 base classes in the game have. I have a maxed necromancer and have some ideas for them on the necromancer feedback thread as this is the warden thread. So, I think wardens armor buff should no longer have the functionality of giving the buff to allies and have something new. Also, recent patches have made minor protection redundant with that buff being added to turn evil and ransack which all stamina classes can use.

If it were up to me I would remove the being able to armor buff allies and have a new effect. This effect has to be a way to apply chilled to enemies so most likely a damage reflect or a damaging aura of frost around you. The reason being is that the other winter embrace abilities (impaling shards, frozen gate, arctic wind) are not widely used. The only way wardens really apply chilled to people is through permafrost or northern storm which benefit from the 200% applied chance passives. Same thing with new permafrost is that it shouldn't apply chilled as it already had a high % to do that from the passive, but that is out of scope for this post.

Canned_Apples

Cutting Dive proc (off-balance) is impossible to execute in pvp.
Players close the gap too quickly and dodge the ability before it lands.
It was a nice idea, but poorly executed.
Range has to be decreased.
DoT damage is also really low...

xWarbrain

I mean.... I hate the change too, but landing Cutting Dive or Screaming Cliff Racer in PvP from 12+ meters away is definitely not impossible.... I might only be a lowly console player, but even I do it hundreds of times a night.

What I don't get is if you land it from far away, proc off balance but you're swinging a f'ing sword, how reliably can you gap close & heavy attack to stun? Crit Charge required? Dumb.

Take the range requirement out altogether and do something like "every 3rd time it hits set the enemy/player off balance".

Or scrap the whole friggin thing and go mess with someone else's class.

Canned_Apples

@xWarbrain
It's not as easy/possible during duels or bgs, because everyone is always in your face- especially in the horribly remodeled bg stages.
It might work for bow builds- but not so much for everyone else.

ESO_Nightingale

Cries wrote: »

Can something be done about wardens armor buff? The only thing unique about it is that you can give to your allies which is not so useful at least from a PvP perspective since everyone already is using their own source of major ward/major resolve. The minor protection is nice but falls flat when compared to other armor buffs that grant resolve/ward/some and usually two additional effects in the form of damage or a minor/major buff.

Templar: effect 1 grants 50% bonus to resists if within. effect 2 has built-in "bull-netch" giving 400 regen.
Dragonknight: effect 1 reflects damage. effect 2 grants either a DoT or a shield depending on morph.
Sorcerer: effect 1 deals damage. effect 2 grants major or minor expedition depending on morph.
Necromancer: effect 1 creates a corpse. effect 2 is either pulling in ranged enemies or reduced cost on other abilities.
Nightblade: unique in that it is a class passive so also saves on barslot which is better than having two additional effects.

Now warden: effect 1 grants resists to allies. effect 2 depends on morph minor protection on one or larger aoe from effect 1.

Clearly warden and necromancer have gotten the short end of the stick as creating a corpse or giving armor to allies aren't as strong as what the 4 base classes in the game have. I have a maxed necromancer and have some ideas for them on the necromancer feedback thread as this is the warden thread. So, I think wardens armor buff should no longer have the functionality of giving the buff to allies and have something new. Also, recent patches have made minor protection redundant with that buff being added to turn evil and ransack which all stamina classes can use.

If it were up to me I would remove the being able to armor buff allies and have a new effect. This effect has to be a way to apply chilled to enemies so most likely a damage reflect or a damaging aura of frost around you. The reason being is that the other winter embrace abilities (impaling shards, frozen gate, arctic wind) are not widely used. The only way wardens really apply chilled to people is through permafrost or northern storm which benefit from the 200% applied chance passives. Same thing with new permafrost is that it shouldn't apply chilled as it already had a high % to do that from the passive, but that is out of scope for this post.

I also believe something should happen to the armor buff to make it more unique. I believe that Fungal Growth, Lotus Flower, Falcon's Swiftness and Impaling Shards all have this same issue

FrancisCrawford

Luckylancer wrote: »

Netch change seems cute. 1 purge every 5 sec wont save anyones life for sure but the change is cute.

Assuming the Netch also still purges on cast. If it only purges on delay, it's too trivial to even be cute.

FrancisCrawford

Cries wrote: »

If it were up to me I would remove the being able to armor buff allies and have a new effect. This effect has to be a way to apply chilled to enemies so most likely a damage reflect or a damaging aura of frost around you. The reason being is that the other winter embrace abilities (impaling shards, frozen gate, arctic wind) are not widely used. The only way wardens really apply chilled to people is through permafrost or northern storm which benefit from the 200% applied chance passives. Same thing with new permafrost is that it shouldn't apply chilled as it already had a high % to do that from the passive, but that is out of scope for this post.

How about converting all damage you do to ice damage? And increase the ice damage buff in the passive in association with that.

FrancisCrawford

Upon review, the off-balance from Dive has to become rangeless (as opposed to long-range only AND also as opposed to short-range only). Most of the reasons have already been discussed, but I have one to add:

Healers will now have a chance to apply offbalance and vulnerability without Wall of Elements, charged lightning staffs and so on. So that's actually a use case for long-range magicka Dive off-balance.

Ancalag

I'm a PvE end-game Tank, so I will only speak about what I know.

With the new adds on Netch and Swarm, and the nerf of the DK Fiery Breath, Warden Tank will be a pretty good option in the new meta.

I will be happy to play something else than DK !

Canned_Apples

@FrancisCrawford
I am always right!

serious time:
I either totally missed this or they forgot to include it in the original patch notes:
Growing Swarm (morph): This morph has been redesigned into a Stamina-based ability that deals Bleed Damage. The Swarm no longer spreads to nearby enemies upon completion, but instead deals damage to enemies in an area around the initial target. This damage is roughly 25% of the initial target’s coefficient.

Shame steam is offline..

StrandedMonkey

for my stamden pvpers out there
what if shalks had the ability to CC if the person is set off balance

Canned_Apples

@StrandedMonkey
Magicka Shalks had a stun... If they add a stun when "off-balanced" to Shalks then they'd have to do the same for D-Swing

SidraWillowsky

Literal footage of Dive:

BrokenGameMechanics

The OP was responding how bad Magden (again) were literally one of the top 1 or 2 classes in nerfs despite the fact that there is near universal acknowledgement by the community that Magden the weakest class in the game, by a wide margin, and have been so since the class was released.

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

SCR sets off balance and there is a CP passive that invoices damage against off balance enemies by 10%

10s of Minor Vulnerability which affects all skills. and a Stam morph DoT.

Netch cleanse we will have to see if we can still spam it to remove an effects. otherwise this is a decent change.

But everyone lost a lot and had cost increases.

For SCR the damage was reduced 10%, the cost increased. The Off Balance Passive is basically unreachable for Magdens and is something that ZOS's combat team is fully aware. All of the CP abilities in that Tree are stamina related (besides Thaum). For a Magden to activate that passive they would need to put 75 pts into Thaum. But ZOS anticipated this and by super nerfing the Magdens DOTS as well.

Assume your SCR was 10,000 before. Well it is now 9,000 with an increased cost to your spammable with the added bonus of a worthless effect (for a Magden). Also note that the cost increased is SUBSTANTIAL. They increased a SPAMMABLE cost by 36%. Granted a HA would get you a knockdown, but from Magden DPS perspective it is flat useless. So lets just call it for what it is: a straight 10% damage nerf at a 36% cost increase (for a spammable no less) all for an absolutely USELESS effect. It is not just a nerf for Magdens; it is a Super Nerf.

For a Stamden using DW the Off Balance absolutely synergies with the DW passive. But is is like the Combat Team's thinking was as follows: "OK, so we added a useless Off Balance to Birds which gave us an excuse to get that big nerf to Magden's spammable. But OMG this might actually be a BUFF for Stamdens so lets add some fine print that you have to be 15m away. That way we ensure the Off Balance is useless for BOTH Magdens as well as Stamdens." Seriously it is like they worked extra hard to ENSURE that the Bird's OB effect was useless in pretty much all scenarios.

The 8% damage Minor Vulnerability is achieved by a losing a fairly effective morph for Magdens with a 50%!!! damage nerf to the skill. 50%!!! Growing Swarm was very effective in PVE for trash ads and most importantly for Set procing. For me Growing Swarm was THE skill for a Magden in 4-man dungeons as out single target DPS is so horrible (and now more horrible, see above). In addition, you could get solid uptime on Ice Heart etc. or other procing Sets from Growing spreading tic damage. Summary a pretty big double whammy on Magdens here. Why is the Magden left with a crappy single target thing where you either have to double cast it OR just treat is a RNG with a 50% probability, while the Stamden gets an single target + splash damage + bleed stacking? It is the ranged support/utlity Magdens who SHOULD get a splash + frost damage (Freezing Flies) stacking version, Stamdens the random single target. The Magden's magica morph needs to be something else besides this very other cast nonsense.

One of the very few decent things left for the Magden was the purge on the Netch. Remember the Magden, by careful design by ZOS, has ZERO, NADA, ZILCH class idiomatic defensive capabilities. It can't run, no stamina. Similarly , it can't dodgeroll or block. It can't streak. It doesn't have Templar like Eclipse to force an opponent to "back off". It can't spam powerful AOE snares and do little girl circles around a rock like Templars. It can only basically stand there. Literally just stand there. The purge was a modest little thing to allow you to purge off the Templar's slow, or seige AOE, a bleed etc. The 5 sec cooldown is a definite NERF for sure. In PVP it may very well be in the Mega-Nerf range.

I really, really, really don't want to call the 2-second reduction in Netty duration a BUFF (same resource gain in 2 secs less) as ZOS had been solid in consistently NOT giving a single BUFF in 3 YEARS to Magdens. I don't want ZOS to break their 3 years, 0 Buffs, Constant Nerfs record on something this small.

As mentioned the Magden had ZERO survival capabilities in its skill trees, no dodge, streak, run, snares, etc. One thing it could do was at least delay the inevitable by hitting an attacker with a ranged stun. A Magden is NOT a melee class. So losing our ranged, on demand stun is a pretty big nerf. I use the stun all the time on my Magden. Having the new morphs requiring 3 hits (3 secs) before the stun if just silly stupid when you look at the range as pretty much every melee skill has a range over 6 meters. So for a Magden to leverage their class stun as best I can envision it, ZOS's combat team is expecting the Magden to active the skill and (sigh) run around chasing opponents with the intent of positioning my Magen at LESS THEN melee distance to some DK or Templar for 3 secs. Meanwhile they can happily stand outside its range and pretty much hit me with every melee skill (DW Rend is AFAIK the only melee skill at less than 6 meters). This is a HUGE nerf. In effect, once again the Magden has NO hard CC skill available to it.

The Permafrost loss of stun - Nerf. I can't believe ZOS did it and LEFT the stun on DBS. What are they thinking? Stam classes get the Big Damage + Stun ulti. But Magden get a DOT ulti that any Stam char can laugh off with a Vigor. Effectively Permafrost is now a crappy version of Elemental Rage. Loss of Permafrost for a Magden is pretty big. I'm really trying to think what is ZOS thinking here. Best I can come up with is they are trying to turn Permafrost in a defensive or "escape" Ulti. You fire off a permafrost if you (a Magden) are trying to run away out of a situation. In summary, Permafrost was the best thing going for a Magen. Emphasis on the "was". HUGE NERF here for a Madgen.

Winter's Revenge was heavy nerfed last release. And SURPRISE in a release where AOE DOTS where supposed to be BUFFED, yep, the Magdens AOE was nerfed AGAIN. What ZOS has against Magdens I can't begin to wrap my head around. But with +3 years of all Nerfs and no Buffs has to be some kind of ZOS record.

LeHarrt91

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

The OP was responding how bad Magden (again) were literally one of the top 1 or 2 classes in nerfs despite the fact that there is near universal acknowledgement by the community that Magden the weakest class in the game, by a wide margin, and have been so since the class was released.

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

SCR sets off balance and there is a CP passive that invoices damage against off balance enemies by 10%

10s of Minor Vulnerability which affects all skills. and a Stam morph DoT.

Netch cleanse we will have to see if we can still spam it to remove an effects. otherwise this is a decent change.

But everyone lost a lot and had cost increases.

For SCR the damage was reduced 10%, the cost increased. The Off Balance Passive is basically unreachable for Magdens and is something that ZOS's combat team is fully aware. All of the CP abilities in that Tree are stamina related (besides Thaum). For a Magden to activate that passive they would need to put 75 pts into Thaum. But ZOS anticipated this and by super nerfing the Magdens DOTS as well.

Assume your SCR was 10,000 before. Well it is now 9,000 with an increased cost to your spammable with the added bonus of a worthless effect (for a Magden). Also note that the cost increased is SUBSTANTIAL. They increased a SPAMMABLE cost by 36%. Granted a HA would get you a knockdown, but from Magden DPS perspective it is flat useless. So lets just call it for what it is: a straight 10% damage nerf at a 36% cost increase (for a spammable no less) all for an absolutely USELESS effect. It is not just a nerf for Magdens; it is a Super Nerf. Seriously ZOS taking a Magden's spammable and nerfing it 10% at a 36% cost increase for an absolutely useless effect? What are you thinking here? 10% damage loss at a cost of 36% in resource for a completely USELESS Off Balance passive?!?!?! for what? a uselss Off Balance? <Sigh>

For a Stamden using DW the Off Balance absolutely synergies with the DW passive. But is is like the Combat Team's thinking was as follows: "OK, so we added a useless Off Balance to Birds which gave us an excuse to get that big nerf to Magden's spammable. But OMG this might actually be a BUFF for Stamdens so lets add some fine print that you have to be 15m away. That way we ensure the Off Balance is useless for BOTH Magdens as well as Stamdens." Seriously it is like they worked extra hard to ENSURE that the Bird's OB effect was useless in pretty much all scenarios.

The 8% damage Minor Vulnerability is achieved by a losing a fairly effective morph for Magdens with a 50%!!! damage nerf to the skill. 50%!!! Growing Swarm was very effective in PVE for trash ads and most importantly for Set procing. For me Growing Swarm was THE skill for a Magden in 4-man dungeons as out single target DPS is so horrible (and now more horrible, see above). In addition, you could get solid uptime on Ice Heart etc. or other procing Sets from Growing spreading tic damage. Summary a pretty big double whammy on Magdens here.

One of the very few decent things left for the Magden was the purge on the Netch. Remember the Magden, by careful design by ZOS, and ZERO, NADA, ZILCH defensive capabilities. It can't run, no stamina. Similarly , it can't dodgeroll or block. It can't streak. It doesn't have Templar like Eclipse to force an opponent to "back off". It can't spam powerful AOE snares and do little girl circles around a rock like Templars. It can only basically stand there. Literally just stand there. The purge was a modest little thing to allow you to purge off the Templar's slow, or seige AOE, a bleed etc. The 5 sec cooldown is a definite NERF for sure. In PVP it may very well be in the Mega-Nerf range.

I really, really, really don't want to call the 2-second reduction in Netty duration a nerf as ZOS had been solid in consistently NOT giving a single BUFF in 3 YEARS to Magdens. I don't want ZOS to break their 3 years, 0 Buffs, Constant Nerfs record on something this small.

As mentioned the Magden had ZERO survival capabilities in its skill trees, no dodge, streak, run, snares, etc. One thing it could do was at least delay the inevitable by hitting an attacker with a ranged stun. A Magden is NOT a melee class. So losing our ranged, on demand stun is a pretty big nerf. I use the stun all the time on my Magden. Having the new morphs requiring 3 hits (3 secs) before the stun if just silly stupid when you look at the range as pretty much every melee skill has a range over 6 meters. So for a Magden to leverage their class stun as best I can envision it, ZOS's combat team is expecting the Magden to active the skill and (sigh) run around chasing opponents with the intent of positioning my Magen at LESS THEN melee distance to some DK or Templar. This is a HUGE nerf. In effect, once again the Magden has NO hard CC skill available to it.

The Permafrost loss of stun - Nerf. I can't believe ZOS did it and LEFT the stun on DBS. What are they thinking? Stam classes get the Big Damage + Stun ulti. But Magden get a DOT ulti that any Stam char can laugh off with a Vigor. Effectively Permafrost is now a crappy version of Elemental Rage. Loss of Permafrost for a Magden is pretty big. I'm really trying to think what is ZOS thinking here. Best I can come up with is they are trying to turn Permafrost in a defensive or "escape" Ulti. You fire off a permafrost if you (a Magden) are trying to run away out of a situation. In summary, Permafrost was the best thing going for a Magen. Emphasis on the "was". HUGE NERF here for a Madgen.

Gripping Shards was heavy nerfed last release. And SURPRISE in a release where AOE DOTS where supposed to be BUFFED, yep, the Magdens AOE was nerfed AGAIN. What ZOS has against Magdens I can't begin to wrap my hear around. But with +3 years of all Nerfs and no Buffs has to be some kind of ZOS record.

Yes the CP Off Balance Passive takes 75 into Thaum, but unfortunately i wouldnt doubt zos to just say... the option is still here -_-

And the nerf to all DoT i think was too much, they have been "swinging the pendulum" to much as they say and again it shows.

In regards to the Netch duration nerf it was generally recast early anyway, i dont see this as a issue.

The change to Arctic missed the mark again. Yes we loved the AoE damage of the old blast (but we had stun on deep fissure back then). The Polar Wind morph should keep the AoE DoT, and the Arctic Blast morph should again become a single target ranged stun that has an added magicka scaling DoT.

But i do agree the skills do not synergise well with each other. a 6m stun (requires 3 hits), a 20m burst skill, a spammable that requires you to be at 15m to get max damage, one of our damage ultimates is 10m, and one of the best monster helms is 8m... are we ranged?... are we melee?
Sure the Ice tree is mainly for tanks so it makes sense for the skills to be closer range, and the dps tree skills are all about range but with other skills and sets outside of the wardens kit things dont quite match up.

And sadly Winters Revenge is so bad, we are better off using Mystic Orb. Last patch it received a cost increase and a damage nerf and again this patch.

BrokenGameMechanics

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Literal footage of Dive:

Sad but true. The Warden skill set was always a jumbled mess with little synergy. It is compounded by the fact that in operation everything feels so clunky, laborious, tedious and just slow. When they removed undodgable added GCD and slowed the birds down to molasses was the beginning of the end for Warden.

BrokenGameMechanics

xWarbrain wrote: »

I mean.... I hate the change too, but landing Cutting Dive or Screaming Cliff Racer in PvP from 12+ meters away is definitely not impossible.... I might only be a lowly console player, but even I do it hundreds of times a night.

I guess the OP was more along the lines of if you know you are charging a Magden with Birds you are going to pretty easily dodge the first bird and even if they take the hit, given the huge boost in movement and (even this release) the huge nerfing in snares there is no way you are going to get off a heavy attack off before they are within melee distance and unbreakable CC'd you with a stun or fear. A Magden rarely has enough stam to even do a single break free. Even simple positioning movement of your toon in a battle or a single block action will keep a Magden's stam below a break free cost.

On the flip side Stam always has Stam versions of what it needs to survive. i.e. A Stam toon is never routinely placed in a critical position by low magicka. For a Magden toon low stam pool places you in constant state of being super vulnerable as the class lacks any idiomatic survival mechanism while most other classes have several. Who knows why ZOS decided the class that way.

Lughlongarm

Love the changes, My Magicka warden feels complete for the first time.
Great work!!!

echo2omega

Nerf permafrost when?
The ultimate just completely over performs.

12 second duration
70% snare potency.
Chills all targets in the AOE each second.
AND
Major protection

That's 12 seconds of 30% damage reduction.

Bfish22090

i like the changes. well done devs

chrightt

Wardens are actually feeling pretty darn good for pvp right now on PTS. My only concern is stam cliff racer with its lower cost vs mag cliff racer is actually an incredibly potent spammable if all you’re looking for is straight up DPS spam. Directly spamming the skills gives more damage/cost by far than any other class spammable like necro’s skull (with comparable travel time). Bleed just stacks too many times it’s actually insane. Love the mag version of dice allowing for off balance making off balance more relevant and providing a stun with partial charged heavy. I actually like the direction this is going because it emphasizes an underutilized mechanic while adding more skill and timing required to get a hard CC off your opponent.

Since Netch is a free cast the ability is slightly too powerful imo, one debuff clear per 8 seconds sounds more in line especially because it gives back more resource in a shorter duration now. Really, other classes need some debuff removal as well.

Arctic wind feels great, not OP not weak, just about right for a skilled player to utilize.

Permafrost imho actually got stronger because it is super easy to get the extra 4s duration which gives 4 seconds (50% more) major protection and damage while the snare is buffed.

Swarm feels just about right.

Overall, wardens are definitely top tier next patch in pvp. My concern that doesn’t just apply to wardens is healing is quite potent compared with damage and wardens have a lot of sources of heals. It makes wardens and Templars powerhouses that are almost impossible to 1v1. Actually you can stalemate too easily on PTS duels at the moment. Dmg like dots should probably get scaled up a tiny bit while heals brought down a tiny bit. 10%~ increase in damage in the form of some underused skills getting buffed and 10% nerf to heals in general and you’ll have pvp sitting at a really good spot.

TheGreatBlackBear

My magden dps dropped from slightly more 97k on the trial dummy on live to around 73k on this pts. I am NOT a happy camper. I've gone back to the roto I used to use before DOTs had short bus strength. With the exception of winter's revenge being dropped for mystic orb. Also I can't sustain a full light attack rotation with perfected siroria and mother's sorrow on a high elf with a berserker enchant. I'll do more parses with Breton, absorb mag enchant and maybe PFG but that will probably drop my DPS even more. The changes to cliff racer in all honesty are worthless. And when will bloodthirsty affect the bear?

BrokenGameMechanics

echo2omega wrote: »

Nerf permafrost when?
The ultimate just completely over performs.

12 second duration
70% snare potency.
Chills all targets in the AOE each second.
AND
Major protection

That's 12 seconds of 30% damage reduction.

Really? Lets look at the trade here. Trade AOE 6 player stun for a snare (that is even further reduced with the additive/multiplicative change) and an extra 2 seconds of damage. If you believe this is a sizeable buff then we need to start pounding the stable for the same change for Dawn Breaker, ie. drop DB's stun and add a snare to it. I'm sure, like you, the DB community will embrace that wholeheartedly.

ESO_Nightingale

To Anyone who thinks that Permafrost's buff is fair or fine, it doesn't need the snare buff or the 100% chilled chance as the 70% snare was extremely oppressive and removed for a reason and the chilled chance completely undermines glacial presence and impaling shard's secondary effects while also guaranteeing even better mitigation. And the duration while fine on its own, makes this even worse. These changes are not even close to okay.

MLGProPlayer

.

Lughlongarm

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

chrightt wrote: »

Since Netch is a free cast the ability is slightly too powerful imo, one debuff clear per 8 seconds sounds more in line especially because it gives back more resource in a shorter duration now. Really, other classes need some debuff removal as well.

It used to purge on cast. The change to 5s is a nerf.

Really? First purge will occur 5 sec after casting? This is confirmed?

BrokenGameMechanics

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

[

They mentioned it in the live stream. They said to let them know what we prefer in feedback (they are fine with either condition: >12m or <12m).

<12m needs to happen. There are very few scenarios in PvE where you can position yourself at >12m. Shalks? Medium range. Wall of Elements? Medium range. Zaan? Medium range. Almost all abilities are designed for medium or short range use only.

This is just ridiculous if they in fact said that. All ZOS is doing is pitting the Warden Mag/Stam community to decide who to screw over.

Lets look at Dive from the Magdens perspective. We are getting a substantial increased cost for 10% lower damage for an Off Balance effect. The Magden does not receive the CP 10% damage bonus as that tree is Stam related. So big win for Stam, big nerf for Mag. Second, Stam gets a stacking bleed effect in their morph. Mag is retaining their linear 15% damage bonus for target range. In other words, the closer a Magden get to the target the WEAKER our Bird gets.

So now ZOS is asking the Warden community to decide between themselves who gets screwed. If we go with <12M then Magens who ARE decidedly NOT melee builds now have to reduce their damage to get the effect (which is useless to them anyway, besides once in a blue moon being able to get of a fully charged HA to get a ... wait for it ... a knockdown. And to top it off they took our ranged stun away. Yea.) No Magden will survive long standing up close and personal in PVP melee holding a HA attack. i.e. This effect is worthless.

In summary, if it is changed to <12m then the Magden get nothing, nothing but screwed.

• Bird nerfed with 36% increased cost.
• Bird damage reduced 10%.
• Must stand at near max range to receive their full 15% damage morph., but then receives NO Off Balance effect.
• To receive the Off Balance effect they need to move into Melee distance give UP 2/3 of their Bird's Morph effect. So ANOTHER 10% Nerf.

I mean this is just ridiculous to the point of fantasy. The WHOLE POINT of this was to IMPROVE the class with additional effects NOT to further nerf Magdens into the ground. Magdens are already WAY bottom of the barrel in PVP and PVE. PVP Stamden vs Magden is not even close.

36% cost increase. Damage reduced 10% at base. Does not receive the Off Balance CP passive bonus. (Assuming <12M) And then must surrender an additional 10% damage for their 15% damage morph AND must close to melee distance to even get the Off Balance effect. So a total of 20% damage nerf for a Magden to get the effect. Seriously ...